Why did the USA join the Vietnam War?

Рет қаралды 36,541

Күн бұрын

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There is no clear starting point. One could say that the war began with the first American death in 1945, when Viet Minh forces mistakenly shot an OSS officer after WWII had ended; or you could say it was 1950, when President Truman officially supported the old regime that would become South Vietnam; there was 1955, when President Eisenhower sent in military advisors; 1962 with JFK sending Green Berets in massive numbers; or 1964 with LBJ ramping up the already established mission to full-scale warfare. The beginning of American involvement in the Vietnam War could be any of those dates and more. If you let a camel stick its nose under the tent, eventually it will insist on being completely within the tent. America is the camel here. We stuck our nose in, and bit by bit, we became fully entangled. It took so much blood and treasure there and here to dislodge ourselves again, forever changing not just American and Vietnamese history, but how the world arranged power.
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Bibliography
America at War: The Macmillan Compendium (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1994). amzn.to/2uaLkEd
Christian Appy, American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity (New York: Penguin, 2015). amzn.to/46pNqQL
Alan Axelrod, America’s Wars (New York: Wiley and Sons, 2002). amzn.to/2NHcLOa
Bernard B. Fall, Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina (Mechanicsburg, Pen.: Stackpole Books, 1994). amzn.to/3G3EGEk
George Herring, America’s Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975, 6th ed. (1979; New York: McGraw-Hill, 2001). amzn.to/45rjjXC
Edwin Hoyt, America’s Wars & Military Excursions (New York: McGraw-Hill Book Co, 1987). amzn.to/2u9QGiP
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Wiki: United States involvement in the Vietnam War began shortly after the end of World War II in Asia, first in an extremely limited capacity and escalating over a period of 20 years. The U.S. military presence peaked in April 1969, with 543,000 American combat troops stationed in Vietnam.[1] By the conclusion of the United States's involvement in 1973, over 3.1 million Americans had been stationed in Vietnam.
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Hashtags: #history #vietnamwar #vietnam
chapters
0:00 intro
4:30 promo
6:10 French conquest
7:16 WWII
8:29 First Indochina War
11:26 partition
12:59 MAAG
13:57 green berets
14:59 MACV
17:05 Gulf of Tonkin
20:10 full involvement
21:35 conclusion
25:01 outtakes

Пікірлер: 299

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Thanks to MyHeritage for sponsoring this. Goto bit.ly/TheCynicalHistorianFeb2024 for a free 2-week trial. Click "read more" for further info, corrections, and bibliography. Thanks for watching! Please consider supporting the channel by buying merch: teespring.com/stores/the-cynical-historian Or by donating to my Patreon: www.patreon.com/CynicalHistorian *[reserved for Errata]* *Related videos* Why wars start series: kzfaq.info/sun/PLjnwpaclU4wVlZsX5rgTSXmUwmFAHedmM What caused the Cold War? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qdGefraKvpbbnKc.html Cold War and Red Scare lecture: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o5p0mchezNTDdqc.html Trial of the Chicago 7: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p7FkibZexL-anYk.html How California became the "Left Coast": kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jKmpgMiEq66Vm2Q.html Rise of the New Left: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nLKog7iUv7GqpY0.html From Counterculture to Culture Wars: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qtagmKqK1L2oqJs.html *Bibliography* _America at War: The Macmillan Compendium_ (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1994). amzn.to/2uaLkEd Christian Appy, _American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity_ (New York: Penguin, 2015). amzn.to/46pNqQL Alan Axelrod, _America’s Wars_ (New York: Wiley and Sons, 2002). amzn.to/2NHcLOa Bernard B. Fall, _Street Without Joy: The French Debacle in Indochina_ (Mechanicsburg, Pen.: Stackpole Books, 1994). amzn.to/3G3EGEk George Herring, _America’s Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975,_ 6th ed. (1979; New York: McGraw-Hill, 2001). amzn.to/45rjjXC Edwin Hoyt, _America’s Wars & Military Excursions_ (New York: McGraw-Hill Book Co, 1987). amzn.to/2u9QGiP

@michaelacosta9204 3 ай бұрын

You're a great father 25:13

@whimsicalhamster88 3 ай бұрын

The cool part is that we totally learned our lesson and never spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on the other side of the planet to lose a war against unbelievably weaker enemies who had the luxury of actually living there.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

As a veteran of the war you're alluding to, hoh boi did I feel that when making this episode

@ThunderHOWL16 3 ай бұрын

Banger comment.

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

No one seems to understand when I say no country no matter how powerful can "win" an occupation of a foreign country without a little genocide and a police state. You know the way we did with the greater 48 states... And Hawaii... And almost the Philippines.

@VoteBidentoSaveDemocracy 3 ай бұрын

@@john2g1It's been that way from time immemorial. The Roman genocide of the Punic people comes to mind.

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

@@VoteBidentoSaveDemocracy it's a double tragedy. Regardless of how noble or nefarious the reason for the occupation is the end result is option A, B, or both. A. Massive loss of life and only for an eventual end to the occupation B. The occupiers become inhumane monsters Yes you're absolutely right about how long this has been proven true and yet politicians who should know better keep pushing forward and regular citizens keep pushing the insulting hah ha flip-flop narrative. One day...

@jessetorres8738 3 ай бұрын

My father & I took my Vietnam War veteran grandfather to Washington D.C. several years ago for the 1st time for him to see the Vietnam War Memorial Wall. He got drafted in the late 1960s & he got injured by shrapnel from a land mine (in addition to getting shot), so he got sent home and received a Purple Heart. However, 6 of his buddies didn't make it back home, so before the trip he made a list of all of their names & where they were located on the wall. As he found each on the wall, he got very emotional knowing that he managed to come home (though injured), get married, have 3 sons, & live another 50 years, but 6 of his friends didn't.

@theshenpartei 3 ай бұрын

I been to the traveling version wall which was a smaller version of the one in dc

@kyonkochan 3 ай бұрын

The Vietnamese War of Independence from the Vietnamese perspective is incredibly fascinating and one of the most interesting stories of modern geo-political intrigue I know of! Ho Chi Minh was a very shrewd guy who knew how to play people against each other to benefit himself. It's interesting too that most of his ideas on anti-colonialism came from his studies in France where the French exposed him to the rhetoric of anti-imperialism. So you have this scenario where the French military are literally fighting an enemy that represents the same values French people believe in.

@MrTrees77 3 ай бұрын

I try to emphasize this all the freaking time. If America and the global North weren't such hypocrites about our foreign policy..... We would have so many allies all over the world. Millions of people would not be dead. And all the money that we spent on the bullets and bombs could have gone to saving people's lives. But because our foreign policy is based off of capital interests and the wealthy, while simultaneously espousing things like democracy in the rights of people to be self-determinate..... The American people will constantly be bamboozled and whiplashed by the fact that people do not like us.

@vincenttapia2037 3 ай бұрын

My grandfather was drafted by this war. My friend's gandfather, who is Vietnamese, was a member of the Vietcong. They were actually not to far from each other. Could of honestly shot at each other. Who knew grandchildren would be friends later down the line.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

That seems to be the case for most wars. Just a couple generations later, everyone has actually moved on, even when the politics of the situation remain pertinent

@botauto79 3 ай бұрын

Ooh man this topic got me depressed LOL. My dad is a Vietnam Vet and myself a "Iraqi Freedom" vet. Thank you Cynical for another well-presented video. Just so much blood and treasure lost...

@str.77 3 ай бұрын

I applaud the video for being titled "Why did the USA JOIN the Vietnam War?", making it clear that that war was going on before America got involved.

@Larkinchance 3 ай бұрын

I was in high school in 1966. It seemed like everyone was getting drafted. My classmates were "Gong-Ho" about going to Viet Nam and went without even looking on a map to see where it was... Many of them never came home... Years later I heard that they using zip codes to draft individuals and if you lived in a wealthy neighborhood, you didn't get called. Today, the Vietnam war is rarely mentioned. Thank you Cypher

@beejls 3 ай бұрын

The truth is if your parents had money they just sent you to college. Which was garbage.

@SandfordSmythe 3 ай бұрын

@@beejlsAfter 4 years?

@hdervish2497 3 ай бұрын

My grandpa finally got compensation LAST YEAR for severe agent orange related hearing loss from his time in Vietnam. Not only was the conflict itself a nightmare, the US govt completely dropped the ball in supporting those troops who made it home.

@ZeStreD 3 ай бұрын

Gotta love when a 30 minute video has been out less than 20 minutes and people are making snide comments that confirm they didn't actually watch the video.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

It's been less than an hour and I've already banned three conspiracists, including one who tried to say that LBJ started the war because he liked Bell helicopters 😵‍💫

@dinotsar6396 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorianWhat other narratives have the conspiracists spread? The things they come up with never cease to amaze.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

@@dinotsar6396 Mostly the whole calling the Gulf of Tonkin incident a "false flag" and blaming the military industrial complex for orchestrating events. Pretty cliché BS for people who're too unintelligent to critically engage with history

@rolanddeschain5161 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorian I thought we all knew George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola started the Vietnam War so they could have something to base their Heart of Darkness fanfic Apocalypse Now around?

@dinotsar6396 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorian Of course. What else would they claim?

@nedludd7622 3 ай бұрын

Though it is not strictly history, you may be interested in a novel written by a former North Vietnamese soldier Bao Ninh, "The Sorrow of War". It deals with personal experiences. Few have ever read anything from that point of view. I read it over 20 years ago. Maybe you would be interested in addressing the US military contacts with Mao during WWII.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Sad thing is that I'm to the point now that I'm basically doing "learn-test-forget" with each episode. I have to immediately move on to the next topic. Considering I'm months ahead of release, I completed this topic in late November. Plus, there's my scholarly studies, which require faaaaar more reading. My dissertation ain't gonna turn itself into a book, LOL

@woodsmand 3 ай бұрын

I think Harry Truman shares some of the blame in this. He normalized the idea that America could engage in "limited warfare" with his half hearted efforts in Korea and that got American politicians thinking it was okay to stick their nose in every conflict and if things got unpleasant we could just quit playing any time we felt like it.

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

I 100% agree, but that style of American intervention goes back even further to historically applauded Presidents like Teddy Roosevelt. Just ask Gen. Smedley Butler.

@woodsmand 3 ай бұрын

@@john2g1 Yeah but in his day everybody was into military adventurism, this is POST world war 2...

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

@@woodsmand That's doesn't make it anymore moral, ethical, or generally correct though. It was post Civil War and every was intimately aware of the consequences of warfare.

@woodsmand 3 ай бұрын

@@john2g1 Well i never said any of that so i don't know why you went there. The stakes of war became A LOT higher after world war 2 than they were before it . Teddy Roosevelt didn't have mass bombing raids, chemical or nuclear weapons when he fought in Cuba. It was much easier to romanticize war before the two world wars than it was after them.

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

@@woodsmand My apologies for jumping to conclusions on your argument. That said romanticized may I remind you the Civil War just happened. Weapons of mass destruction? The US civilian population helped slaughter many million bison for the exclusive purpose of starving several populations to death. I'll take a blinding flash over that every time. I might not be able to convince you of my position, but I hope you give it some thought.

@oldgeezerproductions 3 ай бұрын

Finally there is a short documentary that succinctly and accurately tells the ugly truth of why so many lives of my generation were destroyed and so many others were damaged. I was caught up in this horrible and unrighteous mess. For my age, I was pretty well read and so I absolutely did NOT support that war, but I was caught in the unmerciful and deadly jaws of the draft in 1966. Not wanting to be put in a situation where I would use my recognized and excellent marksmanship skills for killing people who were defending their country (from young men like me !!), I joined the Navy, where I found that the moral (and morale) rot had infested itself there too. I went into the Navy saying to myself that I would serve with honor as the best seaman that I could be. The low-life stupids, that made up most of the Enlisted Navy of the Vietnam Era, quickly showed me the folly of that attitude and changed me from "a motivated young serviceman" to a guy who obeyed orders and did his duty to the letter of the law, but WANTED OUT, OUT, OUT JUST AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (along with an Honorable Discharge, of course), but hating every minute I was in uniform. To this day, I am glad that I did not know of or had heard Martin Luther King's antiwar speech or I would have volunteered to go to jail rather than serve in ANY branch of the US military of the time, even serve in the Navy. By the way, I absolutely DID NOT want to be killed or badly damaged in an unrighteous cause, matched in unrighteousness only by the cause the South fought for during our Civil War. By the way,. after the experience of Vietnam, I was absolutely astounded, ASTOUNDED (!!) that our (Republican, 'stupid Bush' led) government, with the support of those who should have known better among the Democrats, led us into the equally stupid, but even more stupidly fictitious Iraq War and further led us into "The Land Where Empires Go To Die" (AKA Afghanistan). Gee, doesn't even the United States and its people have the brains to learn from such great mistakes??? Obviously not and if that isn't something to despair about, I don't know what is.

@daemonspudguy 3 ай бұрын

I personally say the Vietnam War started in 1955 when the US first sent some troops into Vietnam and ended after the Fall of Saigon.

@therealuncleowen2588 3 ай бұрын

Both my parents served in the US Army in Vietnam. Mom was an army nurse. Neither ever gave too much thought to the reasons the USA was fighting there at the time they served. Mom served to help the wounded, she was a nurse and felt that a year in Vietnam was where she could do the most good at the time. My father was career enlisted army who by the time of Vietnam had some medical training and served most of his time in hospitals also helping wounded. Dad said later that the South Vietnamese simply didn't care enough about who won the war. If they had, they'd have stopped the north during the 1975 invasion. We left them with lots of weapons and equipment and had spent years training their army. That was dad's opinion and he died long before 9/11. Afghanistan fell in much the same way as South Vietnam. We could have stayed in both locations longer but no matter how long we stayed, those nations would have collapsed militarily soon after we left. The lesson we should learn is that if we get involved (sucked into) a war in another country, we need to quickly guage how much the people of that nation believe in the cause we are supporting and how many are willing to fight. If the answer is obviously not enough, then we need to get out as soon as possible. OTOH, if enough are willing to fight, then we should support them. Korea and Ukraine are two situations much different than Vietnam and Afghanistan where our involvement did make a positive difference. I'm not saying we should send troops into Ukraine, but the weapons and ammo we have sent have been put to good use by a people that are clearly very committed. We should keep supporting Ukraine with enough for them to get back their land. This will also prevent China from attacking Taiwan, because they'll see that we won't allow evil empires to take land from free people. The cost of not supporting Ukraine now will be astronomical compared to the cost of sending them weapons now. This is even with just a purely selfish view. If we consider that Ukraine is good and Russia is evil and helping Ukraine is also the right thing to do, that's all the more reason to help Ukraine.

@Oxtocoatl13 2 ай бұрын

In their defence, the South Vietnamese troops were living in a military dictatorship that was so corrupt they barely saw those weapons. I think the mistake in Vietnam from the get go was relying on unpopular strongmen to run the show locally.

@MrGouldilocks 3 ай бұрын

Answer: It's complicated

@starmaker75 3 ай бұрын

I mean on actually fighting the Vietnamese, then yes we lost. However by making Vietnam an ally, we won in a way

@tauhidershadKUFNAFLORAN 3 ай бұрын

It's not complicated. It’s actually really simple. Big & powerful country wanting to be a big & powerful bully.

@douglasfur3808 3 ай бұрын

Ho was more complex than a "communist". Even though he was a founding member of the French communist party he was a nationalist first. That he was retired by the hard-core communists speaks to that. He was also a baker who worked at the Parker House in NYC. He may have had an openness for Americans from that experience and from his contact with the OSS. All though he may have been attracted to the US as the superpower furthest from his home. His alliance with the Chinese, the traditional enemy of Vietnamese independence, was definitely a last resort. A question for history: 1. How many wars has the US been sucked into that really were civil wars in which we had no stake? We always seem to find "national interests" to rationalize our involvement. With a junta in Bolivia threatening to nationalize tin mines we couldn't let the dominoes in Indochina fall and let Malaya's tin fall into commie hands. We couldn't let Allende mess with Chilean copper, oops a coup.

@jerryle379 3 ай бұрын

Le Duan is similar to Ho Chi Minh , he was a nationalist then a communist , his action after the Vietnam war proved that ( after 1975 reform the south Vietnam economy , basically destroy the Chinese grip on southern Vietnam economy , then china try to made Vietnam step in line by using they groon aka Khmer Rouge to harras our southern border to made us chose side either follow china or china will made us a living hell by using they groon harras the southern border and even invade it once they finish building up Khmer Rouge capacity , we didnt chose china instead allied with soviet and remove they groon in Cambodia.

@shatterquartz 3 ай бұрын

British author Graham Greene predicted the tragic consequences of US involvement in Vietnam as early as 1955, in his novel The Quiet American. Interestingly, when it was first made into a movie in 1958, the message was turned on its head and the title character became the good guy. It was adapted again, more faithfully this time, in 2001, but the producers shelved it for a year as they felt that a cautionary tale about meddling in foreign countries' affairs wasn't what US audiences wanted in the wake of 9/11.

@TorvusVae 3 ай бұрын

Cypher using a still from a Chick tract to subtly poke fun at America is hilarious to me

@restingsithface 3 ай бұрын

Your vids are always worth watching to the end for the King Richard cameos. What a diva!

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

He interrupted so much on this episode that i had to put some of it in a video that I recorded later that day. I've got an hour long episode that was 4 hours of recording and he interrupted for 25 minutes of that. Funny thing is King is actually a fairly mellow cat most the time, he's simply learned to be a nuisance as soon as I start recording

@vortimerofkent128 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorian Chaotic-good boy.

@daemonspudguy 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistoriancats truly are the natural enemies of productivity.

@douglasfur3808 3 ай бұрын

The logic of cats. Why ever would you want to talk to a microphone and stare into a camera when you've got ME?

@daemonspudguy 3 ай бұрын

@@douglasfur3808 funnily enough, my dog operates the same way.

@tomhalla426 3 ай бұрын

H. R. McMaster argued that Robert S. McNamara totally misread the Cuban Missile Crisis, and thought that gradual pressure would communicate resolve to the Russians. Aside from the minor little fact the PRC had more influence with Ho Chi Minh, and by that time despised the Russians, Ho was willing to take WWI level casualties to win. And Ho’s successors did not share his fondness for the Chinese, and returned to traditional Vietnamese nationalism.

@jerryle379 3 ай бұрын

This , Le Duan and Ho Chi Minh was never truly pro china or soviet , they are both nationalist first and foremost and pro Vietnam , they will milk both the soviet and china and when one faction was too pro of soviet or china they will crack down on them ( example : crack down on pro soviet faction and pro china faction happen all the time during ho and le Duan period )

@jerryle379 3 ай бұрын

The problem is China after 1973 ( after making peace with america and beginning to build an alliance with the american ) start pushing Vietnam more to toe in line with them aka cut ties with soviet, follow china they lead which we didn't like , Viet never like being order around by foreigner , doesn't help china using Khmer Rouge puppet to pressure us ( raiding our southern border )

@heathercontois4501 3 ай бұрын

Okay, by the end of the intro I want to blame Teddy Roosevelt. Was not disappointed that you started it where it actually started-France.

@john2g1 3 ай бұрын

Hah! I made that same correlation in a different comment just a few seconds ago. America (assuming you people are American) needs to come to grips with *all* of its history. No more triumphalism and sugar coating; the real deal history. Otherwise we're doomed to repeat it.

@stephenwright8824 3 ай бұрын

@@john2g1 The evacuation of Kabul proves we have already started repeating it.

@heathercontois4501 3 ай бұрын

@@stephenwright8824 We started repeating it in 1948. In 1994, when we chose not to intervene in Rwanda to stop a g3nocide. In 1991, when we invaded another country because their leader didn't bow down to us, "the police man of the world" 🙄. We did it in Vietnam from 1954-1972 when we got involved in a civil war between indigenous Vietnamese peoples, their leadership factions and their colonizers...we never should have been their. The U.S. administrations simply can't leave well enough alone, or have the ba!!s to actually back the parties that should have their support-or even better- tell their allies they are being idiots and breaking international laws that we haven't ratified but the other party did.

@rienneant7607 3 ай бұрын

It's not where it started. You want a point of origin, if such things actually do exist, you have to follow the trail much, much farther : Roosevelt's plan to hand Indochina to Nationalist China, Japan's occupation of Indochina, China's own history with Vietnam...

@robertskubinski2971 3 ай бұрын

Always love your stuff. Thanks

@stephennootens916 3 ай бұрын

I remember as a kid being interested in The Vietnam war because I saw all the major war movies, like Full Metal Jacket and Platoon. As I grew older what got me I knew people who blamed the news media, the politicians, and the hippies for us losing and never admit that the the North beat us. I also heard people point to wars like Vietnam as their way of claiming America is evil. In truth I think we thought we were doing the right thing, from the average American view point it would have seemed to be that we were just standing up for the South. Our hearts were in the right place but we weren't told the whole truth all the time and we just picked the wrong people to back than like so often we convinced ourselves that we couldn't change course. It is in my view on of our major weaknesses as a nation. We see it in other wars we were involved with after Vietnam and we see it in policies to this day. We back people and even if they turn out to be evil we keep backing them because we are too stubborn to admit when we made a mistake.

@kyonkochan 3 ай бұрын

Even WWII starts to get murky when you consider a lot of stuff the Allies did would be considered "evil" or at very least "malicious neglect" by today's standards. While I'm always proud of the lives laid down to offer a sliver of freedom to people who were oppressed by the Nazis or Japanese, we also did many things we should be ashamed of. As a Canadian we built bombers that went on to purposely target civilians instead of military industry. We interned Japanese-Canadians without any reason. We asked Indigenous people to serve in our military and give them medals only for them to come home to reservations that are just as impoverished as a devastated Europe. One thing is for sure though. War. War Never Changes.

@stephennootens916 3 ай бұрын

@@kyonkochan US did the same thing with our Japanese citizen population which has been a major shame of ours. Two odd things to note history shows that the First Lady strongly disagreed with her husband's action behind close doors. Before the order was made she in fact did speeches against racism. The war for all that was dome wrong could in some respects also be seen as the match that started the civil rights movement.

@EGSBiographies-om1wb 3 ай бұрын

This was very informative. It was well worth my time to watch. Thanx for [posting this !!!

@VioletLeader 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for making this video, it has greatly increased my understanding on a topic that was, perhaps by design but more likely by sheer schedule of academic standards (Southern California student here), left out OR left foggy. A provoked reflection of thought follows: While you did not focus directly on the evacuation efforts themselves, it TIES IN to my lived reality as someone who lived in Orange County CA from December '96 until February '23, finishing out my childhood and teen years living amongst evacuated Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians, and their descendants. As a child/teen (and white), I knew a little about the methods in which they came, but I lacked deeper historical understanding. This likely continued to influence my personally experienced biases towards them (connected to the cultural conditioning in Orange County that made it acceptable to have such biases without examining them), leading to occasional misunderstandings. Yes, I had friends from many backgrounds, but I did not KNOW, and lived conditions and mores made it easy to NOT DESIRE to know, the truth and experiences they had lived; I was not able to fully humanize them nor empathize with their stories back then. Of course, I can empathize and humanize these days, but the more historical truth I find, the easier it gets. In short, this video has led to increased understanding which I will use to better understand and live with a group of people around me. (I still call OC home even though I don't currently live there.)

@MrUndersolo 3 ай бұрын

Reading The Portable Sixties Reader from Penguin, and I have read a few other books about the war ("Bloods" and Max Hastings' " Vietnam"). Glad to have e you back on this one!

@pinkballs1228 3 ай бұрын

Just starting my watch and I’m sure I’ll learn factors I never knew. You always make good informational videos and I see no reason why this one would be different

@pinkballs1228 3 ай бұрын

Done now, fire vid

@drewlovelyhell4892 3 ай бұрын

When my father transferred our old family photo albums to digital, One of them was a picture of my great grandad in his hospital bed, after being machine-gunned some weeks earlier in the Great War. Once enlarged, you could see how covered in scars and wounds he was, something we'd never noticed on the original photo. The most famous person in my family tree is explorer Dr David Livingstone. 😎 But the rest were mostly Scottish coal-miners! 😅

@IceAxe1940 3 ай бұрын

"Ain't no Vietcong ever call me the N-Word"-Mohammad Ali.

@procopiusaugustus6231 Ай бұрын

When clearing out my parents house I found a picture of Westmorland inscribed to my dad (who was a civilian honcho at the Pentagon) in the back of a closet. When I asked about it he laughed. He detested Westmoreland and told me the brass had detailed a full colonel (a neighbor) to follow him around and report if he was going to do something unusually stupid. I have the picture hanging in my office with pictures of Custer, Benedict Arnold and the Earl of Cardigan

@henricusholtman3883 3 ай бұрын

A nice, well researched video. I might comment that Vietnamese spelling seems to be vastly different from English spelling so that Nguyen I think is pronounced ‘win’, and Ngo is pronounced ‘o’, something I wouldn’t expect somebody who researches things by reading to know, perhaps next time get a native speaker to guide you through the names. From what I get of Vietnamese history, people there have been struggling for two millennia to gain independence from more powerful neighbors, usually China, and so any alliance between them was bound to be limited in scope. This is evidenced by the quick emergence of the Sino-Vietnamese war very quickly after Vietnam was reunited.

@DMasterplanL 3 ай бұрын

It's complicated. Yes, but, is it really?

@SpaceCase6valence 3 ай бұрын

Ever read the George Orwell short "Shooting an Elephant?"

@ladytremere85 3 ай бұрын

I love the cat outtakes, they're much needed after such a heavy topic.

@zinnmarx Ай бұрын

Putting this one on EdPuzzle! Good stuff from South Texas.

@fortpark-wd9sx 3 ай бұрын

As politically incorrect as it sounded, US did not join the VN war. The VN people in 1945 decided against restoration of colonial rule and kicked out attempts to restore colonial rule. After French attempts to restore colonial rule failed, the US practically invaded VN and installed a puppet regime. This regime. despite massive US support, that never stood on its own feet. The US military effectvely became an occupation force. Yes, a considerable number of Vietnamese did not want the Reds but the non-Reds were never able to present a viable alternative from 1945 to 1975.

@CuttinBlade 3 ай бұрын

United States learned so much from the Korean war they decided to do it again in Vietnam

@LucyBean42 3 ай бұрын

Every time someone says Blood and Treasure, I'm imagining US Generals trading +2 longswords for soldiers.

@jeffmorin1469 3 ай бұрын

An interesting fact, Aaron Bank was a US Army officer selected for the OSS to be trained in sabotage and parachuted into France during the war. He was selected due to his fluency in French, which was due to his mother, who had grown up in France. After D-Day he was eventually reassigned to work with insurgent groups in French Indochina. During this time, one of the leaders of a communist group asked him for six .45 caliber M1911 pistols. Under orders to assist all of our allies, Bank provided the weapons. Supposedly, this is in part what helped cement Ho's leadership of the group. After the war, Bank had returned to the US and continued serving in the Army. Based upon his experiences with assisting foreign groups and insurgents, he created a design for a unit consisting of twelve man teams. the twelve man "A Detachment" would be led by a Captain, assisted by a Lieutenant, with two specialists each in heavy weapons, light weapons, demolitions, medical and communications. He called this organization Special Forces.

@theshenpartei 3 ай бұрын

I have been to the traveling version of the Vietnam war memorial wall which is a smaller version of the wall in dc.

@RICHIELUXURY 3 ай бұрын

The military industrial complex

@mathewm7136 3 ай бұрын

...stick to simping in your echo chambers.

@mebeasensei 3 ай бұрын

6:32 Great map. Date?

@TheJsmitty85 3 ай бұрын

I’m surprised you didn’t start with Ho trying to meet with Wilson

@SuperINFINITY181 2 ай бұрын

The discussion of France in this video leads me to ask an unrelated question: Do you think you could do a video sometime discussing what’s called the 6 February 1934 crisis, also called the Veterans’ Riot? I first learned of this event by reading William L. Shirer’s eyewitness account of it in his 1969 book “The Collapse of the Third Republic,” and because I had read his book years before the events of January 6, 2021, I recognized immediately that January 6 was extremely similar. Please consider turning your attention to such a project at a time convenient to you; or, if such a video already exists, I hope you’ll refer me to it.

@soapmactabitch1970 3 ай бұрын

Recommend the read The Quiet American by Graham Greene

@EmielTalen 3 ай бұрын

You have taught me about the camels nose. Can you now please explain what a camels toe is? Ive heard it mentioned so often!

@beejls 3 ай бұрын

Ask your mother

@blazodeolireta 3 ай бұрын

Ho was an admirer of the US constitution, correct? Also, I'm reading McCoy's "shadows of american century": he describes the CIA drugs operations in Indochina.

@jerryle379 3 ай бұрын

Yes. He even send bunch of telegram letter to ask for american support again the French in 1945. All was ignore and the folk in Washington decide to support the french colonist to recolonize Vietnam.

@mra4521 3 ай бұрын

22:45 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🫡 (For the speech.)

@elementarystudios7821 3 ай бұрын

What is the song at the end of the intro?

@piccolopiccolo2513 3 ай бұрын

8:57 Wilson strikes again.

@dorkmoonblade4315 3 ай бұрын

What is the music used for most of video?

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

stock jazz from Epidemic Sound

@mebeasensei 3 ай бұрын

Did you mention the SEA treaty we signed? To help defend counties such as SV?

@robertdoran2976 3 ай бұрын

My dad was in the USA airforce and in 1963 he was stationed at Benwa or was it Benoit Airfoce base south Vietnam.He was there a year and for the rest of his career he was worried about being sent back until 1971.I often wonder what would have happened i f we never got involved in Vietnam

@fortpark-wd9sx 3 ай бұрын

For that to happen, it could have depended on events in Korea. MacArthur halting the advance north of Pyongyang and fortifying the line for the winter. CCP, which already said they would intervene if US crossed certain lines, moved in. However, they halted once they were nearing the defense line. A tense and cold winter but no shooting and bombing. The establishment would have been more confident and less likely to see all East Asian Reds as a monolithic bloc.

@jerryle379 3 ай бұрын

If america have support Ho and doesn't ignore his letter in 45 instead of the french , Vietnam in coldwar would stay neutral , using both soviet and america to built up our country , pretty much will be similar to Vietnam now day milk both china and america to our benefit while stay neutral.

@stephenwright8824 3 ай бұрын

It's spelled Bien Hoa. I know because my dad, a Hawaii trained M60 Huey door gunner, was stationed there himself.

@GelgoogJ 3 ай бұрын

Such a good cat

@lukaslambs5780 3 ай бұрын

As a young man, I can say that few things scare me more than being drafted into a war I hate.

@dirtmcgirt168 3 ай бұрын

2:00 correction troops famously left on April 30, 1975. I’m not sure how a war could be declared over before the troops all left.

@peterthegreat996 3 ай бұрын

And the man out was a marine Sargent major. I think they were the embassy security though. There were no American troops out in the field those last few months or previous years . The communists just rolled down the country.

@roberth9814 3 ай бұрын

How does Operation Beleaguer count as a war or conflict? The wikipedia article about it reads as more of a prolonged occupation.

@elgatto3133 Ай бұрын

And then we tried to leave but Kissinger said no

@ingaman 3 ай бұрын

Casual drop on how Wilson ignored Ho and... that's it? Really?!

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Ho was kinda just a random student. No one could reasonably expect any POTUS to take him seriously in 1919

@ingaman 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorian Aha! The extremely rare "nah actually Wilson was fairly justified in his actions here given the circumstances of the time" moment. Still wild that this could've significantly changed the course of history.

@MrTrees77 3 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure in the rest of that video that shows the Green berets, that green beret colonel who is in charge of those 400 men, said that he had never seen a more dedicated ruthless and capable fighting force then the Vietnamese (northern forces)

@daneater957 3 ай бұрын

Khrushchev stole of kiss from Ho Chi Minh. Based.

@philismenko 2 ай бұрын

its kinda funny how the vietnam war escalation is kinda like the domino effect it was trying to stop

@c.t.1755 3 ай бұрын

dont mind me. just some algorythmic work going on

@Sciolist 3 ай бұрын

So funny for Bangladesh to feature in falling dominos cartoon, considering role Americans played in it's early years.

@michaellust2030 3 ай бұрын

The United States blundered and stumbled into that war. How different things might have been had American diplomats seriously pressed France (and Britain) to abandon colonialism, to work for the genuine independence of small nations, at the end of WW2... instead of waffling between our stated ideals and short-term political expediencies.

@mbryson2899 3 ай бұрын

Nicely done, a perfect precis for those who only know the conflict through vague rumors and tales. Especially pertinent today, I'd say, as we get dragged closer to another conflict we have no legitimate business in. ps- The cats who own me say that your cat is asking politely for screen time. Politely for a cat, that is.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

King is royalty and therefore does not ask for anything, though he may politely demand

@michaeljebbett160 3 ай бұрын

LBJ is often blamed for escalating the conflict in Vietnam, and perhaps rightly so. That said, he inherited this war from teh prior two presidents, and his main focus was his War on Poverty, which was honestly his greatest achievement, and the legacy he should be remembered for. I fell that he was hoping that escalation would end the conflict sooner, so he could focus on his primary concern. Sadly, he and/or his advisors couldn't or wouldn't see that it wasn't the kind of conflict that could be won with overwhelming force. Not unless they were willing to commit even greater atrocities than were actually committed. Fortunately, the US (whether it wanted to or not) never crossed that line.

@mebeasensei 3 ай бұрын

20:37 1972 36K Koreans, 24K US troops in Vietnam. Didn't know that.

@jesseadair5564 3 ай бұрын

Didn't LBJ say he wouldn't send troops to Vietnam? "American boys shouldn't be doing what South Vietnamese boys should be doing themselves."

@stephenwright8824 3 ай бұрын

Hypocrisy is the only thing one should have expected from a man who's nickname in one of his previous jobs was "the Senator from the Pentagon."

@tomhalla426 3 ай бұрын

Plausibly, one could blame Wilson, for doing a failed intervention in the Russian civil war.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

More that Wilson failed to convene with Ho Chi Minh, who was there to meet with him in Versailles

@tomhalla426 3 ай бұрын

@@CynicalHistorian Wilson also offended the Chinese, in turning over German claims in China to the Japanese. And the Japanese, for not favoring an anti racism clause. Tommy Wilson was a nasty piece of work.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Indubitably

@thomaslinton5765 3 ай бұрын

We didn't know the Vietnamese had been fighting for their independence from China for about 4000 years.

@shaneupham2097 3 ай бұрын

I had a friend who lived in my building I think I was his only friend because I talked to him a lot and he served in Vietnam 1 of the many Canadians that went over. So to all the Vietnam vets north south French British American Canadian and so on I never once blamed the vets for Vietnam even though my parents and friends would bring up reasons why it was the vets fault.

@alancranford3398 3 ай бұрын

Another name for "the camel's nose" is Mission Creep.

@CynicalRebelGaming 3 ай бұрын

@The Cynical Historian, what are your thoughts on the concept that We were forced to fight the war with our hands tied because A we couldn't go boots on the ground in North Vietnam ( because of the Soviets and Chinese) B even the air war was limited in scope for a long portion of the war ( couldn't bomb North Vietnam for a while) and C we couldn't go after NVA camps in other countries ( officially) ? I commonly see these three comments whenever any history oriented channel talks about the Vietnam War

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Dunno. That's all interpretation

@Evan.01 8 күн бұрын

Not sure what you mean by not going into other countries? As in prior to the US invading Cambodia and Laos? (Not so fun fact, the US dropped _2 million tons_ of ordnance in Laos - a bomb *every 8 minutes, 24 hours a day, for 9 years straight.* This culminated in the death of _1/10th_ of the whole Laos population, as well as making it the most bombed country in history)

@nestcamo1181 3 ай бұрын

One word-Dien bien phu

@user-bj2sn2ff5i 2 ай бұрын

Of all of the many mistakes committed by the baby-boom generation of which I am a member, it was the invasion of Iraq in 2003 that stands head and shoulders above the rest. That it because it was started by baby boomers ( dubya Bush, et al) who were eye witness to the catastrophe that was Vietnam. Our friends, brothers, uncles went over there - suffered and died for nothing. All based on layer upon layer of deception. So you'd think a generation who experienced first-hand the results of an ill-advised foreign intervention, would shy away from such a thing. I knew when it started in early 2003 that it was going to be a repetition of what happened in SE Asia, but our baby-boomer leaders were unable to act on the experience of their own lives - they did the same things Johnson and McNamara did. Lied to themselves and the rest of us. It was the repetition of history - the nightmare was could not awaken ourselves from. First rate work Cypher!

@2Oldcoots 3 ай бұрын

LBJ said the American response "would always be measured", meaning we don't seek victory, and was a National Strategic Blunder.

@SandfordSmythe 3 ай бұрын

He had a likely belief that treaties existed that had trip wire clauses, and the war would escalate with no turning back.

@phoenixshadow6633 3 ай бұрын

Minor nitpick, but why do you refer to Ho Chi Minh and Bao Dai as Ho and Bao while Ngo Dinh Diem is referred to as Diem? Is it because that’s how the sources call him or is it because he had two famous relatives and calling him by his personal name is a means of differentiating him from them?

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Just going off of primary sources on that. I have no idea why they do that

@SoundsEpicMusic 3 ай бұрын

Can you do a good long video on the Korean War? I feel like no one talks about that absolutely horrific war. The US bombed the DPRK to moonscapes.

@jkfortyseven 2 ай бұрын

gah no wonder we get revised history to the extent we do, the attitude and language are exactly the same.

@CampusBoyFeet 3 ай бұрын

Idk guy, ppl like Kissenger, McNamara, Westmoreland were pretty ghoulish ppl

@MrTrees77 3 ай бұрын

It's really just sad that if we actually had a foreign policy that was based on the ideals that we say we are living by, and that wasn't just lip service told to the American people to justify our actions...... Ho chi Minh would have been an ally from the start, we never would have had this war, millions of people wouldn't have died, and all the money that we spent on bombs and bullets could have went into the space, race or something that would have been saving people's lives. But people are just so blinded by the propaganda. Rhetoric of freedom without the actual material conditions.

@ZackedOut 3 ай бұрын

Most history lovers on KZfaq have cats.

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

It's kinda a requirement

@MikeStand11 3 ай бұрын

I think even disabled vets would agree it was worth it for the movies.

@heathercontois4501 3 ай бұрын

Okay, my immediate answer to your title question is-money-but I will listen to what you found out so I know the rest.

@mr51406 3 ай бұрын

Excellent overview analysis! 🌟 I highly recommend this extensive CBC documentary series from 1980 by Maclear and Arnett: kzfaq.info/sun/PL3H6z037pboFiRbJuCFSNxxZcu99vAihC&si=p1YTllDAgf9p8zZ1 Especially that it includes interviews with the likes of Westmoreland and footage from North Vietnam.

@SolRC 3 ай бұрын

Vietnamese / French food is the only good thing to come out of the colonization of that area. Its pretty amazing, not kill your neighbors good though.

@alancranford3398 3 ай бұрын

The USA "lost" its war in Vietnam on 2 November 1963.

@2Oldcoots 3 ай бұрын

Because LBJ was informed General Charles DeGaulle told our European Allies that the USA would not defend South Vietnam and therefore woldn't defend NATO. Never discussed, but there it is.

@josephpercente8377 3 ай бұрын

Fighting insurgencies in foriegn lands is hard. If the people and leadership of said country realize that the occupiers will eventually go home it's impossible. Washington and the colonies were one. Ho chi Minh and the vietnamese for better or worse was another. You don't have to win just not give up.

@republicempire446 3 ай бұрын

The SIGMA war games did reflect how Vietnam was complicated from a geopolitical standpoint. One claims Sigma-II 64 was prophetic but it was merely series of coincidences. The wargaming sessions during Vietnam War such as Taccspiel saw American troops did adjust to defeat PAVN and VC, but politico-military war games was flawed due to assumptions they had. There was a lot of confusion even from Hawks and Doves. Overall, Vietnam War remains one of the most complicated issues in American history even today that Vietnam remains America’s nightmare similar to Germania was Rome’s Nightmare. You are right that there should be no good vs evil narratives in history because there’s always complications in history.

@SungSam-hq8yl 3 ай бұрын

Be happy dear American!you was in Vietnam only 20 years and came home with 363220 wounded😢 French: i was there 80 years😊 Mongols:1258,1285,1287😅 Chinesse: Amateur !😂

@beejls 3 ай бұрын

France. Yup. No French person has a right to say anything to Americans about Vietnam or anything else, considering all the murders they committed in Viet Nam.

@brianbuch1 3 ай бұрын

Thank you Cypher. Do you think that the fact that the Diem government and other elements of the SVN power elite were Catholic rather than Buddhist affected JFK's policy choices?

@CynicalHistorian 3 ай бұрын

Doubt it

@Biga101011 3 ай бұрын

Honestly I am not a historian so don't take this as true, but I was thinking about the difference between the Korean and Vietnam wars a few days ago. It always felt to me that Korea was where we thought we were invincible after WW2 and charged headfirst into a conflict because of it. Vietnam always felt like something we let ourselves get drug into. It is good finding a video that actually goes over the history of it so I could educate myself a bit. I like history, but don't have the energy to put into the research.

@Biga101011 3 ай бұрын

Haha. An excellent wild Nietzsche.

@thomasridley8675 3 ай бұрын

I always love these hindsight views of history. 🙄 The war started the day politicians divided the country. Just like it did for Korea. And considering the outcome. The fear of the domino effect turned out to be quite real. Our only goal was in maintaining that separation. Which we did do in Korea. We expected Vietnam would be just a repeat of Korea. Giving S.Vietnam the same chance to become another S. Korea. But like Afghanistan, we backed a horse that wouldn't run.

@thommyneter168 3 ай бұрын

11:35 Khrushchev trying to commie kiss Ho Chi Min😅

@TheShadowChesireCat 3 ай бұрын

I mean, this is just looking at the USA interference in Vietnam. And French interference. If you analyse the history of Vietnam, with especially looking at the north of the country, there's a long history of resentment of foreign interference. Two of the national heroes of Vietnam are the two Trung sisters who helped repel an invading Han dynasty China. One of the sisters became Vietnam's first female monarch, allegedly. That was 40ish CE (or AD if you must). The USA (and Australia and NZ) is just part of a long string of people trying to interfere. Hence push back and resentment from some, some were grateful for the help. Who'd have thunk history was complex 😂?

@MyOrangeString 3 ай бұрын

You say that a single cause can't explain the whole of any historical event, then you conclude that Vietnam War was due to mission creep. You described "how" the war started, but not much why. I don't think you've answered the question you raised.

@beejls 3 ай бұрын

Mission creep is how, not why the war grew.