Hey there, ex-D&SNG fireman/brakeman here. It's an interesting time we are in no doubt. I was working the summer of the 416 fire and I still remember vividly thinking how from that moment on nothing would be the same. I do think conversions to oil-burning are a trend that we will see more and more, and like you listed, there are certainly a lot of reasons to doing so. But at the end of the day it is still a steam locomotive, and I'd rather see a running steam locomotive than no locomotive at all (or even a diesel for that matter), so if a conversion is necessary to keep them running , then by all means, do what you need to do. And looking back at other historical examples, conversions weren't unheard of. The UP experimented with converting a Big Boy (#4005) to oil back in the day but ended up going back to coal. And I've even seen examples of Shays built as oil-burners that were later converted to burn wood just because it worked at a logging mill and that was more feasible and logistical. So now-a-days we see the same thing with surviving railroads, they have to adapt and make choices to prolong the life of the railroad and locomotives. I guarantee if the Rio Grande itself were still around and had never sold off what is now the D&S and C&TS and they had not dieselized the lines themselves, they would have probably converted to oil as it is just the logical next step with the ease of operations and the future coal production being in question. I had experience firing both coal and oil on the D&S, and I have to admit that there is something of a charm or romanticism for coal burning that will be lost as the engines are converted. The art of successfully hand firing a steam engine all the way to Silverton and back was one of the most satisfying things ever, and firing the engines the way they were built and intended to is something that everyone just loves since it is such a unique part of history that is rare to find retained to the modern day. The smell of burning coal, the sound of firebox doors opening and closing as scoops of coal are shoveled in one after the other, and the joy and wonder in people's faces as you explain all the inner workings of the locomotive or as you hand them a piece of coal as a keepsake. It is truly a wonderful legacy and memories I will keep forever, but I'm just happy that those same steam locomotives are still running after being built approximately 100 years ago on the lines they were intended for. What a unique thing not many other places can claim, and I'm just happy to see it continue and know that I got to be a part of it.

I talked to Al Harper and the railroad was forced to convert to oil due to the fact of being able to get insurance. If they didn’t convert, then the insurance company would drop them and they probably wouldn’t get any other company to issue a policy unless they converted.

Dear Dale & Karyn, Thank you for updating us on the sad conversion from coal to oil at Durango & Chama. I rode both in the mid-1990s and consider those two trips the best vacations I ever had. I loved the smell of the coal and tolerated the cinders landing on my face. This was all part of the experience riding on a historic RR, closing my eyes, and imagining I was riding these same rails in the 1880s. I will miss that smell and adventure of coal fired steam locomotives. I hope The Silverton can survive the fire lawsuits, if not, they will have to close down a RR historical national treasure. 🙁🚂 I was in the Navy for 20 years, 4 of my ships were running 1,200 psi steam (2 aircraft carriers & 2 destroyers), the 5th, 600 psi an amphibious transport. Yes all oil fired, I’m too young to have served on coal powered ships at age 70! 🤣 I love your videos, you two are so down to Earth. 😁 Anchors aweigh, ⚓️ P.S. I’m no expert on women’s hair, but Karyn, do you ever have a bad hair day? Your hair seems to be so well kept and beautiful. 🙂🌺

Something I learned, from a You Tube video, is that not long after arriving at Durango, No. 18 blew the front off of the cylinder on the engineers side, about 1/2 way to Silverton. It is believed, as they said at the time, that some sort of internal damage was the cause. No. 18 was towed, with the little diesel (70ton) to a siding, where part of the right side was disassembled and then towed back to Durango for repairs. Nearly all of the incident was included on the video, even the sound of the cylinder coming apart. Imagine making replacement parts for a one of a kind, antique steam locomotive. Well at least Ed Dickens knows, he's done it 3 times. ;-)

I’m glad I got to ride that fantastic railroad when it was all coal. It’s sad to see it gone, but totally understandable. 🚂🚂🚂🙏🏼

Doing the 49 CFR § 230.17 - One thousand four hundred seventy-two (1472) service day inspection or 15 years which ever comes first while converting the locomotive from coal is really a great idea. Another advantage that Oil has over Coal is the cinders are much harder on the crown sheet and tubes of the boiler than oil is. Another great show as always.

one of my last trips as a truck driver before I retired,was to Durango,getting there thru Wolf creek pass was an adventure.being a train nut.the yard at durango was a great adventrue.

My sister lived in Durango and knew the train would start little fires all the time, but the train would be followed to catch the little smoldering fires. The big fire was because Colorado had very dry conditions for many months and there was no such thing as a "Little Fire" during those days.

The other issue the D&S deals with is the group of people in Durango that want the railroad shut down. These are mostly new property owners that view the railroad as a nuisance saying that the coal smoke lingers in the town and they just want it gone.

Nice video as always. In the 1920's, all the railroads in the Black Hills of SD were required to convert to oil for fire danger so always been a problem.

I’d rather see a steam engine running on oil than no steam engines at all.

I have been waiting for a video like this for a while. Brilliant job as always

I had spoken with workers on the D&S about the fire and was told that there were vagrants that were seen where the fire started. If you look on their coal stacks they have water sprayers and every train has a car that follows to put out any ciders that escape the smokestack and aren't sprayed out. They have been doing this for years and have never had a forest fire. But there are people that don't like the railroad. It is sad because the railroad brings people to town. I spoke with a restaurant that said their business was down 75% when the railroad was not running. They said they barely stayed around and had the railroad not come back they would have shut down. I love the smell of coal and hate for it to go. But I understand the pressure the D&S is under and financial they have to conform or go out of business.

I'm so glad you two made it to Durango and rode the train! Great video!

Great video. Always love the Durango scenery. It is a flash back in history. That is part of the attraction of Colorado. You and Karyn did a very good job. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you all in the attic.

I thought one of the benefits of converting to oil is that you can hook up a second tender to carry all the fuel you need or at least to extend the locomotive's range.

Thank you. Another great video from the dynamic train duo.

Hello, Bishop local here. #18 is actually based out of Independence, the foundation that owns #18 is called the Carson and Colorado, namesake for the railroad before it was bought by Southern Pacific. It was in display in independence for 5-0 some odd years before the restoration. They are laying a half mile of track or so at the independence ca museum. #8 is on display at Laws. As far as I know there are no plans to restore her.

Probably the first to do a coal to oil conversion was the late Earl Gil with his Morris County Central tourist railroad in New Jersey. This was back in the 1960's. Earl converted his steam locomotives from coal to oil firing, then bought a used oil tanker truck and drove around to gas stations who GAVE him waste oil from auto oil changes, engine rebuilds, and other things just to get rid of it, there was no oil recycling back in those days and gas stations had to pay someone to take it away. Essentially, Earl was able to fuel his steam locomotives free! His only expense was the diesel fuel for the truck.

Thanks for a great, educational video. I love the information. You do a great job of imparting your knowledge! Keep them coming!

I didn't realize just how much of a fire hazard until the 3985 and 800 came to Ogden in 1981 I think and they were both using coal. Always love your videos and work. Great times guys!

I really enjoy these road trips we get to go on with you. Thanks for sharing!

Enjoyed the video with detailed info!! Thanks!

Great video Bud!! I had no idea they were converting the old Steam Locos to Oil or that they were burning down half the Country!!☻

I’ve rode on the Durango and Silverton last year behind 493 it was a amazing experience. 482 just got finished being converted to oil a month or two ago. I don’t know why the Durango and Silverton would buy diesels.

Great episode as usual. We flew to Fairbanks a few years ago and then took the Alaska Rail train down to Anchorage. A fantastic trip in itself. Then we cruised down to Vancouver. At Skagway, we took the WPY steam trip up to Carcross. An all day trip. Not sure we could say which segment of the trip was better as they are so different. Booked the whole trip through the cruise company. Cam and Shawn

OUTSTANDING info! Thank you.

I wonder if Dollywood is considering converting their locomotive from coal to oil. I have read the two engine each can burn 5 tons of coal on a busy day. With that and the fact there was a huge forest fire in the Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg area a few years ago (not caused by the Dollywood locos!) I could see this being consideration. I have ridden those trains and they are wonderful, but they warn you of the cinders and they do fly into your face. My wife and I had sunglasses but my daughter did not, so she was careful to keep her head down most of the ride. Their engines also came form the White Pass & Yukon!

Very good information as to why the conversion.

Our local railroad the Skunk Train converted a long time ago. We have never had coal access so it made a lot of sense. They also use recycled motor oil so that’s kind of cool.

Great video enjoyed watching, I just hope Cumbres and Toltec can keep their engines on coal. I rode 493 oil burner, did not have the power coal did. It was raining that day, 31 September and 493 could hardly make it up the hill. Had to stop 3 times to build up steam. C & T RR, is the best scenic ride. Thanks 🙏 Durango could keep one or two to run in the winter time. 👍👍👍

As long as it still heats water into steam, which powers the machine, I don't care if runs on uranium.

I agree, the fire hazards related to the hot cinders coming from these Iron Horses is definetly a consideration for the conversion. Even though the locos on lines like the Durango & Silverton had modifications to reduce the risk, they still want to reduce it as much as possible and still run these steam elephants.

Many years ago when I was on the Silverton, they had a guy on the Caboose with a radio, to call in fires, caused by sparks from the coal fire. They even had equipment staged along the route to deal with fires. And you could see where fires had started, and where quickly put out. So coal has its problem. It would be nice if they left one coal fired engine on the line. ITs too bad they didn't get on that fire quicker. Stay safe. P.S. I know Cinders are an issue, but what makes more cinders, hard or soft coal?

Great looking locos . thank you

I am glad to see the change-over to preserve our mountain sides. Even wheels can generate sparks which start fires but oil is a good step to make the operation of these beautiful machines safer. I am going to research how the change is calculated and performed.

Do you know if they could make a cover for the oil tanks on the locomotives that makes it look like it has coal. Just like modle trains?? I know they did something like that with the General but it had a fake wood load.

I've been working on a project to buy and restore a small steam engine that's on display in a park near where I live and since it has alot of wood on it and the tender is in need of a complete rebuild I've been considering converting it to oil, it was given a cosmetic restoration in 1992 and it looks like they bolted the tender tank to cheap and thin wooden planks on the tender frame and that'll will all need to be replaced anyway since it's starting to rot so I've been considering replacing the whole coal bunker with a brand new oil tank.

I was on 3985's first excursion in June, 1982 from Salt Lake to Provo, UT. During a photo run-by on the trip, it set what ended up being a 5-alarm brush fire due to sparks & embers from the stack. Fortunately, 3977, a Challenger on display in North Platte, NE, was an oil burner. So the oil equipment was removed from that engine and fitted to 3985. In addition to solving the fire problem, the conversion also simplified the fuel logistics. Home heating oil is available anywhere. Suitable steam coal, not so much. This allowed 3985 to venture off of UP's rails and tour the eastern United States. And one unexpected benefit: a big, black, billowing exhaust for run-bys is easier to accomplish on oil.

SP No. 18, aka the Slim Princess, was displayed for years in a small park in Independence, CA, south of Bishop. Used to stop by and check it out every time I'd go that way down Hwy 395 to So Cal to visit my folks. That video of it blowing the front off the cylinder is interesting to say the least.

Love the Rat Fink shirt your wearing !!!!! Another great video, Thank you.

The Durango and Silverton was blamed for a major fire.

I read that it was almost impossible for Big Boys to be oil burners because it was believed that it couldn't make enough heat to make the locomotive run. But that was also a time when the Big Boys were used for more freight traffic than it was today.

Is there any methods for reducing the unburned coming out of the stack of either the oil conversions or the diesel-electrics??

Locomotives of the old west had spark arresting chimneys to avoid setting fire to lineside foliage especially in dry seasons. In Britain branch line railway stations were built miles away from the villages they served as a means to avoid setting fire to the thatched roofs of cottages therein.

Milwaukee road 261 Is now being converted to oil too...

Yeah that's right I heard the White Pass and Yukon sold some of their vintage diesel fleet to the Colorado Narrow Gauge

That was interesting, I can see the economic benefit of going to oil over coal. Numbers one would be the cost of liability insurance. Two would be availability of oil. Yes it's kinda sad to see them switching, but the average Joe is not going to know the difference between a coal powered engine or a oil powered engine.

Does the Cumbres and Toltec use the same coal mine as the Durango & Silverton?? With the Durango & Silverton not using coal, there may not be enough coal sales to keep the mine open.

Hey great video toy man television I also heard rio grande southern 41 is headed out to Durango for a complete restaration right now

Could they be converted to nat gas or something which burns cleaner and lacks the smell?

Nice informative video as usual. Do get over to Laws. It is like a town frozen in time. Lots of interesting buildings and RR artifacts. I hope to get to the White Pass sometime myself. Its on my bucket list.

Hope you got a look at the two 6 axle diesels they have now. I had no idea such a critter even existed!

At the end of the day, whether they run on coal or oil, they’re still running steam when they can.

As always thanks for the video. Can anyone tell me what type of oil are they getting? Bunker C or home heating oil(this is essentially diesel fuel)? As to the future, remember a group in the UK built a steam locomotive from the ground up. There is also a group using the plans for a Pennsy T-4 to build a new steam locomotive.

Great video, love the steam engines. Question, what do they seal the oil bunkers with? Is there an interior case for the seal or what? I am assuming they don't want diesel fuel sitting on top of metal that might be corrosive. Sorry, I am just interested not having much knowledge of steam.

SP narrow gauge is awesome! I grew up with oil fired narrow gauge (Midwest central in Iowa!) The UK is running into issues with coal as well. For them (UK) the coal is getting way too expensive and hard to get out of the ground anymore. There was a Milwaukee Road train in Iowa that set some fields on fire, so oil/diesel locomotives can set fires too.

Well my Steam engines run on Electric with JUST a drop of OIL , save the coal for later 🤔🚂🚃🚃🚃Just kidding about here , really like YOUR CHANNEL VIDEOS 👍👍🎭

618 is also being converted to Oil, I am glad I at least got the chance to shovel some coal before that changed, I hope it gets finished soon so I can go see it run again

Did you say engine number 489 is your favorite engine on the Cumbres and Toltec? That’s my favorite engine on that railroad too.

There are tourist railroads that use used cooking oil as fuel for their steam locomotives. Grand Canyon Railway in Arizona and the steam operations of US Sugar Corporation in Florida use used cooking oil, taken from the nearby diners in the area.

I remember being 5 going to Durango and silverton and riding it the smell of coal brings back so much nostalgia. I hope one day to be Able to ride it one more time with a coal one pulling it. But at the end of the day a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive

I wonder if the performance is the same? I would assume the coal has more BTUs than oil.

The Georgetown Loop engine has been oil for at least 30 years. I remember it was oil when my kids were little the last time we road it.

We did White Pass in Alaska last year. Some sections are really scary.

Thank you for an informative video. There is something special about the smell of coal burning steam engines. Several years ago, the Jupiter and 119 at Golden Spike National Historical Park had to have their boilers inspected/rebuilt because of the regulations on steam boilers, (see 18:50 time stamp), 49 Code of Federal Regulations Part 230.

The railroad has no interest in completely switching to diesel. The steam engines will still be alive and well. The railroad has said that many times

That's a bummer but, it makes sense though. Very informative.

A German class 52 locomotive was converted to run on light oil in Switzerland, This is 52.8055. The Swiss mountain railways have locomotives built in 1993 running on oil. They use less fuel than their diesels.

The fact that an oil fired locomotive can also burn any kind of vegetable oil makes it renewable. Interestingly I have never fired anything but oil on five different locomotives.

I'm thinking of doing some modifications on some of my HO scale steam locomotives to make them burn oil, also I'm planning on visiting the Steam Railroading Institute for my birthday this August

GOOD VIDEO VERY INTERESTING AND IMPRESSIVE I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH STAY SAFE AND CAREFUL JIM KAMMERER OF PHILADELPHIA PA NORFOLK SOUTHERN RULES MY RAILS AWESOME GOOD VIDEO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR SHARING THIS WITH YOUR SUBSCRIBERS 👍👍👍👍👍👌👍👍

Now outta curiosity would they keep an engine or 2 to run on coal so that during the winter months when there is snow they can run the coal burners to allow maintenance to be done on all of the oil burning engines? Just an idea I had

Road the White Pass & Yukon, several years ago. They have been using Diesel for a long time. I think they use steam on special occasions.

The diesel locomotive has the same color of the great smokey mountains railway

My father took me to the laws railroad museum when I was a kid and then I took my son who was five there also that's when I heard about the plans of laying rails at least to Bishop and that was 18 years ago it is a fun place though 👍👍

Evolve or die. I think this is actually a great thing if it allows steam to continue while keeping an eye on environmental responsibility. I’m sure the folks with homes near the right of way are exceedingly grateful as well.

The choice is run on oil or drop the fires & let them go cold forever. There are no other viable options.

In the winter, they could run a coal burner. But one thing you didn't mention is operation of the oil burners. It is far easier to fire one than it is to fire one burning coal. Far easier on the back of the fireman. Fireman gets to spend time on the seatbox instead of standing. Allows finer control of the fire and is more likely not to have a hole in the fire that can damage the tubes like a coal fire can. So the fireman gets to keep an eye on the track more and also the injector. Better control of the fire can result in less water use. The problem with cinders is better but can still be there on an oil burner. You do have to sand out the flues every so often. Even Diesel locos can throw cinders out which you actually want to clean out of the exhaust system every so often if the engine doesn't spend enough time in run 8. I've run an ALCo S-2 which at night looked like a volcano when I loaded it down on the last run of the day. And it had a cinder breaking stack. A stainless 1/4 inch opening grid that was 1/8th inch wire. The other thing an oil burner can do is build a " bone " in the firebox. that is caused by impurities in the oil and the use of sand. Bunker C was bad at it. C4 or C6 was less of a problem but still could. Some oil burners are now running on veggie oil that they get from places like Wendy's, McDonald's, etc.... Saves regular oil but smells like french fries when burnt.😉

Just went There a while ago super fun

It's almost the same result of throwing a lit cigarette out the side of a car window and starting a small brush fire coal ember's can do the same thing. I drove right thru and by the Spanish Fork brush fire in my 18-wheeler just last year people don't realize one cigarette can have an everlasting effect in nature and animals by causing unecessary brush fires and deaths

The K37's didn't start life as standard gauge engines, the were built new for the Rio Grand as 3ft narrow gauge engines. Besides that fantastic video.

I'll miss the coal on the D&S but it's for the best. I have been recording some of the final coal operations with #481 this winter.

Great video. It’s a bummer they have to convert to oil but I understand. Would rather see them burning oil than not running at all.

Especially given that Rio Grande 464 and Alaska 152 live an hour down the road from me, there's no way I would travel to Colorado tp ride behind a diesel. Oil fired steam locomotives are a different story. Oil fuel is an authentic solution that has been in use for at least 100 years. The first operating steam locomotive I ever saw as a kid in the 60's, Polson Logging/Saginaw Timber #2, has, to the best of my knowledge. been oil fired since 1912. Neither is 4014 the first oil fired big boy. U.P converted to oil fuel. The first one was done in the 40's and operated for 11 months before it was converted back due to an unsatisfactory burner arrangement. Many people are also unaware of the oil bunker hiding under the wood load on Sierra #3's tender. #3 hasn't been coal fired for around 100 years and just for the record, was never wood fired. OK, so oil smoke doesn't smell as good as coal, but I can live with it.

I wish there was a way to burn oil but have an artificial coal burning smell

The Southern Pacific was oil firing steam locomotives as early as the 1890s so oil firing during the age of steam was more common than one would think, though of course primarily on western railroads. And even during the steam era locomotives we're converted to oil firing during their service lives so this is nothing new. Being interested in western railroads, particularly in California, I have always been use to oiled fired steam locomotives so I just see the conversation as a normal steam locomotive maintenance item. The oil burning of course is cleaner, less labor intensive, easier on equipment (no abrasive cinders to worry about) and more economical. At the end of the day a steam locomotive is still a steam locomotive regardless of what is burned in the firebox, it just has to run on steam, so if the fuel burned can be made cleaner and cleaner than all the better.

An excellent video. 💙 T.E.N.

They should have a OIL RECYCLING DROP OFF of used engine oil at Durango from all the used automotive and truck oil. Because I don't think the oil quality is an issue as long as it's filtered and water separatoed ... And then they can get their oil for FREE!!

I would think anything east of the Missouri will be able to stick with coal. There is a lot of steam rail roading out east.

Of course, it fixes the fire danger; but it also lessens the employees to run a Diesel locomotive. Plus they don't have boiler inspections and tear-downs that often. Ely is going to and has bought several and I would guess they will run diesel almost all the time and they will run steam once in a while because it's a whole lot cheaper. I think the D & S may find that not too many people will ride behind a diesel but us old guys are dying off and the younger people won't mind because they never saw trains being pulled by a steam train.

It's possible to convert a steam locomotive from coal to oil but you need to convert it properly unless it's performance could be damage

Durango Colorado is also where the Mountain Bikes were created too.

Why would this happen now and not during the steam era?

Karyn! you never found Dirt in the engine shop this time, maybe they converted him TOO? Thank you for your time Paul.

Not all locomotives at Durango are being converted to oil. They are keeping one as a coal burning locomotive I got this info from a friend who is working at the the D&SRR.

There's a seaplane service to Skagway, that would be a video in its own right!!

i think it had something to do with a forest fire and the D&SNG was blamed

There can be a debate on why coal mines are shutting down? Seriously? C’mon man.

Sigh. Are we going to be talking about battery powered K37's ten years from now? I guess we should all get out and smell that coal smoke while still can.