100% true I’m 52 years old. I’m self employed, debt free, own two houses, and have a GED. I’m not against education. I read constantly to educate myself on things that matter. When I met my wife she was getting her masters in criminal justice and social work. $80k student loan debt. She stays at home now and doesn’t use her degree. Don’t go in to debt just to make your parents proud.

I am so happy with my engineering degree, great pay, benefits, and work-life balance. I slaved for 4 years of undergraduate with countless late nights and mental breakdowns, but I'm so happy that I pushed through and finished. If you have the math skills and love solving problems, be an engineer!

I went to a private university over a public one for a few different reasons, but main reason was because of the false promise that it would be "impressive" on my resume and get me to my ideal job sooner. Nope. Not true. It all worked out, I'm out of debt now, happy with my life, etc. But I PREACH to all the young people I meet to go to the CHEAPEST university possible. Thankfully my younger sisters were able to learn from me and are graduating debt free. I'm so proud of them.

All facts. I got into MIT among other schools, but would have had to take out loans. But i got a full ride from University of Pittsburgh. My dad guided me into going there and i ended school with no debt. Best gift for wealth building that i could ever have asked for.

My son floundered in his early 20's starting and stopping college a few times with impractical majors. He then started driving for Uber and didn't mind it much, but as he matured he was getting antsy. Luckily he took advantage of an opportunity Uber provided to pay for his college tuition at ASU. It was all online, and the criteria is that he had to have been working for Uber for a certain amount of time and have a certain amount of rides under his belt, and maintain a minimum amount of rides to stay eligible. He got real busy and just graduated with honors in Information Technology. Now he's on the job hunt. I'm so proud of him! 💖

I went to the U of South Carolina and got my BSN (nursing) in 2001. Had some loans, but paid off quick. Just finished 20 years in the Army and now working in a civilian hospital. It is a dang good feeling to be debt free with a career that pays very well. Now I have retirement income and full time civilian income.

3:20 is a fun moment. A video talking about how education from ivy League schools isn't worth it, but then sites studies "even completed by Harvard economics" that confirm their point.

I’m in school for illustration. I pay nothing because of the GI bill, so even if my starting income isn’t great I don’t have to worry about debt.

I would tweak this and say not all education you pay for is good. I'm yet to learn something I regretted; I have definitely paid for education that I regretted paying for.

This is good baseline advice. School is too expensive now not to make mature decisions.

Sent both my kids to State schools, they got great degrees in high demand. Both make lots of money and are constantly being sought out by recruiters.

I had minimal student loans from undergrad then got a masters & Ph.D. for “free” from Stanford. They pay you in Ph.D. programs (tuition + stipend), so it doesn’t cost you extra. It has been amazing for my career having the Stanford Ph.D. Customers particularly in Asia absolutely take me more seriously because of the name of the school. The truth is somewhere in between what Dave said & what I said. The name of the school DOES help get you in the door, but it doesn’t mean u need it to have a good career.

Community college to get an AAS in network admin and security. used that to get into a coding bootcamp (for free upfront!) did my two years for them. Now, I'm a junior software engineer. Got picked up by last gig job for a permanent position. make 90k already.

The Texas state schools are outrageous still I think, but luckily the 2 year community college is so affordable. It won't take my kids as far as they need to go, but it's a good start.

100% agree with this one. Go to a state school and keep your rent in check

Started at a community college, finished at a public, in-state university. My student loans are going to be paid off before the end of 2023. 🤙

Did anyone catch Dave say “the 4 of my kids”? 😂 the trades are where it’s at unless you want to be a teacher, Doctor, PA, engineer, CEO/COO. I’m sure there’s a few others I missed.

This is true for even going to the state school. I went to Tennessee State University to earn my Doctor of Physical Therapy degree. I knew it cost me a lot, especially having to move there, but I told myself well I have never met a PT who has gone bankrupt. I used societal acceptance to justify it. In reality, going to physical therapy school out of state does not make financial sense. The only reason I did was I was accepted by that 1 school. I was already 29 years old, and I didn't want to wait another year. I borrowed $204,000 to be able to make $70,000 to $80,000 a year. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I would've even applied or had PT as a potential career path. I checked the out of state tuition and fees of that school 3 years after a graduated. Those kids are going to graduate with close to or more than $300,000 in debt.

Yes. WHAT do you want with the degree? WHAT is the cost? WHAT will it earn you? Education does not = smart. Community college can be just as valuable as a 4 year school. Many, many classes at a community and trade college *use* the same textbooks as 4 year colleges. Many professors teach English 101 at no name trade school at 9 am. at 3 pm, they are teaching the same class, same materials at local big name famous school.

I love life long learning and now there are ways to do that without formal school per say. For starters save money and start at community college, that’s two years for cheap. And then online things like coursera and a bunch of others have affordable certificates you can learn a ton in.

And this is why i'm going to a community college because all i want is an education. I don't care about what it's called or where it is.

I find it interesting that they have to talk about people being able to accept that their kids could go to a state university or college and get a good education, like anything other than a private school is seen as unworthy. Here in flyover country, the state colleges and universities ARE the good schools. Most people in Missouri, for example, would excited about their child getting a scholarship from the University of Missouri.

I've been singing this song for years. Unfortunately, people do not realize that higher education is big business at the larger universities. When you have college presidents making $500k - $1 million a year, and professors making $200k - 400k per year, they will tell any lie, quote any statistic, sign you up for crippling debt, just to maintain their status quo. Before I retired, I would often attend an annual conference in which the attendees were about one-half academia and one-half practitioners. It didn't take long to figure out who was what. As Andy Griffith would say, "That boy's smart as a whip, but doesn't have the good sense to get out of the rain."

What people miss in these conversations is that education is important to the upkeep of our society regardless of the financial burden or roi. We need humanity professionals just as much as we need stem professionals. We are fighting eachother and belittling the choices of our peers while the elites are laughing at us AND to the bank

Need to spread this to all the Asian parents :)

An accredited university means an institution meets high standards of quality & effectiveness. State schools reach this and the graduates are just as capable as name brand schools.

Mom sacrificed so much for her masters and PhD… At least she didn’t get into debt… But all her savings were gone at the end. She has a hard time facing reality the degree brought her very little economic prosperity compared to expectation. The only real “wealth” that it brought her was family wealth, in which it facilitated my visit to Nashville that brought me close to the man who became my husband and father of my children, her grandchildren. I know this makes her very happy, but she was quite sure she’d be making at least 6mo urea a year with her diplomas and that bust really hurts her feelings… 😓

This is all facts……value of education is much more important than prestige of education.

If a go getter wants to get into certain companies, they mostly get grads from Ivy leagues or even a certain Ivy. Some business's know accounting degrees vary and more kids pass CPA exam from certain ones, but nothing is 100% You should research grad rates, how many get internships etc.

I was wondering why lots of young people get into these huge student loans and this episode answered it. I got my 4-year degree from a state university, worked in the field full-time while getting post professional masters then PhD from state universities that offered scholarships. Graduated without student loans.

I did my undergrad at a school that was recently rated in US News as one of the best values for the price. What I paid for full time tuition is now the cost of a single credit hour, at least for a state resident. Today, higher education is only cost-effective if you can do the really difficult coursework.

Your degree doesn’t have to be in the specific job that you end up in to be worth it. It’s rare to spend your entire career in exactly the same field or even in the same general area your degree is in.

Good topic! Thank you for the statistics; work as a therepist with welfare to work clients, and I can't say how many times their school/gainful employment plan is the desire to go to a Fufu colleges. Have to say, I was in $84,000 depth, state college and MA at a small private college. Every year, I filled out an extensive application for state loan forgiveness program, got forgiveness 5 times and I have to say, took me 12 years, but I got it paid. I drive around in my beautiful paid for 2013 Honda account that I truly love cause it's paid off, have no depth, only my mortgage. Piece of mind is better than anything I can ask for and my husband feels smart too. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH DAVE, YOU ARE TRULY A THERAPIST! My financial grown up mindset has given me freedom! 🎉🎉🎉🎉😊

Networking is more important than the prestige of the school. Sure some Ivy leagues, you might have opportunities to network with high level, big money people, but it's likely not worth it and those people tend to have more closed circles.

'Lazy river that you can float down'. LOL

My hospital pays social workers $80K/year; there are many RNs who fill that role because they want 9 to 5, they can earn as much as $120K/year with their MSNs.

Same here man went to university never was able to get a job luckily things somewhat worked out for me

"Hey baby, I am a student loans paid-offinarie" -- a comic I have always loved We went to smaller schools, and got my 4 year degree, and my husband's grad degree with no debt

The upper-tier schools are for connections, not education.

A lot of young people seem to have the idea that a university is an amusement park that you go play in for 4+ years. They want to enjoy "The College Experience" more than an education for a career. The schools have leaned into marketing this, and people keep buying what they're selling. But that sure doesn't stop them from bombarding me with donation requests. My education was valuable to me and I use it every day in my work. But I resent that a multi-million dollar institution tries to prey on sentimentality to extract more cash out of me. I already paid y'all once. We're done.

I loved it when Dave said state school, i went SJSU which is rated No 1 on ROI, on how much you pay to goto school and how much you get paid in the nation. Mostly the number is skewed by Software Engineer Salary in the Bay Area but glad i chose that school. Go Spartans!!

Eh. State schools can be overpriced too. It cost me less to go to a private college in my area and live on campus than most of our public colleges tuition only would have cost me once my scholarships were all counted. The private school gave me so much scholarship money, and the state schools offered so little that when it was all said and done, the private school was the cheaper one.

It doesn't help so many companies insist you get a degree, regardless of what the degree is

I don’t always agree with Dave, but I’m with him on this one.

I have a MSW and went to an inexpensive school. I don’t have loans. Not all SWs make low money. I know Social Workers who make six figures who work in hospitals.

Roll tide

Also, there are professions out there that keep inflating the entry-level degree. Physical Therapy now requires an entry-level clinical doctorate, when it used to be an entry-level bachelor's degree. This empowered companies to lowball the PT salary. Companies refuse new grads with a doctor in PT degree because they lack experience, while PTs with years of experience are denied higher pay because they don't have a doctoral degree.

Arizona state university is a hope I have

I got my undergraduate degree in cybersecurity and haven’t been able to land a job, while me working as an aircraft mechanic have been offered two jobs in the last 2 months at 48 an hour and 65 an hour.

😮😮My 9th grade education brother made twice what I made with my Accountant degree. I did fine, but he did awesome in construction.

I got my master's in behavior analysis. To get certified as a behavior analyst, you need to take an exam after accruing supervision hours. My coworkers that cheaped out and went to schools that were around 20k have experienced difficulty passing the exam ( some are going on their 8th+ try) while I and others that went to a school known to have the best professors in the field, paid 50k, passed and got certified on the 1st try. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

As a community college employee, I can tell you that a lot of classes and degrees that colleges offer are full of fluff. I encourage my students to study something that ties into their strengths, enhances their skills, and is relevant. And don't buy into the "I've gotta send my child to XYZ college because it's more esteemed" nonsense. Once they graduate and start looking for a job, no one cares where they attended. Look at colleges from the eyes of a consumer--they are brands just like Aldi and Whole Foods. Send your child where it makes the most sense.

Left handed puppetry sounds like a good option compared to some of the degrees out there now.

I went to middle Tn state for aviation. Four year degree was required to be an airline pilot when I went through. Current times, people just need to get all the pilot rating to get on with an airline which would save them thousands

Andy Bernard went to Cornell and he was regional manager.

The Citadel. State school in which you’re education goes well beyond the classroom. From my experience Consulting is a profession that either requires extensive experience in a field or a master’s degree in a related field.

I am about to complete my MBA through Western Governors U without a penny! My employer is paying the $9-10k total (including my whiteboard and calculator)!

For law and finance/MBA, it absolutely DOES matter where you go to school. There is a world of difference between a Stanford MBA or law degree and a university of Tennessee MBA or law degree. That doesn’t mean UT is bad, just that on average a Stanford degree will result in a lot more income right out of school.

The key here is to let the individual follow their own path - too many times a person’s future is determined by someone else. Respectfully - it is easy to justify the expense of bigger named schools for many people. Notwithstanding the statistics your are referencing, in my experience “who” you know is infinitely more valuable than what you know.

Too many American professions seem to demand a 4-year degree BEFORE doing the profession-specific education. That needs to change.

This rant should focus on kids who go to college just to party, and girls who go to college only to get their MRS degree. They are driving the prices up for everyone. I know a girl whose dad paid for her to get a PhD, then she never worked and just got married and started having her kids. I think there should be a tax on kids who don't use their degree. If you spend 160k on college you need to earn 160k in income within 5 years or else you pay a 25% tax for reckless demand. That money is collected by the school and its sole purpose is to reduce costs for everyone else.

How about this, a limit on student loans, it doesn't matter if you are going to a state school or Yale, you are only allowed to take out loans of, let's say $10,000 per year. There are Pell Grants, Scholarships of all sorts and other means to cover the rest. You end up in debt of $40,000 at the end of 4 years. It could be higher for advanced degrees.

1:23 The last non-fiction book I read was a couple months ago. I think it was called “Financial Peace”. Maybe you’ve heard of it?

The vast majority of college credit courses are a complete waste of time and money. Most courses can be completed with an A-grade simply by memorizing a series of Q&A with tools like Quizlet -- no more difficult then a written drivers test. Most written communication in colleges do not teach or enforce logical fallacies. Students are taught to copy and repeat rather than to think and question. It is of little wonder that college grads today are less able and less competent than an average high school graduate in the 1960's.

Go Vols!!! 😂

I'M ON BOARD WITH THE LAZY RIVER!!! TKAE MY MONEY!!!🤣🤣🤣

Two thumbs up for a trade school degree. Never disappoints.

Its good to do research in your career because you might just need a 2 year degree and call it goods. I work at a news station as a production assistant and I really enjoy working in this field but my job is very part time and its not a lot of room to grow or get full time hours. Jobs I have seen in this field, most of the jobs will either say college degree preferred or an associate degree which that's all I'm going to get.

Dave should also acknowledge that you realistically cannot go be a medial doctor or dentist without debt for the vast majority. But it’s usually worth it if you try and do it for the least amount of debt possible.

Yeah my friend makes 6 figures driving Uber and another friend is licensed with a masters in psychology and makes 46k

Thank goodness for the PSLF (Public Service Loan Forgiveness). I really feel for people with 6 figures student loans. College Education just isn’t worth it in the USA unless it’s Medical or Education. Everything else is a gamble.

Lots of companies do look at what school you went to.

I got a four year Bible college degree years ago. The good thing is I didn’t borrow money to get it. However, did I get any kind of position in a church or Christian ministry? Never did. And almost every job I have ever had never required a four year degree. The moral of the story is choose your education wisely.

Stephen F. Austin has a lazy river, and I’ve heard their recruiters tout it at college fairs as a “perk.”

The “lazy river” comment at the end is so ironic. 🤯

The only reason to go to a famous university is if it can be used for networking. I wonder how the data looks across disciplines because I'd imagine being a lawyer from Harvard would be more beneficial in that regard than most other fields.

Private is always better than state run. However, if you can't afford private, there is no reason to go into debt for it, especially if the debt is not bankruptable and impossible later to get forgiveness for.

How about a Bachelor's and Master's degrees in Creative Writing????? I've seen it. Took the kid for all his parents would pay.

I trade it rush, for the Ramsey

If a 6 year old is mature enough to understand the life-long consequences of puberty blockers and gender reassignment surgery, then an 18 year old is mature enough to understand the consequences of a student loan. Compound interest is taught in middle school and anyone can run google searches on the expected wages careers in their chosen major will bring.

The only elite school difference I can think of is if someone in the legal profession wants to go big law or clerk under prestigious judges and/or become federal judges. The elite names do help a lot if that’s your path but it’s not incredibly common.

Omg. They say it doesn't matter what school you go to then proceed to say in the very next sentence they refer to a study by Harvard University. Lol

1:41 😳😳😳 Who’s the other kid 👀👀👀

How many people check to see where a new doctor they are going to see graduated from? Some maybe for specialists but not many. No more than those who check to see where their kids teacher went to school ( of course some places they just need a HS diploma now, sad) or their plumber.

High-school dropout here. Never even got my GED. In my mid 40's I own 3 companies. One a real estate holdings company and two businesses that support multiple families. Over $400k annual net income. Multi million net worth. Never a penny of student debt....

Every man should read outwitting the devil / mediations by marcus aurelius and how to win friends and influence people . Those should be mandatory regardless of education level

Would this be the same argument for private elementary or high schools?

Law enforcement jobs pay 50-100k with a GED or Highschool diploma, plumbers make 100k easily, welders something!! UPS drivers 150k

Having a degree, I would say that the main reason to get a degree is because it opens doors for you that you wouldn't have had otherwise. You still have to work hard, and you will still have to be ambitious and work your way up. You can have an education and still have hard times. If you don't know how to manage money and you get yourself in bad situations your life can still fall apart.

When it comes to ivy league, you’re just wrong. My girlfriend went to Princeton and shes showered with high paying job offers all the time. You’re reading the study you’re quoting wrong. It does matter what you studied, but a biz degree from ivy crushes a state school biz degree. That dave has cornell graduates working for him says nothing, its simply not the norm, its whats called an outlier.

Funny I spent 4 years and 10s of thousands of dollars working toward a degree that now takes up one line on my 8 page cv.

I agree in most cases that the name of the university doesn't matter, especially for Americans. I'm originally from South Carolina, and for your typical student, a state school is sufficient. Now, at present I teach grades 11-12 (Economics, Comparative Gov) in Malaysia, and a good chunk of my students are from China. Most plan to study for university in a western country such as Australia, Canada, UK, and the United States. For them, the name of the school is important when they go back to China. Competition for jobs in China is cut throat, and many employers there don't respect degrees from schools they haven't heard of. Of course, the other option for my students is to try to obtain a work visa in the country they decide to study in after graduation- many desire this option since they don't want to go back & live under authoritarian rule. For other students, for better or worse, China is their home, they desire to go back, and they will need a degree from a school with a fancy enough name to help them get a job. I think this is one of the few exceptions- but the name does matter if you want to get into the very upper echelons of society, such as working the Supreme Court, etc.

1:41 He said all 4 of his kids. I thought he only had 3

I have a master's degree in social work making over $94k. However, I have been in the field for 25 years.

you go to a famous school for connections, not education

Army Reserves are the way to go if you can’t afford to cash flow college.

There are cheap and good subscription based colleges that let you take unlimited online self-paced classes for one low price. I'm talking less than 4 grand for 6 months

How do I pay off my $250k tuba degree?

Education and training are not the same thing. Education is about learning stuff, and training is about learning to do stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with studying for its own sake, as long as you understand what you're doing and can reasonably afford it. Actually, one of the reasons we've fallen so far as a country is due to highly intelligent, highly trained people with little or no education, and therefore little or no understanding or respect for the importance of fundamental American values.

Several companies only recruit from Ivy League schools or primarily recruit. You aren’t gonna sit on the Supreme Court if you went to Ohio state law school.