Why Do We Need Cycling Endurance Training? Does it really help FTP and VO2Max?

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EVOQ. BIKE

EVOQ. BIKE

Күн бұрын

This was a great Cat 4 Question emailed in. We've all heard the analogies about pyramids and foundations, but let's look at what is really going on, and then HOW it affects your FTP and VO2Max.
To be brief, yes, riding endurance will help you with those really hard efforts.
Here's his question:
Why does base, or endurance cycling, matter? All through athletics the answer I get has always been an analogy about building a house or a pyramid; something to the effect of, “the wider the base the higher the peak.”
I think I gleaned the answer from a 5 second trainer road podcast statement, “the harder an adaptation is to gain, the longer it takes to lose.” I take this to imply that aerobic adaptations take the longest to improve, but will be kept the longest. This in combination with a Stephen Seiler statement that almost all efforts over 60s are primarily aerobic leads me to believe: Base is important because almost every effort requires some combination of the aerobic and anaerobic systems with the former being the primary contributor. Therefore building a large base is critical to overall long term improvement in almost all levels of performance.
If I’m right - great, it would be nice to hear this stated plainly somewhere. Then maybe people will stop skipping endurance rides! If I am wrong - great! I am glad I asked. 12 years in endurance sport and I have always received an analogy as an answer, absent an explanation.
Here is my answer, but full reply in the video:
If you go back and look at physiological adaptation of training (this chart is not 100% accurate) from zone 1-7, some highlighted areas that zone 2-3 hit are:
increased mitochondrial enzymes
increased muscle glycogen storage
increased lactate threshold
interconversion of fast twitch muscle fibers from long rides
Enhanced capillarization in the muscles: They help to connect your arteries and veins in addition to facilitating the exchange of certain elements between your blood and tissues.
Development of slow-twitch muscles fibers
Trains body to more efficiently use fat as primary fuel source.
Ultimately, these endurance rides contribute to improved aerobic capacity (vo2max), lactate threshold and muscular endurance
Reduced VLamax (maximal lactate building rate). The higher your vlamax, the sooner you experience build up of blood lactate accumulation,and therefore fatigue sooner at a lower % of vo2max than a similar cyclist with a lower vlamax
Threshold riding achieves this at a greater effect, but we can only do some much FTP work, plus it's way more fatiguing. So you can get a lot of quality, insanely good endurance quality!, and a low cost to the rider.
THAT SAID, to get the greatest effect, the rider really needs to progress from 3 to 4h rides, optimally hitting 5 and 6….can utilize high torque to stimulate this
So who cares? Why base?
Almost every effort has a LARGE component of aerobic work. Take a look at a power file from a savage pro/1 RR...it will be very hard to handle those watts if you haven't really trained your body for a long time.
Why do people skip the endurance rides or easy aerobic work? These types of rides are hard to measure in terms of metrics, like putting a value on biologic durability. These will surely be figured out down the road, but for now, it is intangible and hard to put an exact WHY to it.
Which is why I believe so many people just pass on it. They don't spend the time on something that they can't read about and grasp tangibly or in terms of metrics.
Lastly, some things to consider:
Have you tried LactiGOOO yet? www.lactigo.com/brendan
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Have a great week and good luck with your training!

Пікірлер: 94
@joe1071
@joe1071 4 ай бұрын
More specifically you are training your type 1 muscle fibers to use lactate as fuel, and the better you train them the more efficient they get and the more efficient you are at clearing lactate. A great example of this is Dean Karnazes. Has completed some incredible endurance feats. They tested him in a lab and found he burns lactate as fuel at an incredible rate and just doesn’t build up lactic acid, and his threshold for feeling fatigued, sore, etc is off the charts, aiding him in seemingly running forever
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 4 ай бұрын
great point! that guy needs a bike though ;-)
@craigg9742
@craigg9742 3 жыл бұрын
Brendan - Great summary and video. I am always amused by conversations on forums and IRL about the importance of 'base' without understanding what the actual goals and expected adaptations are from long endurance rides. I, personally, dislike the LSD moniker as a #nocoast endurance ride is not slow and is definitely challenging. In addition to the expected adaptions I have found that by pushing my long ride out to 4hrs 3x/month, I haven't had a huge FTP increase, but my ability to do hard (above FTP) efforts late into rides has improved, my ability to repeat hard efforts has improved and just in general fatigue resistance is much better.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Nice work on the longer rides!!! Repeated efforts later in the ride is a big gain, solid work Craig !
@AdrianVaju
@AdrianVaju 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, that make a lot of sense. You just convince me to change a 1.5h hard session with a 6h endurance ride.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
6h ride 🤤🤤🤤. I need one of those soon. Crush it Adrian!
@jonnyallen9288
@jonnyallen9288 3 жыл бұрын
Really great summary and approach. Sums up what I'd been trying to understand for a long time. More of these please!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Glad it helped. What other topics would be helpful? Let me know here or shoot me an email. Thanks! Brendan@EVOQ.BIKE
@jordywilliams
@jordywilliams 3 жыл бұрын
‘Training for the new alpinism’ and ‘Training for the uphill athlete’ By Scott Johnston and Steve House are 2 books that go into the details of exactly what endurance training does and why basing most of your endurance training on steady, easy hours is essential to all endurance athletes.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
hey Jordy, thanks for the heads up on these books; going to look into them. Thanks so much!
@rileywoodruff7955
@rileywoodruff7955 3 жыл бұрын
Best cycling chan on KZfaq. Can't believe you don't have more subs! Will do what I can to help you grow!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Haha! Thanks for the kind words and for sharing it! Much appreciated. We are still new so hopefully the subs do grow!
@flavforpar
@flavforpar 11 ай бұрын
Great information! Thankful for your videos
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 11 ай бұрын
thanks Flavio! glad they are helpful! good luck with your training
@dhldt1021
@dhldt1021 3 жыл бұрын
Great explanations Brendan
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
thanks for checking it out!
@joerenner8334
@joerenner8334 2 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. Thank you!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 2 жыл бұрын
you're welcome! thanks for swinging thru!
@stevenolechny1049
@stevenolechny1049 3 жыл бұрын
Great content, as always Brendan.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the kudos Steven! Appreciate the note and thanks for giving it a watch. Good luck out there!
@TrkJustin
@TrkJustin Жыл бұрын
Responding to every comment, what a beast. I liked the video
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
haha!! I see you! Let's goooo! Thanks for checking it out!
@asablack1407
@asablack1407 3 жыл бұрын
Such a great video, no shortcuts to build endurance!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
thanks Asa!! No shortcuts for sure!! Hope the training is going well!
@CaioDoll
@CaioDoll 3 жыл бұрын
thanks, well explained
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for checking it out Caio!
@LyfeisByke
@LyfeisByke Жыл бұрын
Great content! The longer and more frequent z2 rides have changed the game for me. Z2 also made my intensity days easier to complete with much higher quality. Listen to Peter Attia (the drive podcast) episode 201 with Iñigo San Milan on a great breakdown of the importance of zone 2 for endurance athletes.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
awesome! glad they are working for you!
@veathlete
@veathlete 3 жыл бұрын
The best explanation I've seen yet, thank you Brendan! Here's a question for another day...what's the best way to ride with HR only on the road to ensure the correct endurance vs hard efforts mix? A power meter is on my to buy list, but only when the price comes down. Also, would you go with a single sided vs waiting for dual sided power meter to lower in price? I guess in general, what the best way to gauge endurance efforts on the road sans power data? John
@jonnyallen9288
@jonnyallen9288 3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to know this too, rough idea of HR zone vs 65-75% FTP?
@crazylagggs
@crazylagggs 3 жыл бұрын
@@jonnyallen9288 I've been using HR and power for couple of years now. Single sided is all you need, dual is overkill unless you're like pro level and focused on efficiency. When I ride 65/75% FTP I'm in zone 2 heartrate ( 120-140 bpm - max 183 heartrate so also 65-75% of max HR; I'm at 3.9 W/kg - FTP 283)
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
hey guys! sorry I missed this question earlier. Chaka nailed it...I usually see about the same range, 120-140... good luck to all in their training!
@TracKnGravelDeWd
@TracKnGravelDeWd Жыл бұрын
Oh man this is really good. When I started racing again I was being coached and would often use one of my endurance days as an extra "rest day". The coach was like no u need to do that and if your tired drop an intensity day. My primary is track racing so I was like that makes no sense. He didn't have a great explanation and It's too bad this video didn't exist when we had these conversations as I would have progressed much faster if it was made clear to me.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
thanks for your honest and candid reply! endurance is so often skipped, by many others so don't feel too badly about it. it's counterintuitive, but hey, no better time than the present to make some changes!!
@tripswithgriff
@tripswithgriff 3 жыл бұрын
Another great video - thanks. Do you have any info on when/if those benefits of endurance rides might stop or slow as we age? I know all the Friel stuff about losing vo2 as you age and the need to regularly 'use it or lose it', but can we still get these benefits to the same extent as we ride into our 50's and 60's? Do I need MORE endurance work to reap the same adaptions as a youngster or is age just a number when it comes to mitochondrial biogenesis?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Man that’s a great question that I don’t know the answer to. I’d trust a google search over what I’d say. Great question Damon!
@tripswithgriff
@tripswithgriff 3 жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE found a couple of studies incl this one www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/238463/#conclusion that is worth a look. Also stumbled on one that talks about the reduction in training benefits when antioxidants (vit C & E particularly) are taken during training.
@billszymanski4844
@billszymanski4844 10 ай бұрын
Nicely done. Should I monitor z2 with hr or power?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 10 ай бұрын
a mixture of both, and some RPE! You don't want to be gritting your teeth to hit z2 on the days you are tired. That said, if it's hot and HR is higher, I would STILL follow power in that case if the RPE matches up evenly. But when in doubt, dial it down a touch and save the energy for the HARD days. You can also search "endurance" on our channel and we have more in depth video. Good luck with the training Bill!
@angelsaulovelazquez3232
@angelsaulovelazquez3232 3 жыл бұрын
can the same benefits of a long ride happen for example if you do a group ride and it has 30-45 min of hard hard efforts and then you extend the regular 2:30 ride into a 4:30-5 hour ride by riding the rest in zone 2? or does the entire ride need to be zone 2 thanks
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
The more specific you can get with a workout session the better. If you can add time BEFORE the group session, even better. If not, after won’t hurt!
@xtra9996
@xtra9996 2 жыл бұрын
Convinced.
@JFomo
@JFomo Жыл бұрын
I suck at endurance rides because I always want to ride fast. I need to be told it's ok to ride slow and to have people over take me.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
it's ok, RIDE SLOWER!
@LS1conehead
@LS1conehead Жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE PLEASE define "slow" in speed/cadence/gearing terms, not zone/watts terms.
@delkim3691
@delkim3691 3 жыл бұрын
So you are prefering Z2 endurance rides over Z1? Should I still be doing Z1 rides then?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Very different ride. Z1 is for total recovery for 30-60min, like a day off. Endurance is a bit more, like 2-5 hours
@delkim3691
@delkim3691 3 жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE Thanks! And if you do "easy" 3h ride in Zone 1 for example at 55% of your FTP does it count as Endurance ride or is it just something like easy Base miles ride?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
@@delkim3691 no sir, don’t do 3h at 55%. Recovery should be 60 min max. 3h is 65-75%
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
@@delkim3691 also endurance and base miles means the same thing
@jusuflazami9580
@jusuflazami9580 3 жыл бұрын
SUPERIOR EXPLANATION, there are more stuff to this by the way, enhanced Efficiency, Increased Heart Volume , Stronger Hear Muscle Tonus, Preservation of Mitochondras as opposed to Destroying mitochondrias after Intervals due to acute acidosis, Improoved net body Alcalisation etc 😁
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome!!! Thanks for adding this info Jusuf!!
@annukun7318
@annukun7318 2 жыл бұрын
so in a nutshell of i train aerobic zone (endurance) 90 percent the time....eventually i should be riding faster and get fitter according to what you say right? also my max heart rate is 185 so ill ride more than 146 HR during enduarnce right please explain thanks! example my aeribic is 17.5 mph one ay i should be riding at 20 mph all day right!!! if i kep training at enduarnce..also last byt not least sometimes i ride on the trainer for almost 2 hours i heard 2 hours on trainer is like 3 hours on the road right?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 2 жыл бұрын
well that is just ONE piece of the puzzle. You also need FTP and VO2Max work. Check out our blog for more details. no 2h on the trainer is 2h ;-)
@annukun7318
@annukun7318 2 жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE for vo2 max and ftp i would do hard sprints or hill repeats at full gas....no i meant on trainer no stopping for lights no coasting no decents of tailwinds that all of these variables ouside make you peddal less and do less work thats what i meant
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 2 жыл бұрын
i wouldn't do hard sprints, but rather 3-8m vo2 intervals, maybe some tabatas, but true sprints are different. yes agree, no coasting is awesome, but can be done on the road as well unless you are around huge mountains. good luck!
@rueljutba3796
@rueljutba3796 Жыл бұрын
​@@EVOQBIKE what does vo2 interval means? sorry I'm new to cycling😄
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
@@rueljutba3796 no problem; check out our articles here: www.evoq.bike/blog/category/VO2Max
@michaelwtapp
@michaelwtapp Жыл бұрын
At around the 8:25 mark you talk about the fatigue of a 5 hour ride vs. a six hour ride. Are you talking about 5 hours as the moving time or 5 hours as the total duration of the ride. On Sunday I did a ride that was 5.5 hours of moving time and the total duration was 8 hours. Yesterday I was pretty fatigued. In hingsight I was thinking if I consumed more calories on the ride day I would have been less fatigued on the recovery day. It sounds like what you are implying that if you do a ride for around 6 hours you are going to be fatigued the following day no matter what.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
more total ride time. man, 2.5h of no riding on that ride!? what are you doing? that sounds brutal. Definitely have some fatigue from a 6h day, but doesn't mean you can't go do another 6h day (so many variables to this of course in terms of what rider we are talking about). but same rider, same RIDE--> i find 5h to be much more palatable than 6h. But maybe that's because I don't do a lot of 8h rides or longer! Perspective matters a lot too!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
sidenote: your NYC video from 8y ago is awesome!
@michaelwtapp
@michaelwtapp Жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE Thanks for the thoughtful reply! The total duration of the ride also impacts your fatigue; that makes sense to me. And to answer your question of what the hell I was doing for the 2.5 hours of downtime. I crossed paths with a bunch of other cyclists I knew on my ride and I ended up talking to them for a while when they were taking a break. Stopped to eat lunch for 45 minutes(for some meals I need some time to digest). And also I stop to snack(honey, gummies) every 30 minutes. It's still a little bit cold in the try state area so I stop to snack. I find that it's hard to eat while riding when I am wearing full gloves.
@michaelwtapp
@michaelwtapp Жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE Thanks for the compliment! Thanks for watching too
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
ah that makes sense. as long as you enjoyed it!
@JJ85J
@JJ85J 2 жыл бұрын
Is good Mon Z2 2h Thu Z4 reps Wed Z2 Tru Z5 rep Fri Z2 Weekend freeride/groups?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 2 жыл бұрын
probably one too many hard sessions, esp for base season (if you're in base), but hard to exactly say without knowing more specifics about you. z4 + z5 + group is a lot
@relaxwithbogo5579
@relaxwithbogo5579 Жыл бұрын
3 to 4 rides shuld be at least 1h30min on LT1
@richardmiddleton7770
@richardmiddleton7770 Жыл бұрын
60% of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose so you can still have glycogen in the muscles without consuming carbs although the process is slower so you will be limited in how often you train at threshold or above.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
i thought it was that it could turn to glucose but not all does. hmm interesting. consuming carbs is better though. recover faster
@cyclingfreak56
@cyclingfreak56 9 ай бұрын
Have to BS on your pseudoscience! www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636601/
@epicuserxd
@epicuserxd 3 жыл бұрын
Do you do Z2endurance training with HR limit?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
I do not, I follow power simply because hR monitors can be off day to day. Now If Youre doing z2 and bpm is super high, need to work on that for sure
@philadams9254
@philadams9254 Жыл бұрын
You missed a *huge* benefit of them - the increased calorie burn makes fat loss a lot easier. They are also the only way to increase power while losing weight because any other tactic compromises glycogen storage too much, so high intensity suffers.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
thanks for your thoughts. This video was more to focus on the wattage aspect of endurance training, not weight loss. good luck with the training!
@MsRacer55
@MsRacer55 3 жыл бұрын
👍👍
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
🚀🚀🚀
@paperjourni8964
@paperjourni8964 6 күн бұрын
why is there a gun in the background?
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 6 күн бұрын
I was living on a farm (not mine) and there was no other place to set up.
@paperjourni8964
@paperjourni8964 6 күн бұрын
thanks!
@LS1conehead
@LS1conehead Жыл бұрын
The irony is that I DO fully understand all of the (even cellular level) physiology, and the physiological adaptations of this discussion (and then some!). Where I am lost IS on all of the (relatively) new school, acronym 'metrics'. Everyone keeps stressing the existential REQUIREMENT to have a power meter in order to accomplish even this 'base' training because EVERYTHING is ONLY EVER spoken of in terms of watts for a given 'zone', and NEVER in gear ratios at cadence over how many miles. I will not be able to get one anytime soon, so I need to have 'base' training (especially for an almost 70 year old just riding now for 2 months after a 20 year layoff from serious/competitive racing. Everyone just assumes that you already have many continuous years of base already under your belt, SOME DO NOT!) explained to me in old school/ancient terms like we used to do back in the 'caveman days', i.e.; gear ratio at a given cadence/speed, and NOT 'zone 2' with it's wattage inferences. I understand it will never ever be as precise, or exact as the whole wattage for a given weight, etc. since yes, everybody is producing different power levels even at the same gearing and cadence, but PLEASE give me a rough starting point in these parameters as to WHAT TF is actually considered a 'base' nowadays!!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
there is no requirement for power! and i think you might self impose "cave man days" term; I've surely never used that. I've actually said the opposite; "people were getting FAST without power". athletes overthink power. But, i'd encourage you to continue learning, as the old and new explanations both add value. base is conversational chatting pace. good luck!
@LS1conehead
@LS1conehead Жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE So, riding a 34x17 gear @ roughly 100 RPM, mostly on the flats for 2-3 hours a day for ~2K miles could suffice for a 'base'?? (To put it in about the most un-scientific, non-power meter terms as possible.) When out on rides I see so many just going slower than I am traveling, while 'windmilling'/grinding away on the big ring at a MUCH lower cadence. They almost had me thinking that I am doing something 'wrong' according to the new thinking about training. I just want to avoid injuries (at my age, and starting from basically a NOTHING status fitness state due to that LONG layoff) from going directly into HIIT/intervals on big ring huge gears due to not having a base. Or does that not really matter anymore, according to new school rules/mindsets??? BTW; That 'cave man days' comment was most definitely NOT a snarky implied diss of YOU personally, but of the whole general attitude of those who got into this sport relatively recently, and therefore ONLY know from all of the current complicated acronyms and lexicon of the technical side of this sport, and almost NOTHING of it's past history. There seems to be this 'taken for granted' attitude that one knows all of this, as well as owns the best power meter(s) on the market, and rides a modern carbon bike (or 3!) with; disc brakes, fully integrated hidden cables, and clearance for mile wide rims and 40C tires. NOT 'everyone' is there. 😉
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
you're good man. don't watch everyone else, you have no idea their whole program or why they are doing low cadence
@bdk2116
@bdk2116 3 жыл бұрын
Bro do you even listen to kolie moore
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 3 жыл бұрын
I do not, for personal reasons from a few years ago. Not sure if you ask this with snark, but hopefully not!
@bdk2116
@bdk2116 3 жыл бұрын
@@EVOQBIKE not really any snark implied, yall just disagree on the physiology
@henninghghjensen3771
@henninghghjensen3771 Жыл бұрын
I can follow you on the physiology - but the rifle behind your head made my mind wander away from the scinece
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
haha stay focused! recorded in the space that was available at the time; a farm in the middle of nowhere. Not my decor 😆😆
@cyclingfreak56
@cyclingfreak56 9 ай бұрын
But that doesn’t sell quick trainer road programs! Which zero top notch endurance cyclists use!
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE 9 ай бұрын
hahaha, you said it, not me!! 😆
@marcus_velo_9970
@marcus_velo_9970 Жыл бұрын
zone 2 & lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR) raise that and you push up your other zones, that's the key to z2 training and the benefit to ftp. Also the gun is problematic in light of mass shootings in your country. Please put a bike up, gun was distracting. cheers.
@EVOQBIKE
@EVOQBIKE Жыл бұрын
hey Marcus, this is a country farm that I was staying at; I don't do the decorating. Cheers.
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