It's tough to buy new when there hasn't been innovation (on the boot side) for almost 15 years. Most tele skiers I know are ready to pull the trigger on new boots, but there isn't a new choice to consider so everyone just keeps skiing what they got.

Josh, I’m one of those still on Targas. I even find the switchback to lack the even flex of the Targa. I’ve squirreled parts, bought new ones when they pop up. After decades of teaching, testing for BC Mag and helping some local shops figure out what to order, I believe leverage to be a real factor. If you are not tall, if you have small feet the binding you are on matters more. The Targa is lightweight, tours well without the need of a free pivot, allows one to stand and flex where they want. I also believe we in the ski industry need to be thinking more about sustainability, Instead of encouraging a toss it it’s outmoded sort of philosophy. For instance, as a totally addicted Tele skier, I have at least 6 pairs of skis with Targas on them. It makes no financial sense to switch to NTN. I had squirreled away several pairs of Garmont Athena’s that have now been well used. I’m currently trying to work out the different feel of the Scarpa T2 which I just bought.

Thanks Josh! It’s great to hear from you. I much prefer even a desktop video over the audio only podcast. As a long time tele skier who has gone through many boot/binding combos and knows what I want from a setup, I would say that both you and all those you mention (including me) who pontificate about the health and welfare of tele are correct. We are few (comparatively), the desired tele “feel” is very personal (making a binding that could provide this amount of tweakability and features would be very difficult and expensive) , and we are cheap. These are the facts, but pointing a finger to any combination of these things does nothing to move tele forward. The thing we can do to move tele forward is promote the sport by making it more appealing and inviting. Honestly, I think the best things we can do to promote telemark are: 1. Work on improving our skills and rip the shit out of it! People are watching, and they are not going to be inspired to try telemark if we are flailing and out of control, or God forbid, DOUBLE POLE PLANTING!!! 2. Look good. Not just your skills, but your kit. Let’s dress to impress out there! No more black pants, and no knee pads worn on the outside! 3. Be a tele ambassador. Be friendly, approachable, and show everyone how much fun telemark skiing can be. 4. Always bring your apres A-game! Want to be an influencer in your local mountain town? Call out “Last call, first chair!” When you stroll into the bar and follow through. Anyways, I think you and your crew are probably the best and most visible example of this. Keep killing it! Regards, Ed (AKA Kneel Turner)

Great content Josh! It's all about dropping a knee and making beautiful turns no matter what type of gear you use. Telemark skiing (or any skiing) is about enjoying gliding down a snowy slope, improving your technique and getting some snow in your face whether it be on a green run or some hard hitting double diamond. We should be most concerned with people enjoying tele skiiing on what ever equipment they have and on what ever slope they feel most comfortable skiing. That's what skiing is really about for me. I would love to try NTN equip but, as someone mentioned below, it makes no financial sense to stop skiing my current equipment. I ski 20+ year old 75mm equip, Scarpa T2, have 4 pair of skis/bindings and am not really sure I want to spend a cpl thousand dollars to try new equip that I may not like as much. So am I cheap?? well I guess I am but I love to tele ski and that's all that matters. Hope to drop by your shop soon to see what I am missing!!

Thanks for the balanced, nuanced, and inclusive comments. We should be happy that folks are telemarking, on whatever equipment they have. One of the things I love about tele is all the kinds of equipment I can make tele turns on - my quiver spans 3pins on XCD-type skis, switchbacks on Tuas, Targas on BD Ethics, and fully modern Lynx on Atomic Backlands. I use the 3pin XCD set up and the Lynx set up the most often. I think folks should try the new gear (it's friggin awesome), but I'm just glad they still tele :).

Great video. I started telemarking on skinny skis with leathers. Currently I still ski my leathers/3 pin/Karahu XCDs, but also T1/AXL/K2 and TXPros/outlawx/Salomon QST. I have also dabbled into Frankenbindings(tech toe/AXL,Techton10/voile). Each of the setups ski different but all make telemark turns. Still looking for a lightweight, step in binding with adjustable release and breaks. Meidjo is close but the tech toe is sometime finicky and getting into touring mode requires disengaging the tech toe. I do spend money on equipment but still looking for the holy grail. Keep up the good work

This is me...I'm still skiing my K2 World Piste, Garmont Syner-G boots, and my G3 Targas. I LOVE the feel of this setup and I can ski anything on the mountain - funny to think that the K2 World Piste was a mid-fat ski when I bought it (122 / 80 / 107mm)...but super skinny now :-) Had my bindings pull out of my skis 2 seasons ago (these skis had a mount system pre-drilled and the turn pressure finally stripped out the mount and pulled the binding out. I went on a Tele forum and found a guy who had a set of the same skis in the same length just sitting in his basement and I bought them for $100 with his Black Diamond bindings (mid-stiff) - so I got them home and threw my old Targas on and BOOM, I was back on the slopes. I seriously considered going full NTN when my beloved skis broke, but at $100 to get me back up skiing, that was an easy decision. I'd still like to try NTN and see how I like it, but I'm nervous that after all these years I'll lose that feel. I'd really like to be able to demo a set, but unless we get that retail shop here on the front range in CO I'll just go with my old setup for now...until it won't go anymore :-)

Some thoughts... I hear what you are saying about the "telemark feel," but there is another aspect of it that is more specific. The unique thing about tele, more-so than alpine I feel (I do both) is that different telemark gear requires somewhat different techniques, and for the most part tele is self-taught. I mean it is still a drop knee turn no matter what you are on, but if you are used to a "ramped" G3 or Red Chili, and a duckbill, you are not only going to be adjusted to the "elf toe" balance point, the instability while flat footed, but you will also be used to a longer ramp up in edge grip, and for many they have learned to use this with an "expert effect." And then there is the issue of ski choice and how those choices work with the binding in particular. I think for a lot of people, once they find the combo that works best for them for what they are loving to do, they really don't want to start the hunt again, or learn new techniques and start the combo hunt, especially when they were happily managing what they are used to. And a lot of us telemarkers are getting pretty old. Old dog new tricks? Personally, I started as a young teen in 1982 on lace-ups and skinny 3 pin skis, which were trad, but ironically resort focused, perhaps even more than today when everyone seems to want a BC ski to ski primarily in-resort. My first boots were the single boot Asolo Extreme lace ups. First skis were 210cm Kazama "Telemark Edge(s)" with Asolo 3 pin bindings. Choinard (BD) weren't even a ski thing yet. The stuff was horrible, but I learned how to use it well, racing and doing mogul tournys with high end results by the mid-80s. And I longed for and envisioned a day when the sport could break from its trad prison cell of leather, skinny skis and 3 pin. Back then people were proud to have or to try to master such crap gear, and they openly hated on anyone trying to break the sport out. But eventually, begrudgingly it did evolve. In fact it almost seems a joke that anyone today skiing a plastic boot on a post-80s BC ski would claim "trad" status just because they aren't on NTN. Having been there for basically every iteration of the telemark ski setup, having used and evolved with them all, if there is one setup I miss, it was the first gen, leather/plastic cuffed 1984 Merrill Super Comp matched with the super cambered Kazama Telemark Comp (or even a few years later, utilizing a Dynastar Course GS ski, (much to the disgust of the then "community"). Its not that it was a better setup than my current variety, today using several different skis with Outlaw bindings and TX Pros to match conditions; no, it is what I could specifically do with my old, old ass gear in very specific, although albeit normal resort conditions. I will go so far as to say that with just 8 ft of "edge of the run" width, on steep groom, I could tear up that terrain with surgical quick turns that is truly more challenging on my newer, heavier and more damp gear, whether I'm on a slalom ski or what not. It was just a setup that worked really, really well for that in particular. Seriously! And of all the skiing I've done, amazingly great conditions and scenarios, those turns, on old shit, down the sides of say a run like The Plunge at Teluride, were the most enjoyable , graceful but aggro "feeling" turns I have ever done. The skis just popped back then, and the tips came around on their own when unweighted. And edging was a matter of depth of drop knee and rear foot bias. And I miss that. Of course, in other conditions, the old setup could ski like horror story bad. If I could have a set-up that did that and what my modern gear can do... Sign me up. But everything is give and take. Personally, having tried it all now, most all the new modern bindings, variety of boot, skis et all I'll take the new, but I can't blame someone wanting to keep doing the very particular thing they love about the turn, even if it is not the latest thing. And even if it isn't the best they could be on for all things in general. It's really not a matter of money, or even feel I think, but more-so the experiencing of it. Let's be honest... The greatest thing about NTN (all varieties) is also its curse to the duckbill accustomed crowd. And that is to say that NTN has great flat-foot stability but comes on in a severe and shocking way for those who cut their teeth with the duckbills. In fact, when I bought the very first gen Scarpa TX's to match with the first gen Rottelfella NTN bindings, on day one while trying to rip short radius "POP" turns, I tore my ACL in half, also breaking my tibia, and tearing my LCL. I was not prepared for how NTN worked. On a side note, I'm going old man here now by saying, for me as bad as the limiting nature of old trad confines were back in the 80's, what is at least equally bad today is the confines of making tele gear that can also backcounty. Build one or build the other. But be honest industry... Most people may dream about being BC slayers, but in reality most are resort folks. And in resort is where most people ski and see skiing, and that is where the gear can most evolve and regain traction. One can ski pow on tongue depressors. All the binding MFGs make a toe that can free the heel like AT. And lightweight boots with sucky padding are now the only game in town. The field is saturated with crap, LT gear. Focus on building resort gear for resort ripping. Please save yourselves from yourselves otherwise telemark will continue to fade into the stupid novelty of mono-boarding, which would be sad in that mono-boarding is and was never a highly capable way of skiing, whereas telemark actually is.

A great insightful perspective. It is when, where, and how they learned to telemark. Me, leather boots and 3pins on Rossi Descents. I still love the duckbill feel, bend, flex.The sensation and feel of the turn that we love to make. I ski 22 Designs AXLs and BD 01's and still 2x a month go back to leather and lace just for fun. As for boots, I do not have a Scarpa foot... Garmonts fit perfectly, and now they are gone and reinvented as Scott. They don't fit nor feel the same. Different toe box width and different plastic compounds that do not flex the way that Garmonts did. It is like the manufacturers foretell their own doom by saying that Telemark is dead and NTN is the ONLY way to go if you still insist on bending a knee. I hate that. There are a fair amount of skiers like myself that love the duckbill and would be happy to buy new if there was some choices and tech. improvements that work. Don't get me started on color choice, which hasn't changed in years...decades.

I rocked the scarpa bumble bees and the G3 Targas for 10 years, on a bunch of different skis. I really missed them when I switched over to NTN but now, after 10 winters I wouldn't go back. Thanks for helping us geek out on tele!

I love this. I love the positive vibes. I do wish the made ntn bindings that had a more neutral feel. Or more adjustable pivot points. I am still planning to go ntn though for my resort setup .

Like where you are coming from...and FYI...I am always shopping for boots, binding and skis. Keep reading... (I have probably 7-8 sets of skis 3 of which I use regularly the others are more specialized or sentimental keepsakes ) Perspective... started skiing (alpine and XC) at 12 in early 70's In the late 80's started telly on leather and karhu XCD and XCD Extremes (205cm) Best pow lines ever was on used up 185 Elan Comprex S slalom racing skis I cobbed up with bare rottafella chilis 3 pins using long term borrowed Asolo Extreme leather boots with alpine boot upper cuffs duct taped to them. Memories...My body...simply can't do that athletic style anymore. Now I ski 22 Designs vice on fat Saloman Czars 115mm, 178cm skis (amazing skis) and a variety of other modern skis with Volie hard wires and releases or older hammerheads...I got my old Asolo Extreme ++ yet but I have been using my BD Push (in walk mode now) since I bought them in late 2000's. I have been only on telly gear since the early 90's I am in my 60's now and I basically only do telemark turns when my body allows...I do mostly parallel on telly gear now with telly turns mixed in. Midwest skiiing mostly with lots of west trips in the past... Been skiing mostly at Mt. Bohemia for last decade in the UP of MI and a few west trips here and there. Mt. Bohemia is all natural, mostly steep, lots of traversing and hikes through powder glades to access lines...and some snowboard rutted, steep glades, natural half pipe open gullies and open mogul runs. Lots of telly skiers at MB. My age and knees prevent me some fully utilizing the telly so I modded to a free heel alpine style, very condensed, curtsy stance, almost parallel, heel comes up but just a little. I don't even think about it it just happens. I also have been moving to shorter, fatter skis 110-120mm wide, my next purchase: 164 cm or less, smeary rocker pow skis with simple light voile binding and rigging with ski crampon for the short uphill hikes in and around Mount Bohemia. I think skins are cumbersome for short stints on hike out trails. I think the crampons that click on and off fast would work better and I would waste less energy on the short climbs and when breaking trail to fresh stashes. ON edit: Oh...and I don't really care what people think of my skiing, how I ski, what I look like, or how much I ski. I don't have much ski time left and I am not going to waste it on crappy conditions or trying to impress. I quest for powder and fresh tracks. If I can get a couple three freshies in the morning I am good...I go until my legs get wobbly and my wind gets short...which comes sooner rather than later these recent years. So I am out to purchase my last set of gear this coming spring (close out deals only, thank you) P.S. come to Mount Bohemia if it's a pow day, I'm probably there.

Honestly most of those I know who do telemark are primarily back country skiers. It’s simply a more useful technique if you have back country skis than something like Alpine which would require fancy bindings that lock your heels down. Hell I learned Telemark on very basic cross country skis back in the day. Pretty crap ones at that. I also question how comfortable alpine bindings and boots would be on many day cross mountain trek. Telemark could so easily lean into this market of people who would gladly have equipment great for backcountry and downhill skiing. In fact Rottefella as a Norwegian company where cross and backcountry skiing is a national pastime has a leg up in this regard.

I have about 8 sets of Targas -- all parts combined. They're still easy enough to find used on Marketplace, Craigslist etc.. Biggest problem is cables rusted solid into the cartridges or ready to snap from wear and rust. I broke 4 cables last season. So I just bought a new pair of Switchbacks. Haven't decided which skis to mount them on yet.

I'm running Axls and my old Scarpa T1s (black and gray mid 2000s vintage) on a pair of K2 108s as my every day Tele ski (I have AT and Alpine gear as well). I've been hoping to upgrade to NTN for several years but I'm a size 13 shoe and the boot makers still make sizes for me in 75MM but not in NTN. I ski about 60 days a year and use my Tele gear when I only have a couple of hours to ski for that day (I'm older and really don't have more than 3 hours of Tele turns in my legs before I get a little dangerous). I'm not so worried about the Axls but when the Scarpa's fail, I have no idea what I'm going to do. I really wish that the boot makers would expand their molds to cover all of the sizes that they cover in 75MM. Maybe it will take the retirement of 75MM for this to happen. Cheers.

I don't have industry experience, but in many industries R&D has at least some link to Marketing and Sales that influences what gets worked on. I would think if the Marketing and Sales folks don't see a certain level of likely payback then R&D will be directed to focus on something that promises better financial results. I started tele around the same time as you, Chilis on Atomic ARC SLs (yeah, I know) when it was mostly hippies. Honestly a lot of tele skiers I know are still like that; $20 work gloves from Tractor Supply and stuff. The "If you build it they will come" school of Marketing is not effective on these skiers - they would be much happier if you just started building G3 replacement parts again, so I get why Mktg & Sales would be inclined to focus more on something like AT. I know a ton of alpine skiers who do a full upgrade at least every 2 years and don't care how much it costs, if I was running a business that's who I would focus on too. So the answer is; just start building G3 cables again (LOL)

According to rumors of rumors it'll cost Scarpa the entire tele boot market to retool into manufacturing a brand new tele boot. The market is so small that noone can afford the manufacturing spool up.

Great vid Josh, been loving the youtube content keep it up!

that was super insightful. I just listened to the out of collective with tele colo talking about the lack of money being the issue. I thought this was a great rebuttal. without being a retailer my view point is pretty skewed to the 10 tele skiers beside myself I know. thanks for putting a different argument out there.

Add me to the “want to spend money” side. With only one year of tele under my belt, I now have a long list of bindings and skis I want to buy over the upcoming seasons. If I could afford to, I’d buy them all this season so I can compare and contrast. Unfortunately, it will take four or five seasons, but it’s gonna happen!

I admire your passion, enthusiasm, perspective and fair balance. Nicely done.🙂

Josh, do you have statistics on worldwide sale of Telemark gear from 1990 to today? I just don't see as many Telemarkers these days. I finally went to NTN at the resort or sidecountry, but still use old Scarpa T3's with new liners, Switchback bindings, and 88 mm skis for true backcountry skiing. I would like to see a lightweight boot similar to the T3, but with stronger buckles, better liners, and the ability to lock the cuff in a forward position. Goal is a good setup for long distance touring, but still capable of peak descents and hiking a few miles to the snowline and scrambling over talus. NTN doesn't work well for that and they don't make T3's any more.

I would like to see Freeheel Life move up to being a tele boot and/or binding OEM. I am thinking the first prototype should be low-cuff NTN boot (Like a T4, but NTN) and an NTN binding that 'feels' like the Targa G3.

I skid Targas for a long time. 10 tears behind the tech. Only considering NTN recently. Love tele and have had an awesome time. Kick ass your way!

The NTN platform is so powerful, I can't imagine going back to a G3 Targa. Even back in the day, I preferred the BD01 because it put more power to the ski with the coils routed under the boot. But that's just my opinion. I care that you tele!

A strong tele binding is essential, its not about the tech its about the feeling .. started skiing on timber Norge ski.s in 76,,, telemarking in 79. when the composite leather boots came available...they provided so much control....but it made reverting to the old gear very hard

I am learning Telemark on some black diamond skis and g3 targa bindings... This year I decided I'll upgrade to åsnes skis and I want to get meidjos! Can't wait for the season to start! Btw... What boots would you suggest?

I’m on 75mm and I don’t know why I would buy new NTN stuff, if it’s not broken I will stay on 75 because I love the feeling and even if my equipment break I will look for use 75

Well said-sure is a feeling we're chasing and it's bound to adapt over time. As someone who's been on everything from the targa's to hammerheads alllll the way to NTN...change is good. Skiing is an expensive sport in general...it's not like alpine setup's are cheaper so why do we all complain so much?

Couldn't agree with you more! My local shops are always trying to convince me to go AT. What kind of customer service is that? I currently own (meaning spent money on) without the benefit of any kind of demo because shops wont do it, the Lynx, Meidjo, and Outlaw X. None even comes close to what I am looking for in a binding and all in fact prohibit what I am capable of on skis. So far I am finding the entire duckbutt type family of products to be terrible and I blame the chief of Scarpa USA. He is not and has never been a TELE skier. He comes to the world as an Alpine skier who tele'd "for the backcountry". As a result the products produced by the R&D of Black Diamond/Scarpa work into his desire for a boot he "could do both with" have produced the NTN duckbut boot and binding combos of today. If I wanted to lock my heel down, Id alpine. Im still trying hard to find a "modern" binding that is worth sticking with but so far it's been a lot of $ and no success.

I ski a 3 buckle garmont syner-g boot and a voile switchback binding. Is there an ntn boot-binding combo out there that would give me the same lightweight touring ability and neutral flex?

Great talk

I want to spend money! On new G3 Targas 😢😢😢 I also just realized my comment on the other video contributed to this video😮

Please build aftermarket cables and heel levers. G3's are the best

The renaissance of the tele skier brought with it a ‘lone wolf’ attitude that defers against being a flock sheep… bit more of a free mind to compliment the free heel. Doesn’t matter if they’re bucking the alpine industry, or an established tele marketing campaign. Tele skiers want to earn their turns… just the same, I demand the industry to _earn_ my business.

Waiting for “FHL protector of the turn bindings” 🍿

I would love some leather telemark ski boots, big well-built downhill versions. Anyone wanna invest in a leather ski boot company specifically for telemark skiing?

Do I want to replace my T2’s (I’ve had at least 5 pairs)?…NO! Will I have to at some time in the future?…Of course; I break EVERYTHING eventually! Will I be able to get any type of new tele boot?…No; since it seems that none of the latest-and-greatest high tech boots come in my size!(31). Besides, I’ve spent years perfecting my style with the boot/binding/feel I’m used to…at my age I don’t want to start learning over again with a whole different feel via NTN or tech toes

I'm 67, I've been Telamark since 1989 , but have owned Telemark gear since 1980. I was really glad when a beafier (Plastic boot) came out , along with the upgraded cable bindings! It really "upped" my game. RE: Newer gear; I feel priced out , (senior skier) + I look at the new NTN gear and see a lot of moving parts, and wonder what happens when something (a part) breaks in the BC ... then my only option is to hike out on broken gear... My G3s have proven Bomb Proof over 10 years and I carry spare equipment and I know how to disassemble and repair in the field. I admit that I will be forced to "upgrade" at some point, because my boots (T 2s) are wearing out... and it is difficult finding a decent (3 pin) replacement. Thanks for listening gtw

Those who don't evolve, face extinction. Today's NTN-tech is the bomb! (except for the weight and range-of-motion of the boots....)

There's no money in telemark for large equipment manufacturers. Reverse engineer the targa cable and make them yourself under the bluebird brand. Possibly the cartridges could be 3d printed. It's a simple design. Hire some creative shop rats with an interest in design and help pay tuition for a 2 year course in CAD design. Theres a market for spare parts. The right kid will figure it out. Best, Muns

I mean telemark skiing does look smooth. But it is really for people that don't do anything except go down the mountain, and typical Alpine skiing turns are getting boring to them. The younger crowd is busy blasting down the same hills backwards, doing tricks and such. You would never catch me in a pair of these, probably would get mangled If I crashed doing what I do and those things didn't detach!! Maybe I am just not educated enough and they do detach so my legs don't snap off when I crash doing some crazy stuff! But again like I said, maybe they don't have to detach If you're only going down the hill running the same straight line to get your technique better