Was literally about to type that in the comments.

The only problem is when you are needing a collective term for the cultural group? For example, “inter generational homes are more common in (Hispanic) households”. Every group will say something different: your Salvadoran neighbor, the Mexican-American “dreamer” college student, the Ecuadorian store owner, the Venezuelan refugee, the Honduran farm laborer, the NYC born Puerto Rican; each may respond differently. For that matter, how you even approach the “is this the right term conversation” is an awkward social situation as well.

Calling people whatever they want to be called is for spineless moral less adults. A slippery slope you clearly haven’t thought about long enough to see how stupid it would be to just “ call people what they want”

Yes, none of my friends/family in south america use latinx, it's so impractical to say out loud. My cousins use "latine" and I think that makes the most sense and is easy to pronounce and remember

Yeah in spanish that's like saying Latinh... Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

It was coined by Puerto ricans though

@@benjaminpeters6729 lol no it was written in an academic paper regarding Puerto Rican studies it was made on the internet in 2004.

@@AFK0099 it was a puerto Rican publication

I find curious that United States people try so hard to not racialize 'latino' people but the term 'latino' is itself a racialization of our people. You're so interested on the race, on both positive and negative ways that it is astonishing.

Simple solution if you have a simple mind. It fixed nothing.

Imagine asking a man what he would like to be called and he replies a women and then walked into a women’s bathroom. You are the type to pussyfoot around and be like well he identifies with woman so I guess he can go in there. Shut up and move out the way of real Men.

I heard a story once about a Google group created for Black people who worked in tech, and one guy started griping about how it should be called "African-Americans in tech" to which someone in the chat replied "I'm French."

For some reason their afraid to say "black". Ive seen kids in Canada refer to black people in the country as "african-american". Which is worst cause Canadians hate being called Americans lol

people get offended over getting called their own race. bruh, you're brown if you're brown, black if you're black etc. race isn't even that important to me but i know what i am racially and i wouldn't and shouldn't be offended for literally being recognised as my own race

@@akeiltheseal At least in that case, Canada is in North America so it still kind of makes sense.

Race is one thing but, African-American is really an ethnicity. The term is supposed to describe the group of black Americans who's lineage in Africa is somewhat unknown due to erasure process during the Atlantic Slave Trade. African-Americans have our own cultural foods, dialects, traditions, music etc. and those things are the culmination African traditions & colonial American traditions. . So, no I definitely wouldn't call a British black person or Canadian black person, or Jamaican person an "African-American" I just think there is often confusion with entertainers from other countries because many actors play AA roles. Like, I genuinely didn't know Idris Elba was British until I saw his interview. He has a very good AA accent. You can't even tell.

As a Latin American, yes, Latin American is by far the best way

@@ernestoteran2771 I like "Latine" too

@@Andrew_Young Agreed. Latin-American works pretty well, Latine is a good solution as a step towards gender-neutral language that doesn't completely break the Spanish language.

@@Andrew_Young easy, if it's a man is a "latino", if it's a woman is a "latina". That works for the 95% of the people. "Latine" is stupid and even doesn't exist in Spanish.

​@@corneliusscipio777 "easy, if it's a man is a "latino", if it's a woman is a "latina". " Thanks so much genius, I know. We're talking about what you should call Latin American people when referring to the *group*. E.g. "20% of Latinos are first generation immigrants". Some people find it sexist to refer to an entire group in the masculine way, so there's a desire to use a gender-neutral term instead. ""Latine" is stupid and even doesn't exist in Spanish." Using "Latine" would be changing Spanish so that it doesn't refer to all Latin American people in the masculine way. That's why I *never* use it. I can definitely see why people would be offended by me changing their native language when it's not my native language.

Finding favorite creators in other favorites comments sections always makes my day

the "just ask" mentality has helped me SO much. im pretty good with most things, but sometimes i just get nervous and say the wrong thing. then i stress about it for way longer than the person i possibly offended. for example- i just got a new coworker whos nonbinary. im trans myself, but im a man, so the nonbinary stuff gets confusing to me. especially since they use she/her AND they/them, but they prefer if you use one more than the other. i called her maam without thinking the other day and then immediately started overthinking it and making myself feel guilty, when i honestly had no idea if they even noticed. then like 20 minutes later i thought "wait, why didnt i just ask?"... turns out they didnt even notice, nor would they have been bothered if they did lmao. next time i'll just ask before making myself feel bad! ime, most people dont mind slip ups as long as they can tell youre *trying* to be respectful, and you listen when they correct you

It's curious how United States people get called everyone south of their border as 'latinos' even though there's plenty of a variety of different ethnicities and cultures even in one country

Or simply welcome their correction. Instead of over-thinking labels, lol.

@@misaelrobles1865 of course center America is completely excluded, but besides that it's not the US?? We all globaly categorize the world by continents?? And ofc it's explicit not all cultures share experiences and culture. But it's just a generalization to make things easier lol. We Latinos still have large amount of things in common tho, even if the countries on their own don't share 100% of the culture there are experiences that ties us all as a partial continent and explain behaviors, reactions, opinions, and all that.

Lo has expresado de manera perfecta. Muchas gracias. A pesar de que nací y vivo en Latinoamérica, soy de usar mucho más el inglés, porque me cuesta más expresarme en español. Así que agradezco lo bien que lo has expresado.

That's pretty interesting. My amiga mexicana uses "mexican@"

@@Daye04 how do you pronounce that? Or just in written form?

Pero eso sólo sucede en ciertos grupos con ciertas ideología, en la gran mayoría de casos o se desdobla el lenguaje (utilizando "o" y "a" en la misma frase) o simplemente se sigue utilizando la "o" como neutral (que en español el o es o masculina o neutral dependiendo del contexto). Y esto sin contar que la "neutralización" del español es extremadamente inconsistente, por una parte hablan que la "e" por algún motivo es la neutral (¿porque no la "i" o la "u"?), pero igual cambian palabras que terminan con e, por ejemplo presidente (que en esencia es efectivamente neutral)

@@micaelamessinar8241 it's only used in written form. Spoken, you would have to say the entire thing

That’s rough, but not surprising.

To be fair to you. Latinx is less about properly representing you and more social signaling that they're part of the elite class.

I don't really think it's the same at all. Yes Latino is technically gender encompassing, but their issue with the term is that it is men and then women to the side. Just like how businessmen is used for all business-people sometimes. Folks is strictly gender neutral, not gender encompassing.

@@Frostedzeo they were comparing it to Latine/Latin, not Latino.

People who use folx aren't misunderstanding the gender neutrality of "folks" Have you ever actually asked someone using folx why they chose that specific word over folks?

@@supernova622 I always thought it was like ax and ask tbh. Never equated the x with any sort of gender neutrality

There isa reason people use x in folx

Well said 👏🏼

Debe ser muy complicado para los americanos el debate del lenguaje inclusivo. Digo, es algo demasiado complejo para siquiera empezar a explicarle a alguien que no habla español

What hurts a bit, as a kid of latin parents, a lot of them don't speak Spanish but love talking about their heritage. I'm glad my mother taught me to speak Spanish while I learned English. Reading, hearing and talking in the language of that culture is important. It makes one feel connected more than "please refer to me as latinx"

I'm Brazilian and we use that term in Portuguese too!

@@raiorai2 I'm Peruvian and here LatinX is used but only in the very tight progressive circle of the capital city.

Yes thank you!! Latine sería la mejor opción.

No jajajaj dios no! No todos los latinos de hecho la mayoría, no nos tomamos enserio lo de la "e" lo siente compañere, pere difiere con este comentarie xD

@@sydney5044 cuando dices "la mayoría", ¿en qué te basas? Además, ¿no tienes un argumento racional alguno que te impida escribir civilizadamente? ¿Por qué la gente "guerrera del español" como tú siempre recurre al chiste fácil sin siquiera razonar por dos segundos? ¿Si sabes que el sufijo e no se aplica a sustantivos y verbos, no? ¿O ni siquiera en eso razonan?

That's interesting as I had no idea that "Person of Color" can be pronounced in another language in a way that comes across as offensive, lol. So I guess for some ethnic groups, Black or Mixed is the best term to use in regards to their language. Btw, I doubt some Whites will give up relating themselves as a racial group. Though It's nice thought along with if only we could all be truly referred to as the human race.

You do see the problem with what you described, correct? Also, Latin is not a race.

Even in America, many people don't like the term people of colour, it's literally the 1950s term used to segregate non-white people from white people (doesn't really make sense White people have pigmentation too and even if they're pale still have some color due to blood being red and giving skin a slight pinkish tint.

One other thing! there's a way to pronounce Latinx in Portuguese/Spanish... it's just... kinda ugly, a bit unnatural and sounds very wrong, to me and most ppl I know at least

@@gfklug what is the way? Falo espanhol e nunca ouvi falar como se pronuncia, até agora, eu acho. E também concordo com você no termo "latine".

@@FaiaHalo I think I've heard it's like Latin-equis that most Spanish speakers end up saying when they try to pronounce it. But I'm not 100% on that.

@Aaron L. @Faia Halo Certo! Latinequis ou algo como Latinks foram as pronúncias que eu já ouvi

@@gfklug ohh ohh muito obrigada!! I've seen someone else comment on that on a comment here as well. That they always pronounced it as latinks.

Siii gracias!! Yo también soy nb y me cansa que cierto grupo de gente "defensora del español" trate de dictaminar quién queda incluide o excluide de la conversación y literalmente del idioma.

Ya I've been wondering, is it pronounced "lateen" or "lateenay"?

My understanding is that Latine came about as a pronunciation of Latinx because the e is shortened equis

@@smileyp4535 in Spanish we have one constant pronunciation per vowel. the last 'e' is actually pronounced like the 'e' in 'bed'. and the 'i' is indeed pronounced like 'ee' so it's like lateen + e

@@citrinariana not really. the 'e' is actually an attempt to use a vowel for gender neutral stuff (-o is masculine and -a is feminine; and specifically when talking about people, since we're not going to see a degendering of the language any time soon) like non-binary people or groups with people of different genders

@@Nica_R ah! Thank you. Is it OK to not have the vowel at the end? or it doesn't matter if "e" pronounced "eh" (like in 'bed' or "elle")? Also for those who say "Latin" like white people do (as in *not 'lateen'*) how about just no vowel at all? Since it's basically an English word at that point?

En Español existe "latino" para el género masculino, "latina" para el género femenino y "latín" para la lengua clásica de la antigua Roma. Súper simple.

That’s interesting. I personally don’t like to be called Hispanic but maybe that’s just me.

Hispanic has the useful trait of just sidestepping the question entirely.

Hispanic and Latino aren't actually interchangeable though, not all latino countries have Spanish as a main language

How can you call yourself Hispanic if you are not from Spain?

@@JoseLuisLazcanoLeal Probably something to do with Spain shoving itself onto the Americas.

Your growing up is almost the same as mine. Call myself Hispanic or Puerto Rican. Never referred to myself as a being a "Latina." As a Puerto Rican in the US my upbringing was way different from other Hispanics in America, especially, newly immigrated Hispanics. I have never had to worry about having a green card or anything immigration status related. The phrase, "Go back to your country!" is a joke to me because, hey, buddy, this is my country. I have no other country I can "go back to." My Spanish is almost nil because I grew up here and my immediate family are all English as their mother tongue Puerto Ricans. You have to go the older generations and they are almost all dead. So, I never had anyone around that I could practice the little Spanish I knew. Never mind that I don't fit the stereotype of what your average American thinks what a "Latina" looks like. I am pale most of the year. (I can tan easily.) I have freckles and have a generic mainland European look. I've been mistaken for anything from Spanish to German to Hungarian. So, yeah, on forms I put "white" and then "Hispanic."

@@JoseLuisLazcanoLeal I believe Hispanic is only defined as being part of or descended from a Spanish-speaking population. And that Latino was a sub-category of Hispanic. Granted, this is according to the US Census. So a bunch of white dudes. If there is a different distinction between Hispanic and Latin American as defined by Spanish-speaking cultures, I am unaware of it. Once again, I am not a good representative of my heritage.

@@mekkio77 I'm not dark-skinned either. My family is mostly descended from the Mediterranean (because Puerto Ricans come from everywhere) so we have dark hair but lighter skin. I've never gotten "Go back to your country" but I've been called a spic a few times. Usually when speaking to someone in Spanish in a store to help them find something or whatever. Apparently, they have no idea how badly I speak Spanish. My dad says my pronunciation always makes me sound French. No idea why.

Please read other comments, some Latinx people (including me) do use it, for our own reasons (mine is aesthetic and arbitrary).

@@biguattipoptropica I don't know what to tell you other than to follow your own advice.

Interesting - it seems similar here in Canada (esp. in WC/Edmonton with the local Elks sports team - grammar rules aside it’s just common sense to accept what someone wants out of respect)

"Eskimo" is usually considered an offensive word here in North America. However, Yupik people are also "Eskimos" but are not Inuit, and Aleut, Haida, and Tlingit people are sometimes lumped in with "Eskimos" but are also not Inuit. So if you just replace every use of "Eskimo" with Inuit you're not necessarily being accurate either. In the US we use "Alaska Native" on the documents which have been updated (some of the older ones still use the older terminology) but obviously this doesn't work for other countries and also officially only applies to enrollment and not descent. As of now this issue hasn't really been solved and it's still up in the air what word, e.g. government documents should use. But on a case-by-case basis you should definitely ask people what they want or use the specific group if you can (when you're referring to an individual).

@@annelooney1090 Thanks - this a pretty confusing topic for me. I’m a born and lifelong (over five decades) resident of Edmonton (of Settler-descent) but I don’t feel I know enough to make a clear cut call either way. I know our Constitutional Charter clarifies Inuit as a the proper name. I know the institutions up north use Inuit. I know about the Arctic games. I know the travel connection to Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montréal and Labrador. I’ve been personally called out wearing sports apparel referencing our old Football team name by a person I met on my own (I don’t *love* the name Elks - but it is what it is). I’ve know people who have strong feelings about the old name. I’ve been to Alaska and the people I’ve met (Anchorage, Fairbanks, Seward, Skagway, etc) seem to encompass a pretty broad cross section of people overall. I feel as a “southerner” we can learn a lot from the Inuit and the North in general but this language issue is a bit tricky for a lot of people… 🤷

"Language doesn't change how people behave or think"-- right?! @ everyone who still believes in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.

That example only proves that non-gendered language can't completely eradicate sexism from a sexist society, which is not something anyone is claiming. In response, someone could argue that the sexism problem in Turkey could be worse, and that non-gendered language might be a reason why it isn't. The exact effect of language on behaviour and thought doesn't seem to be a settled debate in linguistics, though it obviously isn't a 1:1 relationship.

Yes THANK YOU

that's clever!

Fun fact, not intended as an "um actually", there is still one word that does have gendered forms in English. Men have blond hair, while women have blonde hair. For some reason, that one word still has gender.

@@Tobatcie I had to look it up, but you're right. It's French.

“ask Latin American QUEER people” Fuck yes! Thank you. Having been on college campuses in the US when Latinx was gaining traction, watching the tide turn against it has been kind of infuriating to me because 1) it erases the fact that Latine folks living in the US ARE LATINE (“Latinx was made up by leftist anglos” is literally ethnostate propaganda, you have to believe there are no Latinx folks in Latinx Studies departments in the US to believe this), and 2) Latinx queer folks were absolutely enthusiastic about it on my campus, as were Latinx student orgs who changed their names to be more inclusive. Watching the narrative shift to “this is disrespectful to LatinOs” has made me feel like I’m going crazy, like I imagined my life experiences. Latine does seem more popular now, but I can’t see the backlash against Latinx as anything other than right wing bigotry and rewriting history. And I do find the whole “it’s a term made up by anglos” line to absolutely be Latine erasure in the US, like “you’re not real LatinOs because you don’t speak English with an accent” (something an acquaintance of mine has been repeatedly told [her mother tongue is Spanish]) I’m not Latine, maybe my input is unwelcome, but that’s where I’m at.

Only a very small minority of french people use "racisé". It is even much less popular and politically connoted than "latinx" is in the USA.

@@sacha9593 well maybe in your circle, but still, this is the only word that's viewed as appropriate to describe non-white people. Non-blanc exists but it's really not as prevalent. It's also the proper word used in sociology. Also, I didn't say "French people" but "in French". The francophonie is huge.

​@@drnanard9605 Just tell my father (who is born in the middle east and is now a french citizen) that he is "a racisé" and he will certainly not view this as an appropriate word. The only reason to use this word is to lure every one who is supposedly not white (or with another religion than christianity ?!) into one single category and conscript them in some sort of flawed ideological role. It is pretty racist now that I think about it. The problem with "colored" was not the word itself, but the concept: using another word for the same concept does not change much. "The francophonie is huge." I won't speak for Canada, who are under the influence of the english speaking world and like to use their own words (and burn books), but in other parts of the francophonie "racisé" is certainly not a thing in the society at large (outside of your "circle"). Especially not in Africa ! Like with "latinx" the goal is not to defend or respect anyone but to say "look at me, I am a progressive". The fact that "latinx" is not widely use by the people it describes, is hard to prononce and does not respect ordinary grammar rule is not a bug, it is a feature. If it was not the case nobody would notice (like when someone use the gender neutral "Latin American") so it would miss the real purpose. The fact that "racisé" is such a new, ugly and connoted word that goes against the french tabou on the word "race" for human is likewise a feature. Fun fact: both "latinx" and "racisé" are red words for my (french/english) spelling corrector.

​@@sacha9593 The problem here is that you think that "racisé" is a name. It's an adjective. It's derived from the verb "raciser" itself derived from the sociological concept of "racisation". The fact that you can name one example of someone who would find offense in the word (probably because he doesn't really understand its meaning and usage) is anecdotal evidence at best. Let's remember that some older black people find offense in the word "black", but that's not the norm. "Personne racisée" simply has no connotation whatsoever, it's a descriptive word that recognizes the social construct of race and the reality of white privilege. Being offended by "personne racisée" is like being offended by "personne subissant du racisme", it doesn't make much sense. Also, it's a word that was popularized and is still heavily used by POC. In fact, the only controversy surrounding the word has come from people who don't agree with the idea that racism is systemic, structural, mainly right-wingers. If you believe that race is a social construct, and that white people have privilege over POC, and that racism is a systemic problem, then you believe de facto in the concept known in French as "racisation", which has made its place even in mainstream media. Also, the word isn't even new. It was coined in the 70s. I would advise you start by reading this : fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racisation

I know the difference between a name and an adjective, that's not the point. "Also, it's a word that was popularized and is still heavily used by POC" Honestly we must not live in the same world. "Also, the word isn't even new. It was coined in the 70s." Someone use it in a book in the 70, but it is still a new word in the public debate. And you will note that the word was created by... a white person (surprisingly...). But you know what: I am probably biased. So I did a little test (not scientific but interesting) to check. - the first time "racisé" appear in some google searchs is 2012 (data start in 2004) - even against "personne de couleur" (which is not very common) "personne racisée" is very much rare. (This year : 96/4 in France, 85/15 in Canada. 100/0 in Belgium). - the word is not researched in Africa (but to be fair there is not enough data). - the word is (relatively) more popular in Canada (the same number of search, despite a smaller french speaking population) trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=racis%C3%A9e trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=personne%20racis%C3%A9e,personne%20de%20couleur Use it as much as you want, but don't fool yourself (and others) into thinking that it is a common word. (Once again it is red in my orthographic corrector.)

Messing it up? The colonizer’s language will be fine.

@@gayhomosexuallll You do realize that there are several gendered languages out there other than spanish, and not all of them have spread through colonialism, right? Also, just because the language came from colonizers, does it make it okay for english speakers - another language that came from colonizers - to do as they please with expressions in spanish or portuguese? Instead of coming to us for a better solution?

Do you like latine? If not, what do you prefer?

@@leporid257 Latin american in english, latine in spanish/portuguese

Thank you. My family is from Cuba & we find this ridiculous

I’ve never heard of the term Latine, but I love it! I’ve always used Latinx because that was the only nb term available, but Latine is one I’ll probably start using more often

Yes, thank you! Lo expresaste muy bien!

@@weirdwesteros1109 that's awesome! I love it as well. It's the gender neutral version of latin, you could say, for Spanish and Portuguese speakers. And it's practical, easy to pronounce and inclusive of all people :)

Hi! A friendly note from a fellow non-binary Latine, nb is actually short for non-Black while enby is the short form for non-binary 😊 I had someone correct me the other day on this.

@@skrappyshatzz I think it can be both depending on the conversation. Also offering “enby” as a universal term for non-binary people isn’t great because a lot of non-binary people hate it. It sounds/looks infantile. Also it’s literally just spelling out the pronunciation of NB

True!! I, for one, hate the word hispanic to refer to me, a peruvian, because a) not all Latin American countries were colonized by Spain, therefore not all of them speak Spanish, b) most of them have tons of native tongues that are not included in that term, c) even as a Spanish speaker, I don't like the term as it feels like we were an "extension" of the country that colonized us hundreds of years ago.

​@@micaelamessinar8241 If you're curious, my family is from Mexico, they don't like the connotations of being tied to the old Spanish Empire either, but to them "hispanic" seems to just mean "native Spanish speaker." But as you succinctly pointed out, Latin America is not a monolith, which is why the only way to make sure you get it right is to ask.

@@Mitchmeow yes, which is why I agree with you on "just ask them", that is the best thing to do in all cases, to be honest, not just this. And thanks for sharing your story, that gives me more insight on yljr comment!

@@micaelamessinar8241 how would you recommend phrasing this as a question? Would I say, "how do you culturally identify?"

@@GlitterRat hey, thanks for caring and asking! I would ask "how would you like your ethnicity to be addressed as?" or I'd just ask if they're ok with the term "latinx" being used to describe their ethnicity.

Siiii qué excelente!! Muchas gracias por expresarlo tan bien. Siempre odié eso del español. Sin mencionar que el inglés me parece un idioma mucho más sencillo, práctico, accesible y además "abierto", por así decirlo, ya que cierto sector, defensor de la RAE, tiene al idioma español como inmutable y ahí si que es difícil avanzar en algún cambio o progreso de este.

@@FaiaHalo el inglés y el español ambos tienen sus cosas buenas y sus cosas malas, y no diría que ninguno de los dos es mejor, o ni siquiera más sencillo. El español tiene veintemil conjugaciones y géneros para todos los sustantivos mientras que el inglés tiene el alfabeto menos fonético que ví en mi vida. Usually when I talk to friends and family I'll end up speaking in Spanglish, cause that's basically my native tongue lol

"not sayable in spanish" This is such an important point lol, and so revealing

Quite honestly, as a Mexican that has lived her entire life in Mexico, people saying there is something wrong with Spanish and that it needs to be changed is quite insulting. The way the language works is that words are genderized but they are not thought that way. For example, if I say "el pueblo" and "la población" both mean the same and people don't really consider one being masculine and the other femenine. I am fine with people using the suffix -e and their conjunctions if that's the natural change the language will face but people implying that there is something wrong with Spanish and thus trying to make it more like English is so wrong.

​@@Meri123fabulosa Obviously it's impossible to modify the whole language, but you have to admit, it's one of Spanish's biggest flaws. Todos los idiomas tienen fallas, y la generización de todos los sustantivos es una de las más grandes del español, en mi opinión, y está absolutamente ligada a la falta de género neutro y masculino-como-plural-genérico ("los chicos" = chicos y chicas, "las chicas" = solamente chicas) en nuestro idioma, que por suerte está cambiando. De la misma manera que la falla más grande del inglés es la no-foneticidad y no-estandarización de las pronunciaciones de las palabras. Every language has flaws, and they're not gonna change overnight but I'm glad there's an effort from within ("les chiques") to change that.

As a Spanish speaking anarchist, I agree!! Spanish pointlessly gender every and all words. Specially the ones meant to describe humans or refer to them. For example, in English I just call myself an engineer, while in Spanish you have "ingeniera" e "ingeniero", of course in the gender binary. So everything is binary-gendered.

@@micaelamessinar8241 I love the education utility too, it'll be much easier to learn that way, and apply it beyond comfortable vocabulary. Save the headaches for learning tenses lol

@@AnarchyIsLove yes!! I haven't considered that and you're spot-on. A lot of peoole I know that learned Spanish as a not their first language have told me about how difficult and complex it seems, and that would make things a lot easier, yes.

So, I’ve always wondered about this: I understand making Spanish words that refer to people gender-neutral, or including a gender-neutral option, but does this also carry over to every noun? I only took Spanish in high school, not very proficient, but I never really associated the masculine/feminine word forms with gender or sex, at least in the case of nouns where that was obviously irrelevant. I recall asking once in class if you’d call a girl dog a perra, and I don’t actually remember what the answer was! Would the words stay the same with their a/o endings and just the article becomes neutral? Or do all the words get adjusted to end with -e? Could the a/o forms be given a different terminology than masculine/feminine? You don’t have to answer any of this if you don’t want to, this thread just reminded me that I had this question filed away in my brain vaults lol. My very unwoke feeling is that it seems like the language would lose something of its poetry, I guess, if all the nouns ending in vowels were homogenized, but this could be a totally baseless line of assumption. I’d imagine there are lots of different perspectives from linguists and activists as well. Anyway, thanks for reading my comment if you did, have a good day!

@@RisingSunfish it’s been a long time since I was even conversational in Spanish, but afaicr the gendered form of non people related nouns just hit different. Take ‘vestido’ for instance. It’s a masculine noun, but it’s a feminine article of dress (literally, dress). So does it really matter that it’s gendered? I’d argue that it doesn’t really matter, and certainly not compared to the constant gendering of people. Maybe it will matter more one day, when the gendered people related nouns are gone, maybe it never will matter. A dress doesn’t care that it is gendered as a man. I care if I’m gendered as a man though. Does that make sense?

Referring specifically to latino or latina. I don't know how prevalent using "latino/latina" instead of "latin" is in the US because I am brazilian. But when latin americans look for a gender neutral term to identify themselves, we don't usually use the x termination because it's awkward in most romance languages which are spoken in Latin America

Though Hispanic won't work for *all* of Latam (not all of us speak Spanish), and Latin works but can get confused with the language. I personally like Latine, but Latin/Latin America does work as well.

Latin American is the correct term, not Latin. Latine includes all people. And not all people speak Spanish so hispanic is not accurate in the slightest, even for countries who do.

@@FaiaHalo Wouldn't that only apply to people living in America? A Guatemalan person living in Germany would be considered Latin.

@@Toastybees you're right. That might be best. Like T1J said, it's better to ask. And Latin, Latin American and latine are very inclusive terms. Hispanic not much, if it all.

I heard it came from a white professor & that the word latinx denies the Spanish language so idk 🤷🏾‍♀️

@@saigie3908 I’m curious what that professor taught because if they knew anything about language, they’d know language evolves constantly and the people who drive that evolution are the people who speak the language.

@@Comicaze247 Idk, I just said that I “heard” that a yt professor made it but idk what to believe cause it’s the internet. & yes, ik languages can evolve

@@saigie3908 I wasn’t saying you didn’t. Just talking about why what that professor said is dumb.

@@Comicaze247 oh okay, sorry

Wrong. The thing that makes it cringe is that it's a leftist term.

Can you explain ?

@@jaserader6107 It can be both.

That's why when ppl just mean 'white American' but just use 'American' I sometimes like to correct them by saying 'European American'. If someone uses 'African/Asian American' then using 'European American' would just make a lot of sense.

@@Tessa_Gryou're definitely right that privilege permeates language such that the privileged and/or the majority (often the same) are treated as default, with anyone else becoming the exception class. The only contexts in which I recall ever hearing "white American" would be either Eminem "White America" (him specifically targeting American white people with his commentary about the behavior of the subculture) or basketball (because the NBA is mostly black, then of the white guys they're pretty well split between European and American, and it's typically a relevant distinction because the path to the NBA can be very different, with Europeans often playing professionally overseas while the American kids are in college). It would natural for black people to refer to me as white or European people to refer to me as American, but the default in America would allow me to avoid being labeled, a privilege not extended to non-white people.

I've never had a problem with African-American. I'm an American whose ancestors at one point came from Africa - at least that's what the term always meant to me. Black is also fine, it's common and universally understood (even though that terminology has always been a bit of a head scratcher to me since my skin color is closer to the color of a stick of cinnamon than a piece of charcoal). But yeah, ultimately I feel like asking people what they prefer to be called is the safest bet.

I'm half black and half white and get confused. I call myself a brown girl, but Idk if that's a thing. Should be though haha. Race is weird because it's almost solely based on what you look like, but also is supposed to represent your ethnic background. Social constructs are silly like that

Actually, many Blacks are offended at being called African-American because our ancestors are not necessarily all from Africa (for ex. Vice-President Kamala Harris) and quite frankly, it's an historical myth that doesn't include others like West Indians, Moors who also arrived in Americas early on as well. Also, many Black people or People of Color have mixed ancestry and most can't even directly trace their Black ancestry to Africa. Also, it's confusing to people who really are from Africa or South Africans and settle into America. Lastly, if Blacks go to Africa, they don't even recognize them as African like themselves, lol. African-American is a term pushed on Blacks by politicians and media on the left to try and galvanize Blacks for political power but most do not care for it.

It should be noted though that a lot of these surveys are flawed given that the majority of communities they conducted them in are conservative/right-leaning. I know because I grew up in one, as a queer and non-binary person, and it was absolute hell. I find it not at all surprising that these survey findings say the majority are against language that includes trans, non-binary, and gender diverse people.

Quick question. I don't speak Spanish - is there much of a difference in pronunciation between "Latin" and "Latine"? Is there a difference in how it would be pronounced in English-speaking settings? (I've seen a few people object to "Latin" because it's supposedly going to confuse people who think of it as referring to the more ancient civilization, but I can't imagine that context wouldn't make it pretty clear which a person meant in a real conversation. Idk.)

@@thompsonfj1 we pronounce the E at the end of our words, so yes, there's a difference

Latinx was invented by illiterate gringexes on forums. You add gender by inflecting a word with a suffix. If you don't add the suffix then you have a gender neutral term IE Latin. Also X is a silent in Spanish. So, saying the x is like saying "lol" out loud instead of laughing.

@@thepermman Lol... Yeah kinda my point, as a Mexican when I see "Lantinx stories" on hulu I think what in the white people is this??? Also X does have a sound in spanish it's pronounced like an H in english... (for the most part). So Latinx is literally unpronounceable in spanish like Latinh...

​ @Halloween All Year Round If you mean you as in people in general, then ignore. If you mean you as in me then: ​ English is a language without genders. Rare barely-hanging-on exceptions exists like the word waitress. Trying to make Spanish words like English is the most imperialistic thing someone can do. Not only is it imperialistic and insensitive it doesn't even follow Spanish or English conventions. As an import word you wouldn't inflect it. And if you inflected it you would make it "an". IE People from California are called Californians. People from New Mexico are called New Mexicans. People from America are Americans and not Americanos in English. Latinos would be Latinians, Latinans, or Latin as an adjective/adverb: IE Latin People, Latin Americans, Latin Music, Latin America. Or you could just say Latinos. You also can't just blanket call a dissenting opinion transphobic. For something to be transphobic it has to advocate for harm to transgender people. When you do this you're like a Scientologist calling anyone who doesn't believe in the tenets of Scientology "Supressive Persons" or when people don't believe in Islam "Islamophobic" This is purely a critical discussion. It's a cop-out way to dismiss dissent. That is bigotry. I also don't pronounce the H in herbs. It's silent. H can be silent depending on your dialect. A British person might say "elp" instead of "help" H is usually a voiceless pharyngeal fricative. Most people I know say "Mexico" with a glottal stop or a voiceless pharyngeal fricative in Spanish. At the end of word an H sound is silent and voiceless because you don't utilize the glottis. Words in Spanish don't regularly end with an nx combination unless they are old timey classical Latin words like Phalanx or Sphinx. The database I consulted could only come up with a handful of words and they were all archaic/loanwords. Generally, X follows a vowel. So, it would be more correct to spell LatinX as Latinex. But that wouldn't inflect the non gender in Spanish except in imperialist anglophone created words. We also have to recognize that the gender system in Romance or general Indo-European languages is more about consonant-vowel flow than gender. Gender is more of a haphazard explanation for why the sounds are there than a fact. The patriarchy did not force this on us. The genders of many words are arbitrary and don't necessarily follow gender logic. Vestido is a dress for example. Not every typically feminine thing ends in an A or typically masculine thing ends in an O. Some plural words in German end with an E and match the feminine, but that doesn't make them feminine. Japanese has a similar vowel flow to Romance languages, but is completely unrelated. クレオ・ケ・ポー・エソー・ソイ You can transliterate Spanish to Katakana and use less characters for instance. Let's say I took the gender inflection out of German. "I eat good bread and drink wine from a red flask" is "Ich esse gutes Brot und trinke Wein aus einer roten Flasche" in German. It would change into "Ich Esse gut Brot und trinke Wein aus ein rot Flasch" And now you're left with almost English. It would probably change German from a level 3 (out of 4)difficulty language down to a 1. But it wouldn't be German anymore. It would be some constructed Frankenstein language. Considering how imperialistic English as a language is, it seems wrong to try to make other languages follow English rules. In the case of import words the people who created LatinX didn't think to use Latin, or at least follow regular indigenous English grammatical conventions. During the period LatinX was created X at the end of words was cool and trendy. I had so many friends with X in their screenname as both a prefix and a suffix. As in screen names like XposerX. That was their only logic. The failed clumsy foisting of the term Latinx was insensitive as it did not consult the broader Latin American community. It was promoted by corporation on flimsy authority with little research or regard. It's a cringey term for so many reasons. Considering the level of gullibility that exists now I could just make up a term and come with some colorful inclusive backstory on why we should use it and people would adopt it. But it would just be a bunch of bullshit. And the people who adopt it would be the same performative narcissistic attention seeking poseurs who use latinx. New words can be coined, and I might adopt them, but I'm tasked with thinking critically about them.

Exactly and maybe it's a generational thing, while I have no problem using Black, I will always use African American first. As far as connection to a country or continent I'm sure all those who call themselves Italian American and Irish American (maybe that happens more on the East Coast, Boston, NY, Philly) have all been to Italy and Ireland right?

Thanks for saying this!

Then you haven't been to much younger people spaces. All of my classmates at university used it. And now that I'm an university professor, all of my students use it. Most of the resistance I see to the term "latine" comes from older, conservative people. Soy de Perú, por cierto.

@@greatswordenthusiast2458 yo literalmente vivo en Perú jajaj no Estados Unidos. Además, hablo en particular del término latine, no latinx. Ese sí es muy usado en Estados Unidos.

In America there are many Canadians who are native french speakers like in Québec !

@@Megalosaure true, you right, I forgot that in Canada speak french too ^^

Praise be, as always!

do you speak spanish?

@@devonoknabo2582 si español originalmente y inglés práctico

Khadija Mbowe's recent video about racelessness has a compelling reason why: to reinforce thought that (1) race is a *symptom* of racism, rather than its cause (bc it isn't "real" outside of its socio-economic effects intra/interracially); and (2) that ethnic groups existed before racism and can once again be the main mode through which people view themselves because, as is often said, people within a race are not a monolith. The focus on ethnicity and culture and all the intersections a person can occupy by using the word "racialized" is a way of freeing oneself, even mentally, from a framework that doesn't even *really* serve those at the top, as it flattens their complexity and erases their roots as well. And hopefully, the more of us that do that, the more we as a society are able to see people for who they are, rather than dismiss them as sub-human stereotypes. Edit: also, thanks for teaching me a new word!

@@luciidity_ Wow, thanks so much for the excellent and nuanced answer! .. and for the reminder to watch Khadija's recent vid. :D

@@augustaseptemberova5664 no prob fam ;u; glad i could help! (pls do, it's really good!!)

Whites will still be the highest single percentage.

@@AmandaFromWisconsin agreed, but I was specifically refencing his statement about using the PoC term as a shorthand for non-white, and was curious whether he had opinions on what would happen as the broad nominal ethnic balance shifts.

how is indian better than native american?

@@nealeellis4455 I don't know, but as the term doesn't describe me, I'll take my cues from those I've talked to whom it does describe.

out of curiosity, what is the actual, non racist word to refer to an asian person in Spanish?? (I'm a asian who's studying the language rn)

@@pangiokuhli512 asiática (feminine ) asiático(masculine) Thank you for asking :)