White Prototype Open-Bolt LMG

Рет қаралды 135,977

8 жыл бұрын

/ forgottenweapons
Along with his two semiauto rifle prototypes, when White went to England for rifle testing he took along a work-in-progress light machine gun. The weapon was trsted by British officials, but found wanting - largely because it was really not a weapon ready for testing. The "LMG" White built was actually semiautomatic only, although it fired from an open bolt. It used what appears to be an early iteration of the gas system which was much more refined in his selfloading rifle, and it included no provision for using a bipod or tripod (an essential element of a light machine gun).

Пікірлер: 159

@MatthewBerginGarage 8 жыл бұрын

Also the fact that the disassembling tool is a very important part of the rifle there is no way you would loose it! Great videos Ian keep them up!

@assteepee 8 жыл бұрын

Loving this channel. Your knowledge of function and history of these firearms is fantastic. Most of all I just love listening to you telling the storied histories of these firearms and their manufacturers.

@1fanger 8 жыл бұрын

English style stock. At first glance, I thought you had a shotgun with a box mag. Maybe he made it that way to make it attractive to the British.

@grizzlyblackpowder1960 Жыл бұрын

The kind of stock you can find more than a few examples of in the US?

@thelaughinghyenas7962 8 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. This set of three White prototypes has definitely been part of the weird and wonderful. I love those.

@Jesses001 8 жыл бұрын

Very nice gas system. I have to agree though. It looks like an early prototype rather then a light machine gun ready for testing.

@leemcnutt6165 5 жыл бұрын

They don't get much more forgotten than that

@Rook9696 8 жыл бұрын

you had me at "light machine gun with a bayonet"

@HeFilmsTheClouds69 8 жыл бұрын

Ian you've been killing it lately. Keep up the great work.

@Dannyn829 8 жыл бұрын

After what i would like to say that after 5 months of watching these videos although i had stumbled across you a while before i would be broke if i could afford to buy all of these guns by now hahaha Ian you sell these things man ! Thanks as always !!

@spacemanmoe5622 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the postings on all the JC white rifles.

@Cruisey 8 жыл бұрын

3:13 "So why don't we just use the B.A.R. instead?" "Yeah good idea"

@BadlanderOutsider 8 жыл бұрын

+Sam Doohan It's not terrible. The only real problem with the BAR is the weight and the magazine capacity.

@kjknight99 8 жыл бұрын

+BadlanderOutsider If I were an ally soldier during WW2 and I came across an FG42 or STG 44 I would drop my BAR and use what I found. The BAR wasn't that bad early war but by 44 and 45 it was very much obsolete.

@ukspartan2375 8 жыл бұрын

Bren gun was better as a light machine gun

@Cruisey 8 жыл бұрын

Sam Doohan BAR doesn't have to be good, it only has to be better than the jive featured in the video.

@JigJoss 8 жыл бұрын

+Knightindernacht What could have been the spiritual successor of the BAR? the SCAR-H?

@ductileiron98 8 жыл бұрын

Nice modern, angular, lines on this rifle. Beauty. Thanks..

@wendigo1619 4 жыл бұрын

I see this gun, i instantly look at my wall to make sure my wacky auto-shotgun is still there

@wendigo1619 4 жыл бұрын

@Graf von Lotzing looked kinda like this gun with the gas piston on the right side and has a bren gun style charging handle with the rear end looking off a canadian lee conversion, similar magasine though the shotgun has a flat base, i think my shotgun was a custom job or some kind of prototype that was supppsed to be a full auto 12gauge but ended up a goofy looking semi auto that weighs as much as a BAR

@StraightShot2977 Жыл бұрын

Man that locking block is just begging to be fouled by grit and gravel. That alone would make the gun untrustworthy to me.

@SavageShooter93 8 жыл бұрын

I have said this a million times but Forgotten Weapons is one of the best channels on you tube, the history of the pieces, the mechanical nuance, and of course Ian quite a manly beard and pony tail going on at the same time. If I were wearing a hat I would take it off to you sir!

@compwiz101 8 жыл бұрын

I get the feeling like the LMG was White's prototyping platform for his gas system. Perhaps it's where he built a lot of the proof-of-concept components to the design before they ended up in his gas operated rifle.

@ForgottenWeapons 8 жыл бұрын

+compwiz101 Yes, I agree.

@EIBBOR2654 8 жыл бұрын

Ian, that front swivel closest to the muzzle is a stacking swivel, not meant for a sling. It has a cutout in the middle so it can be stacked with 2 other rifles. As I was told, it is a hold over from the Civil War so the soldiers could stow or stack them in the camp like in a tripod form. That stacking swivel ended with the adoption of the M-14. Great video and am always checking them out when you post them. Good info on some I may never get to hear about or see.

@thatguybrody4819 Жыл бұрын

i've noticed he often calls them sling swivels.

@wankertosseroath 8 жыл бұрын

Ever thought about looking at some really cool unknown medieval weapons or doing more museum visits that have wacky howitzers or cannons? Only asking cause I really enjoyed that 50. BMG Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon video

@TroopperFoFo 8 жыл бұрын

Do you think you could ever do a video on the Ottoman Empires water cooled Winchester 1866.

@archibaldthearcher 8 жыл бұрын

+druisteen www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/04/26/water-cooled-rifle/

@Sheehy223 8 жыл бұрын

This needs to be in a video game.

@scipio10000 8 жыл бұрын

Funny how it looks like a Cei-Rigotti prototype with that gas-piston on the side ...

@jimkey920 8 жыл бұрын

One of the oddest. I suppose it is a concept , rather than being meant for production. Surprising that there is no mud cover on the rear of the receiver.

@Vidar_Odinson 8 жыл бұрын

That's a weird duck for sure!

@ozdavemcgee2079 6 жыл бұрын

This is the level Royalnonesuch will achive in his 60's lol

@Metalgearmadness 8 жыл бұрын

its kinda cool that these prototypes are still shootable

@anter176 8 жыл бұрын

the exposed gas tube has a charm to it

@tonyktx44 8 жыл бұрын

Another cool video Ian, many thanks. How about a review on a Australian SMLE full auto conversion? It would fit right in with this wacky rifle.

@ukspartan2375 8 жыл бұрын

hey is that even real a full auto lee enfield

@kevkfz5226 8 жыл бұрын

What an interesting gun, no idea that British had tested anything like this, at this time.

@VicariousReality7 8 жыл бұрын

God that looks heavy

@chadbarrett3545 8 жыл бұрын

It is a shame when a gun is missing parts.

@Whitpusmc 7 жыл бұрын

This would fail the mud test spectacularly!

@Spazz6768 8 жыл бұрын

If it's not actually fully automatic wouldn't it technically just be a battle rifle?

@anter176 8 жыл бұрын

Had he just made a toggle that made the sear stay down while you held the trigger then that thing would've been fully automatic.

@VicariousReality7 8 жыл бұрын

9:47 That is one horrible fuller

@KarlfMjolnir 7 жыл бұрын

Wonder how heavy it was, and how it might've been as an infantry rifle instead of an LMG.

@GwyndowsXP 7 жыл бұрын

I like both of White's rifles, especially the toggle lock version (I'm a sucker for those), but this thing is just.... horrible planning.

@threebog 8 жыл бұрын

if you blocked the trigger so it couldn't go as far back to reset the sear just pull it down would it not work full auto?

@hockeytownluv2012 3 жыл бұрын

A process called cooking off 😂

@The2010designer 8 жыл бұрын

If it fires from an open bolt, does it have a fixed firing pin?, or an inertia arrangement?

@mini_high 8 жыл бұрын

I wish you could shoot with these rare guns

@finalfantasy50 8 жыл бұрын

Did White do anymore development on the rifle to make it more like an LMG (full auto, bipod/tripod, move the gaspiston out of the way)?

@sheadjohn 8 жыл бұрын

so if it fires from open bolt and the trigger does not have a disconnect it looks like it would have been easy to make it fully automatic. does the trigger seer release the bolt before you squeeze it enough for it to reset?

@TheBuffaloSamurai 8 жыл бұрын

Did White have any sucessful designs besides his gas-system?

@ForgottenWeapons 8 жыл бұрын

+TheBuffaloSamurai None that I am aware of.

@mcqueenfanman 8 жыл бұрын

I guess Lewis designed something like this during or shortly after WWI.

@Tsniper2009 8 жыл бұрын

Does J.C. White have any relation to Rollin White?

@sthenzel 8 жыл бұрын

When you fully pull the trigger, it resets itself and the bolt is catched again. So far so good. But what if the trigger isn´t fully pulled? Then the sear stays down and the bolt isn´t held open, which should result in the rifle firing round after round. Bug or feature?

@mnicrashSoren 8 жыл бұрын

the two people did not recognize this from black ops call of duty so it must not be a real army man gun so they stomped their feet and hit dislike

@nodresiak 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for yet another very interesting video. I appreciate that this inventor was willing to challenge the orthodoxy of gun design but a few things about his designs just leave me scratching my head. Why did he put all of those holes in the trigger guard. I assume they were just to lighten the gun a bit but honestly how much weight do you save? Wouldn't a side mounted gas tube also make the gun a bit awkward to handle. I really do not like all the holes he has on the underside of his designs. What happens when a soldier goes prone and gets a stick in there.

@ToastyMozart 8 жыл бұрын

+nodresiak Looks like the trigger guard was just a bent length of off-the-shelf perforated flat steel. Not so much a functional decision as a way of simplifying the manufacturing and reducing cost.

@wastedangelematis 8 жыл бұрын

nice

@nutsandgum 8 жыл бұрын

Do you think a more developed version of this (tripod mount, relocated gas system, full auto etc..) could have outmatched the BAR as a squad LMG? It does look substantially smaller/lighter then the beast that is a BAR.

@stamfordly6463 8 жыл бұрын

+nutsandgum It looks like it has the same primary design flaw as the BAR - the magazine is in a stupid place. Lack of a barrel change ability makes it even more impractical. Lightness and being a bit smaller isn't going to overcome those fundamental problems. The Bren was heavier than the BAR but was still a superior section level weapon.

@hopetagulos Жыл бұрын

Poxa! Qual deve ser a arma que este cara não tem ou nunca teve?

@lowkeythethiccstergod6939 8 жыл бұрын

What do the white strips on each of his guns mean? This gun is 1, the toggle lock is 2 and the semi auto is 3.

@confuseatronica 8 жыл бұрын

+petpeeves117 Yeah I noticed that too: it's that wire-marking numbered tape that comes in a dispenser with little rolls of 1 2 3 4 etc, for labelling wiring. It looks like something an auction house would NOT do, so I'm assuming the seller/consignor/liquidator did it and the last 3 guns were all from the same guy.

@ReformedMean58 8 жыл бұрын

Prayers for Paris

@1fanger 8 жыл бұрын

+Jacob Mcdonald Amen!

@seanrea550 8 жыл бұрын

+Jacob Mcdonald may those that have died find peace, those that lived find comfort and those responsible be brought to justice.

@tonyktx44 8 жыл бұрын

+Jacob Mcdonald Amen brother, and curses for ISIS

@seanrea550 8 жыл бұрын

pray for all affected by war and violence. pray for Paris. prayer is appropriate in this case and for those in the position to help, they should help. For those who are not in the position to help this is the way they can stand in support of those that can. sometimes the hard part is knowing how to help.

@JigJoss 8 жыл бұрын

+ehy it's very unfortunate that i can't do nothing, but i won't lament too, in not in this position

@Lexrockstheblock 8 жыл бұрын

Did white die recently? You've shown us 3 one of a kind rifles from him that are going up this auction.

@ForgottenWeapons 8 жыл бұрын

+Riot Weekend He died a long time ago. I did videos on all three rifles because they are one-of-a-kind pieces, and I don't expect I will get another chance to examine them later.

@Sku11Leader 8 жыл бұрын

How much does it weigh?

@DOGMA1138 8 жыл бұрын

So there's a "White Collection" on sale at RIA?

@Hyperian 8 жыл бұрын

+DOGMA1138 yea, if you go to the auction site in the description you see all 3 white guns are in a crate. I wonder where they found these guns. maybe one of white's descendants decided to sell them.

@trevorslinkard31 4 жыл бұрын

Liked the look of it until I saw the lateral gas piston. That’s hideous

@PieterBreda 8 жыл бұрын

Weird that half-finished prototypes are send in for trials.

@_Just_Andy_ 8 жыл бұрын

+Pieter Batenburg Lack of money and time? Military contract surely change the money problem.

@justforfun4103 8 жыл бұрын

+Pieter Batenburg Because surely that doesn't happen in our modern times right? No contractor is going to show the US military half complete things and expect hundreds of millions of dollars with a "buy now, fix later" methodology. That NEVER happens. /s

@PieterBreda 8 жыл бұрын

Probably does

@geraldford8255 8 жыл бұрын

When this is called an LMG and the BAR is called an automatic rifle, makes no sense.

@asphaltmemories4597 8 жыл бұрын

+Federation of the World BAR stands for Browning Automatic Rifle, LMG is just a basic nomenclature for Light Machine gun.

@geraldford8255 8 жыл бұрын

Matthew Fauria I think it is strange that the BAR can shot fully automatic but is only called an automatic rifle and this gun in the video is a semi automatic rifle but it is called an light machine gun.

@geraldford8255 8 жыл бұрын

And I saying "an" in all the wrong places...

@Gloomshadow100 8 жыл бұрын

+Federation of the World the BAR was named actually BEFORE World War 1... a lot of people don't know this but the BAR existed way back then but was kept in secret and not issued, it was considered a "secret weapon" at that time.

@Gloomshadow100 8 жыл бұрын

+Federation of the World actually I take that back, now that I think about it the BAR may have come out eventually late in world war one... youd have to check

@Pprokop87 8 жыл бұрын

some nice ideas, but it is a semi-auto riffle, not LMG. if it would be presented as s-a riffle, something good could come out of it......

@Pprokop87 8 жыл бұрын

yup. history first, and hopefully only, semi-auto lmg. but the idea for semi auto riffle is not bad.

@hawks1ish 8 жыл бұрын

very Japanese inspired although they even put bayonets on mortars, heavy machine guns and some artillery pieces because having a blade on your weapon made a farmer who joined up as a private feel like an elite samurai

@jacquesblaque7728 8 жыл бұрын

Not gonna point out the difference between a cylinder and a piston, since they're so obvious, Ian. Just saying- pointing at a cylinder and calling it a piston is like the sound of fingernails on a blackboard. :')

@MrAvant123 2 жыл бұрын

Little bit less good than the BREN !

@DarkestVampire92 8 жыл бұрын

"I don´t see any reason why you couldn´t go ahead and shoot this." Oh, i think i know a reason.... Estimated auction price 15.000 - 25.000 dollars. Granted not as bad as the Colt 1909 you had earlier this week, but thats still the value of a new car you´re gradually decreasing with every shot.

@JigJoss 8 жыл бұрын

All White's rifles are too much complicated, i guess he never had any military/combat experience, because those weapons must be a horror to field strip and clean.

@JigJoss 8 жыл бұрын

Not even mentioning their bulkiness.. but i appreciate his work anyways