Which Southampton players should get Premier League moves after their relegation? 👇

Mark in his Klopp era

Remember when Southampton were like 4 wins from UCL? Football changes in a flash, that flash was even quicker for a club like Leicester

Pretty simple, They didn't understand which manager will suit the profile of players at their club to lead them.

Slightly different take: the worst clubs in the Premier League have gotten much much better - this side feels like it woild have easily stayed up 4 years ago

Brentford took a gamble on Toney who did a bit of gambling himself apparently.

Southampton haven't been the same since Nicola Cortese left the club, atleast that's my view as an outsider. Once he left, I believe that I saw they stopped giving chances to their academy players. With academy players, you need to give a run of games to the player and live and die with the results.

Lack of experience in the squad hurt them

Since every EPL club uses data, there will still be 3 "data-driven" clubs who end up getting relegated. Thus, the separators become: what leadership structures are in place, who is interpreting the data more efficiently, how is the data being applied, and what data points matter more than others.

Ahhh, that explains that then. When I was growing up, a lot of kids in Bristol seemed to be on the books for Saints and I couldn't work out why (Norwich as well for some reason). I now live in Devon and they have 'Soccer Saints' Youth development centres.

One piece of data that is irrefutable is that whatever they do and however good their data analysis and decision making is, three teams will get relegated from the Premier League next year and the year after...

The reduction of knowledge to mere information is a serious problem of the modern world. So strange seeing this conceptual error find its way into football as well

The idea is that data-driven thinking allows you to punch above your weight. You can still punch above your weight and be bad enough to be relegated.

You still have to be better than 3 other teams to stay in the league. I think some teams are fooled into believing that the data driven approach will see them on a steady upwards trajectory, especially if they enjoy initial success like Southampton did. Sometimes you require that innovation just to stay still though. I believe some years ago that Southampton thought they had established a solid footing in the league and planned to scale it further. They skewed too far away from a profile of players able to battle relegation and instead bought players with more of a developmental focus.

If Southampton get the right manager in quickly, a season in the Championship could be great for their young players, thought the will lose the best ones.

Selling Van Dijk, Mane, Lovren, Lallana, Chambers, Clyde, Shaw, Wanyama, Fonte, and Hojbjerg didn’t help.

to be fair to Southampton, their recent recruitment was reminiscent of the way Brighton go about their business. Players like Lavia and Alcaraz wouldn't look out of place in the Brighton side. Bazunu for his age is also decent but it's probably been a season too soon for him to be a first teamer in the Premier league. The same is probably true of Edozie and Larios too. No idea who greenlit the Onuachu signing though. The Belgian league often kicks out duds, Barnsley signed two strikers last season and they were that bad they couldn't even make the bench.

Stats have their place. They take the objective measure of a player's performance. Touches by position, touches versus opponents, # of passes, passing completed, ground covered, tackles won/lost,, among many many others. But players have to do well in three tests: the eye test, the fitness/athleticism test, and the character test. In top leagues, fitness is critical, and your fitness can be scientifically measured and scientifically improved. Athleticism too can be measured and analyzed. And players in training should work on their weaknesses to improve. And character? Well, you have to do your due diligence there. The eye test is all about technique and decision making, and putting a stamp on the game. Bottom line, teams with better players by those dimensions tend to beat teams with weaker players on those dimensions. The only thing that can't be truly measured is character--discipline, determination, fearlessness. Intellgence, however, CAN be measured. Finally, you build a team from the back. Unless you can get great possession mids, you MUST have a solid defense. A quality goalkeeper will by himself win you 2 games a season, or more. A great back line will keep you in games against better teams. This has been Leeds problem this entire year. Their defense is not very good and they really did nothing in the transfer windows to really shore it up.

Never heard anyone who loves the sound of their own voice as much as Matt slater

As a masters student in data analysis, I offer the following observations; we need large, robust datasets of accurate, specific information to start with, we need to realise that we are dealing with probabilities not certainties and most importantly we need to ask the right questions in order to test our hypotheses. Then we can check out our outcomes. Southampton needed to simplify their decision making processes to ensure their premiership survival. Their model for staying in the division was clearly flawed.

Southampton are like any of the bottom 6 EPL sides. They needed a centre forward that would score 12 goals a season. Nothing wrong with their signings persay, they just didnt buy a striker who could score 10 or 12 league goals. In fact, they have never replaced Danny Ings

Because it was not really a “data era”. Since these new investors did not bring extra investment in the club, they had to come up with an angle to appease the supporters. “We don’t bring any funds, bur we bring knowledge and expertise”. Yeah right.

Data driven football clubs are like data driven businesses. Yes you need structure, but you also need to understand the skill in patience. Too often in business, an external factor forces decisions being made that overly bias the upside of data or overly negate the downside. Brentford & Brighton both appear to be clubs who understand that the data model will mean a path of steady rise. Yes both have over achieved this year, but in the context of a decade long strategy their growth is more incremental. Coming in and spending big, for now results, doesn't reflect a data based strategy. Southampton once had an academy that was the envy of much of England. If they were to return to these ways, they could easily implement a data based model to rise to being a very strong club. But you need to have ownership and management who understand next year and 3 years from now, is as important as right now. In business or sport, if you get stuck in a right now mentality, eventually you are over taken. Look at Chelsea, a huge amount of money spent for the right now, which will likely cause much pain in the future. Barcelona may have just won La Liga but they are a club who have made a decade of right now decisions, and their tipping moment is ever increasing.

We are all one family at Brentford . Up or down we stick together…..❤️‍🩹 🐝

Southampton were the trendy team, then it was Leicester, now its Brighton. Soon to be Brentford and after them..... probably Luton. Everything is cyclical.

Mark is right. The thing about the biggest clubs is that they can correct their mistakes. Chelsea can buy Lukaku and win even when he doesn't work. City have spent insane money on defenders that didn't really work and still won. Arsenal buy Pepe and it kills them for 5 years. Spurs waste the Bale money and it takes years to recover. That's a huge difference

Buying over 8+ players and at the ages of 18-20 with 0 PL experience is a automatic failure

Changing managers all the time is madness.

There are folk whom supported Cherries since the days of Ted MacDougall from villages or towns within the woods & hills between Bournemouth & Southampton whom have suffered ignominy from sfc supporters since the days of Bobby Stokes . WE aren’t complaining 😁❤️

Data worked great at Southampton. But when you sell EVERY good player you find, eventually you are going down. Brentford will go down too in 1-5 years because they will also lose EVERY excellent player to teams that can pay more.

The data model doesn't work across leagues and should only be used for arbitraging the output of a player vs the contract cost.

This was a long time coming for the Saints, they built a good side in the mid 2010s even when they lost players, the scouting was still good.

Chelsea also took the gamble by primarily using statistical datas for recruitment purposes and almost all of the signings that they’ve made especially in the Winter window haven’t turned out well for them. I’ve never seen an ownership that manages to destroy the legacy of the club that quickly than Todd Boehly and Eghbali did. This is coming from a Chelsea fan btw.

Personally thing there is only so many times you can sell your best players and then replace them with quality. There luck has run out!!

Football players aren't machines. If a young player is performing really well, and ranking highly in performance metrics on five grand a week - and he gets a new contract for a hundred grand a week - do you think they will have the same drive to perform. Some will, most won't. Hunger and will to win is not something that can be captured in data.

You need a balanced team. Young and experienced players. An average age of 26 to 27. Both Leeds and Southampton have an average age of 25. Their teams are too young.

they haven't found a way to quantify heart.

Football isn't played on spreadsheets.

I didn’t realise that Data from Star Trek NG played for Southampton

The real issue is the need for clubs to resort to talent gambling in the richest league in the world. It is a practice born of inequalities in the League. It is forced as the league is inherently an unfair and biased competition. Financial FairPlay is a farce with Premier League, FA and God Himself unable to drag owners who are now using the resources of countries through courts. Meanwhile VAR/PGMOL have been infiltrated by a few individuals. It’s like a tidy locker room club, bantering about clubs and individuals on a subtle level. These clubs can only make educated gambles, but are forced to repeat it as there is no protection to be able to retain their players they have gambled their futures on. It’s like being at a one arm bandit that statistically takes everything back over time. The list is endless and will continue Southampton is only the latest where time has run out and the croupier sweeps the chips off the table.

Look how many of the senior people Southampton have lost this season . That’s one of the many reasons for the relegation

Last time they won trophy was my uncle Bobby Stokes goal in 1976

Stats do not win football matches.

two words why we failed Rasmus Ankersen, he thinks he is a genius but he isn't

Their squad has been terrible for some time. The Chinese owners were terrible and ran the club down. They needed more than a couple of transfer windows of kids. They needed serious investment.

The same will happen with Brighton. People keep arguing with me about it but they sell all the sir best players then buy complete unknowns and they will come unstuck with it in the next 5 or 6 years

context driven decisions use data analysis but purely data driven decisions can lead to blindsiding aspects such as form , threats from other teams and potential permutations of the other fixtures that are out of the locus of control for data means that it can be beneficial but depends on the interpretation . AI is going to revolutinse both gambling side of things and these kind of cuththroat applications of the AI applications in these industries. People will lose bets because the house has a better idea of their chances.

If you sell your best players you will get relegated ask Leicester

If SFCs ‘ gravity was forced to extend 50 miles west to Bath City , & there wasn’t there any decent talent in the SW in Dorset or Devon , couldn’t they post a scout 60 miles South across the sea to France ?

Probably because data doesnt factor in league quality and team quality and etc. Big club dont sign unproven talent like that so they dont have to worry. City didnt sign unproven players they signed prodigies who were ahead of their peers by a landslide.

It is not the data that failed them

That sexy Moneyball method needs nuance in order to work. Otherwise, it's just an overrated tool.

I come to this channel for insight and knowledge; why is mark chapman here?

Lies, damn lies and statistics

Ward-Prowse to Spurs must happen

It's simple. Football is about more than data. This is real life, not Football Manager. Football is more simple than people make it these days, with the whole xG and xA nonsense, and buying whole squads of players based on potential rather than players current levels

Forget stats, just go for whoever Brighton wants. They will probably turn into a star player😂

Absolutely embarrassing season for us. Nathan Jones has been our worst ever manager. From European Football to Championship relegation in just eight seasons. We need to come back to the top flight quickly.

That abysmal goalkeeper hasn’t helped them. Some big names in the Championship next season, it’ll be tough to get out of it.

The EPL & EFL should ban all gambling companies sponsorships and shirt naming rights. Gambling is a seriously corrosive social issue that has terrible consequences.

I call it Karma. Ralph Hassenhuttl was/is a good manager. Southampton in their infinite wisdom decided to ditch him, but then for some inexplicable reason appointed a guy who has never really managed at Premier League level before and who in my own rather humble opinion isn't really EPL calibre and has yet to prove himself as such in Mr Nathan Jones. Later on they decided to also ditch Jones but by which time the damage had already been done. Welcome to the EFL Championship. Meanwhile RH could still end up managing an EPL club next season.

if Southampton want to be winning the league they will need a bigger ground a billionaire owner and will never sell shirts like Man u or Liverpool for decades of success

Rasmus Ankersen Sport Republic failed - they did not have proven PL experience on pitch or in dugout. Were better under Rupert Lowe and Ralph Hassenhuttl ..

football is played on grass wins again

The Southampton players are not great at all. I actually think they'll struggle in the Championship next season too

Ward-Prowse, Write da teme toon Sing da teme toon. People of a certain age will get it.

Athletic has been cited as the source of Griezmann-Ronaldo swap in 2022. Obvious hoax and untrusted souce

Nice to see Mark Chapman has turned his life around after killing John Lennon

Maybe a 2 year no EPL buyout clause (in all epl contracts), in the prem to stop big teams taking smaller teams best players.

2024: Saints Relagted To League One

Nathan Jones was the best bullshitter in Europe

12 year old kids have the data