"We're gonna do THIS, but we need your help with funding so we can deliver! :D" 8 years later "Huh? I don't have to deliver anything, I'm morally in the right" Imagine trampling on the hype, hopes and funds of so many people; and then not even being able to apologize. Is this real life?

Hes just hoping that all the people supported him happen to have doormat written on their forehead

In the kind of world where you can distribute poison in syringes, proclaim it to be potentially harmful, say that you are not liable for any damages and then watch as millions and billions take it on their own free accord. To be short: Our nightmare realm, hell. Welcome.

The Mighty Jingles said something the other day (CW: animals if you want to look up the source) that I think applies to Mark Jacobs; "I can't think of any curse I could wish upon you that would be worse than you continuing to be the person you are."

He's a lawyer. What do you expect?

Sounds like you're pretty clear on him, not struggling

@@chaoswraith The struggle probably comes from the fact that he was part of an amazing game back in 2001.

@@eternalvigilance5697 Exactly this.

Lol that's why I didnt back it. I wanted to drop a few $100 on it but just couldn't get past him. There was something about him I didn't trust. I figured I'd wait until he has some proof the game was making progress which never came.

Why have you struggled then? It seems pretty obvious he's a scumbag.

Yeah that was a big mistake, and the engine look like from early 2000s

@@jheigl1980 yeah it looks really rough

I think part of that is due to the era of games he was known for. Back then making your own engine was pretty common. Meanwhile these days there are few good reasons to make your own engine.

It's likle they forget that entire studios exist that are entirely dedicated to just making/maintaining/upgradring engines

Game engines are not what they were 20 years ago. 5 millions MAY get you a solid game engine but how do you then make a game? And yes, you will continue working on that engine for years just to keep it relevant.

I’m leaving a comment to help worth the algorithm

whoever can say such a thing is honestly such a wej, like c'mon now

No known streamer would play this without getting paid, I don't even think they want to get paid to play it tbh

@@xtaziz8032 Eh, I dunno. I watch a couple streamers that either play indie games or intentionally seek out badly reviewed ones to see if they're actually bad or just misunderstood. I really think they could've found a couple streamers to give it a shot - heck, maybe if they've got enough games to develop two they could've dropped a couple hundred bucks on some streamers for exposure. Anything would've been better than nothing, right? Especially since it HAS to have cost them six figures to make the thing. Saving three figures on advertisement just to watch it go down the toilet seems like a massive waste.

@@AndragonLea That's exactly the problem, I guess you didn't know about Camelot Unchained before this video. I've been a backer since the kickstarter and tried to believe Mark's whole story. I loved his other two mmos and have played them for years (still play them from time to time in private servers). Thing is Mark doesn't want to spend a single dime in marketing, you can see everywhere in their forums that they will start marketing the game when it's done and already "fixed", which any product manager would tell you is stupid to not start advertising your product even before it's finished (you don't need to final product to create hype). Mark has a very old fashioned idea of how games should be marketed or even done, you were able to see that on their old web with a really BAD video, showing clunky animations, non-gameplay and just random screenshots, same thing that you can see on FS:R trailer with the corny jokes, dumb gameplay and trying to advertise features that have no true meaning... It's a shame because the idea behind the MMO was great, but they don't want to do any marketing which would bring more people preordering. Projects spend more than half their budget just in advertising when City State Entertainment will spend zero! This plus all the delays the game has suffered is only bringing pain to all of us that believed in this project... Mark promised refunds for Camelot Unchained and there are people waiting for over 2 years for them, when we were supposed to get BIG NEWS about the game we backed, we got the announcement of FS:R.... a real shame! Sorry for the HUGE comment!

@@xtaziz8032 No worries, you're entitled to a little consideration given your investment in the project. I get the idea behind not advertising too early if they have the funds to spare to make a finished product and THEN advertise what they actually have instead of what they think they'll have in two more years. Anthem really fell down some stairs doing just that. They created a ton of hype for a game that didn't exist and when they ran out of time and realized they couldn't deliver, the hype train was already at full speed and no amount of braking would stop it short of the release cliff. The problem is that their second game was actually RELEASED without any hype. That just makes zero sense to me. This is the worst of both worlds. You spent all the money you needed to make the game but had zero hype so nobody who might've been interested even knew it existed. I get not wanting to waste money, but from my perspective NOT advertising is wasting money. Both on the development of a game that may never see the playerbase it otherwise might have gathered and the money they might've made and put towards salaries and other projects that remains securely locked in unsuspecting wallets everywhere.

He can say that, but obviously you have to verify that claim. Considering the history I personally wouldn't believe for a second that no hardware, software, hiring, billed hours, etc. were not paid for using money meant for CU rather than Ragnarok.

The intention may have been good - knock something up quickly to get some revenue ... but yea, looks bad.

I think it’s pretty obvious that he considers the backer money to be his money now.

@@gmonkman I figure they thought they could make a game on the side that drummed up easy money but failed miserably and his attitude made sure of it

Looks like Jacobs has been attending the Caspian Academy of Game Funding

Absolutely. Happy that I didn't kickstart the game; I was always suspicious of MMOs on Kickstarter, as they usually overpromised. Still hope the backers get the game they backed, though!

In hindsight I should have seen this coming. Mark Jacobs has a track record full of failures. A bunch of fail expansions, Sold Mythic to EA and the failure that was Warhammer online. He had an already proven formula for a game. It's so unfortunate that we will never experience DAoC 2.

Hindsight is always 20-20. Sorry you got bitten and one wonders what was really going on on the devs' side, and why.

@@xrystofersoule5119 Warhammer online was actually a decent game when it hit the 2 year point, it was just released way to early and could never get players back after 2 years. Squigherder, best class ever.

That name rings bells, reaver from Prydwen?

@@samclark7714 Indeed. Who were you friend?

I spent $5125 on this game, $5000 initially on a limited Island pledge, Luckily I asked for a refund before they stopped refunding people. I had to do it because of very different life situation and I needed the money. Good thing for me, even though there were fee's for the refund (Paypal fee's) The USD had gone up like 30% by that time, so I earned quite a bit of money getting my refund even though those fee's. If I only pledged ~$100 or something, I probably wouldn't have asked for that refund.

@@rainlsd I completely understand why you spent that much money on the kickstarter. Legend Mark Jacobs himself was heading development on a unique (and ballsy MMO) that promised so many cool things. I’m not sure anyone was thinking the whole project would turn south. I wasn’t, at least. The eight classes per realm thing was one of the biggest selling points for me, back when they revealed them all in like 2015 or whatever it was. By that time I had money, but I was a lot more pragmatic about spending it. Glad I was. Glad you got your money back and then some.

@@blakegrimes3557 I did it because I'm an old Dark age of camelot player, and since that game NOTHING have even gotten close to it's depth, PVE + PVP combination, it's "Imbalance" (not Zombiemode game ie. need skills and brain to win) No handholding yet not too complicated. And 3 realm war with shitloads of classes and races who are ALL completely different to one another. Thus making it far more personal and fun to play. Yet even if you played a healer, if you were great at the class you could beat down assassins and what not. New MMO's everyone's the same, if there are classes they suffer from constant "balancing" and making the games hollow and boring. So yeah, I believed in him, I wanted to believe in him after years of dissapointment and suffering through Braindead 1.1.2, 1.1.2, 1.1.2, 3!! Type of gamestyle. It seems like the game is still going forward though, quite recent updates have come out. I'm crossing my fingers hard, but I couldn't keep my pledge for the game at their side, due to life-changing situation. It was a choice heavy at my heart even if I felt the game was not ever going to get out. It went as far as I kind of have left my favourite type of games (MMORPG's) completely. Have barely played any in years, tried some but none have felt good enough to get too involved into. Everyone's the same, everything's the same, nothing is different, all has to be balanced or the crybabies crying because they can't play the games so the devs kneel and fuck it all up. Imbalance is good, and if it's done right, there will always be ways to beat the beefy dude even in 1on1. Also there were no level restrictions on gear, But gear got worn out very quick if using very high level stuff on low level character, irreparable. The choices were there for you though, Loved it, love it and want it back. Camelot unchained gave me hope.

They were paid to work on vaporware for years, amazing.

This is the same with graphic novelists. In one hand, you have an already-established series people are drooling to get the next volume of. but instead they want to start a whole new series. I just don't get it.

Warhammer Online's issue was that it was a 2-realm system and the WOW fanbois weren't leaving. EA basically pulled the plug when it didn't grab a huge market share.

@@davidblackman1586 It was dead before release because it had PVE of the lowest caliber I've ever seen. The public quest areas and map design around the pve was just pure trash. It woulda been fine with just pvp and 2 factions. Wow fanboys didnt come over because if you didn't give the pvp a try and saw the horrid pve you'd go back to the biggest wow expansion of all time too.

@@paradopx8618 you're crazy. The influence system was awesome for both pve and pvp. The mobs were all very unique. The questing system was dynamic and linear. PVE was not the issue at all. It was quite excellent. The end game PVP was just a stand off over cities because of the 2 factions and the zones weren't designed for roam groups.

@@davidblackman1586 I've replayed it my dude, go play return of reckoning, the pve is horrificly bad and copy paste. The influence and achievement system was a head of its time sure, everything PVE wise besides the 2 dungeons at the end was so badly made. The maps were unintuitive and confusing because upto 8/10s of it was pve, even having to run through pve areas to get to the pvp, it was terribly designed. If there wasn't pve on the map the game would of had a better chance at succeeding because the fights would of been more balanced and more directed. I used to roam with a warband that went against the guild ruin and could easily go 24-36 vs 100-150+ and consistently win, I even had the addons to prove the numbers. The pvp was fine even with faction v faction, to this day it was one of the few pvp mmos where you could fight out numbered by double and still win. The pve was so bad it turned 50% at least of the population away because of how bland and half assed it was.

@@paradopx8618 meh... everyone on a mount just zerging from a camp to keep wasn't much of a roam. Yes the PVE messed up the flow because they were PVE zones that PVP objectives inside of them. Which was the opposite of RVR zones in DAOC. WAR was a PVE game that had fun FvF battlegrounds. And when max level people were in BGs, the game was effectively dead.

Yes bring DAoC back PAAALEEAASSEE

That was what I was hoping they could have done that just better graphics get some good voice actors make it flow a little better - The would have made shit load of money if they pulled that off and gotten enough players where they could start adding more dungeons and lore..........So sad they didn't make that obvious decision

Got to agree. For some reason the fighting style and realm vs realm is so much better than popular games.

DAOC has been my crux as it absolutely blew every other mmo out of the water for pvp. Not just pvp but PVE with PVP chances happening as well. It was so well done, a catacombs where three realms have access to and you could be fighting a high level mob just to get into a hellish battle with olayers as well… its just too good.

@@RazSkull673 yea Im always on edge when I'm in the catacomb.

Easier said than done, mate. Let's also not forget that full PvP games are incredibly niche in today's market. Just look at New World' focus on pvp then switching to more PvE in late development. People can make a pvp game if they want, but nowntheyre competing with every other pvp and pve/pvp game that just do it better than everyone else. Look at the history of these full PvP games and you see they dont do very well in the long run.

@@wdf70 DAOC wasn't a "full PvP" game. Yeah PvP was a huge part of the game and what most people consider the "end game" but there was a TON of PvE content. Hell, off the top of my head almost all of the expansions were mostly PvE focused. I knew ALOT of people who never PvP'd. With all 3 realms being so distinctly different and 45 total classes, you could just PvE and still never get through all the content. If he were to make a DAOC2, much like DAOC1 it would be received so much better than New World is now.

DAoC had PvE server. It's PvE had a lovely balance of serving the RvR, effort in PvE rewarded in drops that might well prove the edge in RvR. Especially after ToA launched but even in Darkness Falls/Shrouded Isles you were rewarded with some unique weapons that enhanced your RvR experience (e.g. the bladeturn proc sword off Legion, or the heal proc chests from Apocalypse). Such a lovely balance, even after ToA switched it up.

@@wdf70 The whole gaming market is full of remasters and remakes, why would it be 'easier said than done'? Just remake the game in a modern engine. Nothing out of the ordinary there. There's enough people that played DAoC that would come back, just look at how many people backed the sequel. The game had a lot of PvE content to supplement. Any additions or fixes to shore up weaknesses could have been done in patches post-launch using the funds generated from the guaranteed cash cow.

@@porcu12345 He sold the rights to the original game. He couldn't copy it legally.

I'll take blinded nostalgia for 300, alex

@@biffboof1007 If you played, you know.

It’s true I played it too. Probably the best online game ever made after StarCraft

Ultima Online in the 90s as a multiplayer experience far surpasses it. If you were there from the start you got something unique in gaming never before seen. By the 2000s MMOs were plenty. UO, EQ and M59 were the first real MMOs, if you were there to witness it, you were getting to play a genre that didn't exist before. Not to mention UO did things never replicated in any popular MMO since. But yea you know what they say, your first MMO is the one you love the most so...

@@bojcio ohhh man absolutely! UO during release and T2A was INSANE! The next MMO after UO was DAOC that I loved for PvP in the sense of PvP servers of Mordred and Andred, as well as RvR centered for Tristan.

CRPG games seem to have a pretty good track record.

Honestly if someone wants to make an "MMO style" experience but they are indie, making an MMO adjacent game is probably the best bet. Something like Rust, Conan Exiles, etc, it may not be the same, but having up to several dozen players on a large world with players hosting servers and dealing with that infrastructure for you seems like a decent mid way point. Personally I'd love to see some sort of synthesis between games like Conan Exiles and an MMO.

details?

Maybe she did a poor job? I know a couple of guys at Citystate and they both have no complaints at all. They have nothing but good stuff to say about Jacobs. Both have some experience in the industry prior, so they know the industry.

@@lordbetty4806 nah, I can vouch for the quality of her work and her work ethic. She just had a bad experience at City State and I'll leave it at that.

@@punchemindaface you vouching for her does nothing really, so I'll leave it at that.

@@lordbetty4806 does the exact same amount as you guessing that my friend was a bad worker. Does the exact same amount as your claiming to know two people at citystate that had nothing but good things about Jacobs.

Matt Firor was the real mind behind DAOC.

I knew I flushed money foen the toilet when I saw artwork for the characters made by Mark’s daughter. It was so shit I knew right then and there this project was going nowhere and we were all being hosed so he can do whatever he does with our hard earned cash.

Should have known better with this dev.

@@criptin4075 When most of us backed it, the situation and narrative was not like it is now

Do you feel that Ashes of Creation could fill that void/itch that is missing for you?

I think the "Who Asked For This?" is regarding the Ragnarok game.

Why would you blame EA for it? they basically wrote them a blank check.Many EA employees criticized the company for doing it, one ex employee said they pointed out the game was crap but EA mgmt refused to listen to them. EA employees apparently had to work with mythic to help get WAR to finish line.

I backed but knew it was a big gamble. I loved DAOC though, but realised early on the team was tiny, even ignoring the funding it didn’t make sense. I didn’t put anything else in though, unlike many friends. One of the things people forget is that life moves on, I just wouldn’t have time to play it these days anyway - which makes backing projects like this, star citizen etc even more silly in hindsight.

@@Raums I don't get the "I don't have time for an mmo or whatever genre game" line

@@PigJarHut People with families and jobs. They backed the game when they had the time, which was years ago.

@Maniacal very well said. My same sentiments to the letter

@@DrFrogglePhD I assume they are saying they don't have time for this type of game though rather than no games at all? My friends say the same thing all the time, I don't have time for an mmo, but will play other games 2-3 hours a day 5 days a week

Arguably for any time.

If they would have just created a good game man oh man they would have made millions with WOW numbers falling like rain and everyone stuck inside due to Covid - Man the money they would have made............

Same guy “you arent owed anything”

The moment you start talking about intentions you're already lost...

Do you play on private servers? Or is the main still live?

I played for so long. It was incredible in its time. Waking up at 4am on a Thursday for a call to arms in response to a relic raid.

@@isaacandrade3783 Broadsword Online Games still host Daoc and UA.

And people still think they can rush one out with 0 direction or passion (New World) need I say more

I don't think so. Look at how many mmos came out in the late 90s and throughout 00s. Most of them were not made by behemots like Blizzard, Rockstar or Ubisoft. Small companies could make decent mmos. Nowadays even big developers with massive human and financial resources fail to the task. It's not even that they can't make a good modern mmo, no one has any expectations for an innovative and fresh mmo from today's devs, but they can't even deliver a good mmo by 00s standards. Most of these new mmos are fundamentally flawed and riddled with bugs. There's something wrong with dev culture today and I am not exactly sure what.

@@XxWolfxWaRioRxX the fact that new world is as decent as it is tho is impressive

@@Reinhard_von_Lohengramm it’s about trying to monetize the game, money ruined this genre

@@jonathansoko5368 It's also filled with signs the devs have/had no idea what they were doing because there's fundamental issues which any dev worth a shit should know is something that should NEVER be done.

I think it's because the game is not advertised by CSE. Which is strange. It's as if CSE doesn't want people to know that the game exists and they don't want any KZfaqr talk about it or anyone buying it. If that is what's really happening - then why bother putting your game on Steam's early access? Why not keep it in closed beta or alpha or whatever? Really bizarre behavior...

That’s the thing too. There is DEMAND, but no studio who can realistically meet that demand, is willing. Take the financial risk. Someday, as technology develops, and software engineering is more streamlined, a studio will make another great MMO again. But I’m not holding my breath. Ashes of creation seems it might be the one, but I also thought that about CU. I predict by 2030 we’ll see something.

Jesus Christ!

@@flatlinejimbob No I think he got his refund three days later.

:(

@Cthulhu Bbb but.... but if wont support any rugpull bulllshit how will I get fooled by marketing and get scammed? And then how will I complain on reddit about how awful Capitalism is while actively contributing to the issue?

I think it’s fair to blame the scammers in any scam, and would be absolutely silly to dismiss their role, like a drug dealer dealing meth and heroin. Blame to go around,

If you want another piece of evidence, look at the vaxx situation. People would even gamble their lives, despite the info being wildly out there.

we simply don't have the tech to support that yet

@@KiraTV1 what about frog of war

With the amount of legendaries you pulled out from that lootbox business model, I dread to wonder how much trash pulls you also paid for, lol.

I Love DOS2, Pillars, and Kingdom Come :D

@@fatcat1250 Thankfully only the last 2 listed there never delivered. All up I was pretty lucky with what I backed.

I'm in a new house that has 0 furniture.

@@KiraTV1 Makes sense, congrats on the new place man

always has. now with crowdfunding, all us little people can take part in the trials and tribulations of game development foibles.

In fairness back in the day when this Kickstarter was launched Crowd Funding felt ‘new’ and people were largely naive to development costs. Nowadays people are a lot wiser and have a raft of examples of undelivered projects to reference. I’ll admit to being one of the idiots that fell for the pipe dream - thankfully it was at the lowest level, so not much lost. I wonder what the current thing we’ll look back and be shocked at is; “Imagine paying money for loot boxes” or “Imagine paying for cosmetic ‘outfits’ in a game”.

I don't play it, but Albion seems to be doing alright.

Omg I forgot the name of that game was thinking of it but didn't remember the name. Game was so damn fun and simple but NCSoft can ruin the best of games

I was just saying this earlier today lol

Carnage Heart. Most awesome game and it's super obscure. Original PlayStation. It's about making OKE overkill engines. Mechs basically. But the fun was programming their computer. I know it doesn't sound fun but it was. There was a visual code represented by blocks. You could watch them fight and learn from your mistakes and make better programs that made your machines much better. There was a whole campaign to fight and tech research. And you'd get new tech and have to make new programs to control it. Did I mention mistakes? Your first few programs are just going to cause your OKE to run the wrong way get stuck in a corner and die.

Still exists as Return of Reckoning. EU is its most active time zone but I found that as NA I was still getting scenario pops well into the night. Regularly there will be 300 v 300 battles.