Theyre missing the build a fun game part

To piggyback on what Luke said, it's not just pulling people from a different game. They need to get them to keep coming back. In order to do that, they need to constantly create new content for the game. They need to have teams dedicated to addressing bugs and optimizing gameplay. The problem is that these studios release the games and abandon them. Why would gamers play a live service game that gets empty and lackluster updates every 3 months over a game that gets an update with new content and gameplay fixes every two weeks?

Helldivers 2 has been one of the only games to do live service right. It’s so refreshing to see

There's an oversaturation of live service games and most of them don't offer anything new to keep players engaged and coming back

When every game is asking for all your time, especially during a time where people are having less and less, it's hard to find players. Helldivers 2 knows this, and that's why the game is so unpunishing to people that don't play for a while. You still get to claim your order rewards, you still can unlock all the warbonds, you can grind as much as you want when you want.

They build a store front then half-assedly slap the veneer of a game over it and expect people to gush all their money on it. Rinse and repeat. Crazy.

Honestly, I'm 90% sure they are so focused on live service because it 'prevents piracy' regardless of whether or not people actually want to play live service games.

It's actually not hard to pull people initially into a game. People like having multiple GOOD games to play. The problem is, there are certain players who will give games multiple chances but most won't. Most try it, it sucks, and they don't come back bc they cherish the few good games they have. We're all mostly adapting to how studios are screwing us and just not giving some studios 2nd or 3rd chances.

This is why the push needs to stop. I realize that the reward is hard to ignore but the risk is bad for everyone.

Helldivers got 40k, starship troopers, and halo fans in one game

The funny thing is, this EXACT scenario already happened with WOW and the rush for all these studios to make their own MMO. But surprise surprise, WOW fans just played WOW. We're just getting that whole situation being repeated now with live service. Why do execs never learn?

You just have to make a good game. Something a lot of these studios don’t seem to be capable of. Helldivers is new and something we haven’t really seen for live service that’s why it works so well. Companies just want to copy everyone instead of coming up with a real idea

Helldivers 2 is from a well-respected developer, from 1 and Magicka 1 & 2, and no history of live service trash. Its not a PVP microtransaction debacle, so it can't be called anything similar to the live service messes of those described CEOS. A better lesson for those CEOs might be to not make live service games xD

This, but you also have to remember that with a limited amount of players, there's a limited number of time each, and not everyone can play multiple games. My three current live service games, well four including the long abandoned TF2. Is Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and Deep Rock Galactic. Because those games for the most part respect players times and money, mine at least, I am able to play games inbetween them. They're what I'd call time neutral games. Where the battle passes aren't hard to max. And the time needed to get all rewards is quick (Deep rock especially) So I don't see myself moving to another live service game until these games I currently play are finished or abandoned. With TF2 being one I just drop in and out of.

To be successful you have to bring something new, if you just make your own fortnite why the hell would people play that over fortnite. But if you create an amazing new game (like helldivers 2) then people will leave their old game for your new one

I onlynplay single player games.. I wont buy a game with microtransactions, or drm.. And I have no problem waiting 2 years for a sale I like to OWN my games, and play them years later! Im strange that way, with atuff I pay for

I remember the same thing happening with MMOs about 12 years ago. So many companies wanted what WoW had but couldn’t realise there were only so many losers willing to pay $10 a month and keep playing a game forever.

live service at the end of the day is just multiplayer game like in the past. They want a game they can update for long time simple as that

I just don't understand how these guys are incapable of understanding _basic fucking logic._

It doesn't help that alot of these games are just straight up HALF STEPPING their games.

Helldivers being not $60 really helped imo. That $20 'discount' is really massive in a sea of dogshit $70 games which are gutted to shit unless you pay $90 for the full edition.

Totally on point, im not gona quit Apex Legends after thousands of hours and a few hundred € spent, for another potential shooter.

In a years time there will be like 5 subpar Helldivers clones with half the content and twice the MTX. Corporations will consistently learn the wrong lessons from available data, sure as clockwork

It's only been a couple months but helldivers 2 is killin it

It reminds me of the late 2000’s into the 2010’s when everyone was making an MMO. They all saw the success of WoW and RuneScape and thought they would do the same, but people didn’t really want to leave those games they had dumped a thousand hours into to try a new MMO that might suck or die within a year.

Their missing the fact that people arent rich and need a good game that earn their dedication and money

A soul. Most games don't.. and most devs have had it burned out of them

So, I gave up most multi-player games. Helldivers 2 is reminiscent of L4D2 of just fun gameplay, and it reinforces your behavior so you want to be a good player and help others as well

Hell Divers merges multiple corners of the gamersphere. All the Halo ODST fans who already called themselves Hell Divers with the motto “Feet First Into Hell”, 40k Brothers just excited to purge Xenos for the Imperium of Man, movie buffs playing out Starship Troopers. Get everyone in here to do their part

How soon before all the big names in IP's for games start making their own versions of Helldivers 2 for their brands?

General flow of the industry is some small team will do something actually creative and the big companies, afraid of risk. Will spend the next decade cloning it relentlessly until the next actually creative product pops up

Most of then are also single player studios with good reputation forced to make them due to shareholder demands which is bad because they don’t have the experience or the team skill to make such a game. So their first outing will highly likely be bad and most often kill the studio due to it being AAA live service so there is no room for iteration

They’re missing that we don’t like live service games

It’s just like with the streaming services to many of them thought they could take Netflix’s lunch, but people can only afford so many subscriptions

Lets not forget that people despise live service games as a whole. Its easy to say "Look at HellDivers 2, its so successful and its live service!" But I can guarantee you its not the live service part of that game that people like. In fact not even that long ago it annoyed people to no end because they couldn't connect to play the game.

For me, a live service needs to do something that I haven't done 1000s of times before and then do it the best that it can be done. Most live services are following one of the existing models so I am already at a point of disinterest.

I have 100 percent stopped buying and paying attention to any AAA or live service games. They just release broken, not fun, micro transaction riddled games. I only support AA and indie devs until shit changes. I lnow im not the only one. There are a lot of people who have left that market as well, and the studios wont gain their trust back.

Every year there is an opportunity for the gaming market to be upended out of nowhere by a surprise fun experience. That experience is never going to be the game that you think can take over. It just never will be predictable.

Video game companies don't seem to understand that they need to make a good actual fun game if they want to make a live service game. You can't just have a game be live service and then just expect it to work.

To expand, its that glut in the market. There is definitely space for live service games but *not that much space*. You cant expect runaway successes when Fortnite, Apex, Helldivers, Overwatch, R6 Siege, whatever 20$ multiplayer indie game is out at the time are all dominating space and attention. This isnt even a new problem because its what happened to the MMO space in the early 2000s. You could not beat wow because WoW dominated player counts and kept them yet the industry insisted on trying despite the fact that most mmos never got past a niche status

Never heard it put like that before but it definitely makes sense

Before Helldivers I wasn't really playing anything but I haven't stopped playing since

Not only is it a fixed number but it’s a declining number too

This. It’s going to be VERY hard for a game to pull me away from Apex legends. Been playing since launch. Before that, I played Siege from its launch. And before that, CS.

I feel like deeprock galactic and helldivers players are cut from the same cloth.

They aren't succeeding with live service games because they are trying to monetise the soul out of it. Helldivers 2 is live service and they are succeeding because fun comes first and they made an incredibly fun game, where any microtransaction is a choice (you can earn it all for free, including the paid currency).

You have to be so much fun that you beat the "Sunk Cost Fallacy" basically.

This should be played on repeat at the entrance of every gaming company!

A big reason why a lot of us in the Battlefield scene are expressing that Premium needs to come back for the franchise. The "live service" of 2042 for example, is a dumpster fire of content drought, drip fed almost nothing with core mechanics that still don't work years after release.

all the long term successful games , had one thing in common, a Great Solo story. everything after is just a bonus. the studios have forgotten what sells games , it is certainly not overpriced skins.

What doesn't really help larger publishers is they are expecting numbers and quarterly earnings similar to very well established live service games while putting 0 effort into community building. Like they look at fortnite numbers and expect something like that without taking into consideration how to got to there.

Vast majority of live service games came out unfinished and severely lacking content for what it supposed to be, which is like starting a race with legs tied up.

I play World of Tanks (3 battles per day, approx 20 mins), FO76 (daily challenges, approx 20 mins, and my wife also plays), and Destiny (whatever season mission there is, plus some season grind, approx an hour per day). I also used to play Anthem, as did my wife. Then if a game like BG3 comes out I may play 4 to 5 hours, and then I have classics like CivIV etc and a daughter that wants me to play Hot Wheels 2. Already it's easy to see that the "Live Service" games are way down the pecking order, the absolute bare minimum is done to just tick over the account until some kind of significant release. A new game, particularly a live service, that extends beyond a finite time (I recently completed Return to Grace and Fire Watch for instance) just isn't going to work for me - especially if it means abandoning friends etc (or my wife).

Yeah,you can't just be good,you gotta be the king.

What not to list? -diminishing returns... People can only do 1-2 LAGs period -the increasing stance of fomo. -expect to play every day -more and more money expected -repeditive gameplay

They're chasing the mythical "general audience".

Helldivers 2 also has broken new ground. Several of my buddies and I play HD2 everyday and we had never engaged with a live service game before. This is lightning in a bottle and it's a shame because companies do not and shall not understand that.

True

They're all chasing the tsunami that tore through the industry in '17-'18, called Fortnight.

They focus so much on the numbers and process and barely anything on the fun and entertainment that people ACTUALLY want

This is also the reason why BG3 got game of the year.

If money is part of the vision before any further ideas then how far can it truly get

you know your stuff. salute

Helldivers 2 is fun, viral, high quality, and updated enough to actually convert players to its live service. And that's because the Dev's actually care about the players and the game, not just microtransactions.

Agree 100%. The live service business model was only set up to succeed a limited number of times, and unfortunately, the first few developers that adapted the model are the ones that are successful. Of course there are exceptions, but just like its stated here, it's few and far between. Most gamers don't want it, and most developers don't want to do it. Hopefully we can leave it behind in the next decade or two.

They sure are missing a lot, but they're not missing the shop features

a wise man understands that definitions matter.

and heldiver looks like starship troopers the movie and its nostalgic for some players

Exactly what helldivers did to me from warframe...1300 hrs on warframe...if helldivers have expansions like warframe id definitely be 1300 hrs in that game too

Helldivers the only live service I’m playing rn. Gonna be that way for a long time I feel like

The problem with live service is eventually it dies because players will move onto different things. And there's only so much content you can make before it becomes repetitive

Yeah, I'm deep into Genshin and even their other titles can't pull me in (until they finish the other games or Genshin is done first)

Most live service games revolve around getting loot. Which is extremely boring to me personally. Grind out quests until you get the god tier item then wait for the next season for the next god tier item. Yawn. Grinding is boring as fuck to me and not interesting in the least bit. Give me a good story with good characters any day and you’ll have my money everytime. Give me a loot grind and I’ll pass all day.

Helldiver's convinced me that I want to "spread managed democracy" that line in the real world sounds like a love letter to Putin.

I just want studios to start popping up that want to SOLELY focus on single player games that are fun. I know there isn’t CRAZY money in that these days, but I don’t care about playing games online… I just want a good campaign that I can play by myself when I’m not working! I’m 37 now, so I’m no spring chicken. I understand that I’m not their target audience.

The market can only sustain a handful of live service games. All these companies want a piece of a very finite pie

Helldivers works because it’s something a lot of people haven’t experienced before along with everything kinda being told it such a great way from how leaks get handled and everything

This is why I love a good old fashion RPG. Finished game, play on my own time, explore, loot, build a character. But still have that sense of community with the wiki, KZfaq videos and more if the game has Co-op like a Dark Souls or Baldur’s Gate. Can’t really get behind live service, use to like Destiny but Bungie burnt the bridge too many times. Not many others have hooked me.

Well I hope if games like Harry Potter are made live service there's still an option to play it offline without a subscription. I paid for a product in it's current form and expect it to be playable in that form

This is a thing I've talked about with my freinds. I only have so many hours in one day, so I can only juggle so many games at once. For the most part, I have two-three games at once. Halo infinite for a couple hours of action, then A single player game (mostly a jrpg) and then Fate grand order( A mobile game. I used to play destiny, but that took all of my time and I got bored of it. Thats my other issue with luve service games. I dont want to play the same exact game forever.

I feel like developers of Hunt:Showdown (crytek) are doing a pretty good job, they try new thing, some of them don't work but I feel like they don't fall into live service traps that other games usually do because hunt Is a pretty unique game in it own way, and most of live service models would just not work at all, hopefully they don't break it with an engine upgrade

the supply for live service is huge right now. the demand is at an all time low. most players who arent already playing exclusively 1 game only dont want live service. they want single player games thay respect their time, but have a long enough playtime and replay value. they dont want grindy bullshit. they want good gameplay and good stories.

I mean, if helldivers did what a lot of games and service games do, which is to say that at the very least they made it so that the cosmetics were purchasable only by paying money, helldivers to would not be as popular. Explicitly the reason why people ignore the fact that it is a games as service, is because functionally it doesn't have to be. In fact, it is only marginally easier if you just spend money.

This is exactly why I don't understand why every major gaming company is hell-bent on making everything into live service, plenty of games out there that just don't need to be live service and would probably work better in a self contained enviroment, yet they keep forcing live service elements into it often to the detrement of the game.

They also need to justify having a price at all bc the most popular live service game is literally free so you need to stand out in one way or another

Another option is to make a niche game, kindna like what Helldivers 2 did. Co-op shooter is surprisingly rarely executed well

Also as an Adult you have only time to play one live service game when its PvP, 2-3 PvE at best. Depends if you have an ther hobbies or want to play singleplayer games too. Nowadays devs are like: 100+ hours of gameplays! Endless possibilities! However, more often than not, I really enjoy short games more. Imo 30hours is probably my ideal game. Add in some neat Sidequest and interesting collectibles and I will also stay for 50-60 hours. But when I know that a Game already takes this long only to best the main quest, it has to be one hell of a game like RDR2, Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk. I hate the trend of making games super huge and long with meaningless content. Looking at you AC: Valhalla...

I gotta say a couple of the failures also come from Bethesda and studios taking lore oriented single player games and forcing them to live service like that’s what those fan bases always wanted was being forced to interact with players😂

Trend chasing rarely works once the landscape has set. See animation, Console Wars, fantasy movies, MMORPG, super hero movies, and now live service. But while companies know it, investors don't, or don't care. They are willing to back the 1 in a million shot if the reward MIGHT be big enough. In fact I'm starting to think that's why games take so long now. Its churn for churn's sake. Why pump out a destiny clone in 2-3 years and maybe get nothing, when you can guarantee 5-6 years of Development money.

I cant believe they havent figured this out yet. The only consistent player bases that will shell out money year after year after year without deviating are boys who play EA sports and COD. Besides them, you have about 1.5- 2 million gamers globally who habitually participate in assorted online games. (Who actually pay for them, not relying on mommy/daddy.) Theres probably at least 50 million broke children/teenagers to try and parasite off of and thats the main target, hence the lack of quality for 95% of online services since teenagers/children have little to no reference level.

so build a fun game before you build the cash shop.

Helldiver's 2 and overhype tower defence very exceptional

I haven't had coop fun like helldivers 2 since left4dead it's great

And even then you can still say something about hell divers following the extraction shooter trend. Not in mechanics per se. But def genre

I think a lot of people just wanna unwind when they game and don't care to play with a bunch of strangers. Also, relying on good internet service is a big ask. In some areas you're just NOT going to get the bandwidth to play.

There is also those of us who HATE live service games, and those who do not play live service because we know it is OBJECTIVELY BAD for gaming.

to make it simpler. genre maters. halo infinite and overwatch 2 abandoned coop mode to focus on pvp games and compete with other pvp games so helldivers 2 kinda adopted them in including l4d enjoyers.

The new live service devs/publishers need to learn their lesson from the MMORPG genre. For years and years people tried to make the "WoW killer" by making basically WoW with some slight changes in game play and aesthetics, but wasn't fundamentally different. So, why go play the new thing when I've already put so much time in WoW, and also, all my friends are also still playing WoW.

...And to finish out what bro was saying right at the end their, if these studios are thinking about what others have done already, they never will be exceptional. Helldivers is a breath of fresh air in an oversaturated genre.

Wise words.