Why Embraer’s New Turboprop Has Its Engines At The Back

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Simple Flying

Simple Flying

2 жыл бұрын

In August, Embraer released its latest iteration of its highly anticipated new turboprop product. Set to be officially launched at some point next year (complete with a name), there is a targeted entry into service date of 2027.
Article link: simpleflying.com/embraer-turb...
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Embraer E175 KLM • KLM Cityhopper first E...
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Пікірлер: 934
@corisco7590
@corisco7590 2 жыл бұрын
"This was clearly a deliberate decision" Thanks for clearing that up. Otherwise, one might have thought that the engines decided on their own to reposition themselves.
@billsmith3493
@billsmith3493 2 жыл бұрын
Everyone wants to be a P180.
@stevenkovler5133
@stevenkovler5133 Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂
@ddthompson42
@ddthompson42 Ай бұрын
They let AI design it.
@mrluckyuncle
@mrluckyuncle 6 күн бұрын
@@ddthompson42Anyway - I think AI wrote the script for the video.
@lohphat
@lohphat 2 жыл бұрын
Also, in an engine-out situation, the yaw component of the remaining powered engine is less as the turning moment arm is shorter since it's closer to the center-line.
@reubenmorris487
@reubenmorris487 2 жыл бұрын
And if the use counter-rotating props, there will be no critical engine.
@the11382
@the11382 2 жыл бұрын
This also matters in a loss of hydraulics situation, where pilots had to use the engines to land and steer.
@DavidOfWhitehills
@DavidOfWhitehills 2 жыл бұрын
@@reubenmorris487 counterrotating props are very noisy.
@Peasmouldia
@Peasmouldia 2 жыл бұрын
I really need to read the comments before posting... Apologies for cross posting you.
@jennyjohn704
@jennyjohn704 2 жыл бұрын
@@reubenmorris487 If by 'counter-rotating props' you mean a pair of props on each engine counter-rotating, then no. Such systems are very noisy and ridiculously inefficient. There are good reasons why they don't use them on helicopters...
@VisibilityFoggy
@VisibilityFoggy 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer just keeps coming out with awesome aircraft after awesome aircraft. I really, really wish they'd jump in and disrupt the market with a true 737/A320 competitor.
@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar
@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar 2 жыл бұрын
It would certainly be cool if Embraer were able to jump into Boeing’s and Airbus’ sandbox, but the 737 and A320 are so entrenched that designing an aircraft compelling enough for potential buyers to take on the expense of incorporating an entirely new type seems like an awfully tall order (I will neither confirm nor deny whether that pun was intended 😆). Maybe hydrogen power would be key to making the case, though I don’t know what the expectations are for the technology, or what the development timeline looks like. (Hmm...maybe a credible 757 replacement would pique some interest?)
@jadsoncabral7021
@jadsoncabral7021 2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately Embraer doesn't have the same "governamental support" Boeing and Airbus do.
@Dave_Sisson
@Dave_Sisson 2 жыл бұрын
Bombardier tried that with their C series (now rebranded as the A220) and they were immediately locked out of the United States market. This would have been observed by all makers of smaller planes and now none of them would be brave enough to invest squillions of dollars to develop a similar plane if it would be (effectively) banned from such a key market.
@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar
@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar 2 жыл бұрын
@@Dave_Sisson Yeah, that did occur to me. It would be incredibly tough to do anyway, and virtually impossible for the reason you mentioned.
@klausschumacher7126
@klausschumacher7126 2 жыл бұрын
@@Dave_Sisson the US put tariffs on the C series plane built in Canada..... The Airbus A220 is now build in the US at least for the US market. It's a kind of understandable reaction.
@MaggieKeizai
@MaggieKeizai 2 жыл бұрын
Anything that makes turboprops less terrible to fly on is a good idea in my book. Good job, Embraer.
@Justdizzy
@Justdizzy 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbutton3500 Never had a problem with turboprops either... thought I was weird.
@kimanih6903
@kimanih6903 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbutton3500 That's because you are only thinking or have flown in a Dash 8 or some modern Saab.
@ryanjared4263
@ryanjared4263 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbutton3500 i dont even find the noise different that much from a ATR 72/DASH to a 320.
@onetrickhorse
@onetrickhorse 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbutton3500 I find it depends heavily on where you're sat... I've sat forward, aft, and right by the props, and I can tell you that forward is best, aft is next best, but beside the prop I find rather unpleasant on take off and climb in past experience.
@BritishBeachcomber
@BritishBeachcomber 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidbutton3500 nothing worse that a screaming brat on a long flight.
@1chish
@1chish 2 жыл бұрын
I am surprised that no one mentioned the big benefit of having an uncluttered wing which not only makes both design and manufacturing easier but offers performance benefits.
@louiscypher4186
@louiscypher4186 2 жыл бұрын
They also come with great maintenance benefits. Turn around times on wing related repairs are generally faster, wing pylon corrosion from exhaust gases are pretty much eliminated. Plus they are less susceptible to FOD due to higher positioning. Climbing up to work on the engines is rather annoying, but on a low clearance plane i'd much rather the engines be aft mounted.
@upresins
@upresins 2 жыл бұрын
Of course an uncluttered wing does offer a cleaner air flow, but the incidences of wing flutter is higher. A wing with an engine load is tougher and flaps/flutters less.
@1chish
@1chish 2 жыл бұрын
@@upresins Not sure that stands up. Many airliners have had rear mounted engines and had no wing issues: Caravelle, BAC-111, VC-10, Trident, 727 to name just a few.
@upresins
@upresins 2 жыл бұрын
@@1chish I had heard this many years ago in a program on the Boeing 777 (I think) on Discovery. The Boeing engineers had maintained that wings with engines loaded on them will not flap as much and will thus contribute to a smoother flight.
@Marcellhngb
@Marcellhngb 2 жыл бұрын
@@upresins yes but thats because of the huge wing span of the boeng 777, any torque aplied on those wings will affect its performance and make it wobble hundreds of times more than if it was on a smaller airplane such as the one in this video
@RobtheAviator
@RobtheAviator 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer makes great products. I flew the E175 for a now defunct regional in the US. I fly the A320 now and I still think the E175 was better.
@alexlo7708
@alexlo7708 2 жыл бұрын
Smaller plane has quicker response than a big one.
@brunobeloff9611
@brunobeloff9611 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating to hear the view of a pilot. From my experience as a passenger, I would rather fly an E175 than a A319 or a B737 any day!
@sergiolaurencio7534
@sergiolaurencio7534 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, 2-2 is the best configuration to fly in economy and the new W2 family makes it better
@reinerressel975
@reinerressel975 Ай бұрын
B777 ,E170-195 have the same flyby wire system , where the pilot flys the Aircraft ! On Airbuses the computer is flying the Airbus , the pilot inputs the direction ONLY !!!!
@virtuousvoice
@virtuousvoice 2 жыл бұрын
That is interesting. T-tails with engines in the back are coming back into style!
@SanctuaryReintegrate
@SanctuaryReintegrate 2 жыл бұрын
Back into style? I can't turn my head without seeing a CRJ, ERJ, MD-80, 717, or literally any business jet. They're like blue jeans. They just never go out of style.
@virtuousvoice
@virtuousvoice 2 жыл бұрын
@@SanctuaryReintegrate MD-80s are very rare where I am.
@SanctuaryReintegrate
@SanctuaryReintegrate 2 жыл бұрын
@@virtuousvoice I see them more because I work at a small airport, and it's frequented more often by mid-sized planes. A lot of them are getting really old though, so they have been slowly getting less common.
@captainotto
@captainotto 2 жыл бұрын
I've been flying Diamonds for many years and I just love them. But they have the engines up front or on the wings. T-tails introduce the risk of a deep stall and in the case of turbofan or turboprop engines in the back, inlet fouling as well. If I remember correctly there were a few incidents in the MD-80s regarding deep stalls way back. Hopefully that risk doesn't get reintroduced.
@dylanwagemans7718
@dylanwagemans7718 2 жыл бұрын
@@irvhh143 Why do you think they would get grounded…?
@peterprokop
@peterprokop 2 жыл бұрын
I would assume that it also helps to have more laminar flow on the wings, reducing drag and fuel consumption.
@jadsoncabral7021
@jadsoncabral7021 2 жыл бұрын
Certainly
@deus_ex_machina_
@deus_ex_machina_ 2 жыл бұрын
But then the prop has to deal with all that 'dirty air', both for the intake and the prop's thrust, which might reduce efficiency somewhat, although the benefit must outweigh the costs of they choose to mount it there.
@adamaviation6236
@adamaviation6236 2 жыл бұрын
@The Flying Farmer no, vortices come from every part of the wing. The wingtips have stronger ones though, but yeah the downwash will for the most part keep it in clean air (except during descent)
@adamaviation6236
@adamaviation6236 2 жыл бұрын
@The Flying Farmer the molecules from below the wing try to go to the top where the pressure is lower, but keep spiralling because the plane is moving forward. Most of it travels down to the wingtip and creates vortices, but the trailing edge of the wing from the root to tip has air flowing upwards and downwards, causing turbulence. This is the reason that small planes have to land closer to the end of the runway than big planes because the entire wing is creating wake turbulence
@SirFloofy001
@SirFloofy001 2 жыл бұрын
@@adamaviation6236 Im sorry, did you just say small planes have to land closer to the end of the runway? What are you talking about?
@rlyle5804
@rlyle5804 2 жыл бұрын
"This was clearly a deliberate decision by the design team..." Really? It didnt design itself?
@slagellajs
@slagellajs 2 жыл бұрын
Haha maybe they accidentally designed it that way😂
@jimbokay5696
@jimbokay5696 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but why did the "Vector" disappear?
@marcellofms
@marcellofms 2 жыл бұрын
@@jimbokay5696 Are you referring to the Embraer CBA 123?
@marcellofms
@marcellofms 2 жыл бұрын
@@jimbokay5696 There were several factors. The delay in launching the project was due to the difficulty and slowness of the Argentines in the part of the project they were responsible for. With the financial difficulties that Embraer was facing, the Brazilian government decided to privatize it. During this transition, the ERJ family was also in development. With the scarcity of financial resources, they could not afford the development of both models and decided to prioritize the ERJ project, which would be more profitable. In addition, another aggravating factor was the oil crisis of 1990, making the Vector's operation uncompetitive. These factors, combined with the regional aviation market's demand for higher-capacity aircraft with jet engines, made it impossible to continue the program.
@iatsd
@iatsd 2 жыл бұрын
Almost as good as "The previous version with the engines UNDER the wings". Apparently the vid makers are blind.
@leezinke4351
@leezinke4351 2 жыл бұрын
What a beautiful plane!
@REIBODERA
@REIBODERA 2 жыл бұрын
Very good Embraer idea
@mcukierman
@mcukierman 2 жыл бұрын
It also helps that Embraer developers the CBA 123 in the 80s, with turboprop in the back. This plane had 2 test models built,.so the knowledge is there.
@tiemen9095
@tiemen9095 2 жыл бұрын
You'd think so, but I believe the reality will be that most people who worked on it in the 80s have left the company and most of the documentation has outdated severely, or is difficult to access.
@georgew2014
@georgew2014 2 жыл бұрын
@@tiemen9095 That's true. But the aerodynamics data might be useful as a starting point.
@ernestobrillantesiii5775
@ernestobrillantesiii5775 2 жыл бұрын
Looks so cool tho
@larrysmith1568
@larrysmith1568 2 жыл бұрын
This configuration was tried many years ago. I think they experimented on MD 80s. Very efficient, quiet and reliable. Public hated it because they wanted jets. It was a jet but with props.
@stephenporter5886
@stephenporter5886 2 жыл бұрын
I am not sure that the configuration was quite the same on the MD 80 , as it was based around the UDF which did not come to fruition, mainly because of excessive cabin noise (compared to turbofans) and low fuel prices at the time.
@imano8265
@imano8265 2 жыл бұрын
Yes it was in the early 90s i think. There was a developpment of a new engine called "propfan" in order to improve fuel efficiency.Thogh it was sucessfully tested it came never really in production. Maybe in fear that the public would hate it, as you say. Cause they prefere jet-engines. But: the only way to improve fuel efficiency ist to make the bypass bigger, so we have today" jet"-engines looking almost like theese "propfans "with the exeption of a manteled rotor.
@elhanson5426
@elhanson5426 2 жыл бұрын
I believe at the same time of the MD80/DC9 tests there tests experiments done using the Boeing 727 as the test airframe but still had the problem of excessive cabin noise due to the prop design, it may require additional prop re-engineering to overcome that problem.
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt 2 жыл бұрын
@@imano8265 mantled makes it silent and probably even more efficient ( like winglets ). Problem is that the angle of attack changes on the mantle. Would be cool to have variable geometry without weight. I don't know why man rated planes use EDF, though. Prop cannot be thaat loud at 200 km/h
@manfredstrappen7491
@manfredstrappen7491 2 жыл бұрын
It had nothing to do with the “public hating it”. It’s because fuel prices dropped and jet engines became more efficient. The public never experienced the one aircraft that was tested.
@adb012
@adb012 2 жыл бұрын
This has so much of the CBA 123 Vector on in. But bigger. The CBA 123 Vector was a Collaboration between Brazil and Argentina to develop and advance regional 19-seats turboprops in the 90's. It featured rear fuselage-mounted turboprop engines with 6-blades counter-rotating props in pusher config which placed them so far back that the plane was quieter than the 737 Classics of the time, advanced aerodynamics with supercritical airfoils, super advanced avionics and systems (for the time) including EFIS, AHRS, EICAS and FADEC, 300+ knots of cruise airspeed and a service ceiling of 35000 ft. Oh, and it had an amazingly sexy ramp appeal that made you shout "I want to fly in that". 3 prototypes were built, 1 was unfinished at 80%, 2 of them flew, one of them at the 1990 Farnborough Air Show. The project was a failure and a total loss for Argentina, For Brazil, however, it gave Embraer the maturity and experience in aircraft development, especially regarding advanced systems, that helped them succeed with the first generation of ERJ jets. And evidently they are still using the ideas and lessons learned today (and why wouldn't they).
@EnergeticWaves
@EnergeticWaves 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer is a great company. Spent a week there once!
@ariefbudi427
@ariefbudi427 2 жыл бұрын
from the looks i prefer to ride on those thing than the old ATR. Espesialy if its efficiency means cheaper ticket than regular jet
@AnotherManCalledJames
@AnotherManCalledJames 2 жыл бұрын
Eww 🤢 this isnt the best but is ok , I really love the ATR the sounds are so relaxing 😌 , but again it's your opinion
@0rgasmdonor
@0rgasmdonor 2 жыл бұрын
no efficiency means the airline makes more money not you paying less
@moteroargentino7944
@moteroargentino7944 2 жыл бұрын
@Salty Llama Until a low-cost airline offers cheaper tickets because now they can afford it. Airlines are highly competitive with small profit margins nowadays.
@alexmathis8505
@alexmathis8505 2 жыл бұрын
@@moteroargentino7944 Uh, except the "low-cost" airlines fly the exact same planes the big expensive airlines fly LOL.
@titan4110
@titan4110 2 жыл бұрын
@@alexmathis8505 Well most don't fly wide bodies or internationally. But in terms of narrow bodies and regional aircraft they fly the same planes.
@Papershields001
@Papershields001 2 жыл бұрын
I love turboprops. I fly on them whenever I get the chance, which is unfortunately becoming rarer and rarer.
@edgewood99
@edgewood99 2 жыл бұрын
Rarer? No, they are not. Where did you get this CLEARLY flawed statistic? Turboprops are the MOST efficient system for aviation powerplants.
@FlyingFerris
@FlyingFerris 2 жыл бұрын
@@edgewood99 probably by looking around the US and seeing almost every regional airline dumping their turboprop fleet, thus making it harder to get a ride on a turboprop? Rory never said it was not an efficient platform, just that they’re harder to come by.
@edgewood99
@edgewood99 2 жыл бұрын
@@FlyingFerris The "fleets" are in a mess right now...I am talking about in general. More and more turbo-props are being made all the time.
@FlyingFerris
@FlyingFerris 2 жыл бұрын
@@edgewood99 by whom and where are they being purchased? In the US the 3 major airlines do not have turboprop service anymore, and are basically down to code share flights with Silver and PennAero, probably the last prolific flier of turboprop aircraft in the US, Horizon, has a static at best turboprop fleet. Stop being delusional about the current state of turboprop airline flying in the west these days. It’s dead, probably for the worse to the consumer, but the consumer is what demanded this change so higher fares it is. Will the props make a return, maybe, but Embraer is playing it smart and not sinking a ton of R and D dollars into this new product as western airlines probably will not be major consumers of this new product.
@edgewood99
@edgewood99 2 жыл бұрын
@@FlyingFerris I am not talking about AIRLINES. There are things in the world other than AIRLINES.
@ItsAMeAndrew
@ItsAMeAndrew 2 жыл бұрын
Nice, we may actually see something like the 7J7 enter production
@k8zhd
@k8zhd 2 жыл бұрын
I recall a proposal almost exactly like this back during the original oil crisis in the 1970s -- it was a pair of pusher turboprops essentially replacing the aft-mounted jet engines on a DC-9. The goal then was more fuel efficiency over the then-current jet engines, with the pusher configuration (and scimitar-shaped propellor blades) to get the noise as far aft of the cabin as possible.
@bubuluke
@bubuluke 2 жыл бұрын
I flew in an ATR once and loved the experience. The engine growled and the cabin was modest. Only one flight attendant who was having a ball.
@wernerarroyo3525
@wernerarroyo3525 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing the turnaround from Embraer after the breakout with Boeing!
@salvaahthesageofficial2457
@salvaahthesageofficial2457 2 жыл бұрын
I like how innovative Embraer is being with this new aircraft I'll definitely be excited to hear more about it
@j.n3267
@j.n3267 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing! Congratulations EMBRAER!!!
@joshuathomas8529
@joshuathomas8529 2 жыл бұрын
I love flying on conventional turbo props they offer a more interesting flying experience. I realy like the high wing configurations because they give you a more unobstructed view of the ground and I also love the hum of the engines.
@jipverwer3173
@jipverwer3173 2 жыл бұрын
it looks awesome, hope Wideroe/widerøe in Norway starts using them
@ViewsfromtheHUD
@ViewsfromtheHUD 2 жыл бұрын
Couple things I’d be curious about is the issue of de-icing. Will it have boots or a hot wing? I’d be concerned that boots would cause ice to break off and the blades hitting the chunks and getting damaged. A hot wing though would solve that but either requires more bleed air than is generated by a turboprop OR addition electrical generation.
@ChrisCullenRacing
@ChrisCullenRacing 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer 175s have bleed air for the leading edge anti-ice, so i'm sure they will carry that forward, especially if it could damage props.
@ViewsfromtheHUD
@ViewsfromtheHUD 2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisCullenRacing I know, I have about 2500 hours flying the 190 😉 I also have several thousand in a couple turboprops and they all had boots, not heated wings. Most turboprop engines have a much smaller compressor section meaning less bleed air is available to operate bleed air powered accessories. Maybe the engine they select will have the ability to offer more bleed air, not sure🤷‍♂️, however, the distance from the engine to the leading edges tells me it’s unlikely. My bet would be boots or an electrically heated wing. That though creates issues with power generation. If you need extra generators to run a heated wing that is a load in the engine which than reduces fuel efficiency. Again, it’ll be interesting to see how they overcome this. 🤔
@KENARDO
@KENARDO 2 жыл бұрын
@@ViewsfromtheHUD I'd bet on more future aircraft adopting all-electric/no-bleed-air systems based on the relative success of the 787 in this area. Bleed air systems are heavy and they do ultimately still draw their energy from the engines, which could otherwise be used for thrust, so they reduce fuel efficiency by potentially a greater degree than all-electric systems. Boeing certainly thought so when designing the 787, which is an extremely fuel efficient aircraft without a bleed air system.
@abdullaal-obaidi833
@abdullaal-obaidi833 2 жыл бұрын
true, and also this wing looks much thinner, which means it collects even more ice than a thicker wing, we'll have to see what they will do in regards to icing.
@kauske
@kauske 2 жыл бұрын
Given the abundance of hydrophobic coatings, I'm surprised that aircraft manufacturers don't use them to prevent ice buildup on aircraft. The right makeup of hydrophobic texture can entirely eliminate ice formation. It would also be a lot lighter than any active system as well.
@inganess100
@inganess100 2 жыл бұрын
Single engine failure should be a little less exciting due to the engines being closer to the center of thrust
@alexmathis8505
@alexmathis8505 2 жыл бұрын
probably allows for a smaller rudder as well, which could achieve significant drag reduction - probably one of their big reasons for doing so.
@KarmaFlight
@KarmaFlight 2 жыл бұрын
Less chance of someone walking into a prop as well.
@hilman94
@hilman94 2 жыл бұрын
And safer for ditching or belly landing..
@Justwantahover
@Justwantahover 2 жыл бұрын
And maybe more efficient cos it's not blowing air into the wing.
@ViewsfromtheHUD
@ViewsfromtheHUD 2 жыл бұрын
@@Justwantahover yes and no. Turboprops benefit with additional lift due to the air flowing over the wing.
@glorfindel17
@glorfindel17 2 жыл бұрын
Do "the public" actually pick flights based on aircraft type for "very short haul"? I think not. E2 interior on a Turbo is encouraging - the end of the Devils Chariot Hydrogen adoption makes sense in terms of the engine location Hope this works well for our friends in Brazil - great company.
@Kalvinjj
@Kalvinjj 2 жыл бұрын
I would say people don't pick the flights based on the plane, but they would associate the airline operating that same route with a good or bad experience. If you ride a crappy plane, you'll think of another airline for the next time (if you can afford).
@kauske
@kauske 2 жыл бұрын
Well, given people are refusing to fly on the Max after its issues, it might become a thing where people express plane preference going forward.
@luizrodrigues150
@luizrodrigues150 2 жыл бұрын
@@Kalvinjj sustainability concerns are here to stay. Check for London City airport where (seems to me that) um to 90% of flights are Embraer planes
@1_lens_view
@1_lens_view 2 жыл бұрын
It’s not so unusual for frequent travelers to consider the aircraft type in their flight planning. I certainly do, and many of my colleagues do the same - even for 1-2 hour short hops. I never liked turbos because of their noise, rough flight characteristics in bad weather due to their low altitude compared to jets, and their slow speed. It was a godsend when the majors here in the US retired them. If Emb can largely address these historical concerns, I could become a fan of them.
@Lohoris
@Lohoris 2 жыл бұрын
Actually yes, many do. In the past I've picked Ryanair (ugh) over Aer Lingus simply because on the same route the former used a jet while the latter used a turbo. Luckily this is no longer the case now :D
@dheyes803
@dheyes803 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer jets have always been impressive. This new model holds a promising future, more propulsion at the rear of the jet and in the event of a catastrophic actual loss of an engine will probably lessen the chance of further damage to the fuselage and possible spoiler and rudder impediment.
@ScoutPL
@ScoutPL 2 жыл бұрын
I LOVE that grinning shark mouth on the E2!
@DawnUSNvet
@DawnUSNvet 2 жыл бұрын
GE experimented with an Un-Ducted Fan engine decades ago. This looks like a variation of the theme. The MD DC-9 and MD-80s offered rear engines. I hope it works for them.
@terencewalker8915
@terencewalker8915 2 жыл бұрын
Same with Boeing with its 7J7. Both failed to be viable due to high noise,vibration and minimal performance metrics I believe.
@Adam-fj9px
@Adam-fj9px 2 жыл бұрын
I honestly prefer learning about small planes and prop planes compared to big jetliners
@ruileao9513
@ruileao9513 2 жыл бұрын
What a beautiful bird. Cant wait to see it fly
@BritishBeachcomber
@BritishBeachcomber 2 жыл бұрын
I love flying in turboprops. That gentle, varying, thrumming sound when the engines aren't quite synchronised...
@johnfahmy1297
@johnfahmy1297 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! And exellent jump into the futur! Keep us updated!
@commerce-usa
@commerce-usa 2 жыл бұрын
It makes a lot of sense for all the reasons mentioned. The only thing one could envision (and hopefully is already part of the design) is when a catastrophic prop failure might occur, that adequate reinforcement on the fuselage near areas where debris might strike the fuselage is done to prevent damage to any control surface related cabling and/or anything else that might cause a failure of tail section components. That said, it looks like a fantastic aircraft with much to offer all involved parties. 👍
@bastarddoggy
@bastarddoggy 2 жыл бұрын
A pusher prop configuration would put them even farther away from the cabin to reduce that risk. It would reduce cabin noise, too. I'm wondering if that was considered.
@ethansaviation2672
@ethansaviation2672 2 жыл бұрын
Cool design 😎. Great vid👍
@nathanmarshall4355
@nathanmarshall4355 2 жыл бұрын
I was skeptical until I heard the reasons why they made that design. Now I can't wait to fly in one!
@VibhorWase
@VibhorWase 2 жыл бұрын
After retro cruisers and motorbikes...it's now time for retro modern planes! Bravo
@ViperGTS737
@ViperGTS737 2 жыл бұрын
It looks beautiful
@christianfelipe2824
@christianfelipe2824 2 жыл бұрын
This might be a good replacement for older turboprops. Its modern design may change the future of turboprops.
@alexmathis8505
@alexmathis8505 2 жыл бұрын
They aren't trying to replace older turboprops, they're trying to re-start an entire market. Most of the US regional operators got rid of their turboprops ages ago, the thought is that US passengers don't want to go near anything that "old" and "unsafe" when they see a propeller. Their goal was to achieve the speed of a jet, with the efficiency of a turboprop (kinda like a Q400) with an image that passengers were comfortable with. The cleaner wing also reduces drag a LOT - the t-tail is a big heavier, but it's clearly worth it.
@nntflow7058
@nntflow7058 2 жыл бұрын
I'll be waiting for ATR's possible new plane. We still got 6 years before this Embraer turboprop enter the market. I would say that ATR would probably update the engines, wings and maybe work on the 100 seat stretch.
@alexmathis8505
@alexmathis8505 2 жыл бұрын
@@nntflow7058 I honestly don't think they care - certainly Airbus doesn't. The market is dead, and this plane would revive it slightly - I still don't think it's big enough for two players though. They may just wait and see if it works out at all. It's not a matter of making a better plane, it's a matter of carriers actually buying turboprops in large numbers again (and the public wanting to fly in them).
@fruitbouquet5479
@fruitbouquet5479 2 жыл бұрын
So it’s a Rear-Wheel-Drive
@warmstrong5612
@warmstrong5612 2 жыл бұрын
Rear engined, rear wheel, & air cooled. It's a Volkswagen!
@totalrecone
@totalrecone 2 жыл бұрын
It's a gift from the Drifting Gods :)
@fruitbouquet5479
@fruitbouquet5479 2 жыл бұрын
@@warmstrong5612 😂 Good one!
@fruitbouquet5479
@fruitbouquet5479 2 жыл бұрын
@@totalrecone 😂😂😂
@greenidguy9292
@greenidguy9292 2 жыл бұрын
And terrible in the snow…😂😂
@kaiquecf
@kaiquecf 2 жыл бұрын
Can't wait to see them revolutionizing the regional connections in Brazil (big if's regarding to fuel prices and better regulation). It would be ideal for connecting directly some mediam sized cities that today are linked thru distant main airports. It also can integrate many of the small cities to existing mediam and big ones with greater convenience.
@hopfer66
@hopfer66 2 жыл бұрын
It will be interesting if the final version end up with and engine system like Embraer CBA-123 Vector project... it would be a quantum leap in the market.
@chrismckellar9350
@chrismckellar9350 2 жыл бұрын
I like the design and the engine/props at the rear. Definitely will reduce engine noise and vibration.
@go56dofro
@go56dofro 9 күн бұрын
Comfort +Efficiency +Safety. The real question is why no one did it before.
@4vndd
@4vndd 2 жыл бұрын
Simply superb... thanks for sharing.. !!
@Jaxxv01
@Jaxxv01 2 жыл бұрын
Very nice looking plane. Has great potential!
@JamesCAsphalt8
@JamesCAsphalt8 2 жыл бұрын
It will no longer be possible to look out the window to see the engines. It would be a good idea to have cameras on the engines for the pilots to view at any time.
@yengsabio5315
@yengsabio5315 2 жыл бұрын
Good point!
@Guantar90
@Guantar90 2 жыл бұрын
Why? I fly the 175 and have never had a reason to see the engine nacelle in flight.
@JamesCAsphalt8
@JamesCAsphalt8 2 жыл бұрын
@@Guantar90 Never say never. If there is a fire indication or bad vibration, I want to eyeball the engine.
@jadsoncabral7021
@jadsoncabral7021 2 жыл бұрын
@@JamesCAsphalt8 you've got all the informations you need on the panels. No need for images, it would be nothing but a distraction
@stevenbeach748
@stevenbeach748 2 жыл бұрын
Yes. Absolutely no need to see an engine.
@MegaSunspark
@MegaSunspark 2 жыл бұрын
All good points here by SF and viewers. Only downside of having any engines in the back is the risk of ice impact and ingestion from accumulation of ice peeling off the wings when flying in icing conditions.
@ominous-omnipresent-they
@ominous-omnipresent-they 2 жыл бұрын
The paint schemes on those E2 jets are an absolute desire to behold.
@michaelsheargold
@michaelsheargold 2 жыл бұрын
It looks awesome as an aircraft - love the future proof thinking of the design! Lead by engineers I’d say.
@JohnnyWednesday
@JohnnyWednesday 2 жыл бұрын
It looks beautiful! that's reason enough for me
@robinvanags912
@robinvanags912 2 жыл бұрын
It does look smart (I've only flown on turboprop aircraft - not one of the 'Jet-Set'!).
@dvieitez
@dvieitez 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful airplanes tends to be great handling airplanes.
@loveisall5520
@loveisall5520 2 жыл бұрын
I can remember when GE was looking, a couple of decades ago, at a new plane with fixed-prop turboprops at the back. Beautiful plane--but then I loved the VC-10 and IL-62, not to mention Goldfinger's Lockheed Jetstar.
@MrTortureandtorment
@MrTortureandtorment 2 жыл бұрын
I hope this will workout for everyone concerned. Good going EMBRAER!
@theharper1
@theharper1 2 жыл бұрын
You showed an image of an aircraft with engines above the wings then said "engines under the wings". That aside, it will be interesting to see how this works out. I wonder if it helps to reduce drag and improve fuel economy?
@mcplutt
@mcplutt 2 жыл бұрын
OK
@Tjeran
@Tjeran 2 жыл бұрын
I'm curious about the STOL capabilities of this plane. Will it to be able to replace the now ageing Dash8-100 and 200 series?
@alexmathis8505
@alexmathis8505 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think so, it looks like they'll achieve performance through aerodynamics and more modern blade designs, plus weight reductions. I suppose it could be used in such a role as the power-weight ratio will be similar, but that's definitely NOT their target audience with this thing. They want to re-capture the regional jet market with sleek, modern, fast, and efficient turboprops that people won't complain about flying in - STOL is probably the last thing they're concerned with.
@ViewsfromtheHUD
@ViewsfromtheHUD 2 жыл бұрын
@@alexmathis8505 agreed. The design seems optimized for speed, not STOL
@karlossargeant3872
@karlossargeant3872 2 жыл бұрын
Embraer New Turboprops looks Kool 100% I hope that Airline Commuters will take Interests in buying them including the Embraer E2 Family Jets too.
@gloriousradio
@gloriousradio 2 жыл бұрын
It's a good decision - it allows for future fitting of unducted fan/propfan engines if and when the technology matures.
@craigtate5930
@craigtate5930 2 жыл бұрын
What about the CG effects of rear mounted hydrogen fuel tanks?
@tominator23
@tominator23 2 жыл бұрын
Fat passengers fly up front
@Afrocanuk
@Afrocanuk 2 жыл бұрын
T-tails are the biggest example of reverse redundancy. Its best to have safety as the foundation rather than trivial convenience.
@julosx
@julosx 2 жыл бұрын
But T-tail planes can suffer from deep stall, both airliners (like DC-9s, MD-8x, 727 etc.) and fighters (F-104 Starfighters). They are not so great.
@user-qq2mo1ek2r
@user-qq2mo1ek2r 2 жыл бұрын
It's a lovely looking aircraft, quite a departure to put turbo props at the rear however, to my eye it looks great. Lower noise will be the main advantage.
@PujanPatel001
@PujanPatel001 2 жыл бұрын
NAL Saras also made a 19 seater turboprop aircraft with the engines at the back like the one shown here.
@burntsider8457
@burntsider8457 2 жыл бұрын
What's the difference between a "spherical shaped tank" and a spherical tank?
@stevenbeach748
@stevenbeach748 2 жыл бұрын
A spherical tank is perfectly round. A spherical shaped tank isn’t. Something like a squared oval.
@jono3079
@jono3079 2 жыл бұрын
So I'm curious, when you move all of that weight to the aft end of the plane, how do you compensate for such a significant change of CG in the design?
@michaelmccuskey8113
@michaelmccuskey8113 2 жыл бұрын
You move the wing backwards and have a longer forward fuselage, look at the fuselage proportions of an Md80 vs a 737 to get a good idea of this
@karlossargeant3872
@karlossargeant3872 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome Video!!!!
@CaptainSteve777
@CaptainSteve777 2 жыл бұрын
If they want the engines in the back, I'm surprised they didn't choose a pusher configuration.
@davidkingsley3244
@davidkingsley3244 2 жыл бұрын
They may have been concerned about the possibility of a propeller striking the ground with takeoff & landing attitudes
@WhiskeyGulf71
@WhiskeyGulf71 2 жыл бұрын
If you put the engines at the back you will have to counterweight the fuselage, so heavier than it would normally be.
@robertlackey7212
@robertlackey7212 2 жыл бұрын
@@Android-ng1wn Maybe they will have hydrogen AND jet fuel , it would reduce carbon emissions and be easier to design than just hydrogen , also better logistically because you could just use jet fuel if hydrogen is not available.
@robertlackey7212
@robertlackey7212 2 жыл бұрын
@@Android-ng1wn Fuel cells are pretty heavy , I think he was talking about Hydrogen , many people are talking about adding Hydrogen to fossil fuels , I remember Some one from Russia (Putin ?) talking about being able to sell a methane/hydrogen blend to Europe , to help Europeans meet their CO2 reduction goals.
@elultimo102
@elultimo102 2 жыл бұрын
I have read that pusher props are more efficient, and am curious as to why this wasn't done, given the engine position.
@brunobeloff9611
@brunobeloff9611 2 жыл бұрын
In the general case, I am sure that you are right. But propellers have big diameters. In this case, putting the props behind the engine nacelle would move the props further back, and create a BIG problem when the aircraft is rotated on take-off and flared on landing.
@piggeqco
@piggeqco 2 жыл бұрын
@@brunobeloff9611 Small dia multi blade saber type props
@Peasmouldia
@Peasmouldia 2 жыл бұрын
Another possible advantage is less asymmetry of thrust on one engine out performance. Also, less pitch change with throttle variation. Ta.
@benthurber5363
@benthurber5363 2 жыл бұрын
The biggest issue is kicking up FOD into the props from the wheels. But it should also reduce twin-prop noise on the ground as the fuselage will shield the noise better, one side to the other.
@eirfanhazlan9271
@eirfanhazlan9271 2 жыл бұрын
I personally delightful with the new design of the Embraer's new turboprop (my favourite was the ATR72). This mainly due that engines located at the rear are common back then, which i'm a fan of it, given most aircraft these days looks the same (twin jet engine that located under the wing). Although it's not as big as i hope for (something at the same size as the 737 and A320, just like the Maddog), at least it still exist (even though CRJ still exist).
@justincase5272
@justincase5272 2 жыл бұрын
Makes sense. The boundary layer back there gets a little thick, so the mechanical advantage is significant.
@MrFlint51
@MrFlint51 2 жыл бұрын
In the 1960s I flew in BAC11s, which were rear engined jets. The most notable oddity was that the faster it went, the quieter it got
@moteroargentino7944
@moteroargentino7944 2 жыл бұрын
Im curious about what they plan to do with the shift of gravity center when the hydrogen is consumed. In a regular plane most of the fuel is in said center or close to it so it's not a problem. But having all that weight at the back surely present some challenges.
@gordanbabic8028
@gordanbabic8028 2 жыл бұрын
they will move the passengers from the front of the plane to the back during the flight. closer to the toilet
@JoaoSilva-yh4dg
@JoaoSilva-yh4dg 2 жыл бұрын
Hydrogen doesn't weigh much, look it up. It's a single atom after all.
@MarcusNesbitt4
@MarcusNesbitt4 2 жыл бұрын
Many planes have been rear engined in the past, even if they were all jet engines. It can be done, and many did it including Embraer themselves
@Kalvinjj
@Kalvinjj 2 жыл бұрын
@@MarcusNesbitt4 True but still storing the fuel in the wings, this keeps the center of mass close to the center of pressure from the wings. I would imagine it would have about half the hydrogen at the back in a bigger tank and the other half at the front, say in smaller tanks in the underside. Not too hard of a problem to solve.
@stevenbeach748
@stevenbeach748 2 жыл бұрын
Large Lear Jets have most of the fuel in the aft fuselage. It’s not a problem
@Jeffco0001
@Jeffco0001 2 жыл бұрын
Think this is the greatest improvement in flying.
@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid
@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid 2 жыл бұрын
Love it. Including the livery design shown.
@yaosio
@yaosio 2 жыл бұрын
Wow I had no idea other Embraer planes were unreliable. Thanks for marketing to clear that up!
@spidorkthe1_551
@spidorkthe1_551 2 жыл бұрын
I actually like the noise of a turbo prop like the q400
@lionelgower6877
@lionelgower6877 2 жыл бұрын
I love it. It does make it seem more private jet class than just putting it on the wings.
@BrianJ001
@BrianJ001 2 жыл бұрын
Very good thinking Embraer!
@jjaus
@jjaus 2 жыл бұрын
The last turboprop I flew on was a SAAB 340. I'm 6'4" and I literally could not fit in the seat. I had to put my legs in the aisle. Hellish.
@theshadowman1398
@theshadowman1398 2 жыл бұрын
So does that Italian private jet thing. I will be happy when Embraer fixes their rock hard seats.
@loasmap
@loasmap 2 жыл бұрын
The piaggio avanti or something like that ?
@AFoxGuy
@AFoxGuy 2 жыл бұрын
@@loasmap yep that one.
@anthonyglee1710
@anthonyglee1710 2 жыл бұрын
@@loasmap Avantis frequently fly into London City Airport near my office. They are so so noisy and the sound pitch is eardrum busting. But they look cool.
@MarcusNesbitt4
@MarcusNesbitt4 2 жыл бұрын
I had never heard or seen this plane before - wow it looks good
@theshadowman1398
@theshadowman1398 2 жыл бұрын
@@anthonyglee1710 They are Italian, I would not expect anything less from the Italians. Want sensible and quiet go to the Swiss or the French
@sparty94
@sparty94 2 жыл бұрын
embraer makes great planes, i would be happy to fly on this machine.
@WestPac-ny9vi
@WestPac-ny9vi 2 жыл бұрын
I like the concept, I have always liked Turbo Props.
@mingming9604
@mingming9604 2 жыл бұрын
i don't mind flying in a turboprop once a while!
@dtremenak
@dtremenak 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder why they didn't also flip the engines around to a pusher configuration, like the EMB123?
@stevenbeach748
@stevenbeach748 2 жыл бұрын
Propellers are more efficient grabbing undisturbed air
@bobbystewart-drumsforlife1844
@bobbystewart-drumsforlife1844 2 жыл бұрын
This craft will most definitely be a success!
@Optimus-Prime-Rib
@Optimus-Prime-Rib 2 жыл бұрын
That 🦈 paint job is fantastic!
@johnroutledge9220
@johnroutledge9220 2 жыл бұрын
"...expected positions under the wings..." Boeing: Oh don't worry. We get up and down confused all the time too.
@nomebear
@nomebear 2 жыл бұрын
Having flown in all makes of turboprop aircraft I'm totally onboard with the Embraer reasoning especially when it comes to super light weight hydrogen. It holds tremendous energy per unit, as high as 142 MJ/kg, while jet fuel holds about 42 MJ/kg, thus yielding a much longer range over kerosene, and its a cheaper, cleaner, lighter fuel. Mounted in the rear, the engines are out of site, out of ear shot, and with proper vibration dampening, out of mind. It doesn't matter what type of propulsion they are so long as the plane's speed matches fan jets on medium and short range trips. However, with hydrogen powered engines, and two thirds more range, the airlines may try flying the turbo props long haul. How will that work out for the flying public?
@KISSMYACE3203
@KISSMYACE3203 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but having a 5-10k PSI bomb on board can be nerve-wracking to say the least. By volume, it has one of the lowest energy contents, so high pressure tanks are needed.
@ichich3978
@ichich3978 2 жыл бұрын
@@KISSMYACE3203 or keep it liquide at very very cold tepmperature...
@trungson6604
@trungson6604 2 жыл бұрын
​@@KISSMYACE3203 --Liquid Hydrogen (LH2) is the only realistic option and the safest option. LH2 can be stored in poly-urethane foam tank that weighs very little, yet is immensely strong due to the thickness required for thermal insulation, and the ultra-light fuel. This would mean no more post-crash fire in impact-survivable crashes because: 1.. the fuel tank is mounted in the rear-most portion of the fuselage that is least prone to damage during a crash, 2.. the immense strength of the fuel tank holding the ultra-lightweight fuel, 3.. LH2 is too cold to burn and must vaporize and mix with air, but by the time the LH2 is vaporized and mixed with air, it is so light that it floats away with flame front way above and well behind the aircraft and the passengers. Existing aircraft with wing-stored fuel is very deadly even with a minor crash when the wing ruptures and releases the enormous amount fuel around the aircraft which will catch fire and burn up the whole aircraft. I would feel much safer flying in a LH2-powered airplane than in a petroleum-fueled plane.
@KISSMYACE3203
@KISSMYACE3203 2 жыл бұрын
@@trungson6604 I question the validity of your statements.
@trungson6604
@trungson6604 2 жыл бұрын
@@KISSMYACE3203 --NASA had done research on this issue of LH2 storage for aerospace applications. Airbus is developing LH2 planes. You may wanna study aviation accidents to find out that a good proportion of crashes are not serious impact-wise, with intact cabin, but are fatal due to post-crash fires that engulfed the whole aircraft. What question do you have?
@matsv201
@matsv201 2 жыл бұрын
Everyone that thinks that hydrogen is a good option, for really anything, have failed the math
@boggy7665
@boggy7665 2 жыл бұрын
Surely the Embraer engineers would know this, so why mention it. PR effect only? ... The problem is getting enough hydrogen into the small space available, to enable any practical range, is that right? Pressures would have to be very high & so tanks and other hardware would have to be very strong and thus rather bulky and heavy. And long range? Forget it. Lucky to have enough take off & circle.
@crinolynneendymion8755
@crinolynneendymion8755 2 жыл бұрын
@@boggy7665 a few hundred thousand years ago, you would have been the one who thought the four legged creature galloping across the plain would never be useful in getting you to the lake in half the time. May I suggest a simple google search might prove instructive. It is of course more a matter of economic rather than technical barriers. Who will be the Tesla of aviation?
@codetech5598
@codetech5598 2 жыл бұрын
Hydrogen is a good option when it is a liquid form bonded to carbon and sold under the name of kerosene, jet fuel, etc.
@boggy7665
@boggy7665 2 жыл бұрын
@@codetech5598 Yes. This. Or even as an alcohol. H2 is too hard to store in any useful quantity, very high pressures, takes a lot of space even under ideal conditions (high pressures or adsorbed on some medium), damages the materials it contacts,... Take some courses in physics and physical chemistry and engineering, @Crinolynne Endymion. We've learned a few things since a few hundred years ago, apparently many have not learned critical thought though. EDIT-Read a PR piece that said might be feasible for flights under 500 miles
@crinolynneendymion8755
@crinolynneendymion8755 2 жыл бұрын
@@boggy7665 LoL, Typical! Trying to assert technical superiority. You really don't want to go there. You are of course aware that a Model T Ford had a range of 20 miles initially. You want to add a course in economics and the history of science and technology. Brush up on your data sources too while you're at it cos you seem to have some weird values colouring your vaunted critical thinking.
@AizadSayid
@AizadSayid 2 жыл бұрын
Good turboprop! This will rack up 250+ orders for sure!
@andrewsmith2591
@andrewsmith2591 2 жыл бұрын
With the engines placed toward the rear of the airplane does this place the centre of gravity behind the wings, and if so does this change the angle of attack for the rear stabilizers?
@wiledmanrandall
@wiledmanrandall 2 жыл бұрын
I think it will work if the replacement blades remain affordable.
@goodfella2400
@goodfella2400 2 жыл бұрын
With the MDs gone and 717s soon out the door, as enthusiasts, we are in desperate need of some T-tailed rear-engined aircraft. To save us from the monotonous bore this hobby has become.
@jeffcamp481
@jeffcamp481 2 жыл бұрын
That is a heck of an engineering idea!
@spiritzweispirit1st638
@spiritzweispirit1st638 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful , Truly Sweet Design! Congratulations!✈🌎🌍🌏
@ishotit....1195
@ishotit....1195 2 жыл бұрын
Was that Air Peace I saw there? Impressive 👍🏽.
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