In this day & age of modern high speed chassis systems, it's nice to see an R700 in a clean Police stock with rear pouch. Just looks like it means business.

Good video, interesting. I preffer the 1 shot groups, sub MOA every time. 😁

3shot groups are more for thin barrel hunting rifles that heat up and string shots. The only thing a hunter needs to know is if that same 3 shot group can be repeated Except with Varminting. Really those should all be from a cold bore. 5 shot groups are for heavier barrels up to Varmint profiles and depending on the caliber. For instance a 223 varmint barrel from savage is the same diameter as a 308 barrel externally but internally they are obviously different which will affect the strain and barrel flex and vibration and groups with Caveats. You may get 8-10 shots with a 223 before the barrel heats up and strings shots whereas you may only get 5 with a 308. Velocity, barrel, pressure, heat, a lot to consider. This whole mess is because people do not take into account the intended purpose, barrel itself, when it gets hot, and how much that effects the accuracy as well as barrel rigidity, thickness, load, external temperature, shooter, etc. There is no one size fits all when it comes to the number of shots in a group unless it's based on the intended purpose of the rifle, load and the rifles capabilities. Now, with that being said, there should be a set of rules to shooting groups but there is no written rules that is universally accepted. But there should be. One of these rules can include more shots in a group but they would have to be done with barrel cooling time. For instance a 9 shot group with a pencil barrel hunting rifle should be done with only cold bore shots. Why? Because it's a hunting barrel and a hunter shoots off the cold bore 99.9% of the time. They don't usually get a second shot nor do they need to take one in most cases. Cold bore shots are not done by a lot of people but in competition load development for groups they should count. A good barrel such as a Shilen or Kreiger shoot's fine from a cold bore and if you have to foul the bore to get accuracy then you have done something wrong in cleaning or something else wrong. Don't get me wrong. A 10-20 shot (really what many competitors I know shoot) will tell you more about where you are as far as the rifle, the load, and the shooter but it must be in context. What the rifle will do vs the shooter or the load in what temperature is the biggest misconception in what causes groups to change from string to string, day to day, or minute to minute among newer shooters. There is a lot more to precision and accuracy than what can be summed up in a short summary as a response to a video but I hope people who are wanting to do better, shoot better, and learn more really take the time to read. read a lot. See what competitors do. Learn about what makes a rifle inaccurate. Learn more about what makes a shooter more accurate, and finally put as much time behind a trigger as they can. Trigger time matters.

Definitely agree with what you’re getting at here. I’ve always gone along with what Frank from snipershide says, ‘3 rounds tests the rifle, 5 rounds tests the shooter’. The way I’ve done it is work up a load with 5 shot groups and once you’re confident test it with 10 shots

Very true indeed, after 40 odd rounds, concentration needs consideration. Well made with a balanced review. Congratulations on a well made and very logical review. Love it when someone changes the paradigm with pure science and an easy to understand explanation ... vvvvv impressive

Probably already discussed in the comments. The group size is, in a sense, the standard deviation of your sample. Because the sample size (i.e. number of shots) affects it as ve have just seen, a good solution when you can't add more samples is to multiply by N/(N-1), where N is the sample size. Say you get 4 cm out of 3 shots, then you should expect a true group diameter of: 4 cm * 3/(3-1) = 6 cm. As you have guessed, for larger values of N, this correction factor approaches 1 and has diminishing effect. For anyone interested, search for the center limit theorem in the context of statistics, it does not explain this exactly, but from there you should have a good starting point to understand it all. And I know, they are not always intuitive ;)

Thank you for your 175gr Sierra load of 43.5grs of Varget. I have been shooting 168gr noslers over 42.5 grs of 4064 which shot great but your load is amazing in my rem 5r. I tried your 5 shot groups with both and the 175 were half the size. Great video. Now I will have to build up my 175 supply.

Someone send this to nutnfancy. I’ve never seen that guy shoot more than a three shot group

Love your videos and information, one of the best gun channels on youtube.

Great and informative video. I've really been enjoying your channel and this one has earned you another subscriber. For me as a hunter in Virginia, I don't have many shots beyond 100 yards, so testing with 9-shot groups is a little overkill for me, but I am wanting to get into long range shooting, so I will definitely keep this in mind when I really get going... Though I think I'll just do 10-shot groups to keep things even for my OCD mind, lol.

You deserve Way more Subs for this Quality work. Dont let youtube snuff you out to make that be true! Love the vids

Absolut positive meaning of a nice and straight guy! Wish I could ever test with You, and shoot my rigs on that range. 308, 6,5 Lapua,7 RM, and 338 Loads I worked up with extreme precision, and I am never lazy on brass preparation. Let these good videos coming, Keep up the good work! Wish you all the best from Hungary guys

a shoulder thing that goes up lol

Love your videos! I hope you dont give up creating. Would really enjoy seeing a hand loading video maybe? Thanks!

These vids are both educational and strangely soothing...

I've always used the 3, 3shot groups to zero then adjust from there when actual target shooting is going on. Weather and temp will force front and rear sight changes.

Superbly done, I enjoy your videos and attention to detail. Impressive shooting.

Brit Army, when i served used to do 4 x 5 rnd groups. followed by a 5 rnd confirmation grp

Excellent, I truly enjoy these videos. Keep it up!

I appreciate the perspective but I have a differing thought. Shooting nine shots in a group increases shooter fatigue and makes imprecise shooting more likely. It also heats up the barrel significantly by the 9th shot so it opens up the group. I agree that a three shot group is a bit silly as any gun could chance on a decent group. A 5 shot group seems to be the preferable group size.

Excellent explanation and presentation as always with the 9 hole shooting.

Dude, that's the range I go to every weekend! I even see Okie in the background there. :-) Wish I had access to the range in your newer videos. I also gotta get off my ass to make the drive out to ASC for 600 yds. I haven't been in 2 years...If I ever see you out there I'll say hi....

Stop ignoring fliers. Fliers matter.

Ahhhh the sweet sound and smell of just about any round cracking off down range. Thanks for a very informative video Henry, so eloquently spoken to! U r da man! 🤠

I do 3 shot groups when initial load testing. Once I find a good combination I fine tune that charge. Then I do 5 shot groups.

Outstanding. Enjoy watching a skilful shooter behind a great rifle.

I like the way you manipulate the bolt, it’s very interesting.

I love this video. We all know There are several KZfaq channels who use 3 shot groups and then factor out a "flyer" and the take the best of their 2-3 shot groups and then brag to everyone how great their rifle is and how great they are. They make me sick.

The military (when I was in) uses the three-shot group to zero a rifle and 6-9 to confirm, then you take the rifle to a real range to stretch its legs. As far as accuracy and precision goes, its a matter of one's skill and the quality of the rifle.

for my target/ long range rifles I do 3 shot groups and occasionally 5 shot groups. HERES THE KICKER, I always keep the targets and then by overlaying them I can see the average and can also see what may affect it by what I wrote on the target. maybe it was overcast, or drizzle, or extreme sunlight etc etc. . .

I see you load and fire at that speed no matter what you are shooting and you get very good results, so it isn't just with the .303 sniper. Good video and results. Thanks

I enjoyed watching this video it was well explained what you were doing and why you did it. That being said there are two things that I would have liked to have seen added to this video or done in another video. It would be nice to have seen you shoot through a chronograph to demonstrate the consistency of your handloads. Secondly I would like to see you do that same accuracy demonstration with Remington green and white box or Winchester white box 308 ammo with the use of a chronograph and see how that rifle performs for the average guy who will be shooting that kind of ammo. Again well done thank you.

Those groupings are very impressive, nice job. What do you do to keep that gun shooting so well, any specific barrel break in or regular cleaning routine?

What do you think is the best 308win caliber weapon? What is your opinion about Remington700 xcr compact tactical 308win(20 inch barrel)? Remington 700 5r best or xcr compact tactical?thank you

Just subscribed. Found you through The Gun Collective.

As a research scientist, I approve of your point. The larger the "n" the more accurate the mean (real) MOA. An N of 3 is as low as you can get, and is only really used when it is very costly or difficult to obtain more independent measures.

Usually my whole group is "fliers"

You need to do more reviews and videos. You are the best channel period.

thank you for mentioning shooter fatigue.

This video is still one of the most informative about the science of shooting than others. No matter the rifle, accurate shooting within MOA takes practice and experience to accomplish. Most of the major rifle makers produce fine rifles, but it still comes down to experience, practice And in this case precise hand loaded cartridges too. The Remington 700 5R looks nice a nice rifle. Remington is supposed to be known for Their accuracy. Nicely done.

not sure if this is the right video to ask this on but, I am looking at getting a 6.5 bolt action, I want to reload them and see that the brass comes in Small and Large rifle primer options. Any reason to favor one over the other? great videos thank you!

That’s a dedication right there Time money and effort Thanks

Damnit, all this no nonsense, no ramble ramble ramble, no fluff bs vids are the damn shit. Thank you Mr. Chan.

So excited to be getting my 700 5r gen 2 6.5 cm in soon. Hopefully it’ll shoot about as good as yours, but then again I’ll need to practice my own shooting abilities a lot more for that lol

Just started watching your videos. Good stuff. I had no idea you are here in Houston until this video

I can't find where to buy this rifle with the scope rail and the extended mag, i love the look of this rifle.

Excellent work!

Interesting & informative. Thanks 🙏

The more rounds you put into your paper groups, the more confident you will be of the one-shot cold barrel group that actually matters. Blood trailing a crippled deer in the snow is a hell of a time to learn why we don't cherry pick our range data. Great video as always Henry.

I'm just started on my first bolt gun build. It's on a Comp stock from Blackhawk! Could only dream of shooting as well as you (looking for a Winchester Model 70 short action)

I use three shot groups. I’ve also have sense to know why I wasn’t on target when the firearm fired. I also don’t include a group coming from a cold, cleaned bbl. I also can fine tune a new powder in a ten shot ladder test shooting at one poa. Ten different calibers in rifle and pistol. Carry on

in the late eighties the first week the pss was available i picked one up. it too had 5r and the metal was dark green. it shot similar groups like yours but about.2 larger. a bit later i bought a used ssg69. it shot identical groups as yours with a crusty belgian match round. it liked that better than anything. it has a nickel 2.75-6 with a number 5 retical. it’s dot on the wire is 2.5 minutes and it is easy with a black bull with a 4 inch white center. don’t think i can do quite as well as i did 30 years ago.

Thanks for the great info!!!!!

Where did the clip you spliced in with the khyber pass construction come from? I gotta watch that train wreck.

My new favorite channel.

“Ten bullets through one hole” Joyce Hornady

May I ask where to buy the rifle? I cant find the same finish

just found your channel and i like what your doing, i never could tell what scope that was

shots tend to spread when the barrel heats up. I walk and stalk in the Karoo in South Africa. Once I have my load I check it with 3-shot groups before each hunt. Its important that the first shot from a cold barrel is spot-on and maybe a second shot. I never shoot a petite springbuck 5 times.

Quick question... I 'acquired' a brick (1000) CCI BR2 primers... how do these primers differ from regular primers? I understand they're Bench rest primers for target shooting... I haven't been able to find any load data using these primers. Do they effect SAMMI specks? Hotter, ect.... I reload for my .308 and don't necessarily want to damage my rifle or risk injury with a over pressure... help?

Verry well Don video good info

Keep up the good work!

Wow, not just a video of shooting... but video about shooting. Good shit!

Hey!!!! I shoot at Carters too! I used to work there back in highschool!

Grew up using three shot groups, later in life the Marine Corps again taught me to use three shot groups and I still use them now. Never had a problem with them always easy to adjust with and can walk into the bulls eye rather quickly. Not to mention if re zeroing is required they make for fast work.

How do you determine how much human error was induced? I don't call fliers so the differences in this test could have easily been shooter fatigue. As long as I have single digit ES and SD on my load development a 3 shot group will tell me what I need to know. Plus this high quality match grade ammo and bullets are expensive as hell. I reload and good components, powders bullets and primers are expensive, barrels are too! Plus it's hard to keep concentration for that many groups, to do this test probably took all day at the range. Really appreciate what you guys do

Will you try a 783 Remington bolt action 223 on your 500yrd range?

What kind of scope are you running on the rifle in the video?

What type of lower magazine plate and magazine on the rifle?

How long do you wait between shots? Do you let the barrel cool?

Great video

You should have your own television show! Everything from voice to explaining thing are perfect! I would suggest to do more simple guns so starters can relate!!! A++++++++++

Would you contribute 2 fliers per five shot groups to flinching and just needing to practice?

I think I can agree on what you've said in the video, however wouldn't it also depend on the barrel profile and how fast your shooting between shots? Your 3 shot groups might also be so much smaller because the barrel hasn't exchanged nearly as much heat as the 5 or 9 shots.

I am curious why you decided to dial for the last one so you were hitting where you were aiming, when I am shooting groups I intentionally dial so the group is about an inch from my point of aim so I am not punching out my point of aim. Once you punch out the thing you were aiming at you are now just kinda guessing where your point of aim was which will introduce more error into the system. Aim small miss small.

Got me a Gen2 5r 260 rem topped with Vortex rzr gen 2... heavy but its awesome.

How much time do you spend allowing the barrel to cool down? I find that even with one 5 shot group, a hunting contour steel barrel shooting 6.5 Cr becomes quite hot. If you're shooting 39 shots of an even larger load, you must be impacting accuracy with barrel heat.

Glad I watched this video, a lot of good information. I always did 5 shot groups with my hunting rifles and 10 shot groups with my AR's. Never had any issues with rounds stringing from 5 or 10 shots to get groups, I guess I don't understand what some of the other commentors are fussing about, lol.

Got the fn spr 24” mod70 action and man what a rifle…1st win style action as I been rem fan and gotta say I love that claw extractor…the 4 3rd mags I got with it feel so smooth and spring doesn’t feel like it’d have enough pressure but feeds awsome..that plum wore out feelin…1:12 4 groove 1”@lug tapered to .980”@muzzle…168gmm are baby bear soup and I drilled couple for more expansion…try one if you get a chance….matt in ky

this channel and the lucky gunner are the best. empirical and academic.

TGC Sent me. Excellent video!

Curious, what kind of scope were you using ?

this must have taken forever how many cool down cycles great vid more real world than most chanels

Can you review the SR-25 ECC,FN MK20 SSR,FN Ballista sniper rifle.

do you allow the barrel to cool between shots ?

Stick to 5 shot group averages and shoot 4 targets to give you a realistic average of the rifle load performance while expending only 20 shots. 9 shot average add too much human error into the equation and bias the rifle to ammunition expected performance.

Sorry for commenting on this old video. What scope is that on your AK around the 6:20 mark?

Great. Also, everything counts always. Fliers are part of what your rifle does with you behind it. Partial consideration for called shots though.

what stock model # is that on your rifle?? love it.

what stock where you using for the rifle

Have you done any work on the 700?

What kind of scope is it?

I have a Remington 700 R5 24" in 308 love the Rifle

in a typical benchrest match, there are two stages. You shoot 10 rounds into 10 bullseye targets and count overall score, then you shoot a 5 groups of 5- shot and counting average MOA, these two stages can show how accurate and precise you and your rifle&load are.

I don't know if this was asked before, but what type of scope is that?

I get awful lazy when shooting 22lr, I often do 50 round groups so I don't have to do much. It does make analysis more difficult, you are running enough rounds to make the rifle/ammo shoot worse than what it is by sheer probability. But, when you do get great groups with that many rounds, you know you are doing well and consistent and can truly say "this is what this combination does".

Please do a video on your optic. Very interested.

Nice work! Well produced.

lol @ "like when you're working up a load ..." as you show a guy measuring powder with a plastic cup. (fill it 'til it overflows, shake it off, cap it with a bullet)

Link for that mag conversion please