Dorn: "Ugh, paperwork." Guilliman: "Ooh! Paperwork!"

About Rogal Dorns grief after the Heresy, there is such a great line in the novel "Apocalypse". A primaris Imperial Fist is asked in current time to describe meeting his gene-father by a Ravenguard marine. He thinks something like; "How to describe a Demigod run down so fare as to almost feel like an ordinary man. The Stone of the Praetorian finally eroded away under the guild of failing his Emperor."

Probably Dorn was offered it but whatever he saw on the Vengeful Spirit…broke him, vengeance being the only thing on his mind, imagine seeing what happened on the Vengeful Spirit, The Emperor, Horus & Sanguinius as well as he probably feels he’s more suited to Overall command, he sees what Roboute did to Macragge and the 500 worlds and sees that the job of Lord Commander is not just warfare or building but administration.

The siege probably broke dorn. He wanted to put everything back after it was done but with the emperor broken, the angel dead and him seeing the true horror that his traitor brothers fell to I think it broke something in him. Roboute tagging in makes sense, the master of defence did his job now the master of statecraft needs to do his.

People keep digging at Guilliman for creating Empirium Secundus yet the Emperor knew he was doing it, and was ok with it as it made sense to set up so that if Terra did fall there was a base of operations to begin a fight back.

Guilliman is the nerdy kid that everyone wants for their group assignment bc they do most of the work

Yeah, Guilliman was the better choice. He's the one with the Emperor's administrative skills. Running an imperium was always his thing. Not that the others couldn't do it, but their real interests seem to lie elsewhere.

I just think of Rogal Dorns position as the pretorian of Terra,not the whole imperium.he is best suited to guard and defend the walls around holy Terra and let Guilliman run the Imperium etc

I imagine Corax, Russ, and Kahn would not only not want the position but would actually call "not it."

As an extra: Guilleman was the only Primarch with a non-devastated Legion...

I can see why Gullimen is more effective. He reminds me of Ieyasu Tokugawa for a bit, a slow and steady but effective one. Plus he put a lot in logistics that maintain the crusade effort

I think the Chapter System as originally envisioned by Guilliman was perfectly fine and arguably a net positive over the Legions Imagine of Huron Blackheart had a whole Legion at his command. Imagine if the Astartes Praeces were a Legion with the Sons of Malice at the head. Imagine how many relatively minor conflicts would have been **much more major** if the offending Astartes had been one of the Legions.

I think g man was right for the job since he’s the perfect mix of an idealist and politician with a clear aptitude for logistics

Dorn's primary problem is that he is probably the least flexible of all the Primarchs with the possible exception of Pert. Guilliman, while not exactly a radical, is far more willing to change if something isn't working. Like when he did all those battle simulations against Corax; Corax was big on using Moritats and irregulars while Guilliman though the whole concept was stupid. But after Corax won their first three rounds, Guilliman decided that he was in fact being the stupid one and altered his tactics. He beat Corax in every simulation afterwards. The same is true for his politics. When Guilliman's father Konor died for instance, it was due to betrayal from people in his Senate who disliked his reforms. So when Guilliman came back and canned the High Lords who he knew were going to be a problem, he set things up so that the Hexarchy Crisis would occur and then immediately be resolved, all because something like that had already happened to him.

The fact that Guillaman was the best lawmaker and administrator is what makes him rival Dorn as my favourite Primarch. A rare reason for a rare choice of favourite Primarch lol

I think come the book covering it it'll be more Dorn's decision honestly. In recent years they've been writing Gulliman as more reluctant and actively trying to curb his arrogance. While you see it in Dark Imperium, it's most obvious in his last big book Ruinstorm. He intentionally waits to hear from Sanguinius and the Lion, hesitates, tries to understand what he doesn't comprehend and follow the lead where it seems helpful. Conversely, Dorn has been shown to be vocal enough in the Crusade to directly criticize Ferrus, Perturabo, Corax, Curse and the Siege is just this harrowing experience that's got him to the end of his rope. I doubt he would want to see that damn planet ever again when the battle ends. Rather than the stereotype that Guilliman was swanning around, I think more likely is he was working on administration frantically to not feel bad for being too late and knowing he's best at writing, and Dorn is likewise desperate to atone by fighting honestly and not giving orders from a building, never be stuck commanding others like his brothers(one dying/almost dying at Lion's Gate and one dying on the Vengeful Spirit) and risking them dying ever again.

I'm going to disagree that splitting the Legions was a mistake. During the Great Crusade the Imperium was expanding and conquering. It needed forces that could roll over almost any opponent without excessive losses (as percentage of fighting strength) and in this they worked very well (stand fast the Rangdan and the campaign against Orks that culminated with the Ullanor Triumph). After the Scouring the strategic situation shifted to one of holding ground already secured, small campaigns in hostile territory more as spoiler ops and counter-attacking on a local basis. For this you need smaller forces with smaller logistical footprints to strike quickly over much shorter (strategic) distances. Chapters are better forces for that purpose. I would concede that larger nodal forces would make sense too (say forces 5-10 thousand strong and maybe two or three per Segmentum) but then its the political issue of having very strong forces that can potentially cause another Heresy. As to the right decision, yes. Guilliman was a better administrator and ultimately that is what is required to run an empire that in the majority is in peacetime. Most Imperial worlds have not actually suffered any kind of conflict other than riots/pirate raids in millennia. A few are in a constant state of war true, but that's why you need hundreds or thousands of peaceful worlds to supply the logistics to feed those war zones. Dorn's ideal peacetime roll would have been visiting the borders and consolidating the defences, or being the inspector of the regional armed forces to ensure their readiness is sufficient. Russ, The Lion and Jagahatai would have been best served as the commanders of large forces either counter-attacking or carrying out the spoiler ops I mentioned. Vulkan (and Ferrus had he lived) would have been best suited for coordinating the Imperium's manufacturing (civilian as well as military) and R&D- such as it is. Corax would have best served as a hunter beyond the Imperial borders similar to how the Carcharodons Astra operate. Sanguinius (had he lived) would best have served as Imperial Regent, partially ceremonial, partially figurehead, and being the prime leader in the event of a REALLY big threat (War of the Beast of the bigger Black Crusades for example).

No one could have done a better job rebuilding the imperium than guilliman

I think the chapters were a good idea barring GW's number scaling problem. The imperium at the end of the heresy and scouring was just as broken as Terra. If it was to endure to even attempt to rebuild RG switched it from an animal with a few teeth and claws and plates, to a sponge. Filled with endless crystal teeth to support and deter predators from inside and out. It is designed for attrition, to keep problems small scale and slow threats while prosperous sectors could grow and then be leveraged against problems. If RG hadn't got stabbed I think the Imperium would have been fine given 1000 years. Even without him his organization ensured the Imperium weathered the storm for 10k.

Dorn is not exactly charismatic or flexible. I would say Guilliman is more aware of the political and logistical challenges of the job. Dorn is very talented, but the greatest challenge the Imperium has is its a huge, resource rich, logistical nightmare. The ideal would be Guilliman to enhance the whole and Dorn reinforced the weakest links.

Master of defence or a Master of logistics? Well, you arent being directly assaulted anymore. That, and gulliman did just pull dorn out of the iron warriors trap alive, so...

I think after the heresy and the iron cage debacle, if Dorn returns he will be a much more tempered and dangerous, than many of his brothers. While Perturbo got a power up via the ruinous powers, Dorn gets the power up through introspection and knowing himself.

I have a theory it maybe something along the lines of Dorn being to exhausted/broken from the whole ordeal to carry the title any longer and looks to guilliman to take over, guilliman has always mentioned how he never wants to be centre of attention eg: when horus was picked as Warmaster he agreed, he didn't become jealous. So I see Dorn looking to guilliman for aid and to take the title so Dorn can focus on what plagues his mind: vengeance and redemption

Guilliman was the best choice out of the options left for sure. All of the primarchs were affected by the Emperor's fall and the heresy. Russ and the Lion were both a bit of a mess like Dorn and I really can't see Corax, Vulkan or Jaghatai even wanting the position. Sanguinius and Ferrus dead by that point so that's not really an option. Most of them end up disappearing quick too. I think even the codex was a good idea at the time at least especially since I don't know if a full legion can be trusted to anyone other than their primarch(aside from exceptions like Dante, Grimnar and Calgar). Yes I know a primarch can cause the legion to turn but they are also really good at keeping them in line too.

Rho I love listening to you talk about lore. You really do my favorite sci-if universe the justice and you are definitely one of my favorite creators. You helped a loyal subscriber through some tuff times, and I’ll remain so till the end times lol. Just some love from a supporter from across the pond. Keep up the great work good sir and thanks thank you.

I'd initially assume that Dorn was injured in the final battles and also emotionally ruined by his 'failure.' Plus, Guilliman is the man in charge of the largest and most capable force in the field at the time and allowing Dorn, the Fists and the Blood Angels to stand sown for a minute is only fair. Also, Dorn was a defender, which is what Terra needed during the Heresy, but Guilliman is a builder and rebellion quasher, which is what the mission of the Scouring is.

Nice fresh topic for video. Well done, Wolf Lord. Also, Dorn is maybe my favorite loyalist Primarch. I wish I there was some hope, however small, from GW that one day Dorn might return. But I do not think anyone over the age of 12 will live long enough to see a return of Dorn, if it were to happen.

I don't think creation of Codex Astartes was a mistake. With a body as large as the Imperium decentralisation of power is nessesery. Just look how well centralisation work for Administratum...

Big E stuck on the toilet.. Holding back the tides of Chaos with an expression of agony gets an entirely new meaning now...

I'll stick to what Ulvurul Heoroth in Prospero Burns describes as each of the surviving loyalist Primarch's Wyrds: One to be the heir to the Emperor's Throne: Guilliman One to fortify the defences of the Imperium: Dorn

Dont forget that Guilliman also gave instructions for the creation of the Primaris, maby the Emperor forsaw that, and planed for the greater game, for when Reboute would return he would need Legion's to reestablish the status que, and i dont think most of the other Primarchs would have the forsight to plan that long ahead or even dare to tamper with the Astartes geenseed, or seeing it as heresy.

I was always took it that Rogal Dorn was just left mentally shattered and didn't want the job nor was in the best place to do it.

I think its less that Dorn broke, but rather it was guilt. He felt like he failed, and thus that he couldn't trust himself with the job anymore.

Out of the surviving 5 active loyalist primarchs I think only really Guilliman and Dorn had the skills to keep the Imperium from collapsing and out of them Dorn was too plagued with guilt to do the job, so that really only left Guilliman capable of the feat it also helped that he also had the backing of the largest legion and a power base in Ultramar that was relatively untouched by the heresy. And yes I think breaking the legions down was the correct choice not so much because of the threat of rebellion but because the needs of man kind had changed, the damage the heresy had caused pretty much destroyed the Imperiums ability to conduct expansion on a large scale and the the legions where designed to be a big unwieldy sledge hammer ment for conquest what the Imperium needed after the Heresy was a rapid reaction defence force to hold it togethor.

Dorn loses control after the Heresy. Hes had to have so much controlled during the siege. With his grief after the Emperor being interred in the Throne, he loses himself in the pursuit of vengeance.

I think being able to competently run an Imperium made of 1 million worlds is a far greater ability than being the best fighter. My greatest son is a pretty accurate description! However I would much rather see Rogal Dorn return instead of the Lion, the Imperium would benefit the most from the Guilliman-Dorn duo.

Gulliman understands the politics and as much as people may not like it that is skill needed to rebuild the Imperium.

I think there of the many contrasts between the two the biggest is that Guilliman is an emperor in his own right. By that I mean that he is deeply attached to his people and ruling the the utmost of his capabilities to bring a better life for them. I think the reason Dorn was given the reigns for the siege is that he was without question the strongest defender. He would build walls and guard them if it meant spending every piece of blood and gristle he had to maintain the Emperor’s life. Guilliman, while fighting valiantly to the bitter end would be broken by the utter ceaseless sacrifice that would have been necessary to hold the palace. It’s also ironic because Dorn also finally experienced the utter horror of Perturabo’s normal existence and probably has more in common with his brother than he ever thought possible.

I agree, Dorn though he's one of the most stone faced of his brothers, even the most emotionless person will have their breaking point. The weight of failing his loyal Brothers, their father, the Imperium and ultimately humanity could've broken Dorn's calm façade. Though that's not to say Roboute wouldn't have felt failure on his end, having arrived too late to participate in defending the Throne world, with the possibility of being accused of cowardice from his remaining Brothers and their sons.

This was a very good analysis of the lore. Thank you.

The insight of how Dorn feels in the Saturnine novel is so good… im a fan of him cuz of that book. And when it comes to the strongest legion.. who else but the 1st! For the lion for the emprah!

Dorn: do you need a HAND brother?

I think at that point Guilliman was the best option, the next best would be Dorn, but at that point Dorn the warrior was spent from all the fighting/sacrifice and Rogal the man was dead.

Probably because Dorn had a mental breakdown, and Guilliman had a much larger army....

Dorn was so broken they could only find his hand

i believe Dorn was something beyond furious

In regard to the index astaries and the breaking up of the legions, both Dorn and papa smurf were right. It's just Gman was right after the heresy, Dorn was right 10,000 years later.

If Dorn came back and were Lord Commander but Guilliman remained Imperial Regent that would be the best combination imo!

Oh man! Excited for this chapter war!!! Let's get it!

Dorn is ostensibly an defensive force commander. Where as Gulliman is a more all rounder. He also commanded by far the largest loyalist legion remaining commanded by The Emperor

I think there's really 2 reasons (parts?) to the answer. The first being that with a majority of the traitors fleeing into the eye of Terror and Down himself on fairly shaky ground when it comes to his understanding of all things warp related, I believe Rogal simply had more confidence in Roboute's abilities to deal with any situation that may spring up. The 2nd part of the answer being more of an emotional component, (and in line with your opinion Rho) as after the events on the Venegeful Spirit, and Dorn's absence during them, he simply couldn't bring himself to leave his father at (at least for a time) deciding instead to stay at the Palace on Terra and safeguard the Emperor.

Guilliman is the better peacetime leader, no doubt. In a major war, you would want Dorn or The Lion in charge. To break it down a step further, you'd want The Lion on offense and Dorn on defense. Imagine all 3 could rule the Imperium, in a Triumvirate if you will, each focusing on the role they excel at...

Roboute Guilliman had one of the best military records. Maybe 2nd to Johnson. As well as all the work he did to leave territories in good shape. Not overly dissimilar too Lorgar. He did better than Lorgar did in a fraction of the time. While still being a top 3 commander in overall conquest. Roboute often times gets heavily overlooked just because he was not flashy or a self absorbed idiot. Lord commander isn't just about the military capability during a fight. It's also the bureaucracy, politics, and administrative duties. Roboute was the better overall at the whole package.

Guillman was late because of the storms, not because of imperium secundus -_-" the three legions simply COULDNT leave sooner.

Of course he's the best choice, he's the only one that displays a talent for administration which is what would be needed after the Heresy warfare. Yeah you have to rebuild, but you need to do it with a good plan.

"sounds like he is going to the bathroom." Hurry it up corpse-Emperor! I don't have all day!

Man... I hope Valrak sees this.....✊

I don't buy that Dorn "broke". I do believe that, like his son Lysander, he would not believe himself worthy considering the outcome of the Solar War. Dorn trusts Roboute, even if they may disagree, Rogal does not think Guilliman will fail, but would pursue things his own way. Dorn was needed to rebuild the Terra and the palace, if he would tolerate doing it. He said that he wanted to get out and fight during Saturnine. We know that eventually he would fall doing just that. Guilliman was the right choice; enterprising, systematic, farsighted, and not beaten down by the Verdun of the Siege of Terra.

Since the Emp and Sanny were two Psykers and he witnessed their death / near death I am surprised Dorn going off on one isn’t also explained by a Psychic backlash akin to what the BA’s still experience.

7:15 Basically, Guilliman is a Starcraft player. =D

Thinking beyond the battle or campaign makes him the best general, Going to put this out there..... Amongst the primarchs there is often a rule of 2 for what each primarch was intended for post crusade. But I feel its clear that Roboute was always intended as the regent in the emperor's absence

I really enjoyed that.

Didnt Guilliman stick around post Heresy to get shit put back together while Dorn Leeroyed Jenkinsed after the traitors? I feel that is a pretty valid reason to give him the job.

The Seige of Terra books have given me a new level of respect for Rogal Dorn. He's one of the best Primarchs to me...but I'm still not painting yellow.

Guiliman is the Emperor’s persona of pragmatism, administration and statesmanship.

Guilliman is a better Regent as he is a great diplomat. However Lion should have been the wasmaster to attack everyone if he didn't go missing as he was hands down the best tactical master of all the Primarch's as shown by his record

But Rho you need to cover every fact about Magnus the Red's glorious golden nipple horns

Abolishing the legions was just formalizing what was going to happen regardless. I'm not sure why people act like the situation after the heresy was somehow the same as before it. Force structures need to adapt to political and operational realties and the reality post heresy wasn't anything like the great crusade. The legions had some advantages in terms of being able to apply highly concentrated force, which is useful for offensive operations across a limited front or for rapidly overwhelming stubborn strongpoints (worlds), although even here you can debate the advantages. Overly large single formations tend to become unwieldly and impossible to control effectively anyway. The legions were really already at that point. This can easily be seen in how their nominal leaders often had little real idea what was going on within various parts of them as seen by the festering of rebellion and taboo culture within many of them. Even during the crusade the legions were almost always sub-divided and engaged multiple independent operations anyway and many of them had semi or effectively permanent sub-units with distinct cultures and operational roles. Whatever virtues they might have had though effectively evaporated after the heresy. The Imperium now at least nominally controlled vast swathes of space, but it had to actually hold that space. The threat when this debate occurred was not really any monolithic death blow, but from a thousand cuts. The strongest unit in the universe is absolutely useless if it’s not where it’s needed. To cover the now vast imperium with marine support across all the places that needed it was going to call for many moderately sized formations capable of independent operation, not a single monolithic sledgehammer. It was purely a question of administrative arrangement; one could have perhaps accomplished this by forming scores of effectively permanent ‘task forces’ under the nominal umbrella of the parent legion, but given the realities of travel and interstellar communication within 40k this would be a symbolic gesture at most. Once afield in the Imperium there would be effectively no way to exert even a pretense of centralized command or control over the task forces. Even basing them in any central location would be foolish and counterproductive; they would need to be dispersed into separate garrisons to be positioned such that they could have any real chance to respond in time to local threats. Is all of this sounding kind of familiar? And it isn’t like this administrative sub-division somehow prevents the massing of larger formations if the situation calls for it. We have multiple examples in canon where uniquely concentrated and singular threats resulted in concentrations of tens of thousands of marines in a war zone. These assembled forces might be marginally less capable of cohesive action then an old legion, but then again if they legions had been segmented up administratively into dozens or hundreds of task forces that often operated away from each other for decades or centuries at a time, would they do much better? All I see in the breaking up of the Legions was formalizing what was going to occur regardless, with the added bonus of the formalized decentralization limiting the ability of any one charismatic and corrupted leader to do damage. Which given the tons of examples we have down through canon of large segments of or even entire chapters going rouge (to say nothing of the Heresy itself)we can judge to hardly be an ideal concern. You can maybe debate the exact size, I do think he made them somewhat too small in terms of being able to absorb casualties and continue to operate effectively (I would have gone with a roughly brigade sized force), but I can see how the heresy experience might prompt an over correction in terms of paranoia about concentrating too many marines under one leader. Regardless Legion fanboys that think that keeping them nominally together as some kind of shambolic gesture would've made any difference in how the Imperium developed are delusional. TLDR Guilliman didn't really do much wrong, his bothers were just stuck up on how things were and refused to see how things were going to BE.

my main assumption is the fact that Rogal can rebuild the imperium's defenses and buildings but he is lacking in many other areas needed to rebuild after a civil war. He would universally suck at rebuilding faith in the structure of the politics, emperor, as well as reintegrating many non-afflicted areas who may have been loyal to the traitors who were under the impression that the emperor had really done something wrong.

wish on the tabletop, guilliman's true talents would be something that we could use

Rogal is probably too busy punishing himself in pain glove to care... for the moment

So the nightmarish bureaucractic Imperium that met the returned Guilliman is arguably the result of what he himself laid out. No wonder he was so upset with the Imperium. Guilliman probably now has a nagging feeling that Dorn's Imperium would probably have stood the test of time, where his seemingly degraded without him there.

Because dorn to put is simply had the social skills of a block of granite He was uncomfortable uncompromising honest to a fault and incapable of understanding social interaction He was so direct and honest in his answers and way of conduct himself that he has a good share of responsibility in turning traitors perturabo(that he declared was unable to breach one of dorn fortress. Keep in mind dorn believed that to be true but he was unable to understand that in that way he was pissing of one of his brothers) and kurze( by berating him over his visions told in confidence to fulgrim and that fulgrim discussed with dorn to decide how to deal the situation. Dorn marched directly o kurze and as any sensible man in front of a mentally troubled person he accused and verbally assault him causing kurze to 1) losing trust in fulgrim2) to be forced in an angle under scrutiny rather than be helped by his brothers 3) attacking dorn to escape) Note that this was before the heresy After the emperor/Horus kerfuflle shit hit the proverbial fan and for e was totally consumed by his desire of revenge over traitors especially perturabo To be considered also that during the heresy dorn was the first primarch to be warned (by garro) of Horus (and mortarion fulgrim and angron too) rebellion He was put in charge of the loyalist side because the emperor was a little busy with the imperial webway clusterfuck caused by magnus In the end this strategic genius confronted with a situation of unclear alliance decided to launch 3 sure loyalist legions in a meat grinder Because 1)the night lords were already borderline renegades and it was only a matter of time before they would be censured for their excess Also dorn was literally attacked by kurze before all of that Why he trusted an unstable madman is anyone guess 2) the iron warriors had already destroyed their homeplanet and their primarch was in a bitter feud with dorn 3) the alpha legion is so secretive that anyone trusting them in any capacity is a madman by definition 4) the words bearers where condemned by the emperor himself as religious fanatics and where ashamed in front of the entire imperium Their primarch was the very first candidate for rebellion out of resentment and disillusion every sane person would have suspect immediately Dorn was so direct and unable to understand basic human nature that he failed to detect and suspect about 4 of his brothers and condemned 3 legion to be practically destroyed with very few survivors A man like that is better to stay away from central conmand

It's the difference between winning a war and winning a peace.

He should have left dorns legion intact. Moved him to a "fortress imperial" roll building worlds to survive the return of the traitors or any other threat. Exactly as they were built for...

I suspect Dorn gets Super depressed after events of the siege and him wanting to die is why he throw himself into iron cage to kill Perturabo. Guilliman’s and ultramarines intervening is the turning point.

Dorn is a builder and a maintainer. He isn't as taltented at the day to day administration as Guilliman is, doesnt mean he is bad but its not his forte or passion. He would be better at physically rebuilding it and defending it it rather than the day to running of it. Guilliman however thrives in that. If anything they would be partners bringing out the best of eachother.

"I dont like paperwork" - Rogal Dorn probably

PTSD that’s why. Dorn was no longer fit to command the imperium. Is it any wonder after doing what he had to do and seeing the carnage onboard the Vengeful Spirit

Who did the cover art 🎨

Between common sense and stone hard stubbornness, running an empire works best with a guy with the most common sense as head honcho.

I think Guilliman laments the loss of the legions since in the current time they would've been more effective than they were 10k years ago when Guilliman broke them

What's the saying? Boys study strategy, Men study logistics.

If the legions had not been broken up, who would have led them after the Primarchs left? And would they have been up to the task?

Timestamps are nice. You should use them.

Imagine if Rogal returned and Guilliman made him the new Warmaster to serve as Guilliman’s right hand to put the best of their talents to work toward building the imperium up. How much would such a duo accomplish and would Rogal accept the role of warmaster or recoil from it due to its connections to Horus

Guiliman despite his detractors undoubtedly the best choice. The Emperor gave him the skills necessary to oversee the governing of the Imperium. It was his special gift from the beginning as evidenced with what he did in the 500 worlds. Of course he’s not perfect but he exhibits the political savvy, flexibility and ability to work with the realities of the situation that most Primark‘s just cannot. And this is not in anyway hey insult or condemnation of Dorn. I think the Lion , would be absolutely the best military commander for the Imperium‘s Armed Forces. Or maybe even the Inquisition? Very simply it was his gift, what he was born to do.

Dorn was a genius at defense and engineering, but Guilliman is a genius at the basic, boring bs that keeps empires going. Logistics and supply.

Because blue is easier to paint than yellow.

So... If Guilliman is regent or whatever does that make Russ Warmaster? 🤔🤔🤔

Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics. -Guilliman probably.

Dorn simply has more personal shit to deal with.

Crafting stuff and being a great warrior is all well and good but you'd think more of the primarchs would be superior administrators considering how big the Imperium is. But I guess Paperhammer isn't as catchy as Warhammer 😀

Fulgrim was Roubutes mirror. Not Dorn or Perty. As well as being his superior. If not for his fall we'd see fulgrim taking the lead where we see papa smurf instead

I think Dorn considered himself the best siege master, but Guilliman was the better warfighter, he was king of logistics, which in almost every war ever is the deciding factor in who wins and who loses Dorn was better at winning individual battles, but Guilliman was better at winning wars Which is why Dorn was perfect for commander in the actual siege battles, but Guilliman would ultimately be better at managing the wars against chaos Post Heresy

Imperial fists probably just didnt have the numbers after the seige , i expect gulliman turned up saved the day last minute and had 100,000 + marines and probably millions of imperial army/navy .. just made sense regardless of primarchs . Occams razor .

Cus Dorn failed, so palace didnt hold, emperor had to take a risk a gamble to kill horus and ended up dead on the throne. Dorn failed.

Imperium was entrusted to Guilliman because Ultramariens are easier to paint than Imperial Fists.

Doesn't the opening guy have his iconography wrong?

Response to the thumbnail: No. Response after the vid: No.