I always saw big E's ability to see the future working like Paul Atreides' and Leto. 2. They could see certain paths and what they needed to do to take them but the at the end of the day there was only one path that was not complete obliteration for mankind and that path also implied a great sacrifice from the emperor. Paul didn't take it and almost destroyed humanity and Leto did and became the God emperor of mankind. I don't think it's a stretch to look at big E in the same way especially since Warhammer 40k is based in part on Dune

We must understand, that it wasn't just the Emperor, who was blind to the future. Eldrad Ulthran, arguably the greatest warp-based future-seer and prophet, tried very hard to scry the future around the same time. He discovered, that his sight was blocked by the United Powers of Chaos. (And the existence of the Cabal) The Covidae-cult of the Thousand Sons had lost most of their sight years before the heresy, as we see with Ahriman. Magnus couldn't see the future either. That is why Nikea was such a blow, and why even a glimpse of future Chaos-Horus sent him reeling. That vision Big E showed Alivia Surekal to get her on board with sacrificing her life for Malcador, was a critical part of the novel "Outcast Dead". It was unleashed in the wake of Magnus breaching the Warp-defenses on Terra. The Emperor didn't "see" it, he was given it by the poor astropath, that just happened to pluck it from the warp-wake. He wasn't the only astropath who eventually understood the 40k future. The other one "in the know" shoot himself....

“The woman making the boat doesn’t finish it or refuses to give it to you” Seemingly a reference to the primarchs mother scattering them across the galaxy

I remember in the outcast dead novel where in the ending after the astropath meets the emperor for the final time in his dream he tells him something along the lines of "you will die" to which the emperor replies "i know"

I was under the impression that the Emperor and Malcadore saw the Heresy as inevitable. That, in fact, they both more or less planned for it. The Heresy just didn’t go quite how they had hoped. This video definitely gives some food for thought.

I think Magnus wrecking the webway was what really put the kaibosh on the whole endeavor. Had the webway been reasonably completed while Horus was organizing and even making his way to Terra he could have been torn apart and I tend to think that was Big E's plan to deal with it. With plan A dashed best he could do was hunker down and plant some seeds to stage a comeback somewhere down the line. Still wondering what Valdor's got going on and whether or not it's on the Emperor's orders.

My understanding is he did foresee the Heresy, he just didn't know which of the Primarch's would betray him. His love of Horus blinded him to any thought of Horus falling.

I am sure that the Emperor saw the heresy, but like it is with all foresight in 40k, you can decide your own fate with your actions and he simply wasnt expecting the heresy with the path he chose.

Future is not set in stone... Conrad saw future, but failed time and time again to prevent tragedies. Who knows, how things will turn, if one never receives any visions and pedictions... the best is to plan, work towards it and have faith.

That video brought me an idea: what if the plans for sanguinius and Conrad were to have two opinions on the visions? One optimistic and one pessimistic. That would explain why curze always saw the bad in everything and sanguinius the good. It was literally what they were made to do

Responding based on title I think he definitely knew and I think it's really obvious he did. Based on conversations with Malcador in Master of Mankind in theire little uber-chess game, to his responses to various other future seers, such as in Outcast Dead, he absolutely knew the Heresy was coming. He just didn't know the fine details. As in, He knew he would be betrayed, but at least 15 of his sons were of uncertain loyalty (Lorgar and Magnus apparently always fall and there's one mystery uber-loyalist). He looks into the future today and sees Angron giving his last against an insane Sanguinius, the next day the vision is flipped. At breakfast he sees the Lion die along the north wall to a bloated Mortarion and by lunch it's changed to Guilliman knocking Lorgar on his ass. As the Heresy gets closer things become clearer. Even without foresight an Emperor's children going traitor because one or more of them don't like some ruling or another by their father is one of Human History's Greatest Hits. Seriously it's so common throughout history it feels like it must be God's favorite trope. For someone as old as Big E it just wouldn't be hard to predict. I think it's also worth noting fault on the side of the audience. As a community we tend to see the Emperor as either a faultless supreme God or a deeply flawed mortal on psychic steroids, rather than a God waging a war against other Gods in a galaxy full of broken and dead Gods. Consider that according to Uldrad (who himself admits the Emperor's precognition is more powerful) the events of the Heresy are being actively blocked by the combined efforts of the four. Tzeench, Nurgle, Khorne and Slaanesh are all putting their effort into stopping anyone from seeing beyond a certain threshold. Even then the only thing the Emperor doesn't at least partially see is the result of the final confrontation. Big E could see the Heresy coming as easily as looking through a window, but there's also four jackasses drawing penises and slurs on the same window. [Ultimately though this is something of a moot argument. It's sort of impossible to ascertain a character's motives and goals when they're being written by half a dozen different people who are clearly not talking to each other at all about it.]

I do believe the Emperor didn't predict the heresy... but he sure did put in a lot of work setting it up. Look how he treated Angron, Lorgar, and Magnus. I think he was planning on a heresy, but it happened earlier than he thought because Chaos got into Horus unexpectedly. Just an opinion and a guess!

Thats such a clever way to put foresight and explain to someone who hasnt

In dune the story has alot to do with guiding the future, and a major part of one of the books is the worm Emperor suppressing humanity and making future guiding more difficult to stop something.

When you're juggling being a galactic lightbulb, stealing some space emo's dimension tunnels, krumping the krumpers, ordering your bipedal war machines from wish.omnissiah, glaring menacingly at the chaos gods, playing chess with your homie, ensuring the feng shui of your throneroom is on point and trying to foresee where your massive star empire is headed in a years time it can get hard

Emperor: “The risk I took was calculated, but the limitless possibilities of the universe are very hard to ascertain”

The Emperor's tendency to share with the wrong people is one of those loose rocks. He already knew that the Primarchs had felt the influence of Chaos when they were snatched and sent to their various worlds. Yet his expectation that they would be reliable tools without candor on his part created the problem. Had he made more of an effort to impress upon them the truth about Chaos and how reacting to it was what really drove his otherwise mysterious activities, then he might have averted so much suffering for all of humanity, including himself. Often prophecy is no substitute for common sense. In fact, prophecy can distract from immediate concerns. You don't notice the loose rock because you're fixated on the top of the cliff. One wonders how he lived so long and only seemed to figure this out too late.

The Blood Ravens claim this video for the chapter

I think he did know, I think he knew that it had to play out as it did. He visited Molech with The Lion, Jaghatai, Fulgrim, and a certain Horus he knew one of them would betray him this was a test and a trap.

It's like climatology variables mean that you can only make predictions, certainty is impossible. You can see the storm, you can see it's size but where it will land and when it will cease is almost impossible, and to take a quote from Meet Joe Black, "multiply that by infinite and take it to the depths of forever and you still won't be able to grasp what I'm talking about".

I think he did see the possibility but knowing how many possibilities existed he was never sure which future would come to pass

There is a better thing describing his prediction of heresy in "The board is set", where heresy is going, they wait for Horus arriving. They play with Malcador the game to plan the war, and everytime it's again ana again one outcome and they know what will happen. But suddenly this something changed in the game, new condition. And that was the moment what Mortarion betrayed. This was awesome so book, it is even better as we are not sure if Malcador indeed played with Emperor, or Emperor just sent him vision to his head or it's all was just in Malcador mind.

Happy birthday Rho keep doing the great work love the videos.

Happy birthday Rho! Thank you for the excellent content, wishing you all the best!

Happy birthday! I think they're doing the Dune-style of foresight, where you can see many possible futures but it's not always clear exactly what actions lead to exactly which future. The large picture (the far shore or clifftop) is easy to see, but how to get there becomes more and more unclear the more you look at the possible outcome of every actions. Like when the Nighthaunter sees the young boy who could become a champion of his world and protogé of the Nighthaunter, leading it to a new prosperous age for Nostromo, or die by the Nighthaunter's hand with his future ending right there, or grabbing a knife stabbing the Nighthaunter and getting away and becoming "the one who beat the Nighthaunter" breaking his reign of terror and uniting the gangs against him, all in the same moment - then he chose to kill the boy, because one possible outcome was unacceptable to him as he kept telling himself only the worst predictions ever came true (even though he clearly had the ability to make better outcomes happen).

Happy birthday, Rho! Thanks for doing the work that you do for the warhammer community. Your content’s been a huge help in dealing with everything, ranging from anxiety to sleeping.

I think foresight is like the old time-travel paradox. You go back in time to change the past, only by your intervention you end up causing the thing you were trying to avoid. The Emperor can see a future but he doesn't fully know which of his actions are bringing that future about versus which action are changing it.

Happy Birthday! My simple answer to the title question: He did. He just didn't predict the outcome of the last battle. The ending of the Heresy was a flipped coin landing on its edge: where both Horus and the Emperor would effectively destroy each other, leaving mankind to rot in 10,000 years of stagnation. The Emperor and the Eldar had collectively forseen 3 endings: 1. Horus wins handily - He manages to throw off the yoke of Chaos or falls to it much much more slowly. The Imperium continues on without the Emperor and throws off many of the restrictions and power structures that had previously limited it. It burns bright and short like the Eldar Empire but Humanity does not ever annihilate itself. 2. Horus wins narrowly - He has to embrace Chaos much more completely. Completely burnt out and destroyed, the Imperium riots itself into the extinction of Humanity, aided and abetted by the crazed and bloodthirsty remnants of the Astartes. 3. The emperor wins narrowly - either by force of arms, by Horus burning out, or in the final confrontation with Horus. He is slowly able ot regain and rebuild his dream, despite being perched permanently on the Golden Throne to hold the webway shut. The Emperor believes this will lead to the eventual death of Chaos; the Eldar believe otherwise.

This is also the author's description of how the Horus Heresy has to be written. The ending has been known for 30 years or more, but the stories in between have not, and they MUST arrive at the ending we can see and know.

There's also the issue that the Emperor, for some part, wanted the Primarchs to be who they were and almost intended for something *_like_* the Horus Heresy to happen as per some his interactions with Malcador. They intentionally let tension and conflict between the Primarchs play out. And, in the audiodrama "Malcador: First Lord of the Imperium"... Malcador all but comes out and says the Heresy was planned, but that the Emperor/him weren't ready for it because it happened faster than they expected (with Horus basically making a straight beeline for Terra instead of fighting out the war). And... they theory holds water - because the theory is he wanted to do the same here as he did with the Thunder Warriors. After the heresy was over and the war settled he wanted to end the need or influence of the Primarchs and wanted ordinary humans to be the backbone of the Imperium. I mean, he's done it before. It fits with his previous actions. I don't know if I buy the theory, but there's enough canonical material that shows that some of it was planned. A lot of it *_DEFINITELY_* did not go according to plan, however, but there's also material of the Emperor speaking with people showing that Chaos influence taints prediction (which seems true, according to the theory he expected Horus to think strategically and tactically as normal and fight a prolonged war, instead Horus tried to head for Terra as fast as possible - they weren't therefore ready according to Malcador). And on long timelines with too many branching paths, he just can't be completely positive of the outcome.

Happy birthday rho!! I’ve been watching your videos since 5k subs!!

Happy Birthday Rho! I hope you had a great birthday. My take is that the Emperor's foresight was clouded by the machinations of Tzeentch similar to how the jedi's sight was clouded by the dark side in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Therefore, the Emperor chose the path he thought would have the least troubles and hoped for the best. But then Horus and Magnus happened...

Happy birthday, loved the video as always Keep up the amazing work Rho

Happy birthday, Rho!

Happy Birthday! Thank you for another top quality video!

Love this description of foresight but it gets even harder when you have Chaos Gods trying to Sabatage you the entire way. Without that obstacle it was a done deal of humanity winning.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Love your channel.

Happy birthday brother! I love your channel. Please keep up the good work and enjoy your special day.

Happy birthday g Youre the channel that got me back into this hobby after 15 years

Some theories were in early editions he did see this happening and he was trying to prevent it initially and when that failed or look like it would he took steps to essentially becoming a god/godlike being and with the merging of the realms destroy chaos or at least give humanity a chance. Would explain why he acted or did certain thing with how he treated primarchs also why he didnt kill them to give them a chance for redemption. Future isnt set and peoples free will can change that, quite literally with the warp.

Happy birthday Rho!!

I think the Emperor saw something big coming that was really bad. He didn't know what because the Chaos gods were interfering in the Warp. That's why His departure from the Crusade makes much more sense.

Happy birthday! Worked all weekend but relaxing today

Happy birthday brother keep making the best videos on KZfaq :)

He did though. Malcador stated they planned for it to happen hence the rivalries. What he didn't predict was Chaos accelerating the Heresy by 200 years. By that point the custodes would be as large as a legion.

Happy Birthday Rho!

For me, he saw the cliff which he had to climb and knew there'd be loose rocks (the Primarchs that fall) but which ones would fall and which would not were unknown to him. The whole you can't bake a cake without breaking a few eggs argument. Without Primarchs he'd not be able to create the future he wanted, but with them he'd know some wouldn't make the destination as they'd fall on the way.

Thanks for the shoutout! It was a bland 4th of July here in the states. We only had 8 mass shootings on the shootiest holiday we have!

happy birthday, Wolf Lord! Personal theory is that he saw several threads of Fate, he wasn't able to see all the details. The Emperor also, being so detached from the common man, looked only towards the outcome, not the people so he didn't tell the whole truth.

Happy Birthday mate, keep going🤝🫂

My favorite 40k theory is the time traveling Emperor, or rather, the Emperor has gone through his early life, he's reunified Terra, done the great crusade, and.mafe the primarchs many times. In every timeline, the Warmaster turns traitor, but Hours isn't always Warmaster, sometimes it's Lion El Johny, sometimes it's Roboute, and yes, sometimes Horus is the Warmaster. It's a very interesting theory.

One of the siege of Terra books clearly described not only that the Emperor knew the Heresy was coming but that it was part of a reoccurring cycle he used repeatedly to aquire more power, knowing each time his Warmaster would betray him, first one was Ollanius, last one was always meant to be Horus, at least since his trip to Molech during the Golden Age.

Happy Birthday Rho

Perhaps he thought the Heresy was already over, considering the two missing Primarchs being eliminated or what ever happened to them.

happy birthday Rho!

I think the Horus heresy being a future that the big e foresaw but was ultimately blindsided by how big it was actually gonna be does a lot to wrap up his motivations and actions into a nice bow. Konrad foresaw the Horus heresy and we know that the primarchs all have aspects of the emperor in their personality and skill set so it’s very likely big e has it as well. I also think it goes a long way to explain the big e interactions with his sons beyond “he dumb tho” or writer being inconsistent in how they portray his actions. We’ve seen the emperor handle delicate situations with raven boy but he also just kinda shit in angrons cereal and told him to eat it. So the proposition is that the big e tried to control which primarchs would turn traitor and which would stay loyal by befriended and earning the trust of some and otherwise be hostile to the ones that wouldn’t have any use to him post crusade or who had developed terrible mental conditions that wouldn’t fit in his golden age. Ultimately it was the emperors arrogance and blind faith in his own abilities that doomed him and while I see it tragically I can understand why many wouldn’t. Also stop letting ADB write imperium novels. He’s obviously a part of the old school the imperium is doomed chaos will eventually win no redeemable qualities crowd and it makes his characterization of the emperor bad and the months of shame is an apt name but it’s more of a shame that he wrote it

According to Malcador, it was always the plan for the primarch's to fight with each other. That he and the emperor planned it all. However, the way they went it went down was not planned. As he said he needed more time. Primarchs would never accept the human rule. Even Malcador last conversation asked which is loyal it's like they always knew about disloyal Primarchs.

Just as planned. The Emperor and Chaos both knew what was coming. They also probably knew about the Tyranids as well. The question then becomes, did the Horus Heresy make the galaxy stronger against the Tyranids or weaker? Because if it's Stronger or more Vigilant, then an easy case can be made that the Emperor allowed it to happen to fight off a bigger threat.

Happy Birthday Mate!

Happy birthday thanks for the great content

Happy Birthday Wolf Lord!

Happy B Day my Man!! 🎂🍺👍🏻

Always on motion it the future! happy bday rho

As Always Wolf Fantastic!!!

Happy birthday bro! 👍👍

I interpret this the following way: He has a destination and there are many ways leading there. Seeing the way basically means you have an understanding what there could happen while travelling on those ways. So I guess he had an understanding about chaos (therefor he didn't tolerate religion) but not how exactly this would play out. Edit: Somehow while listening to this how falling down and starting again I got strange vibes of Re:Zero. The Emperor is Natsuki Subaru... damn...

I believe he did see it, it's just the path that humanity needed to be on for survival. I literally can't see any other reason as to why the Primarchs did not get somewhat similar treatment. I mean, Angron legit got treated like shit.

Happy Birthday Wolf Lord enjoy your day

Happy Birthday brother!

I don't buy it. I think he saw the future. I mean we're talking about a guy who spent tens of thousands of years seeding prophesies, setting up contingencies, and carefully planning for his future for mankind. I can't believe that he didn't foresee the outcome of censuring Lorgar and the council of Nicea. Those seem much more like deliberate pushes than mistakes. If we assume that the Emperor's plan was to ascent to godhood, those "mistakes" seem more reasonable. To paraphrase a Greek philosopher, "Either the Emperor is an incredibly fallible prophet or he's an incredibly evil ruler...he cannot be both a prophet and good."

This 5 minute conversation was all it would've taken to stop Konrad's fall

I would of thought The Emperor would have taken counter measures if he knew what was coming, I also think seeing the future is having to interpret visions of possible futures which would leave any one not knowing what could happen or what will happen

Emperor (Sees mankind falling) "That's not my problem, that's future me's problem" Future Emperor "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Happy birthday Ro may the Emperor bless you with many more my friend

Something that might be worth a video related to this is In The 1990 book Realm of Chaos: Lost and The Damned, there is a story of the fight between the Emperor and Horus at the end of the Heresy. It's from the Emperor's POV (only example as far as I'm aware) and the Emperor describes an end to this foresight, a point he can't see beyond. "He has come at last to the dark place, the time of testing, the era hidden from his precognitive vision and beyond which he cannot see. The moment he has always dreaded has arrived. Is my time over, he wonders? Is this where it all ends? Is this why I have reached the limits of my prophetic powers? Is this where I die? " IMO to predicting the Heresy, the Emperor really wouldn't have needed Foresight to have known that it could have happened. How many betrayal and backstabbing would he have witnessed thought out the Millennia? Ollanius Persson, Erda and probably other left or betrayed him before the great crusade already, possible the lost and forgotten as well. I think he saw it coming, but didn't realise the scale of it.

Happy birthday dude

Happy birthday man

Happy Birthday Young man 😁

Happy birthday Wolf Lord.

Happy birthday mate

Happy birthday roe!!!

What i get is that the Emperor foresight is like traveling with a map, the map shows you the destination and the road you must take to get there but the map doesnt show you the condition or the blockages of the road.

One day Malcador is Primarch tier and force choking Horus to death - the next he gets vaporized by Magnus in the blink of an eye. One day Girlyman is a genius tactician - the next he gets outplayed by a hedonistic brother not known for his tactical prowess. One day Russ is fighting an evenly matched duel with the Lion - the next he lumps him with the brothers he could beat without a thought. Gotta love those "great moments" of writing brilliance...

Happy Birthday!!!!!

Happy Birthday!

Merry birthday!

Happy late Bday Rho!

Happy birthday!

This is a great reveal. It shows and depicts a finite emperor. Not an all powerful emperor. Too often 40k fans or imperial fans speak of the emperor as all powerful whereas this truly shows him expressing how truly limitful he is. I can appreciate this version of the emperor more than the omnipotent altruistic being fans try so desperately to paint the fictional character out to be.

From my limited understanding is that He did knew that before long trouble would brew and a great deal of his actions were playing for time before and after Ulanor. Planning to upbring the primarchs together so that their differences would be blunted somewhat for example After Ulanor, naming Horus Warmaster because he knew Horus would be the one most of his brothers would accept. The edict of Nikea, so that psyker question would not be the spark that put brother against brother - and mayhaps attempt to limit the influence of Chaos further still. He recalled Dorn and his legion to Terra as well to fortify it. All of these, and there was that one discussion Malcador had with Dorn if I recall correctly, that they knew the enemy would act, what they didn't know is how much time they had.

magnus threw a wrench in his plans, moreover, chaos at this point was uniting against the emperor. his big flaw was in not telling enough of his sons about demons and the warp.

Happy Birthday dude and yep foresight is not twenty twenty, it is not even 5 by 5 there are way too many variables, when you find yourself in a present that you have already seen take note of it and do your best in the moment and that is all you can do, some preparation for it is perhaps possible, however the more you build contingencies the more your intent is idling on what you don`t want to happen and intent is the most powerful force in the universe, it is best put on what you do want to happen and then you deal with the events that try and take you off that path.

Happy Birthday Rho, hope it was a corker 👊🏻

I have a theory; That it wasn't Horus that started The Heresy, it was they who would become oligarchs in The Emporer's Stead, The High Lords of Terra. All throughout history, oligarchs have ruled human civilizations, and when a monarch gets too powerful for their liking, they seep away at the edges of the monarchy's power, stealing it for themselves. Such has always been the way of men who want power but have not earned it. I believe that The High Lords of Terra were _always_ going to betray The Emperor, were ALWAYS Jealous of his power, and planned on instating their oligarchy since they got the positions they had when the heresy happened. Positions of administration, that, theoretically, could rule without an emperor. "If we can rule without him, why do we need him?" and so when Horus fell to chaos, they siezed the opportunity, let the heresy get all the way to The Emperor, and when he was put in a coma, they took charge. Furthermore, I believe The Emperor _knew_ this, and chose to let the heresy happen to expose they who would be the high lords of terra. The only thing he didn't expect was his Coma. He would have chosen that he would save Horus from Chaos, and in doing so expose the forces that let the heresy so far inward, and bring them to justice. But when he had to resort to a psychic attack that rent at his own mind in the process, when he crumbled into The Golden Throne, He of course adapted; he found those most loyal to him, and formed The Inquisition, formed the throngs of followers that surround his chamber, and slowly built back up his influence over His Empire, so that when The Emperor rises once more from that throne, he will not be so easily deposed again. And in a way, he has already defeated The High Lords of Terra; they thought they didn't need him, but in his absence technology has stagnated, chaos has only grown more bold, and enemies have moved in from all sides. They said they didn't need him, but oh how wrong they were... He awakens, slowly and steadily, and when he rises anew from The Golden Throne, a dozen fragmented shards of his mind reformed into a dozen minds working in tandem, his power and intellect only stronger than ever, when he retakes control, resparks innovation, and revitalizes The Empire of Humanity, all will be rendered as it should be once more. The Emperor Protects.

imho, the Emperor saw it coming, even more so, he planned it.. turns out the Primarch are yes super human designed in labs but also they carry the "soul" of minor gods from the warp.. but to do so the Emperor had to bargain with the chaos gods.. and they wanted a payment for that bargain.. probably I am wrong.. but this is my idea

This isn't that complicated. No matter how well Big E can see the future, Tzeentch can see it better. Tzeentch can make any of the stones on the symbolic hill loose. The primarchs were created with power borrowed from chaos. There was always going to be a terrible price.

Thank you

I've read almost all the novels and it always amazes me how the Emperor is portrayed, it gives you a unique insight into his plans for humanity as well as his dream that hangs at the edge of a blade in the 41st millennium. Tuetur Principem ⚡️

I'm a big fan of limited prescience in stories with powerful figures. It merges the ideas of Self-Determination and Pre-Determination in an interesting way that makes the "gift" seem way more human. We see people in real life do this sort of thing all the time. "I want to accomplish X goal. I envision myself accomplishing X goal. I plan out how to get to X goal. Now my plan didn't survive contact with the 'enemy' so I have to adjust mid-execution." I think ADB did an excellent job with the Emperor, and Master of Mankind is my favorite depiction of him yet. It really speaks to the truth of who the man is underneath that can be all of the various versions of the Emperor we see in other stories. The destroying of churches and elimination of religion throughout Unification and the Crusade; how he treats the Primarchs; how he interacts with Malcador; even down to how he speaks to and treats individual Astartes and humans. You see that he is just a dude (a very powerful dude) that is just trying to do the best he can with the information he has available to him. A very real situation we all deal with all the time.

I always thought you couldn’t really se the future, because if you can see it then surely it would change because you saw it and know what’s going to happen that must effect what would happen?