108 year pregnancy. Hell on earth.

The mother's spirit actually does go into her child when she is pregnant. Feanor drained his mother. Usually, the mothers are busy raising their child and recovering from the drain, which is one reason why elves take so long to procreate. But unfortunately in Feanor's case, he drained his mother so much that she was unable to recover and died. It takes a long time to heal and recover from things even in Valinor. Like thousands of years. Elves also don't marry and most certainly do not have children during times of war. In rare cases where elves do marry during war, they forsake tradition and do a very quick vow and bind themselves. But they wait to have children until it is safe to do so. Since pregnancy is very hard on the mother especially with her spirit going into her child, it would be too dangerous during times that would risk their lives and their child's. (Also, elves die easily of a broken heart, so the death of a mother and especially a child would be too much). In LOTR, it was during a time of war, which would make since why there are no children around. In the Hobbit, they're probably there, but since the story is focused somewhere else, there is really no need to add children in. Another thing to factor in, by the time of third age, the elves were fading. The magic and power that kept them strong was pretty much gone. They had to start leaving for the Undying Lands. This could possibly have dramatically reduced the number of children being born since they didn't have enough strength and will to do so.

Considering the nature of elven marriage, Eol forcing Aredhel to marry him sounds like sacrilege. And the act of crime too.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lore explanation is that the elven children are kept in the most protected areas. Due to their low reproductive rate, i am sure losing children would likely be a catastrophic thing to happen. likely, unlike the adults, the children don't have the option to come back or something

Elves are immortal, except for violent death. Procreation would've quickly led to a population explosion.

It’s also just a statistical problem: if humans live to roughly 100, then (very roughly) 10% of humans should be under 10. But if elves live to, say, 10 thousand years old, then only one-tenth of 1% of elves would be under 10. Elf children are just statistically more rare than human children.

So, basically, the elves are us before the ´fall’.

I think the reason there are no elven children is linked to the issue of the elves fading while men grow stronger. Perhaps they're not having kids anymore at all, and that's part of the problem. They no longer have any desire to create new life in Middle-Earth, as their souls are drawn irrevocably to the West. Or maybe they even can't... some design of the Valar to bring an end to gather them all back to Valinor.

I always thought that the elves forewent with bearing children since the beginning of the third age because of their wanting to return to Valinor and that the world had grown too bitter for them to ever want to raise a family is such a world of dispair. A lot of the elves at the end of the third age were survivors of war of the previous ages and would not want to go to another war, thus their reluctance in the last war of Middle-Earth was fought almost entirely of Men, except when defending their homelands. I don't know if that was my own belief or that was implicit in Tolkien's writings.

I spent my life studying the culture of tolkiens elves and this is 100% accurate! Well done!!

The elven marriage is beautiful, and a symbol of its true meaning.

When I thought about the question the first thing that came to mind was the time of the elves was ending so no children had been born. I would think that if the higher powers were telling me that it was time to come home, not allowing more children to be born would be a sign.

Apparently there are exceptions to the marriage rules. The Dark Elf Eol "took" Turgon's sister, Aredhel when she stumbled into his region

They’re probably playing with the Ent wives in an epic game of hide and seek.

Elrond was a half elf half human child, all grown up. But I think it was mentioned that they were leaving Middle Earth at the time of the war of the one ring. Maybe even by Bilbo’s time they had been leaving or secluding themselves from Middle Earth. Maybe by the time of Frodo the children had been sent away. And even though they were not mentioned by Tolkien there may well have been some children in the Wood Elf kingdom and Lothlorien. Tolkien never said they did not exist there.

So elves have the same gestation period as a elephant or a whale. I don't think I could handle being pregnant that long.

well, elves just "happen" to fall in love and marry appropriately according to their own social standing - even Eol was a kinsman of Thingol - you can have "inter-racial" marriages among elves but you never see "inter-rank" ones - nobility only ever marries nobility... high-nobility only marries high-nobility - but we are told by the text that elves marry only "for love" so this happening is depicted as "purely coincidental" - that they repeatedly "just happen" to marry their 2nd or 3rd cousins of similar social standing...

Just imagine how adorable Legolas must have been as a little elf. (Like the physical comparison to a human 5 yr old)

Elf lifesycle is actually pretty interesting

That was interesting and I enjoyed learning this about the elves. I hadn't thought about where the kids were, but it's nice to have an idea now.

Judging by trouble caused by young Galadriel and young Elrond, I understand the hesitancy to have elf children.

Human woman has finite number of eggs, and therefore around like 50 she basically cannot have more children (men can theoretically have children till their death). So elven woman probably has the same issue here. She just probably has periods not every month but like every 10 years or so. Elves from Witcher franchise has this problem, that only young elves can have children.

I just absolutely love Tolkien’s elven lore. I could read and listen and learn about them for hours. The rich culture, dignity, beauty I just can’t get enough!

Very interesting! Thank you for sharing 💖

The elven way solves many societal problems. Introduced some too. But the strong family is strong.

My understanding was that Arwen was the last elf born in middle earth.

As you are using Laws and Customs*, Elves seem to be considered 'mature' at 50 years, though some might not attain full growth until 100 ("Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would afterwards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown."). Should also note that these 'years' seem to refer to the Valian or Tree Years, which are 9.586 Sun years. The much longer pregnancy lengths in the various essays in NoMe seem to have been abandoned in favour of a 'normal' length pregnancy (up to one (solar) year). The 'Cycles of Life' don't really seem to fit with L&C. *In later essays as published in Nature of Middle-earth and in Vinyar Tengwar Tolkien has different lengths of time for becoming an adult, some much longer ( nearly 3000 years), others include about 216-288 years, 72 years and 24 years (sun years).

Finwe married twice, first to Miriel, with whom he fathered Feanor. Then he married Indis, with whom he fathered Fingolfin and Finarfin.

So basically elf marriage is like Biblical marriage.

This was beautiful. I can see how LOTR elves are seen as pure creatures of light. They really are.

Then that is the kind of marriage I want. Glad to know that there were are elf children.

Arwen was the last Elvin child born which is why they referred to her as the Evening Star!!! 🤠👍

Sometimes I forget just HOW christian Tolkien was and then I remember about elf marriage xD

but to be honest elrond look much older than arwen thranduil looks more mature than legolas

Because he didn't WRITE them into the story... that's why.

If the time of the Elves was ending, did that effect their instinct to have or avoid having children?

Hey, have you read any of Robert E. Howard's works like Conan, Kull, or Kane?

Pretty much the only races where children are seen in LotR or The Hobbit are human and hobbit. Elves, orcs, dwarves, ents, etc. have children but they’re not in any of the places where the main characters go during the stories.

So what of Arwen and Aragorn's children? What happens with half-elves?

I'm a writer and I want to quote Tolkien in my book, and it would be fair use but I'm still afraid of the Tolkien estate's lawyers. How do youtubers like yourself get to quote copyrighted material (hell, even Tolkien's name is copyrighted) and not get sued? Is the estate more reasonable than I expected?

very interesting

Where did you get this information, if I may ask?

If you are giving birth to an immortal baby you would need to give part of your soul.

What are your sources for this? I have heard nothing except for the marriages of Finwë.

Elves do not make children in times of war. From the discussion about the gift of men, between Feanor and Andreth.

Maybe Saruman sneaked into their nurseries, and stole the elf babies. To grow them up into lumberjacks.

What are the sources for this? Does Tolkien getting into elf boinking somewhere in his letters or are you referencing elven themed bodice-ripping fan fic?

The reason we don't see any elven children is the kind of Elves we are exposed to by Tolkien. We are told about elven lords and ladies, and the other elves in the stories are their servants and courtiers "at work". Even if the servants have children, they will not bring them along when they are performing their duties. We are told more about 5 elves: Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Celeborn and Legolas. Legolas is the heir to Thranduil's throne and although he is much older than the rest of the Fellowship (except Gandalf), he's on a younger side of elves and hasn't married yet. Galadriel is the oldest, born in Valinor before the fall of the Two Trees. She and Celeborn had a child long long ago. Elrond is the twin brother of Elros, the first king of Numenor and Aragorn's very distant ancestor. He was born in the First Age. His wife was Galadriel and Celeborn's only daughter, but she died a long time ago at the hands of orcs. Elrond's three children, sons Elrohir and Elladan as well as daughter Arwen are all grown up. Elrohir and Elladan are busy keeping Rivendell safe and working together with the Rangers to protect the Northern lands. They haven't had time for romance. And we all know Arwen is bethrothed to Aragorn but is not allowed to marry a mortal unless he's the King of both Gondor and Arnor. In other words, we meet elven lords and ladies who are grandparents or parents of grown children. And the younger generation elves we get to know have a role to play in the war against Sauron and are postponing marriage because of it.

Elasar is shown several times

Here's a pet peeve: calling Elrond a half elf and half human. In fact, he had 2 fully human ancestors, Beren and Tuor. His mother Elwing had a half human father, Dior son of Beren, and his father was Tuor the human. So he did not have 50% elvish blood.

All the Elf children grew up during the first and second ages Elves are also immortal so there’s no real need to have more children when yours will live forever unless they’re physically killed.

The only, only, only reason I can imagine anybody might have a right to downvote this video is if they've found a lore-factual error. Not only is the material beautiful, the presentation of this was as well. @InkandFantasy I am still new / early / young in my Tolkien exploration. I do not know if it would be feasible or possible; but with these videos, is it possible to have a subtitle or footnote or something so a reference to the chapter/title of the source material is visible, please?

It’s also said that the longer their intercourse is the more dangerous it is in various ways. Tolkien was quite detailed.

Funny how everyone is saying how beautiful elven marriage is -- the act of intimacy _constituting_ a life-long marriage bond, commitment for life, divorce not optional, _delight_ in creating and raising children -- and yet I wonder how many here would simultaneously scoff at Christians for teaching and striving for the exact same thing, in every aspect. Interestinnnnggg.

It also seemed like many of the elves were not married, and not young either.

Didn't Tolkien write that Arwen was the last elven child born in Middle Earth?

Hold on. No remarriage? What? Didn't Feanor have half-siblings? After his mother died, Finwe (his dad) remarried. You can google Finwe's family tree. There's a whole bit about this in the simarillion.

I'm not going to believe that THE SONS OF FEANOR did not experience lust...

Since there were also half elves, how fast/slow did they grow? And at what age did they mature?

Because they're all grown-up elves. And haven't had any children yet. But Arwen and Aragorn have a son together, she sees a glimpse of the future. Where she sees a child with the same necklace she gave Aragorn. And then she understands the drawing. And returns to her father and asks him to have the sword forged again.

Feanor drained his mother, but apparently his wifey didnt have that problem.

I wish that our real world marriages be like that.

I can hear someone yell 'how dare you!!' in background about this sacred marriage bound and whole hearted family concepts of Tolkien elves.

What do you mean children born outside of marriage are "removed from the equation"?

This was mind fuckery for me, every thing is slow & fast at the same time & it makes no sense lol

Tolkien's christian fundmentalism seeping through so hard in this one 😮‍💨

No elf children, no dwarf children, no dwarf women.....

I assumed something like this, but good to know

Here's a contradiction. Elurin and Elured were 9 years old when they were left to die helplessly in the forest by the sons of Feanor. You say that an elf had the wisdom of human adult by 5. Hence, they were not helpless at all as of the year 509. They should have survived.

And token doesn't mention anything about the birth cycle of elves ?

They’re already on the ships.

They also have no farms... I'm starting to understand why there are no children.

So that’s what happened in GTA.

Do elven mothers of 4 suddenly turn ginger?

Imagine being an elf and your love is unrequited 😅

The matter of elf children birth and birth rate are not really portrayed are they However In the Hobbit Tolkien describes elves of different stature in Rivendale, from rather tall to rather short which appears to be part of their DNA not age or development but these height differences are not pursued other than mentioned in passing. A 12 month pregnancy is one thing its the growth rate that seems more concerning. I mean even elves have to poop and if it takes 4 - 12 years or more to get baby elves potty trained instead of two for humans that could be a long time changing diapers❤ Also immortality would naturally have to be part of their DNA and not a magic ability so to me it doesn't make sense an immortal elf would become mortal by marrying a mortal. Immortality in reality is most likely by the STEM of the double helix, in artificial cloning the Stem gets cut in half so the cloned lives half as long. Of the Stem were much longer say 10 times as long(1000 year expectancy length) and connected to the double helix at both ends to form a loop that would be immortal DNA. For the story of Adam & Eve they ate a fruit which would have contained a cascading enzyme that cut the loop cord on one side leaving a single end attached to the double helix with a 1000 year length life expectancy. Soooo it just follows science that for elves to be immortal it has to be a looped stem DNA, so to become mortal would mean a potion making dna mortal

Aragorn s Son is half elven and human

_"if the elves can live __5:54__ forever and they have already lived for __5:56__ tens of thousands of years by the time __5:57__ of our story and the only time you you __5:59__ can tell them AP part is within their __6:01__ first century of existence"_ The problem here is, it presumes no elven child born the last 100 years?

Why did the elves even come to Earth or Middle Earth anyway ? Never understood that

Uhm, I missed this part of the book....

Eöl and Aredhel. She left him.

👍👍👍❤❤❤💍💍💍

qustion: what are the shapes of snow flakes in middle earth?

So Tolkien made elves as the perfect catholics. Big surprise!

I am not liking this video because there are only 665 likes. Even after refresh. Edit: someone unliked. Thanks, anonymous friend.

If you read the Silmilrian and they are daughters and sons.

Doesn't sound like any other elves I know of

I umm its explained that they stopped having children because they were leaving. And I'm curious where you got all these details. Tolkien didn't write that. Tolkien didn't write about reproduction, or consumption and certainly not pregnancy They live for thousands years and only have one or 2 children . They are not eternal.they have very long lived.

If we made divorce way more difficult then maybe people would be more careful with the partner they choose. Be intentional. Work on yourself. Heal your inner wounds. Chase after your own greatest potential and happiness. Then and only then begin to search for your Arwen or Aragorn

How do Orcs compare?

Elves are strange

The time of the Elves in Middle Earth was ending. There would be no point in having children in the Lord of the Rings period. 😉

Only a devoted catholic like Tolkien could make elf sex be so complicated

So basically, married elves have no free will, and therefore never get the idea of loving anyone else than who they already married with.

Elf are basicly perfect humans

Do people realize that none of this is real?

what marriage was supposed to be like period Edit: lol stupid 304s mad as hell😅😅😅