There is no good way to market a game when the initial learning experience is an endless suffering.

Has anyone noticed that whenever geckos ggst avatar lies down it looks like it's being stomped on by a shoe

Personally I love that this video covers multiple aspects of the topic. Feels like too often people try to simplify it to one thing is the reason when there’s usually more to it than that.

Straight up, fighting games aren't more popular because the only way to get better at them is to lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose and lose horribly each time. Then after losing 50 times someone says you should go into training mode and just practice the same move over and over and over and over against a CPU training dummy and even then you will likely still lose horribly. And over the course of all those losses you gain absolutely nothing in-game. Then also people that are already in it speak basically an entire different language when it comes to describing moves, then you're told if really want to be good you need to be able to read and remember exact frames of moves for a roster of like 20-30 characters. None of that shit is fun or enticing at all. Atleast that's why I don't play them personally.

The main reason I believe fighting games aren't mainstream (among many others) is because they are very personal. All the games you mentioned League, Valorant & Fortnite are all team based games that you play with friends. With FG's, when you're in the ring it's a 1V1 between two opposing players, nobody else. Competitive games for most are already stressful, having a team or friends makes it somewhat easier (so you can blame them instead lmao) so when you lose in a FG and you're told the problem is YOU, most lose confidence and label the genre as "too hard" when usually you aren't terrible, your opponent is just superior. By not having mainstream appeal we therefore don't reach a greater audience outside of our own most of the time. You have to search for the community, you won't just stumble across it, so if you don't have any incentive to give FG's a chance you most likely never will as you won't go searching. A paradox of sorts fr. The next few years however are going to be interesting for sure. With Project L, we're tapping into one of the world's largest competitive and just gaming communities in general. League has brand name, people who don't even play it are massively aware of it and some even like something else related to it within it's expanded media, meaning PL will have broader mainstream appeal even outside of LoL/Riot players. More eyes will be on FG's than ever thought possible in an era with Rollback & Crossplay and many other great or better FG's on the market with numerous content creators/streamers and a strong & passionate community. When PL releases, it'll be now or never.

People get tired of throwing the same punch and kick 100 times so they move on to the next game. The entry level is way too high for these games in terms of skill so people naturally don’t give a shit.

For me from where i am the term "fgc" is legit non existent, because well nobody play fighting games. I sadly have to play on pretty high pings and half of my motivation is just dead at this point. I legit think that they have nailed the fighting part of fighting games but they still have no clue about the game part. There is also absolutely no incentive for someone who well doesn't wanna play ranked or tower to just become some god fighting game player. I take starcraft2 as an example here, it is an insanely difficult game and very competitive but is still somehow alive. It's only and only because the majority of players are NOT ranked competitive players but they play the casual but fun as fuck mode called Co-op commanders, and that is how you keep the game alive. There is nothing to do for someone who does not want to compete in fighting games, they don't have cosmetic or any other incentive to well keep playing. It's also sad that they just as of recent have started taking online a tad bit more seriously while the rest of the game are made to be played ONLINE primarily. They treat online as just a feature and not as THE mode to play and grind in. They suck balls at marketing too cause well they believe that just magically their game will reach the audience, they don't take the best sources to get there game out there and those are content creators and streamers. There are also nothing like seasonal content or anything like that, just plain old character dlcs which is not even for everyone (i still don't like a single dlc character from strive). I still humbly believe that the fgc barely grows, players just migrate from one game to another. Developers also are disconnected with what the modern audience want and are a decade behind in mindset.

It seems weird that in a video about mainstream appeal of fighting games, other than a single throw away comment, you wouldn't discuss Super Smash Bros, i.e.. by far the most mainstream fighting game for the past 20 years. It's certainly very different from traditional fighting games, so much so that it's existence required the creation of the distinction between "platform fighter" and "traditional fighter", but there is a reason that it has succeeded to an extent that other fighting games haven't, and it isn't just the Nintendo IP (although that does help a lot). The number 1 factor for mainstream appeal is bad-player appeal; ie. can a player with little skill meaningfully play your game. As such, accessibility is extremely important for mainstream appeal, especially the types of accessibility that aren't related to actual game difficulty. The most important part of accessibility, imo, is *how easy it is to learn* the basics, how much time and effort does it take to learn the absolute bare minimum such that you can actually play the game. Not bare minimum as in understanding the mechanics and strategy, but that you know how to move your character and how to achieve the most basic objectives, like how to attack or shoot your opponent, how to search for loot, or how to hit a ball into a goal. Understanding the difference between different attacks, or guns, or strategies is simply irrelevant for a new player. Just teach them the minimum as fast as possible so that you can actually put them into a game. A new player is like a newborn baby, they have to learn how to control their legs and stand before they can even be concerned with something that we might consider trivial, like walking. Most mainstream competitive games are shooters. The bare minimum knowledge to play those games is "these buttons/stick make you move, the mouse/other-stick controls the camera, and this button shoots". And that's literally all the information you need to just be able to *start* playing. Obviously there are usually more buttons that do important stuff, but a completely new player probably doesn't need to know about those until they've at least gotten the hang of moving and shooting. Non-shooter mainstream games still have a similar degree of simplicity. A game like rocket league is just "here's the movement stick/buttons, and then here's the accelerate, boost, and jump buttons", learn how to move around first, then figure out the important stuff later. Most fighting games are not just hard games, but hard to learn games as well. You usually have 4-6 attack buttons, many dozens of moves, command inputs (which are character specific to make things worse), and a relatively complex blocking system, all added on to games which historically have really bad or no tutorials and few resources in game to learn those most basic of controls and mechanics. It's a massive hurdle to overcome for a brand new player. It's why I gave up on Tekken 7 within a few days, but also why I ended up sticking with Strive; the difference that a well made tutorial aimed at complete noobs makes can not be overstated. Smash is by far the most accessible fighting game I've ever played, containing one of the largest differences between skill floor and ceiling of any game I know of. The entire game can be played with just a joystick (or even D-Pad) and 3 buttons. Characters have ~20 moves each, but because they are all directional inputs using one of the 2 buttons, it is extremely easy to learn how to use all of them, and also makes it really easy to learn how to apply moves you haven't used before. It's really just a matter of "press the direction you want to attack in, and press the attack button". A completely new player doesn't need to know the distinction between tilts and smash attacks and aerials, they can get the bare minimum knowledge to play the game by just attacking in a direction. The bare minimum knowledge is so simple, that a player can get into a game as fast as possible so that they can actually start to develop a deeper knowledge of the moves and mechanics. The amount of time between starting a game completely clueless, and being able to play the game by yourself, even really poorly is, in my opinion, the #1 goal of accessibility. It's not to make the gameplay easier. It's to make the game easier to play.

I think a big problem is just how hard it is to get into. Like you have to pay 60 dollars for a game of a genre you don't really play. Then you have to hope that the game has an active playerbase. You have to basically get a controller because sure, you can play on keyboard but it sucks. Especially if you are new to the genre. And even after all that, the most you can do is play the same mode online and hope you don't get matched up against some dude with 1000 games on his character who has relentlessly studied the frame data for years and beats the living hell out of you with you not getting to do anything. It just makes you want to quit instanty. If you don't have friends to play fighting games with its just though

Something I think might be missing from the conversation is single-player content. I realize fighting games are inherently a multiplayer genre, but so are shooters, the prime-time esports genre. Games like Halo and Splatoon have insanely fun campaigns to play through that take the pressure off of trying to be the very best, instead immersing yourself in the amazing world of the game. Personally, I love the story modes of Brawl, Tekken, and Soul Calibur because I got to experience the stories of the badass characters that got me interested in the game in the first place. I got to have a hand in the fight between Heihachi and his devil-spawn Kazuya, I got to see Meta Knight dueling Marth, I got to play through Darth Vader's story where he dual-wields Soul Edge and Soul Calibur into the Star Wars universe. Crazy stories/campaigns that are boosted by already fun game-play are what make me break-out my wallet. The community... eh, not so much.

I dont think there is a better way to phrase the sense of community fighting games have than how spanish youtuber joseju did. Translated, he said "the people in this gave do rematches way more than others. I think this is because this community is the one that loves the raw game the most" or something along those lines in his "ponte a jugar juegos de lucha" video. Which if you know spanish or can deal with the autosubs, watch it.

Simple answer: if you’re not good at fighting games, you’re not gonna enjoy them. Eventually, you’ll play something else. Since many are not, it has lost its luster and is still a popular genre amongst its community, but it’s smaller than back in the day when you would ask your friend’s parents if they could spend the night over so y’all could play games all night. It’s just not like that any longer. Shooting games are less complex to get a kill, thus, they’re gonna attract people who are skilled and unskilled players. They also allow you to potentially hack to be even better, but you cannot hack a fighting game where you have to beat your opponent & there is no way to substitute what it takes. RPG’s allow almost anyone a story experience and a chance for the player to win because ultimately that is the point, especially if it is linear like God of War games used to be, before the 2018 & new Ragnorok which is a bit more open world, strategy, etc.

Simple In fighting games, you almost exclusively compete, but rarely if ever toy In most mainstream games, you can almost always toy, and sometimes you can compete Most regular people see games as toys to play with rather than competitions to sweat over

As much as I like fighting games, the community is kind of full of nobheads who scream at every minor or major change and are quick to give the stink eye to any new fighting game just trying to find its place. Hard for devs to get in, hard for new players to get in.

Another aspect as to why fighting games are not mainstream is that they cost a lot. I've been interested in GGST since 2021, but I only finally bought the game recently. Reason? I'm hesitant to invest a bunch of money into a game where I may not even enjoy it, therefore putting it below my other buy list instead. Brawlhalla is an example of a mainstream fighting game, but that game also had a lot of problems with the devs and community therefore you can see that player base dwindle unlike a few years ago.

14:07 This only works if all of your friends are into a specific fighting game. Convincing a single dabbler to jump on a game they aren't familiar with just to get smoked is a TALL task. Let alone an entire group.

because people pickup a fighting game, lose once or twice then give up

Fighting games rarely offer value for money unless you know going in that you're going to spend a lot of time online. Tekken 7 and Strive are very guilty of this the single player experience is pathetic. SF5 got better eventually, The arcade ladders and survival mode changes added plenty of value but the damage was done by then. Fighting game developers need to realise that not everyone wants to go online and get smashed there have to be other ways to play. I don't gel with netherealms fighting mechanics but the sheer amount of stuff to do is why they sell so well. I think SF6 is looking to emulate that while also having better social features with the battle hub.

I've wanted to take fighting games seriously and to improve but it's a rough mental barrier. Since there's usually nothing to earn in game, so the initial "lose constantly until good is obtained" feels even worse. I also have anxiety because I hate the idea of joining a community when I am not already decent. Feels like I'd waste everyone's time because the experienced player gains nothing from beating me constantly. I'd like to try but social anxiety sucks

3:58 right off the bat you don't understand; when I'm playing a fighting game, I don't want to do homework, I don't care for auto combos that make it easy, I want to LEARN the mechanics AND have it where the learning curve isn't a WALL but a CURVE. Why was Neon White fun? A good learning curve! In that game when I lost/ failed to do good I was able to at least LEARN and not have it be a wall for the mistakes I was dealing with!

They are, if you consider Smash Bros a fighting game. It's a massive mainstream hit. The thing is, you would have drastically change how fighting games are and how they work in order to appeal to a mainstream audience. Smash is a great blueprint for how to do that, but a lot of FGC folks don't really consider Smash a fighting game in the same way they do Street Fighter or Guilty Gear. I think FGC people don't really *want* fighting games to be mainstream, because the times they have been able to break into the mainstream, people insist that "isn't a fighting game." Most people just don't want to dedicate hundreds and hundreds of hours to a journey of self-improvement (which is essentially what playing fighting games is), and there's nothing wrong with that. What does it matter if it's niche or not? So long as you're passionate about it and enjoy playing them, why does it matter? Not everything is for everyone.

In my mind, a large and mostly understated issue is that arcade fighting games are an antiquated genre. Fighting games never adapted or changed to cater to the console and PC market in a way that other genres did. They fundamentally are just arcade games ported to consoles, even in their more modern forms. With rare exceptions, they have a single core experience in mind and the game's design and features are all meant to feed into that core experience. In contrast with other genres, especially FPS games, fighting games don't have nearly the same level of variety in content or ways to enjoy them. And that is the biggest thing that changed with the jump from arcades to consoles.

Most people already spend 40 + hours a week doing repetitive tasks at work for money, when they are done most people don't want to invest another 40 + hours learning to make a dude punch better for not money. The most main stream you will get is anime fighters where the point is to play it for a week, or two with watching people do super moves.

Whenever most people discuss this topic they alwasy just end on "presumed difficulty from the wider public" and so its interesting to see the genre more directly compared to contemporary nultiplayer games that do way better in terms of raw player numbers. Weaker marketing is definitely a factor. Another could be a rough experience in the past. I personally had had a rough experience playing smash with my friends and losing so often it felt bad I was terrified of playing traditional fighters until I eventually decided to try the genre after hearing bridget's strive theme and relating to it so much, but I was still scared of spending the money of a full game on strive from fear I'd not enjoy it, dbfz was on sale at the time so I bought that and ended up enjoying it and now here I am entering beginner tournaments and aiming to consistently hit top 8 in strive, having people jump that hurdle whether its presumed or based on a bad experience they already had is a big deal.

Some of my best memories were hanging out at a buddies house with like 4 of my friends and we all had a tournament on whatever fighting games we had on hand. I had forgotten what we played cause this was years ago, and back when Strive released, an old friend showed it to me, and immediately the nostalgia flooded in, because back when I was but a wee lad, we were playing Guilty Gear XX. If my buddy hadn’t sent me the link to the Strive reveal trailer, I would’ve never gotten back into Guilty Gear. Tldr; FG’s need to step up their marketing cause holy shit I missed out on 20 years of Guilty Gear games

As someone that tried Strive, played for 46 hours, and the BBCF for 28, the only real problem is that you're just supposed to know everything about the game to play it. Everyone saying "you don't need to know the game to have fun" definitely hasn't felt the utter hopelessness of just being stuck in the corner with every button press doing absolutely nothing. Fighting games are just that good at making people hopeless, and sadly nothing can change that.

No mention of sales or player count? What is your definition of mainstream? This video lacks research.

14:07 most of my coworkers know what Street Fighter VI is besides the old people and guess what? None of them want to play it! Marketing doesn't magically = sales. The mobile games that hook players in, the older people like my step dad not your average youngster! Even NSFW mobile games this is the case! Can good marketing work? Of course but it's not the only factor; having something that's turn your brain off though is the kind of game the mobile games attract. Actual good gameplay though? Not the first thought. Who are you trying to appeal to and why would x group want to play your game?

passive aggressive toxicity is not for everybody

One thing that I noticed is that most people do not want to lose and it be their own fault. If you play rocket league, LOL, or valorant, it's possible to get carried as long as you aren't terrible. In a fighting game, if you get smacked, it is your own fault and there is no way to avoid the inevitable ass whooping unless the internet connection fails. Another thing is that, while fighting games aren't any harder to learn that other games, the process of learning a fighting game can be absolutely boring. You have to either spend a lot of time in training mode alone or play against other people are suffer until you get better. In fortnite, you can learn while having fun on a team, you don't have to suffer alone.

That part about the marketing is veeeery true, can't remember the last time I saw an ad on yt for a fighting game, fighting games deserve more love

I find it funny how Moba players will complain about mastering combos, but then turn around and spend hundreds of hours looking at character to item interactions.

Depending on if you consider for honour a fighting game or not. They had the war map thing. That was quite cool

I’ve tried to get a few of my friends that don’t play fighting games to try a few of them out. The ones that have little to 0 interest just aren’t interested in the prospect of 2 characters on a 2d plane on a small stage. They play a little bit, I explain some mechanics but those mechanics arent interesting in the first place because the games come off as archaic or cheap (especially when they’re used to playing AAA games on a regular basis). Then I have some friends that wanted to try to get into them but don’t stick with them. I think that’s because for a lot of people the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Most people are more interested in immersion, adventure, ease of access, GUNS, sports or a power fantasy.

Very good video that covers a lot more things rather than just "fighting games". Great job Gekko.

The part about a game where teams or clans fight each other and receive a reward at the end of the week was done in a fg. It was mkx. You would pick a clan and fight for global points and at the end of the week, you would get some rewards like a clan fatality.

The reason I get to play most games are because I have seen people playing these games on KZfaq of my country, and I don't mean ads, I mean people having fun with the game, Minecraft, League of Legends, Rocket League, Celeste, Skyrim, but for fighting games in specifically* I never saw a popular KZfaqr or a fighting game on a popular video or livestream in my country.

I’ve been playing fighting games for about 30 year. Strive made me officially walk away from the genre recently. I love fighting games, but it’s the genre I put the most time into and I still struggle to make any impact.

I love that idea about the club battles and ranks and leaderboards. That would be super dope, and it would be so cool to be fighting against people for rank that's not JUST your own.

Ait I'm a couple weeks late but to add: Imo the actual biggest issue with most fighting games is how hard it is to... I guess perform in them? And i dont mean being at a competitive or even semi-ok level, but in general. For example, games you mentioned, like Valorant or Fortnite, to do very basic you just move your aim reticle on enemy and press left mouse. In LoL you just right-click on red untill it dies. In most fighting games, however, to do your char's moves, you need fairly precise inputs that, in addition, might be even harder depending on what input device you using. Like, me for example. I like concept of fighting games - reads, predictions n shit. I have something like 1.5k hours in For Honor, if you count it as fighting game. However, each time i try "real" fighting game, i just... Stop. Cuz even if I'd be able to correctly predict opponent's move, I can't properly input 6246S, not on MnK or even conventional gamepad. And I'm not about to break my fingers and dedicate 40 hours to do so. Look, Smash is pretty mainstream, for that very same reason. It's easy to start.

If we’re calling Persona 5 a mainstream game then I think it could be said that fighting games are mainstream too. Fighting games not being F2P is probably the biggest hurdle a fighting game thats focused on multiplayer has. Fighting games made the most money in the arcade days of the ‘90s when the price of admission was .25¢. If you’re free, you’re going to instantly have more people playing the game online. I mean for one thing the game doesn’t cost anything, but also being free-to-play means everyone on consoles can play online for free too; where if it’s a $60 game those console players are also going to have to pay for whatever their systems online multiplayer is. Move inputs don’t exactly help either. I’m sure anyone that plays fighting games have seen there friends that don’t play fighting games bounce off them when they can’t do stuff, or consistently do stuff. It’s probably no big surprise that the Smash Bros series has been the best selling fighting game since it came out...and that’s with the N64 and the GameCube (especially the GameCube) not exactly being the best of sellers. It is interesting to see Capcom doing the Modern Controls thing with Street Fighter 6, not really surprising given how much Smash Bros. Ultimate outpaced every fighting game on the market, but interesting nonetheless. I am a little surprised it took them this long; hell, back when they announced Marvel vs Capcom 3, I figured the Special Button in that game would be used like Modern Controls in SF6. When it comes to retail releases I think a total lack of real proper single player content like a normal single player game has hurts fighting games too. Like you can be huge and not have any single player at all, but then you’ve got to be F2P. Otherwise, even if the multiplayer is the big draw like with Call of Duty and the old Halo games, you still need the single player. The really odd thing about fighting games total lack of single player is fighting games started as games focused on single player. Original Street Fighter is basically a boss rush game, and when the original Street Fighter team went off and made Fatal Fury they still kept that boss rush style but now the game had three playable characters instead of the one of Street Fighter. It’s also weird it’s taken Capcom until Street Fighter 6 to seemingly remember they did big single player things in Alpha 3 and the Rival School games.

The most mainstream thing about fighting games that happened to fighting games is actually Jack-O challenge lol It's the only thing that became so viral, it's even caught on by non gamers, random influencers and celebrities on tiktok and twitter.

If I were to make a fighting game mainstream i would change the casual matchmaking system from a 1v1 personal brawl and done to 10 people mini tournaments; if you lost to one player that's fine, at least you made it somewhat far and you can tag them and fight them in a lobby as much as you'd like if you fancy a revenge or practice, someone dominated the tournament?, The last special event it's a 2v1 battle: where 2d and 3rd tag team the winner. And for the community aspect you can send a request to a player you fought to be your "Rival", you can track their progress, spectate their matches and ask them for a fight anytime you want, you can have multiple rivals at the same time and even endorse them to one another; inside training mode there are custom game modes created by the developers and the community that can be played with friends for fun or to practice with a character

Congrats, I've just bought Strive, played hourse of tutorials and lost 15 matches in a row. I feel empty. Gonna play again tomorrow because of your motivation powers. Good job! Edit: Everything said in this comment is meant to be read in a joking manner. You're good. Keep it up my guy!

Short answer: people don’t like to have to learn and get better I mean they don’t even do that with their real lives why expect them to do that in games

I've been trying to break into the FGC for two years, but I'm too anxious to try and join the community so it's been rough

Aight, I get that I'm late to this Vid, But an Important factor you missed is Ease of Access. The mechanical skill needed to execute "basic" combos and do supers is something that turns many players off, especially when in other games, The most power tools are locked behind good aim at the most and not several complex inputs intentionally difficult to string along

Simple answer: People rather blame others than themselves.

Easy normal people don't like being outsmarted by another person. Basically your in a situation where everyone who's had decent practice time is a boss fight

Because fighting games tend to be competitive and very personal, I always thought it was a good thing fighting games didn't become main stream. After seeing a crowd sing Guilty Gear Strive's Smell of the Game with Daisuke Ishiwatari present in the crowd, I am glad the genre still maintains this underground, grassroots kind of vibe. I I will say the fighting game community and tournaments as a whole have more appeal and reach now then they ever have. I am curious where iut will grow from here. Really good video that covered this multi-faceted topic because it isn't as simple to discuss as it appears.

I started playing Strive (and traditional fighting games in general) about a week ago, and I'm stuck between floors 6 and 7 atm, but I love it so much! and guess how I got introduced to it? tiktoks about bridget and giovanna, and engaging with the community in the comments 😭

The problem fighter games have is that they are 1v1 and pretty straightforward. It's all "see that guy right there? Beat him up." Then you win or you lose. Compare that to the other "competitive" games, which have a lot more players and a lot of things to do that aren't direct competitive combat. You don't have to win an entire round of Fortnite, you just have to get a few kills along the way. You might even just enjoy exploring the map. If Fortnite were boiled down to JUST the "endgame" in which it is you and one other person in a tiny arena trading shots at each other, then far fewer people would play it. Also, in many team based games, there are "less competitive" roles to them, supports and healers, and that isn't to say that being really good at these roles is not important on a pro team or something, but playing casually, there's a lot less pressure to them, so that can also help to expand the audience beyond the "sweaty" players. I think this is also part of the reason why a game like Smash Bros is so successful, because while you can play it at a competitive level, it's also a lot more fun to goof around with, and while you might lose most matches, you can still score a lot of fun KOs along the way.

I know I'm speaking for a lotta casuals when I say this, but if you want to have players enjoy characters outside of internal motivation, *do like Brawl, and make a Good fuckin' Story Mode that doesn't revolve around just 1v1s.* Literally something like a beat-em-up or brawler style that shifts away from the 1v1 aspect helps make casuals get attached to the game and its mechanics more. Players progress through the main level lobbing through countless goons and enemies, allowing for the eventual 1v1 character bossfights to feel more engaging. Plus, having it be sectioned as Level>Bossfight is much better for pacing, as most recent fighting games are just 1v1 character duels that feel like Bossfight after Bossfight after Bossfight, making the story a dull train ride and borderline exhausting by the end. On top of this, this makes the fighting game _have more game in it's game_ so that you have more playtime and experience with said game. I will die on this hill; a fighting game's principles are to make good of mechanics, controls, characters, lobbies, match-making, and rollback. But the story must not, and cannot for the love of god, be just 1v1 after 1v1 after 1v1 until credits roll. Leave that to online, give the "single player" their single player experience.

How do you think price relates to the barrier of entry? A lot of the games you listed are free, making the the barrier of entry pretty low compared to convincing someone to spend $60 on a new game.

Fighting games aren't mainstream because they're not free to play. Casual players aren't interested in a $60 gate for getting their asses beat. It's way easier to swallow repeated beatings when the game is free and you can just walk away. The launch of Multiversus was proof that it can work. The problem is they couldn't retain that audience because they lacked content. Lack of polish and characters/levels made the game get stale QUICK. The battle pass and dailies did nothing to retain people. Most likely, Project L will be the big shift that pushes fighting games more towards the mainstream crowds.

I already told to all FGC on reddit, twitter or etc about this problem & there is 3 reasons the devs need to fix this 1. Fighting Games Was expensive AF: Imagine buying the full game + you need the dlc expansion pack just for playing on it And after finishing the whole story mode then get bored playing it what next ? Installing N*DE mods ?? 2. The gameplay was hard & so frustrated: The lacks of new blood or casuals players for FGC is because the games was designed for them to learn all the combo until they finally got punished on match, if you wanna know that most of fighting games ranked mode & some players always stuck on low rank rather than middle or high rank 3. Need a good, fast & stabble connection internet: FGC already know this they cry so hard to some developers for adding rollback netcode, dual connection, etc.

I think there's some ideas that might not have been included, though perhaps simplistic in and of themselves. 1. Shooters have been standardized for years. Watch someone control an avatar and you know exactly how they're doing it. The tools between different shooters are all very similar. Hit scan? Reticule to face. Actual projectile? Compete against Canadian, UK and US special forces for world longest shots (cool fantasy there, to boot). Everyone know how a gun works. How does a DP work? is it motion or single button? Does it hit in front and behind? does it spin or wiggle? is it flying, or is it grounded? Is it a combo starter or is it a combo ender? Does it have invincibility? Which type of unsee-able invincibility is it? Throw, Air, Full, etc? Which meter is the block gauge, super gauge, comeback or special gauge? Which particle effects mean what? Why is it all diharrea Christmas lights? I just caught Will it Kill and they whole point of the show is that you don't know anything about anything. Do cool shit is the starting point for some players, for everyone else, you might as well be watching static. You can't see the green from the brown, never mind the forest for the trees. 2. Zeitgeist. In the west in general we no longer have the martial art fighting fantasy that many of these games came from. Almost all major developers are Japanese where that long cultural heritage of civil unrest and justice started with martial arts (since often swords and other weapons were illegal to the general populous). Shaolin monks have a lot in common with slaves and Capoeira in that regard. They have Sun Wu Kong, we have Don Quixote. In the west, our civil unrest is predicated on the gun. Warfare is based around the fantasy of the infantryman (though I hope most people realize that's been a dead man's game for a very long time). Like scary movies being a safe way to confront attackers, terrifying events and supernatural opposition, gun games gives everyone a "safe and fun" way to play at the next war. Never mind American propaganda that always needs a boogieman and that war is always just around the corner. Seriously guys, no war and a stable economy, the 90s were amazing. While there have been a few more recent martial arts movie promoting the fantasy, there's like 1 mainstream every few years while there's another infantryman movie every 6 months. Often in the west, we think (at least i certainly do) think street fights are down an dirty scrums. You might know how to throw a punch, but often is in the context multiple vs one. It's a vicious beatdown. While i don't believe any less of eastern violence, pop culture presents as the fantasy expert beats thugs, professional jockey for position with the fancy maneuvering, and many other subtleties I can't explain and don't know because I'm not a trained fighter. Holyfield could wipe the floor with 99% of the planet, but boxing is "just a sport".

One thing I would throw in is FREE2PLAY. Most fighting games are full price titles and will cost you 60bucks. I can try out Geshin or Valorant without that. I download it for free and in case I don't like it, I uninstall it. Also Updates: Valorant gets a new character every 2 months+battle pass, skins, balance patches etc. Of course its easier to design a character with 4 abilities than a fg-character with like 30 moves... There are frequent hooks to go back because there is something new. Strive takes a bit longer, but its "just a char". Balance patches take half a year. And besides that we got a short movie. Mainstream games don't just market for new players but for old players to return as well.

- The devs/pubs are either too cheap or too broke to market them - They have little to no content whether it's singleplayer or multiplayer related - They have poor netcode (not much of an issue now) and/or matchmaking - Their methods of teaching players how to play their game are either boring/unintuitive or nonexistent.

What do you think about letting players play for free, but restricting F2P players to one character? I've heard about some fighting game doing that, but I don't remember the title of the game.

The community never got me into fighting games. I got himself into fighting games. Growing up I always played them on my own. Most of my friends back then didn't play them. They said that fighting games were too hard. Which you forgot to mention in your vid. Which now that i mention it you failed to talk about. Fighting games are harder to play then most games out there due to the complexity of motion inputs and execution. I didn't find a community until I was in college now. They are my best friends. But most of them don't even play anymore unfortunately.

We already have to consider e-sports are still technically a niche. A big thing is of course the fact fighting games are 1v1 and since there's no team to blame, you can't avoid the fact that you might just suck, and fighting games are still considered "hard" even with games like Strive (technically you could say games started getting simplified since MVC2 and "easy" since P4A) have simplified the genre a lot to attract newcomers, and people don't like taking a lot of time to learn something they won't be playing all the time. You need to WANT to be good, instead of naturally getting good, I guess you could say. (Anyway reader, you should go binge all GekkoSquirrel videos, subscribe, and if possible, donate to the patreon!)

1v1 games are uniquely situated to only appeal to a niche group. Same reason SC2 “died” when LoL took off. Ppl just don’t like the stress of losing and knowing it was just bc they suck

i think that a game being competitive is a force pushing *towards* mass appeal, rather than away from it. I'll explain: if you want your game to have a competitive seen, you would want as many people playing it as possible so that you have a large pool of players to draw competitors from, and also because competitive games are by necessity multiplayer games, and multiplayer games are only fun if you have people to play with/against.

I really think that Riot's project L is gonna be a big hit, considering every points from your video, Free to play, Unlockable skins and characters with in game rewards(Long term goals/show off) and potentially huge ID appeal considering the impact LoL had those previous decades. If the gameplay is good the game will have a lot of players.

I'm a casual fighting game player, what got me into the genre was umm... Childhood exposure tbh lol Been playing Street Fighter II and Killer Instinct on my older cousin's SNES since I was 6, kept on playing the odd fighter here and there to this day, I just think they're fun and neat! Would I be a fighting game fan were it not for said childhood exposure though? Umm... Yeah, probably, I've always gravitated towards games that demand skill... I mean, most of the reason why I'm just a casual is cuz I'm too busy being a hardcore rhythm game player lol

everything was spot on but i gotta know what’s the game called at 3:10

whats the dating sim game you show at the start of the video?

Learning the basics of fighting games is mechanically hard because it involves memorising precise button inputs and executing correctly, you won't get far button mashing. Compounded further by every character having different moves and inputs. This means you can't even start playing new without starting a studying session. Most multiplayer games are incredibly easy mechanically. If you can aim and shoot at heads you already know most FPS fundamentals. Moba just learn your role, farm gold safely and play with your team you will be better than 90% of the playerbase. Coupled with lack of casual game modes fighting games are a hard sell.

Because fighting games have a quite rigid play to win meta and a high skill ceiling. A Qcf motion is never going to feel as effortless for people as "I pull trigger and big loud sound of metal pain happen" You can't fuck around in a fighting game like you can in something like a shooter, not to mention there's not really ways to cushion a loss in a fighting game either. Also side note: SF5 has dailies and kind of loot boxes... All of this means fighting games just lack ways to make players feel good in general.

I agree as games like mmo’s have “achievements” you unlock this skin, this item, this title by doing something that usually takes a grind. Fighting games could include this. They could also include special skins, titles, auras, or things like that for perfecting a character, placing in a certain rank in a season, making skins that matched their fav pro player in that game. When I say make a skin like that, I mean I’d say SonicFox won a tournament then the character he used could have a skin available for purchase for the players. Things like this is what keeps people playing WoW and League and many more. A game that I feel is a great example and one that I’ve grown to love is “Sea of Thieves”.

YOMI Hustle seems to help new players with its slower pace and its re-focusing of gameplay on strategy over execution. Another big barrier to entry is having to pay a full price tag for a game you might not even like, in a genre you might not even enjoy. So... here's a wild idea from someone who doesn't play fighting games, but on paper is likely a person who would like them: A free to play mode, with limited movesets, characters, the ability to slow down the game, and the ability to have asymmetrical handicaps. This serves a number of purposes. Firstly, by being free, it gives players a chance to try out the basics of the game, potentially with a friend who wants to get them into the game. Secondly, by limiting the movesets, you focus the game more on fundamentals. It doesn't have to be balanced - that isn't the point of this mode. By limiting the characters, there's less to keep track of - DOTA2 has limited heroes mode for this purpose too, and I would not have learned DOTA2 without it! Thirdly, by slowing down the game it makes actions significantly more clear. It also has a side effect of messing up established players timings as an indirect handicap for experienced friends getting a noob into the game. Imagine doing half speed 1v1s with a handicap against your noob friend, and you start noticing them getting the hang of things so you speed it up on the next one, until they are keeping track of the game at full speed - that's growth! Fourthly, asymmetrical handicaps let you rebalance the match. Maybe an experienced player could set themselves to have only 1hp, so a new player just has to get a single hit off, while the experienced player does their best to play defensively and only do punishes. I've done similar in MOBAs back when I played them, where punishing mistakes when they happened but not forcing errors through pressure helped my inexperienced friends gain skill in laning. As a whole, this will let people try a limited version of the game, one that is easier to get into in terms of execution and memory, without having to justify a purchase, and gives a very frictionless proposition for experienced players to give to a potential new player. Consider a new player to league: 'Hey, this game is free, come try it out. We can just play against bots while you learn the ropes, you don't need to worry about all the fancy stuff, just a low stakes chill experience.' That is a pretty easy suggestion to agree to. Consider a new fighting game player: 'Hey, come pay $60 to play this game where you will suck for hours playing in full stakes matches against vastly more experienced players. I'll help you learn the massive roster, combo list, counters, hey where are you going?' Now consider the following: 'Hey, you know how I keep trying to get you into X? Well you can play this new free mode. We can do some 1v1s, slow the game down to make it easier to see what is going on, and you only need to keep track of a few moves. I promise it's not going to be overwhelming. I can play with a handicap so you just need to get a hit off to win. Yeah, totally free, and if you like it, you can get the full game when you feel like it. Plus the people queuing for it are mostly noobs because the tryhards just play the regular version.' Speaking for myself... I'd consider the latter. It could probably get me into the genre. I think many others would feel the same.

It's a combination of community and the learning curb. It's too time consuming and sometimes it's not worth it for most. The time spent getting good with a character can be spent getting good in your life whether it be exercising, learning a new skill, honing creativity or better yet, learning real life martial arts.

Can someone please tell me what game that is at 3:12?

One of the main reasons is play space. You're confined to a very small play space where the arenas or levels are basically moving pictures. It gets tiring seeing the same thing over and over again, especially when there aren't even many viable characters to choose from. This contrasts with the open worlds of BR for example where there's a lot of stuff going on.

what did u think of the sf6 WWE and SNL ads?

I’ve never been a sponsor before. Neat!

Can someone please tell me what the isometric game he keeps showing is? Really interested to check it out.

What was the game shown at the 46 second mark

Its very easy to break through the barrier. They are just too stupid and stubborn to do it. You have to actually teach new players. Like. Actually. Not trial by fire. Not a tutorial. Actually making learning alone fun and encouraging the community to discuss with newbs about how things are done.

In my case it was the youtube creators that convince me to learn a fighting game and they also help me to understand that is not an impossible task. To be more specific, youtube creators playing and commenting the beta of Guilty Gear Strive hype me a lot to buy the game. The big problem I have right now Is that I don't have the habit of playing the game, even when I enjoy the online experience most of the time, I know that I need a lot of time to git gud but all depend from my self motivation.

This video is amazing 👏🏿

I think fighting games have long periods of intensity and not enough down time. Other competitive games have many seconds or minutes of nothing really happening where tension can build up, but also giving you room to mentally relax and goof around if needed. Even in smash bros, you can do well without being optimal, especially with 3+ players where you can avoid the conflict to reset yourself. Most traditional fighting game require CONSTANT counter play, which is definitely the appeal, but gives little flexibility to actually relax.

I think another issue is cooperative play, the main games I've been playing are game I got into cause I could take on the challenges with my friends not always against. I think if more fighting games had a team mode that would help.

What is the pastel desktop game that he talks about in the beginning of the video? That's Melatonin right?

i still remember back in-early 2000 s India, huge lines on the local arcade parlor for Tekken 3 people would just not stop that culture was insane, that vibe. eminem / linkin park playing.

While systems such as daily challenges and battle passes certainly work for keeping players active, I actually really like fighting games for not having these things. It feels like a massive commitment to spend my hard earned money on a battle pass or a season pass. I often bounce around between different games but if I buy a battle pass or grind challenges (like in YGO Master Duel) I feel like I'm required to spend my free time to grind these games out. Fighting games on the other hand are perfect to just pick up and play on a whim. No true commitment means I get to fully enjoy the game (in my opinion), and relax without the looming threat of missing out on content because a season is ending soon or there's something I want to grind for. I genuinely hope the fighting games don't start incorporating challenges for meaningless in-game currency's or battle passes for cosmetics that make the base characters unrecognizeable.

some things i think more fighting games should have are the king of the hill mode from mortal kombat, 3v3 party battles in dbfz and team battles/special battles in smash or guilty gear isuka. fighting games are best when their 1v1 but they really should have more modes where you can enjoy them as a group.

Great video. We can't ignore, though, that fighting games in general have a steep learning curve for new players. That's one of the main reasons why Super Smash Bros is (and probably will always be)by far the most successful fighting game: it's very acessible to new players since all characters have the same inputs , players don't need to memorize tons of commands to explore and having fun with the game. Most modern fighting games are frustrating for new players. I personally love fighting games and I am always teaching my younger friends and relatives how to play them, but they always give up to the frustration of not being able to perform and memorize the special moves, despite my efforts .

With a huge rise in BR games maybe using the concept of the SF6 where it’s a 3D world and once you engage in combat you go into the actual game might be a fun idea like a survival mode with players instead CPUs

I think the real problem with fighting games is the move to the Internet. When it was arcade cabs or people's home's. You were playing against a smaller pool of people in your neighborhood, at your school, etc. Now when you log in, you're matching against the world. No matter how good you get, the pool around you is shifted to always have you be grinding a never ending mountain of opponents. I think a game that addresses this well is actually Trackmania 2020. In that game, when you race on a map, you see your regional (in the US, a state) rank on the map alongside your country and world ranks along with leaderboards for each. By having these multiple leaderboards, you get to know your opponents and have that local-feeling rivalry of the smaller pool while not sacrificing the infinite mountain for people who are looking for global play.

My friend had only played platform fighters and I had gotten into the Guilty Gear Strive character themes and he came across them and loved them. He wanted to get the game because he thought Bridget was cool so we both got the game and he loves it. He's not bad either for having 10 minutes of training in Smash Ultimate where I taught him Ryu's motion inputs.

I think one other thing is that most people deep in the FGC don't realize is that the community shit-talk can be incredibly intimidating or even off-putting to an outsider. I have a small group of friends in a private Discord server and they love Fighting Games, but they hate the outward facing communities (Twitter mostly). Whenever the topic comes up its usually Smash drama, Strive players shitting on MBTL/DNF Duel, or major influencers dunking on each other/some Joe Schmoe account and they usually comment something to the effect of "Just play your fucking game". From someone who quit League 8 years ago because the in-game chat is constant backseat gaming from people roleplaying as therapist Gordon Ramsey, I have to agree as most FGC chatter on social media brings back those vibes. Now I play Team Fortress 2 which arguably has an even worse community, but by the time I saw the rotten side I was already deep into the game and had found other communities who weren't out to ruin each other over random internet slights. Once you find that community that hooks you into the game, it becomes really easy to shut out the high school tier drama that's always circulating the web. This is a really awful analogy, but it's like how it's easier to shut out the sounds of your parents fighting when you're playing games with a sibling or a friend cause implicitly you know you got each other's backs, where as alone you're always keeping eyes and ears out and not really concentrating on the game. If fighting games had ways for you to foster communities in-game rather than through the drama hell-hole that is Twitter and public Discord servers, be that through clubs/guilds, ways for you to curate the social experience, and/or simply just being able to befriend random players you find in FT3 matchmaking it'd go a long ways to keep people invested.

Yes, my favourite topic! And I got nothing to add. :)

Too mature to be mainstream, and as niche as being into your soulmate.

10:00 "It's inviting" Fuck no it isnt, whenever a new player dares to touch the multiplayer they get brutalized by more experienced players that can smell a beginner at the press of an input, this is considered normal and the way it should be on the FGC. I was wondering if you were going to address the number one thing that I think makes new people just bounce off fighting games, but of course you dont, the FGC doesnt ever consider it a problem at all.

Does anyone know what is the game shown at 0:13?

Someone should make a joke game where every first hit from any angle can lead into a 100 to 0 combo, but the execution and length of each combo is painfully complicated (like thirty UMK3/MKT Brutalities in a row at minimum) and they all last so long that the round timer will zero out well before they're done. Only snag there is that the round doesn't end even if the timer hits 0 as long as a combo is still ongoing. For the ultimate comedy, make it a free online game with two lobbies. The main lobby is the one everyone starts in, but if someone gets you 100 to 0 with a complete combo then you get banned and can only play in the second lobby. To escape the second lobby and return to the main lobby you must 100 to 0 somebody else and claim your freedom that way, but since nobody can choose to go to the second lobby by choice you have to wait for someone else to get sent there. I guess if you wanted to have mercy you could include an AI opponent that players in the second lobby can fight like once a week or something and if they 100 to 0 it then they get to escape, but even that would kind of hamper the joke.

Fighting games can just be so dam cool. I honestly wish i could play them more now that im starting to get into more traditional kinds of fighters (as-in not smash bros, of which introduced me to the concept in itself) and i have absolutely loved my time playing gg strive with my best friend. Now im not at a level in which i would consider by any means even competent, i can hardly string a combo together yet, but i just find them so exhilarating and fun. I also absolutely love cool visuals and guilty gear REALLY scratches that itch. Just wish i wasnt so broke so i could actually get it for myself :,I

For me, I love character development, complex storylines, customization, and large in depth world building. These aren’t really things fighting games focus on and that is fine, it’s just not the kind of game that keeps me long term.