*P a g a n D e t e c t e d*

@@snorungar70 Nej, Östersund!

@@monkeyboysam5551 I was going to try to top your comment and I can't. Now I'm frustrated. Good job.

@@rhysmalavioson4260 silence, *Pagan*

@@monkeyboysam5551 is that an insult?

Yes, all warriors sent to Valhalla (and co.) will die during Ragnarok anyway. That's what they're there for, fatalism is a very strong theme. It's unclear what death means because as Mr. Jackson says it was not systematic. It's more likely the the baseline belief was reincarnation of the soul or parts of it in some way, as it is for all Indoeuropean religions. Hel possibly being some other belief expanded into a default afterlife type of thing, maybe from Christian influence. Valhalla and several other locations (possibly dozens) being special places you go to, to await Ragnarok (before dying fully or continuing to reincarnate). Ragnarok isn't the ultimate end, as with everything else it's cyclical (also why lacking reincarnation doesn't fit the theme). Other kinds of death include somehow remaining in Midgard, likely as a spirit. Probably they don't think of death and persons in such mechanical, logical and individualist terms. So it's hard to know how they reasoned and what they believed. What a person's death and soul actually meant.

Yeah it’s honestly pretty interesting - it really seems like this misconception has come about via neo-pagans who, coming from a Christian worldview, equate Norse afterlives with Christian ones and so think that going to Valhalla is the same as going into heaven. Since we don’t live in a martial society anymore, then some sort of broadening the rules is allowed so that modern lifestyles can be compatible with getting into that version of heaven despite it having no basis in the source material.

What makes the distinction even foggier is this modern Protestant interpretation of Hell (but then Protestants have been getting everything wrong for the last 500 years). Christianity very much has the concept of Hades/Sheol, which is roughly the equivalent of Hel and other underworlds, only without an apparent deity to rule over it. "Hell", the lake of fire, will not exist until Judgment Day, according to Christian eschatology.

Also in the Bible, the sheol is nothing more than the grave itself. Basically the place where we are buried.

@@wuwei87 I know this comment is 2 years old, but could you explain what you mean by Protestants getting everything wrong for the last 500 years? As someone who grew up Protestant but left the faith some time ago, I always thought Protestants got the most things right of the various Christian flavors compared to the extra-Biblical rituals and ancestor veneration of the Catholic church.

@@TheRealNeonwarrior Scripture itself teaches against sola scriptura; for one, it stresses the need for the authority of the Church. There are also numerous passages that are paraphrases of and direct references to oral Jewish stories that were never codified in the Bible. The Bible as we know it didn't exist for almost 400 years after Christ's crucifixion, but Christians worshipped during that time, mostly by relying on icons, priestly teachings, and the books that did exist then (which were read and interpreted by priests seeing as how most people were illiterate). The traditions of the Church are necessary for Christians, otherwise they are missing crucial elements of their faith. The Protestant Reformation also, because of the influence of secular materialism, flattened Christian cosmology which had been respected and recognized for over 1500 years, so other crucial things went missing: angelic hierarchies & the communion of saints. Protestants also don't understand that intercessory prayer and iconography are not "idol worship" and were never considered such. Again, the Christian cosmos is remarkably multifaceted and multi-tiered, but secularism has all but killed that view. Fundamentalism is also Protestant and it's literally a materialistic way of interpreting the Bible, which was written before science existed and was never meant to describe the world in scientific terms.

@@wuwei87 Thank you. In my Methodist church, they taught of a concept called "prima scriptura," that the scriptures are held above all else, but can be safely interpreted through other means such as reason and the study of history or church teachings. This didn't seem to different to me than the Catholic treatment of the Bible. Would you say modern Catholicism is similar to ancient pre-bible Christianity? What about medieval Catholicism?

kniter I had heard that Folksvangr is the place of honor in the afterlife for faithful spouses and for women who have died especially honorably, and those who die in childbirth. But I think it likely this is a modern idea.

I've also heard the Fólkvangr might just be a synonym for Valholl.

@@Tina06019 I have never heard that before today; is it a common misconception? What sources have you encountered it in? kniter, from what I understand, the only Old Norse source on Folkvangr is the poem Grímnismál, and that poem tells us only that Freyja takes dead warriors there. Sadly, anything else you hear about it is either speculation or wholesale modern fabrication.

I don't know Dr Crawford's views on author and non-academic folklorist Daniel McCoy, but McCoy seems to be very careful with his work (even citing Dr Crawford a few times!), so here's a link for you. norse-mythology.org/folkvang/

In one of the earlier videos Jackson Crawford mentioned that a feast was prepared in Hel, when Baldr died, so at least Hel was a place where you could feast. Perhaps the early version of Hel wasn't as negative as Snorri describes it. (I don't remember of the idea of Hel seems to have changed during the viking age or if Snorri was colored by his christian beliefs)

@@anotherelvis The Dr. Crawford made a whole video after the afterlife in Norse myth, but the short version is that it's just very unclear. The word "hel" sometimes seems to refer to "death" or "the grave" generally with no mythological undertones, sometimes it seems to refer to the afterlife in general possibly including valhalla, sometimes it refers to the literal grave where the dead seem to just hang out, sometimes the dead can travel through the grave between the realm of hel and the ordinary human world... With so many seemingly incompatible interpretation, it's hard to say if they represent different stages of belief, different contemporaneous traditions, if some of the references are strictly euphemistic etc., and how much of it is just Snorri being Snorri.

This is the video in question (Part 1 is some general afterlife beliefs; part 2 in the series covers Valhǫll), if anyone needs a link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLOEeKmrxp-5Zac.html

Yeah, I don't find it useful to treat Valhalla as Heaven and Hell as Hel. If you don't actually enjoy battle why would you enjoy fighting every day? That's not a paradise.

@AnonymousPsych Also Saxo's description of Hel is nowhere near so bleak and grim as Snorri''s is I have neither the encyclopaedic knowledge nor a good enough memory to tell you exactly where to find this other than in Saxo Grammaticus History of the Danes Books I to IX, but *if* my memory isnt failing me atm he describes a land of eternal springtime for Hel Other assumptions and musings to consider (not facts) Each God and Goddess seems to have a hall (Odin even has a second one, maybe more), we _could_ assume they bear similar names to the names presented in the Poetic Edda, but must also assume the names may have been different and of course that many have also been forgotten/lost Either way Valhall cannot be said to be the *only* heaven (if we must use that word at all), we should surely assume that there is a hall/place for at the very least each deity, and that some Deities may have more than one. Something else i shall place alongside my other non-facts, simply because i cannot remember where i read this - Isnt Hel where everyone goes, and then some are "collected" (for want of a better word) by their chosen Deity *if* their deity feels this person has served them well? By which i mean Hel is the default for all who die, but heroic deeds and things relating to a specific deitys "spheres of influence" (like for example a new technique for increasing the yield of crops may impress Thor and Sif, or writing a great many awesome skaldic poems may impress Bragi etc) Always more questions than answers And with some of us interested in the history and scholarly facts, and some of us interested in the faith/spirituality side of things, and some of course interested in both, its easy to see why so many interpretations and opinions abound, and with no potential new archaeological find on the horizon, we still got the same few answers

You mean "mythmyth busting? Myths about myths?

There is, and it's available for preorder as well: www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Havamal-Jackson-Crawford/dp/1624668429/

He would, he was favored by Odin to kill many warriors, and Odin used him to create more war.

Tony curtis threw him a sword though, so it's fine.

Håkon the Good didn't directly die in battle but bled out on an island after being fatally struck by an arrow yet he's shown entering valhalla in Hákonarmál

Did Jackson stutter?

He was slained, so yes.

Actually it is a legitimate defence for Sikhs to carry a dagger "to defend the faith"

@@inregionecaecorum _"it is a legitimate defence for Sikhs to carry a dagger "_ The same holds true for Scotsmen wearing their national dress. The 'Sgian-dubh' is often worn in the sock.

Ah, so it’s just the Eternal Anglo that needs a licence to own a pair of plastic scissors these days.

He was probably just on his way to west ham 😂😂

​@@inregionecaecorum It is considered offensive to refer to the kirpan as a dagger. It is a sword, even if it may be short.

Out of curiosity I managed to find the dimensions on Barnes and Noble's website for the hardcover: 6.50(w) x 1.50(h) x 9.50(d) -> 208 pages. Softcover: 6.00(w) x 1.25(h) x 9.00(d) -> 216 pages. (I hope you don't mind my input btw!)

where is the evidence that Hel is split into peaceful and torturous realms? sounds like a christian desire for there to be some kind of 'justice' in the afterlife based on your deeds of this life. As far as I'm aware there is no concept of that norse belief.

@@christopherrowley7506 I can't speak for where it's being pulled from in this instance, but usually the "split" idea leads back to the mention of Nástrǫnd in Vǫluspa 37-38, which Snorri later cites in Gylfaginning-- interestingly I don't see Hel being ever specifically mentioned as the location, but he follows up with a Hvergelmir mention, the door's facing North, and Nástrǫnd means something like "corpse shore," and dead people are mentioned as being there. That said, as Dr. Crawford mentions, Snorri was trying to create something like a cohesive canon from what was likely a number of varied beliefs, and the Vǫluspa lines only mention "oathbreakers, murderers, and those who seduce other's lovers" as being there, so it's not really a great analogy even with what we get in the medieval sources-- Dr. Crawford's series on the afterlife ( kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLOEeKmrxp-5Zac.html ) and Hel ( kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bNiPnLOCppjaiqs.html ) cover a lot of the ambiguities and variations, in case those help anyone out.

@@stellanathaniel3198 good points

Dr. Crawford actually has a video on his Norse book recommendations at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htGceaiH28XIop8.html , and additional resources in his "Starting Old Norse Studies" video, which includes a list of other good academic authors he recommends as well (I suspect they'll all be on JSTOR, but most have an academia.edu presence as well): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ndB1g5afvNi4nqs.html

@@amandav5402 I have literally never once seen anything mention that Odin _only_ takes those of regal blood. Maybe stuff where it's mentioned that regal blooded people are his favourites, but nothing that mentions he *only* takes regal blooded people.

From what I've read it depends. I'd you die at sea you to to njords hall, sickness or old age you go to niflheim (what he's calling hell, in actuality Hel is the queen of niflheim it isnt what its called) dying in battle leads to Valhalla

@@joelseph No, Hel is both a goddess and a realm, similar to how Hades is both a god and a realm in Greek mythology.

That place is Gimle, it's mentioned in Völuspá.

Thrown Sword Pommel I didn’t realize he already had a video about it and mentioned it. So my question was already answered. Hahaha.

I'd like to know this, as well.

No, since they would not have been a part of their culture.

Are you as curious as to whether any old fool could mosey on in to the afterlife of, say, a Sub-Saharan African folk religion, for example?

@@Floral_Green Yes in a general sense of the interface between religions, mythology & culture and how it influences those beliefs and customs. It's a fascinating field of comparative study. I'm currently trying to read Ibn Rustah in the original but my Arabic is pretty poor! I'm not greatly familiar with Sub-Saharan mythology - do you mean specifically the West African sub-Saharan or more generically anything from Zanj to the Niger-Congo? Thanks for asking.

While there's no confirmation of that, that's almost undoubtedly the case.

I remember seeing a grave find in repton englad they dound a viking soldier who was killed in battle and aftwr some research on his skeleton they determined he was in his fifties and he had a very bad tooth that was rotten and he had a very bad back. So in a way that grave find kinda shows this particular guy who was getting old with a bad back died in battle at repton. So it’s possible that some older men wanted valhalla and he chose to die in battle. But im just giving a theory so who knows

You mean gatherings of LARPers that treat ethnocentric European folk religions as some sort of deracinated comic book universe? I think you’d be better off not taking anything that such types would say seriously.

Bro don’t play that game 😂 like seriously as a fellow heathen that game is a joke I thought it’s fun but after the first play through you realize that was the most boring bs task game ever

Hey I know it's two years later but I've just started watching Dr Crawford's videos! Anyway, thought you might be interested in what I understand to be the etymology of Warhol. Andy Warhol's father, Ondrej Warhola, was of the Lemko ethnic group from the Slovakian-Polish border. The Lemko language is very closely related to Ukrainian and indeed the surname Warhola is also found among non-Lemko Ukrainians. It apprently means "quarrel" or "trouble."

That sounds plausible to me. Much more likely than ‘the only way for a woman to pass to the afterlife is to LARP as a man instead of attempting to create new life’. Based.

that was such a fun movie, it used to be on KZfaq but they took it down **le sigh**

There's also Harbardsljod, where Thor is said to have army of thralls. So it is not impossible that people went to the hall of the god they followed.

Mate, they didn’t even exist. Shield-maidens are a meme.

No, generally speaking spawn of aesir and more serious einherji go to Valhalla . Freya, and here vanir go to folkvanger, the other hall of the slain where Freya rules

@@tiagosnook2659 Yeah I figured it was some fluff I read a long time ago

@@northernfist7209 Pretty sure it's based off the Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok which is not a TV show where he did die in the exact same way and, in the Saga, was said to go to Valholl.

I'm asking about the saga, not the television show.

@@northernfist7209 and Gods may not exist, where is your point dude? if we talk about myths you can't just say, "but that is fictional"

This is just my take, but there does at least seem to be some variant stories of men getting into Valholl: Ragnar as you mention, but also the family that jumps off a cliff in Gautreks saga, and Sinfjǫtli in Saga of the Vǫlsungs, who gets poisoned but gets a free boat ride to Valhǫll from Óðinn himself. It's definitely not cohesive, but the particular issue with the childbirth entry is that even in the variant cases, there's still no women ever mentioned as going, and there's just absolutely nothing in the medieval sources or even really any sourcing as to when the childbirth idea starts to come up in myth books (I think I found something back in the 1700s, but it still was just the statement with no clue as to where or when the belief'd emerged). So just based on what we have, I'd say women in general going to Valhǫll is still *possible,* just highly unlikely since we have no surviving texts that indicate that, but the "giving birth gets you in" idea just really doesn't have *anything* behind it to indicate it was at any point a pre-Christian Norse belief.

If I remember the saga I do believe they tossed a sword in with Ragnar because it was his last request so he could go to Valhalla but I could be mistaken

No, Hel is not an afterlife of punishment. Not the Christian hell

Hell is actually the Anglo Saxon word for Hel that got turned into the Christian Hell ideology

Well, the issue with that conversation is that it never happened in the medieval sources-- as far as I can tell the quote's only found in "Children of Odin" by Padraic Colum, which is a children's compilation of myths from 1920. While it pulls from the Eddas and sagas, it's a retelling much like Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology, not a translation, and so the option for artistic licence and changing things is there. (Which is fine, but not the same as the actual source texts.) AFAIK the only attested line Óðinn ever says to Víðarr is Lokasenna 10, regarding pouring Loki a drink-- I believe Dr. Crawford's video on Víðarr covers all his attestations, if that's helpful at all: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lcCPltWB15mYkaM.html

He's actually not referring to it as a 'hell' like the Christian Hell, or in 'opposition' to Valholl-- it's just another Norse afterlife destination/belief known as Hel (as is the name of the goddess who oversees it, according to the Prose Edda); I believe both names come from a root meaning 'hidden'. Dr. Crawford does have a good introductory video on the afterlife in Norse myth which covers most of the basic concepts here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLOEeKmrxp-5Zac.html as well as an older one specifically on Hel at this link: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bNiPnLOCppjaiqs.html

@@stellanathaniel3198 thanks, I'll check them out

I have been looking for an answer to this question, too.

Oliver Neukum those who die by sea in any way, go to the sea goddess ran and her husband aegir. This is because ran is a scavenger, and all souls that enter her realm get trapped within her net. Tis not an urban legend, but an old fact

Belinda Cowell hope that helps

Mike M from Albuquerque NM

dude where is everyone getting the childbirth thing from?

you have to die in battle

You were normally not executed but declared an outlaw and anyone could kill you (typically relatives of those you had wronged). So you might still die by weapon and wielding weapons. On the other hand your enemies were not required to show any such consideration. They could burn down the house in the night for instance.