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The Titanic and the Nazis... This guy knows what the internet wants.

FYI, in german the "V" in Vaterland is actually pronounced as "F". It's as if you'd say "Fatherland" - Americans tend to say "V" like the "W" in "West" but this is so uncommon in the german language, that if in doubt, the "F" is just more likely to be correct.

I was a amateur maritime historian or more just passionate about it after years I thought I basically knew everything about major ocean liners never heard of this. Makes me so happy to have the feeling of learning something new.

German shipbuilding infrastructure was quite badly crippled in the aftermath of Versailles restrictions, in particular losing many of their larger slipways capable of building ships in excess of 600ft in length, while those that remained were utilised by naval construction in the 1930s build-up (being the only available slips for constructing anything of heavy cruiser size or larger). AG Vulcan’s Hamburg and Stettin yards lost their largest slips, and Schichau at Danzig and Howaltdstwerke in Kiel were similarly crippled. The supporting infrastructure for most of the largest yards was also subject to destruction by the orders of the Inter-Allied Commission of Control, meaning that the ability to fabricate frames, plates and other material at the yards was limited or eliminated entirely. Germany never quite managed to get back to the level of its vast pre-WWI shipbuilding industry, which even then was still far behind Britain’s.

A minor note: The _St. Louis_ was not powered by steam; she was a motor ship, and as such held the prefix "MS."

I expected to hear about Wilhelm Gustloff, but I discovered 2 projects unknown to me, so interesting anyway! Very good work!

Honestly, Italian ocean liners are some of my favorites. Absolutely beautiful ships like the Rex and Andrea Doria will basically live forever with how gorgeous their lines were

Omg finally a video about that topic! Love it! The Vaterland (2) is my favourite what-if ship if not my most favourite ship of all. You can clearly see she was designed by Yourkevitch. I inspected the deckplans and found many similarities to the Normandie. Her condition after the war wasn't that bad too. Sure she burned because she was used to store wood and the front deck was blown up. But I have a picture of her in a book and much was still there and she was floating. I don't understand why she wasn't given to for example Canadian pacific because the only thing that needed to be replaced was parts of her steel because she was empty.

If I’m thinking of the right ship, it was a Hamburg Amerika Liner named Viktoria. Beautiful ship, like all Hamburg Amerika liners. Edit: Never heard of Amerika or the second Vaterland, nice to learn something new.

It is always impressive that a young man like this is passionate about what he does. Keep up the good work!

The Vaterland had a gorgeous design. One of my favourites, even she never got to sail.

Any plans on a video about the Cap Arcona? It was the German liner that was used to portray the Titanic in the 1943 German propaganda film.

Just recently subscribed. I definitely appreciate the quality programs that you provide on here. I watch these videos over and over again... Can't seem to get enough information on this channel, very interesting and keeps me well entertained! Thanks again!

Great video! I might argue that Nazi Germany did make a move for the fastest Atlantic crossing, and succeeded by far with the Hindenburg. Sure it didn’t have the capacity of an ocean liner, but if the point was prestige and symbolism, Hindenburg was in a whole other league. I also imagine zeppelins would need less of a subsidy, just from logistics alone. When the Hindenburg exploded, there was already a sister under construction and another on paper. Such a tragic shame helium wasn’t used.

I was wondering since you focused on German ships can you make a video devoted to MV Willhelm Gustlaff? It was originally supposed to be a cruise ship and then it was used in the war efforts which caused such a horrible death to so many people many civilians included. Especially if you can shed some light on the design of the ship especially the interior and maybe compare it to the wreck and The controversy of the further damage the wreck had endured.

Both of these vessels were covered in the book DAMNED BY DESTINY, but it has probably been out of print for close to 40 years (I got my copy in early-mid '80's). I believe, though, an updated version has been printed, under a different title that I can't remember.

My best friend lives in Hamburg; he can almost see Blohm & Voss from his apartment. It blows my mind to see images from Operation Gamora, because it's completely different from the city I love and visit today. History sends chills up my spine like nothing else.

I was watching a different channel on a ship capsizing, but saw your video right below and immediately switched, I enjoy how you tell history/how engaging you are plus our teenager is a HUGE military history buff (on the evolution of equipment and how men like Hitler rise to power). I can’t wait to show him this video!

Great vlog as always! Norway did not have the biggest, fastest or prettiest but we had the Grand old lady of the north Atlantic the S/S Stavangerfjord. She sailed from Scandinavia to Canada and the U.S between 1917-1964! Her final duty? Hotel ship for the 1964 olympics in Tokyo! If you need some more info pls let me know. My father sailed in her. Keep up the good work! Be safe!

I hadn't heard of these two proposed ships til today, so thank you!

Fabulous review. I’d heard of the ship but didn’t know that it was so close to completion.

This was an excellent video. Learning so much from you especially history that I was never taught in high school (my high school was not very good). Keep 'em coming.

Great video and a really informative one. The ships in this video were really amazing.These designs are the ones that i would like to see. I always had a soft spot for german oceanliners in my heart, of course british oceanliners are legendary but there was something about these german oceanliners which always makes me just admire them all the time. i wish i could see all these oceanliners infront of me but thats not possible.keep up the great work and lots of support from india.

Thanks for uploading this intresting tidbit of oceanliner history. you are doing a great work in filling in the gaps . 👍👍👍👍👍👍

Really interesting video. Would love to see an Alt History featuring America/Viktoria. Maybe the Allies attempt to seize her and the crew scuttles they ship or maybe she is involved in Operation Hannibal only to fall prey to submarine and air attack. Her design is neat and I would love to see a full rendering. This prompted me to do cursory research other ocean liner designs of the late thirties that could have been if not for the intervention of World War II including a particularly hideous design concept for the French ocean liner Bretagne. Would love more content on never built ships.

Who built the SS St Louis then? The ship in the movie "Voyage of the Damned". It was destroyed in an air raid on Hamburg in 1943.

Wonderful work as always- the interwar German liners are quite interesting (I think the Patria had a oval lounge, flowing into a tea room with an opening glass ceiling - quite the image!) if not massive. The lidos on the HAPAG ships were stunning.

Great history lesson. Thank you for your in-depth research.

oceanliners and wwii have been two of my special interests for years, i am so glad i found this video, best of both worlds

Your happy smile never fails to cheer me! Thank you for the video! I live in hope of you creating a video about the old Marco Polo. It is quite amazing to me how little information there is about it. Yet it was a very popular ship in its day.

So nice to hear about that. Especially when you live in Bremen like me. AG Weser has/had such a big History here and so much Ships were build here. Sadly in the mid 1990's they went bankrupt and on the old area of the shipyard now is a Shopping Mall called "Waterfront", former "Spacepark" which was a huge fail. One of the few things that's reminds of the "AG Weser" is the a tram stop nearby, called "Use Akschen". It's Plattdeutsch (literally translated to flatgerman), a german dialect spoken in parts of northern germany, for "Unsere Aktien" (Our Shares) a nickname for the "AG Weser" as the AG stands for "Aktien Gesellschaft" (Public Company).

Oh wow, I am german and I am a ship fan, but I have never heard about those ships. I wish the Naziassholes would have never started this stupid war and the holocaust and instead would have realised all the ambitios buildings and vehicles they had in mind. I would realy like to see those ocean liners in real, not just on paper. Great video, thank you:)

As an Italian, I remember the Rex... it won the blue ribbon, was very modern in its design and was also the biggest ocean liner ever built in Italy up to the 1990s. It was hit by incendiary bombs in 1944 and was scrapped in the 1950s... such a tragedy. It served its propaganda purpose masterfully for years: unfortunately, he too was a casualty of the war.

Interesting fact in regards to the Nazis using the name “Amerika” for their super ocean liner. That was actually one of the first widely used code names given to Adolf Hitler’s personal train in 1940. The code name changed in 1943.

Must have been quite the metaphor for the people in Hamburg at the time, seeing the blown up Vaterland as part of their skyline.

As always, great video: Interesting, factual and fun. Thanks for the upload.

Would have enjoys to see how the superliner would have looked if completed. Great info and video thanks!

One thing that must always be remembered: Germany doesn't have a lot of resources, if the question is, 'why did *blank* not happen?' It is more then likely, resources.

A little known event took place when the battleship Bismarck's hull accidentally hit the passenger liner Vaterland, which was moored at an adjacent pier on the day the battleship was commissioned. The collision caused no damage but did bend Bismarck's flag staff. There are several pictures of the event that can be found online.

Very interesting information, and well-presented... but what I like best is the subtle shade! 😆

wow that first ship was a stunner

Really enjoying these documentaries. You mentioned the South American run for the Hamburg Sud Line. One of those liners on this run, was the Monte Rosa. At 13,882 GRT it was a lot smaller than the liners on the North America crossing. The ship was used by the German Navy as a recreation ship for the Tirpitz in the Norwegian Fiords. This was necessary as the Tirpitz only had accommodation for short forays into the North Atlantic. After a number of unsuccessful attempts to sink the Monte Rosa, the ship was handed over to the UK. Used as a troopship and renamed HMTS Empire Windrush, the ship carried some of the first immigrants from the Carribbean to the UK. Might make for an interesting subject for one of your documentaries?

I respect you for this!!! We must remember history as bad as it was...Germany had some beautiful ships!

If Ancient Architects and Oceanliner Designs got together...

Man that liner looks beautiful, with that funnel it looks very modern for its time

I hope this leads to another set of alt-history videos similar to the ones for Titanic and Britannic!

Realizing that it is technically off-topic, but also the only ship mentioned in your report that ever sailed a historically noteworthy voyage, I was a bit curious as to why you did not mention, regarding the St. Louis, the voyage referred to, and even documented in film, as the "Voyage Of The Damned" and the long-term impact its fate had in the chronicles of the time.

This is a great channel. I am also fascinated by ships. Subscribed.

I read somewhere that the QEII design was also influenced by the Normandie and on closer inspection I have to agree.

Excellent video as always Marc. I can't see the Victoria surviving far beyond the war, had it been built to it's original specs. A commercial liner requiring government fuel subsidies would not be popular on the market, and post-war Germany was hardly in an economic position to refit her or operate her. At best she would have been slowed to a crawl by reducing the powerplant and total propellers and sold to a cruiseline for pennies on the dollar. At worst she'd have been salvaged for her raw materials. (The latter more likely)

Vataland would definitely be the budget choice. But besides that I do not think most people would choose it for other reasons.

That was great. I always love how you well-dressed in your videos.

Very nice video. It was quite enjoyable!

There might not have been any german super ocean liners, but the stories of some of their "smaller" ships is still quite interesting and even tragic. The "Saint Louis" mentioned in the video was involved in a quite disgraceful and tragic story shortly before the outbreak of WW1. It transported german Jews emigrating (fleeing) from Germany, but no nation wanted to grant them asylum, so the "Saint Louis" had to undertake a thousands of miles long odyssey through the Carribean and back to Europe. Some passengers were finally granted asylum in Britain and France, but some were still murdered in the Holocaust later on. Another story involves the NDL's "Columbus", which had been laid down before the outbreak of WW1 and was only finished in 1924, being the only big ocean liner that remained in german service at the time. In late summer of 1939, she was crusing around in the Carribean when she received the order to sail to a neutral port. After several failed attempts she was interned in Veracruz in Mexico, but was finally given the order to attempt a "breakthrough" to Germany, against the wishes of her captain. Outside of US waters, she was confronted by a british warship and scuttled herself. And then there ate of course the tragic stories of the "Cap Arcona" (also mentioned in the video) and the "Wilhelm Gustloff", a cruise liner build by the Nazis. In April of 1945, the "Cap Arcona" was turned into a prison ship for concentration camp inmates, who suffered from truly hellish conditions, perhaps only comparable to the infamous japanese POW ships. She was then tragically bombed by RAF planes on the 3rd of May 1945, only a few days before the end of the war in Europe. Between 6000 to 7000 camp inmates/prisoners died in the sinking of the "Cap Arcona" and other prison ships that day, many of them burning to death, drowning or being shot by british planes and german soldiers. The "Wilhelm Gustloff" transported thousands of german refugees across the Baltic Sea, fleeing from East Prussia. On the 30th of January 1945, she was sunk by a soviet submarine, resulting in the death of perhaps as many as 9000 (!) people. To this day, this is the deadliest sinking of a single ship in all of naval history.

Great show Mike! Those are two German ships I never knew about and it's a wasted day if you don't leaarn something new. Viktoria MIGHT have given Normandie and Queen Mary (and later the Queen Elizabeth) a real run for their money if there hadn't been a war. Vaterland? Not so much, that one strikes me a strictly a workhorse, not a racehorse. Built to do a job and do it well but without any panache. Thanks for posting! You know, by his birthday in 1939 Hitler was sitting on top of the world, starting a war was just plain stupid. He had everything he wanted but it still wasn't enough. He took his superb military machine for a test drive around the block and in the end put it and his country in the ditch.

Another brilliant episode .

I find these ships fascinating, the ones that never were. Did you know there was not one, but TWO finished beautiful 30,000grt Swedish American Line Stockholm’s built in the 30’s? So hard to find info on them, they were stunners for sure. Interesting to note they were built in Italy, who would later lose their Andrea Doria to the next Stockholm.

Please, please do a "what-if" video of Viktoria! Considering the relentlessness of the Nazi propaganda machine, I wonder what her interiors might have looked like - the contemporary Art Deco, the Neo-Classical (as reflected in Speer's 'New Berlin' city renderings), or a fusion of both. While the Germans have long been known for their mechanical prowess, it would have been a real challenge for them to compete with the likes of the Normandie in terms of aesthetics.

Never heard of this at all, very interesting!

Nice and informative video. I think the Vaterland was a neat design and the Viktoria had design flaws in regard of the engines. Maybe you should have a look at Germany's saddest cruise ship the Wilhelm Gustloff.

Yeeeaaahh such great content! Keep it up Mike Brady! Still waiting for a QE2 video (or is it too new for your tastes?)

Good report as always sir

A more interesting question is what was Viktoria's planned running mate, these ships were usually built in pairs, so that operators could have ships crossing the Atlantic in both directions (e.g. One would head to the US, the other would head to Gemany.) in the case of the British the whole Cunard/White Star situation complicated things, the loss of the Lusitania also affected this, until the Queen Mary was built in the 1930s Mauritania didn't have a proper running mate since from memory the Aquitania (A good subject for a future video) was not intended as a fast runner.

Amerika/Victoria would have been amazing; 5 props!

Being interested in Naval WWII Warfare, i did realize that the Nazi Government actually planned to convert TS Bremen and TS Europa (TS stands for turbine ship) into Aircraft carriers. But due to the reversal of plans to construct u-boats instead of capital ships and the fear to loose such a capital ship lead to a halt on that (not to mention that one of those turbine ships was lost 1941 to fire anyway). Sooo, would Vaterland II had been finished earlier, i am pretty sure it would have been used for the wareffort and might just have been sunk as other ships were. If it had been lucky, it might have survived the war such as the other TS did, only to be scrapped in the late 50ties. Serving in a country occupied with reconstruction and the growing competition of Airplanes won't feed the needs of such a big vessel. Simple as that.

Germany did build an impressive ship in called the "Berlin" in 1925. The ship later sank in 1945 and it was beached but the Soviets refloated the ship and it continued to sail for over 40 years. The ship was over 60 years old when in 1986, the ship sank again. This time over 400 people died in the black sea.

The only channel that i use the bell on is yours. I love your videos 😁

This is the perfect example of an interesting ocean liner content.

Great Video. Thank you.

Excellent, it does beg the question though, wit Europa and Bremen, were more liners needed?

ss vaterland looked very well proportioned I wonder would they have named the other 2 liners imperator and bismarck

Love the video as always, and I'm sure i might not be the only one to mention this but wasn't the Wilhelm Gustloff an ocean liner completed under Nazi Germany? I might be wrong on my Terminology of it being an ocean liner for all I know, that being said a video on its life and fate would certainly be an interesting topic for a future video I think given its the worst maritime disaster in history if my memory serves!

Keep up the good work!

Small nitpick. The P.1000 was known as the “Ratte” (Rat), not the “Monster.” The P.1500 Monster was a completely different project, basically a Schwerer Gustav railway gun on a tracked chassis instead of rails.

Excellent video! Do you ever intend to draw out the Amerika as it would've looked, in the same tradition as the Olympic or Titanic artwork that you've produced? Also, just a tidbit here if it helps anyone: From what I understand, some of the most basic foundations of Nazi Ideology was rooted in a study of America, and the theory that America was rich and powerful because it had wide "uninhabited" lands with plenty of resources to extract. The key, in Hitler's mind, for German hegemony was to achieve the same thing in Europe. To Nazi party members, "Amerika" being enormous and dominant would be an example of what Germany could and would (in their mind) become through Nazi agression.

*FIVE* propellers on a ship design that big...?! Never knew of any vessel having 5 props, as far as I know. And fake smokestacks??? This is the 1st time I've become aware

Fun fact Germany holds the distinction of building the first four funneled ocean liner the Kaiser Wilhelm der Große one of four Kaiser-class liners. This led to Cunard building the Mauritania-class and then White Star to then respond with the Olympic-class with Brittanic being the last four stacker to be built. It’s crazy yo think how absolutely monstrous the Amerika would’ve been if the Germans had actually built her. It’s a shame that once again war got in the way of the German shipbuilders from showing their true potential in building such massive ships.

Truly "What Ifs"....Fascinating👍

A fascinating history and what a beautiful ship the "Vaterland" would have been. I'm curious though, as to why younger commentators always refer to the "Queen Mary" and don't seem to remember the 'Queen Elizabeth" which was slightly larger and of roughly the same speed. It is true that the latter didn't enter the Transatlantic service until after WW2 but when I was a boy, while they were often mentioned together, the "Queen Elizabeth" was possibly the best known as she was largest ship in the world for decades. Certainly they were both well remembered here in Sydney when so many Australian soldiers left for the Middle East on them.

Thanks for another great video. How about making a video about Bremen and Europa? I would especially like to know how to tell them apart.

I like to think that in Kaiserreich (an alternate history mod of Hearts of Iron IV where Germany wins WWI) one or even both of these fascinating ships get to see the light of day. Maybe Vaterland II also has one or two sister ships built to replace the Imperator-class?

The first picture looks like the type of picture I'd take on my Nintendo 3DS.

*That tank looked insane.* 🤯 Really cool to see you do a video on these two liners that never were, as they're among the most fascinating. To give my thoughts on them: Viktoria - whose name I now understand to be German for "victory" and not in reference to Her Majesty the Queen - was easily my favorite of the two and is one of the greatest liners proposed. It's a shame she was never built in some way, shape or form. She looked a _bit_ odd - guess that single giant funnel was just throwing me off a bit - but oh boy she would've been a beast. She almost certainly would've given the United States a run for her money. Vaterland, I'll admit, I'm not really a fan of. Similar reason as to why I'm not crazy about the America either, even though that one was a fine ship and I have the utmost respect for her. The ship was just too small and stout for my liking, and in my opinion, not the best choice to bear the German name for "fatherland" after the original 950' leviathan. On one hand, she and her two sisters (I'm inclined to think they would've been referred to as males like their predecessors, but since I don't know that I'll just stick with she) probably would've been very successful, providing a steady, economical service between Germany and America. But on the other hand, not being world beaters, I doubt they would've stood out against the likes of superliners such as the two Queens and the Normandie. I guess I know what side I'd be on if faced with whether to build a pair of smaller liners or a single superliner. Nonetheless, it was a huge shame she was never completed, especially since she was actually launched. So close. I'd love to see an alternate timeline on what if either one or both ships were built. Preferably Viktoria though. You ought to cover more unbuilt liners like the Super-Oceanic or Theodore Ferris' twin Leviathans someday. :D

Well done research.

adore your videos, your a gem on KZfaq :)

There were three sister ships that NDL built during the Nazi period. They were the SS Scharnhorst, Potsdam and Gneisenau. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Scharnhorst_(1934)

You are very well informed.

Excellent presentation. Well done. To your question: If either or both of these ships were completed prior to the outbreak of WWII, I suspect at least one ship would have made a trans-atlantic trip or two. After that, either hostilities would cause the vessels to be hold up in Germany or used as supply ships for the Atlantic raiders. If the ocean liners were used in the Atlantic, I doubt such noteworthy vessels would escape detection and destruction for long. I can see them interning themselves to avoid destruction and then taken as prizes after the war. If the ships were hold up in Germany, I can see them being used as troop transports on the Baltic. The ships would have a longer service life in this second possibility, but I see their fate as being far worse as the communists would either sink the ships during the fighting as a result of combat or the communists would sink the ships after the war for target practice or break them up for salvage.

maybe outside your wheelhouse but would you consider making a video detailing the Franklin Expedition?

What surprises me is that the new Vaterland was planned as a ship with different classes. Because straight class differences did not exist on German ships of that time. Everyone should have the same status. Also, these large ocean liners were mostly used as emigration ships, but that was not in the German interest at all. By the way, there were many smaller German cruise ships. Especially the Monte class ships have achieved much fame among passengers. By the way, Ukrainian students also served as crew on the Monte Olivia. Amazing, isn't it?

Dont forget the wonderfull modern and elegant Wilhelm Gustloff / Robert Ley class! These elabourate single class cruise / liner ships were the ships of the future, they might have build them larger and faster for transatlantic service. Did you know that they even planned ships and planes with nuclear power propulsion?

In addition to any comparison to the Queen Mary and Normandie, I'd add the question of what impact the Viktoria would have had on the design of the United States. With a 35 knot service speed a reality, what would Gibbs have done to make a better liner?

What about the Wilhelm Gustloff? She was Built in 1937 she was in service for about a year, and was 684 ft long. Admittedly she wasn't a trans-Atlantic liner but a pleasure cruise liner.

I'd imagine that if either or both were built, they'd have likely completed very few if any transatlantic voyages until after the war when, like the Imparator class before them, they'd have been handed over to British and American companies.

I just love you're videos

are u gonan do a drawing of the oceanic iII?

Cheers for this!! If the Vaterland had been completed and used as a troop or hospital ship, maybe the war would’ve gone on a little longer or taken a turn in another direction. Churchill estimated that the Cunard “Queens” shortened the war. I wonder, could Germany have been more successful, if given utility of such ships? Possible food for thought in aid of another “alternate history” episode…

I think I would move the funnel on the proposed America liner towards the stern rather than up front. Doing so will keep the large upper deck clear of smoke. As it is, that open deck is under the cloud of smoke. what say you?

These designs were impressive.