Hi Jory, it was me who ask the Question why Nobody talks about Citizen in the live stream 👍🏻

Citizen deserves more love in the watch community, Citizen is what peaked my interest in Horology. If you want a nice looking watch, that is also affordable (and reliable) Citizen is a great option

Jory, I thought one of your Citizen bullet points was going to be "Citizen actually cares about chapter ring alignment".

I’ve had a citizen eco drive for 13 years and it still is ticking and looks pretty good despite lots of use. It will always been in my collection because I bought it when I was broke and it reminds me of my journey

Citizen also owns Miyota so IMHO the comparison with Seiko is way more accurate than with Casio.

You won't get anywhere near the qc issues with citizen compared to seiko. In fact I think seiko are taking the piss these days.

Eco-Drive was a real breakthrough in solar watches world. I have old very nicely looking Calibre (with moon phase) with original capacitor - it still works after 15 years (my son wears it now, he likes the face with roman numerals). I think some kind of Eco Drive deserves place in watch collection for it's historical significance next to GShock 5600.

The Citizen Blue Angels family is eminently collectable for aviation, field, and military watch fans.

I have Casio’s, Citizen’s and Seiko’s. I wear a G-Shock more than any other watch. I love my Seiko’s and enjoy wearing them the most. If I were to gift a watch to my nephew/son/brother it would be a Citizen.

If I want an affordable automatic I go Seiko, if I want an affordable Quartz.(Eco-Drive), I go Citizen. Both are reliable, and will last. Plus Citizen has the cool Atomic time keeping.

Eco-Drives are my no 1 watch of choice for friends and family for the same reasons you gave in the video. I've given 5 Eco-Drives as gifts already.

I'll side with Citizen every time. I am a dive instructor and have 3 or 4 Seiko dive watches, a Doxa, a couple of Omega Seamasters, and 3 Citizens. Other than for show, I always wear my Promaster Diver for work. >1000 dives on it.

Zero complaints about my EcoDrive. It's the watch I use to check or set the time on my autos.

I love both. I'm lucky enough to have a Citizen facility in my town, and once a year they have a "sidewalk sale" where all watches are up to 90% off!

Another thought….Seiko still has the “it is just a Seiko” vibe to it when it comes to non watch people. I have met at least three Grand Seiko wearers in the last year and as soon as I said “nice watch, Seiko, right?” the were extremely grateful and happy I noticed ….chatted watches a bit, but every time they all said “yes the new spring drive GMT, or whatever blah blah blah- it is even better than Rolex…..instantly putting themselves under a microscope or wanting validation or whatever….pretty much like they are trying to convince themselves it is better than a Rolex…. Here is the thing…..if you want a Rolex….buy it…..Seiko will NEVER have the cache of Rolex….it will have the cache of Citizen and Bulova though……always……always…..to non watch people at least….when I have met Citizen watch wearers. They simply say. Yeah it is just a Citizen, but I love it…..they don’t quantify it….they just love it…..will watch nuts like us know that SpringDrive is cooler than EcoDrive…yes. Will anyone else…..well……go ask anyone on the street which costs more a Rolex Airking or a Seiko SpringDrive (use the Sgla007 for arguments sake)……they WILL say Rolex…..they will also want the Rolex….soooo the point is…if you want a Rolex - buy one…not a Seiko….want a bad ass Seiko…buy a spring drive….want a great Japanese watch that won’t break the bank….buy a Citizen

Oh man! I love them both! But my heart definitely leans more Seiko. ❤️

You make some interesting good points, but I would also like to add that the finishing on Citizen watches particularly on the entry level models are generally on a higher level than the Seiko's are. Seiko's start's to compete finishing wise as one goes up the price scale. The design aspects of most of the Seiko's are generally much more appealing than most of the Citizen offerings plus Seiko invests more aesthetically into the look of their dial's than Citizen does. I would say Citizen's are superior when it comes to quartz teqnology and Seiko more so in their mechanicals. I have owned both Eco Drive and reqular Citizen quartz watches in the past, and both lasted more than twenty years of daily use whithout missing a beat. I would always recommend them whithout hesitation. Lastly, Citizen watches are on a much higher quality and price scale than Casio. Casio exsell mostly in their digital watch offerings. ⌚

I own both and love both. I am a HUGE fan of CItizen's Promaster line, they are tough as nails, always working, always accurate, look good and personally, I think Citizen does far better with their QC. Citizen also has their 'Chronomaster' line and just released another line of ULTRA high accuracy (also ultra expensive) movements/watches. I love both brands, but you cannot get nearly the quality/features per dollar with Seiko that you can with Citizen.

Personally, I think all of the big 3 Japanese watch makers are pretty comparable as far a appeal to the general public. They all have their strong and weak points. I own more Citizen watches that Seiko or Casio, but I like them all for different reasons. I might add that all of the watches I have from the big 3, are solar powered, and function beautifully. I don't see much point in buying a battery quartz watch in this day and age, where similar solar powered watches are so readily available. Solar is more ecologically friendly, and more reliable...ever had a battery watch die on you when you need it most? So, unless there is something particularly special about a quartz battery watch (like a Grand Seiko), I don't see the point in buy one. But that's just me, to each their own. Great video, great topic!!

I have Seiko, Citizen, Casio, Timex, Russian, homage and vintage watches, and love them all... if it tells the time and looks cool, it's fine by me... 👍⌚

Have three Citizens, all Eco-Drive, and four Seikos, one 5, two solars and a Kinetic (well, the last one I gave to a second cousin that I love like a son). While the Citizens have never failed me, always a second to three per month, The Seiko solars and the Kinetic their capacitators stopped working, I had to put them new capacitators, and one is waiting for the fix.

I started getting into watches thanks to my Nighthawk. Citizen will always have a special place in my heart

Seiko has been helped by featuring in a heap of movies

Citizen got The Citizen Chronomaster lines and the 001 caliber though, I have no idea why enthusiasts always go with GS’ 9F if they want quartz. Go Citizen!

Citizen vs. Casio would be interesting. I'm a big fan of Casio's Edifice Line

You missed to mention that Citizen also own La Joux Perret, a Swiss movement manufacturer, which also own brands like Angelus and Arnold & Son. Citizen also make cheap watches like Q&Q for the lower masses consumers and high end collections like Campanola and Chronomaster (also called 'The Citizen). Most of which follow watch KZfaq channels are of course a watch enthusiasts hardcore or not. You are right about the average Joe, they does not know much about brand history or tier level of most watch brands. They buy because the design interested them, affordable in their price range, convenience quartz or solar which is a grab & go watch and accuracy. As for Seiko, most of their collections are from their previous old catalogs. Example; Turtle, Tuna, Monster, 300MM, 62Mas, Capt.Williard and etc. Seiko hardly have new design comparing to Citizen. How Seiko is targeting their watch enthusiasts, are to keep making and selling the same watch design with changing different colors (and specs sometimes), like what Casio is doing with their G-Shock; example DW5600 and DW6900, just keep changing the colors of strap and case. Citizen and Seiko are both great watchmakers brand with rich history and well recognize in the horology world. Citizen are more adventurous in their collections with new design and innovative technology. On the other, Seiko loves to look back their old collections and reissue them for sales. For conclusion I love my Japanese watches, Citizen, Seiko and Casio (even Orient too)☺️

citizen is hitting the higher end this year with their super pricey in house movement automatic watch. I think citizen still needs to bring the watch size down and introduce more interesting designs. But it has potential for sure. they have lots of cool stuff that they barely advertise like the quartz watch that loses like 3 seconds per year.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's almost Coke vs. Pepsi. Once I swore on Pepsi, now I only drink Coke. When I was younger and "liked" watches I wore a Citizen. When I grew older and became more of an "enthusiast" I gravitated to Seiko. Funny how tastes change because Citizen does make some great pieces. My formal dress watch is a Bulova that I have had for over 20 years.

I prefer citizen to seiko any day of the week you have superior build quality and QC from a citizen watch Any seiko under £500 comes with a cheap bracelet mineral crystal and a dated movement

I think the fact that Seiko makes more (and better) mechanical movements, is a big reason why. I love Seiko. I also love Citizen and own 3 or 4 eco-drive watches all of which are high quality, well made watches. I enjoy quartz as well as mechanical watches.

If I recall correctly. Citizen make the most accurate watch you can buy with the Calibre 0100.

Citizen also bought Ateliers de Monaco, their watches are the ones that can content vs Credors or the upper level Grand Seiko (or even Patek, Vacheron, Lange, those levels basically).

Citizen is a bigger company, and sells more watches than SEIKO too. It's just that most of their reaaally good lines tend to stay inside Japan and can only be bought as JDM imports. Chronomasters, Exceeds, Attesas, Campanolas etc etc. It's somewhat unfortunate, but oh well..C: Citizen is also world leader on Titanium alloy/coating technologies (see Duratect), and they license their tech to other companies, even outside the watch industry too!

Just got my first citizen pro master black dial green bezel. Love it so much. Have a good one - Peter from New Hampshire

When I was in my 20's, I used to buy Armitron/Relic etc... watches because i wanted to have a watch collection. But then I fell out of love with collecting watches and stopped wearing them altogether. Until my cousin bought me the Citizen Tony Stark watch. By far the most expensive watch I ever had! Loved it! Huge Marvel fan. And honestly it is gorgeous. It is my favorite watch, and probably always will be. I wanted to wear it all the time, but i didn't want to get it damaged at work, so after watching a LOT of KZfaq watch videos, i got a Casio G-Shock. So i had an everyday watch and a work watch. Now i wanted a Sunday watch(my only day off) so i got a Seiko SNKN37, my first automatic watch. So now I had a quartz watch with a rubber strap, a solar watch with a bracelet and an automatic watch with a leather strap. And best of all, the Citizen was a gift, the G-Shock was half off ($70) and the Seiko was on Clearance ($60), so I didn't pay full price for anything. My collection is complete.... HAHAHAHAHA still can't stop watching watch videos and planning my next purchase and trying to justify it lol

What drives me crazy about Citizen is the oddball lug widths.

I just bought the Citizen Kurashiro, it compares well with any Presage, mine has the Green dial so I'm pleased with Citizen's efforts in the Automatic Mechanical sector

9 Seiko’s 6 Citizen’s 6 Casio’s presently in my collection. They all have their pluses and minuses and will always have a place in my collection! Thanks Jory!

Heeey! This subject touches home really well! I'm more or less a citizen fanboy myself cuz when I bought my first "luxury" watch, and ... my First watch, really, was a Pro Master, Diver with depth meter, chronograph, without a tachymeter, but a dive timer bezel, for me it was THE Ultimate ONE watch collection, it did EVERYTHING you can ask from a watch to ever do. It was and still is one of my favorite watches, the Citizen BJ2115 Series, right now, I'm hardly working to convince myself that a Seiko skx 009 is better than my citizen Ny0040, which frankly, it is not, my citizen the watch goes one-minute sloe A WEEK, while the skx009 is one minute in the future A DAY, and I took it to a watch repair shop and they said they regulated it and guess what it doesn't work while my Ny0040 I bought from an Italian War Veteran, so I presume the watch Does have more history than I can Ever have. My point is, Seiko is overrated, I'd rather wear my Trusty F-91W or GShock over the skx all day er' day!

In comparing the two brands, check out two things. 1. The bracelet for fit, comfort, and workmanship. and 2. Quality of case finishing and dial operation. I have both brands and I think Citizen wins….hands down. Their bracelets are finished better, are more comfortable, and feel like an expensive watch bracelet. A lot of Seiko bracelets just feel cheaply made. The minute and second hands of Citizen watches line up on minute markers on all my 7 watches. The bezels on my dive watches have the “0” marker line up perfectly with the 12 marker on the dial. With both of my Seiko divers, the bezel “0” was on one side of the 12 marker or the other. Also the second and minute hands were slightly off the minute marker when the second hand hit 12. Little things like this cause me to favor Citizen. And…the Citizen Eco Drive is just a butt kicker. Just put them on and go. And they are ungodly accurate. Citizen watches are under estimated. They make damn good, accurate, and affordable watches.

If Citizen put out more automatic watches in the 250-500 dollar range they would clean house

I travel a lot, and eco-drive has been a great companion (Navihawk does everything). Also a loss, regardless of reason, won't hurt too bad, financially that is. Reliability, toughness and good looking tool watches. I like them so much I do have a beater/diver, a Weekend, a daily and a chrono of eco drives to wear depending on the moods!

I've wondered a bit why I rarely see reviews for Citizen watches on the various you tube channels I follow regularly like yours. You may be right on the collector aspect for seikos. Like my sarb033 and sarb017 that were added to the collection back when this rabbit hole opened up. Lol! I do have 2 Citizens in there as well. One ecodrive promaster tsuno chronograph and a grand classic with the 9184 movement which runs at 28k bph. Both are great looking watches and built well. They both make some awesome watches, seiko just seems to get the most attention like you said. And as far as the casio comparison, all I have in casio are my 3 Gshocks. Thanks for the reviews you provide, and the rants are entertaining as hell at times. Good luck with the sour patch auction!

i started with Seikos but Citizen has captured my heart. QC is better for Citizen now. I love my Citizen Jp2000-08e diver more than my Tuna now

Great comparison…never really thought about Seiko catering more to watch enthusiasts, but I think you nailed it. Still love both brands…!

Don't forget about the Bulova Precisionist. +/- 10 seconds a year and affordable. I've had mine for 3 months and 0 second error.

I have had a Casio (W-250 Marlin) since 1982 (and it still works) and currently having 5 Casio's (all operational) and I have had Citizen watches since 1986 (two retired, three operational in current rotation) Seiko's since 1994 (sold one, still have 4 operational) and two Orient watches and two Orient Star watches (all those 4 Orients in current rotation) They all form my Japanese watch collection. And they form the daily use watch rotation. They are all good. But for me it is often choice between Orient and Citizen, as Seiko's tend to be "background players" (unless really needed specific function eg Chronograph) in use 'sometimes' and "Casio's tend to be in use when going gets tough..." So, from my viewpoint; Citizen vs Orient might be even more interesting than Casio vs Citizen... As said, they are all good watches...

I have always been impressed with the quality of both the Citizen and Seiko watches. I really could not choose between them.

It boils down to design language; namely, Seiko has one, and markets it better. E.g., everyone mentions that Seiko grows its own quartz crystals; well, so does Citizen. Or that Seiko is completely vertically-integrated; so is Citizen (Citizen does Seiko one better, and manufactures the equipment used to make its watches). Seiko is much, much better at managing their brand image. (It also helps that Seiko's design language appeals to enthusiasts, since most models are sporty-dressy, and feature case sizes in the enthusiast-preferred 36-to-40mm range. I couldn't even begin to describe Citizen's design aesthetic since it's so jumbled.) Seiko designs better watches; Citizen builds them.

A lot of citizens vintage pieces which I have some in my collection are very underrated and cool. Like the crystal seven for example.

I love both of them, and I have several models of each. They are rugged, nice looking and fairly precise for the price.

Spot on. I really like my Citizens and couldn't agree more!

I suppose you could describe me as a watch enthusiast, and I have a radio-controlled Citizen Ecodrive as my beater watch. I have no idea what model it is, but it looks nice and I can pick it up and throw it on without worrying about setting or winding or changing the battery etc. Perfect for those mornings when you're running late etc.

Thanks for mentioning my SUN065. Love it

I recently de-toxed myself from an Apple Watch stint and went straight to Seiko. Bought a Prospex Samurai PADI and am trying to find a valid excuse for me to buy an LX with SD movement. I will find the excuse soon I’m sure. In the meantime I discovered this channel and I like it a lot. Thank you for your work!

I’m rocking a Casio GD-350, GA-2100-1A1, and Seiko Arctura Kinetic Chronograph, circa 1990 in VG condition. I’ve got a brand new Citizen Promaster SST Ecodrive on layaway at my local AD and I can’t wait to get it on my wrist.

Citizen does have some great watches like THE CITIZEN,Fugu divers,rick mears tough eco-drive,as an example.however they have a lot,and I mean a lot of watches where there is so many things going within the dial its hard to get a quick read,very cluttered and quirky designs.

Thanks! This confirms my gut feeling about buying a citizen divemaster.... all I want is for it to always work and be able to go swimming and snorkeling with it!

My first decent quality watch I’ve ever owned is a citizen eco drive that I got a few years ago. Still really love it and think I’ll get a new one at some point and stick with that brand. Great to watch your videos and learn about the different brands.thanks 👍

After my Seiko crapped out after two months, my love goes to Citizen. I have four Eco-Drives now. Flawless.

Seiko has been my nr. 1 for many years now.

Good video, thanks. When you look at the divers line of watches Seiko are definitely more iconic and collectable and look better and appeal more to collectors. However, if you compare a Citizen Eco Drive diver to a Seiko Solar diver, Citizen is way better value ie signed crown, solid end links, milled clasp, comparable loom and a chapter ring that is aligned properly. And you can get a ISO certified Citizen diver for about €210 from a bricks and mortar store with all of the above. Some Seiko divers more than 3 times that price don't offer that level of finishing.

Eco drive + radio control is the best combo for reliable timepiece. Sure, it depends on geography, but I think in Europe and Japan Citizen is unbeatable in this category.

I've owned several over the years, and I've always loved my Citizen watches. The Blue Angels-themed Skyhawk is my personal favorite, but anything with the U680 movement has been fantastic.

I have both makes in my collection but I lean towards Citizen, mainly because I do a lot of hiking and scuba diving and I have tool watches by Citizen pro-master range that are great back ups for both activities. Saying that though, one of my dream watches and the watch il have on my wrist that will tell me not just the time but also that I'm doing well, will be Grand Seiko. Great video and topic. Casio is God tier by the way 👍

Citizen watches have never let me down. Seiko watches have repeatedly.

I think Citizen is great. I do think that their design and models are a bit more out there than most Seiko's and that's why people maybe don't talk about them as much, but they have some amazing watches with beautiful finishing too. Talk about the Series 8, the Caliber 0100 dress watch, the "in-house" Caliber 0200

I love both Citizen and Seiko. I own more Seiko, but there are several Citizen models I would love to pick up! My latest preowned Citizen purchase was a Skyhawk Blue Angels AT model. It’s a little picky about where in my house it will pick up the atomic clock signal, but I have worked it out so I can keep it on a south facing window sill. There it gets plenty of light to keep charged and reliably picks up the atomic clock signal. it does world time zones, has a chronograph, count-down timer, GMT dial and is always perfectly accurate. I will never use the calculations on the bezel, but it is also cool to look at! The Seiko “Flighty” IS also very capable, but is neigher solar nor atomic clock radio sync. For me, the Citizen wins every day of the week!

got some of both, they both have their place in my collection...

Seiko man myself, grand, king or any watch with a Seiko automatic movement I'm all about it..

This is interesting I never thought too much about this.

As a watchmaker I love them both, but I miss the awesome automatic chronographs from the 70s...

Great video. Keep em coming.

I love the Citizen PCAT with the Blue leather strap, etc.. Omg.. What a beautiful watch.

I have a sun065 with the tuna can. Love it!

Another great video. I love my Citizen E101 and my Seiko 5. I sometimes wear my Casio WVA-M630D-1AJF. I like affordable good watches. I even love my Timex Weekender watches because I can hear them tick!

I actually have one of those 2020 Presage limited editions. So I chuckled a bit when I saw it flash on screen. :D

Hyped for the Casio comparison

I have a 70's era Citizen Bullhead chronograph & new Seiko 5 SRPD63K1. I like both of them but, there is surely some magic in the Bullhead that no other watch in my collection has. The best impulse buy for me yet😂

I only bought my Citizen is to use it as a beater around my workplace. But holy hell it sure takes a beating.

the high end citizen have the same quality as grand seiko. and citizen has the incredible cal.0100 with plusminus 1 a year! i collect both brands.

I have both of us and seiko's for semi-formal or formal occasions. I have good-looking citizens and cascio's for daily wear. I do love my squares citizen paradigm gold and black watch for formal occasions

This was a fantastic video. I am starting to get into watches, and my first watch I bought is the Citizen Blue Angel eco drive. I love it! My next one is prob gonna be a Seiko. There are a few watches I am eyeing which blow me away.

Ive got several of both.. enjoy both for what they are! One thing i really love about the citizen i have is its perpetual calendar! White ice looking dial, eco drive, just the way it looks. It's a really nice watch. I've also got a seiko perpetual calendar that's a kinetic quartz.. silver & black. Black dial.. it's got my favorite hands, one of the best looking watches i own, but i enjoy switching out my watches from time to time & i have work watches & watches that i just enjoy. My problem with the kinetic seiko..... i have to wear it! I can't give it enough wrist time at home to keep it charged & i do not want to wear it to work & scratch it up. I bought a winder.. not for my mechanical watches but to charge my kinetic only to find out that don't work. My eco drive... well i just give them a little sunnyshine time & they are happy as can be..

Casio is just on another level compare to any other watch brands.

Great points.

I love and collect both brands. I have a Seiko 5 6119 8073 watch stolen from my RAF locker in 1972 returned to me from Australia 34 years later a long and convoluted story. I own a Citizen Bullhead Chronograph now worth silly money since appearing in a movie. I also have a very unusual orange and cream coloured Promaster Bullhead LCD chronograph. So I rate both brands about the same in desirability.

I don't actually get it, but at the same time I do prefer seiko for the looks. But I have a seiko 7002 and a 74 citizen 21 jewel day/date and the citizen has manual wind, the seiko doesn't. They didn't put manual wind in their watches for a long time even in the skx007 to my knowledge. So for me, my heart says seiko, but my head says citizen is a better, I feel I get more bang for my buck with citizen.

Citizen has the Q&Q brand that targets Casio and Swatch markets, then the Reguno brand a little bit upscale so is their Beauty and Youth brand. I believe they still have other brands under their umbrella targeting multiple markets.

15 years ago I bought my first divers watch from Zales. It was the first watch I'd owned that had a screw down gasketed crown. Water got in the watch. Took it back to Zales believing it was a warranty failure. It was returned and repaired no charge. They sent a note along with the watch asking me to please remember to screw down the crown snug next time I set the watch. Water came in through the crown I'd left out. The watch company? Citizen. That was my first Citizen. It has not been my last.

I wish Citizen’s Chronomasters would get more love. +/- 1 second per year! Looking forward very much to a Casio/Citizen comparison.

I love my Echo Drive Citizen!!! Most accurate and best watch I have ever owned. I check the time on WWV each month and it is SPOT ON. Perfect time to the second! 👍

Great video! I'm new to watch collecting, and my first watch is a ny004 full lume (my only one for now, and I totally love it). And you're spot on, I think Citizen sits right in between Seiko and Casio. Have you made that video? Would love to have your take on that! Cheers!

Perfectly put, watches that just work and stay accurate.

Good video Jory. Interesting perspective as usual sir. I don't have a need for either of these two brands. I like Swiss mechanical movement and my Casio Mudmaster for getting dirty.

Citizen makes good mouvements with Miyota like Swatch/ETA in the Mid-range. Even Kurono Tokyo use their mouvement for their watches

Nice episode old sport: Citizen's ECO-DRIVE is JUST TURBO-BRILLIANNNT, everybody needs one! Yeah, but Seiko with those ULTRA-IDOLS like 62MAS or CAPT.WILLARD... the heart beats faster, thats it. 😎😎😎

Great video. Also, I’m curious, where might I be able to purchase the Bulova 50th anniversary lunar pilot?

I got all od the holy trinity (Seiko, Citizen, Orient) and i absolutely love them equally. All have their own particularities & also Orient is extremly underrated.

Nice vid, thanks.