Why I Never Became Eastern

  Рет қаралды 347,895

Brian Holdsworth

Brian Holdsworth

6 жыл бұрын

After I became convinced by the historic claims of Christianity concerning the person of Jesus, I started looking for a church to call my own and as I did, I quickly became confused by the disorienting variety of teachings and practices among different denominations and this forced me to confront questions about the divisions that exist within Christianity.
I started studying Church history and I quickly narrowed my focus to the division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Eastern Orthodoxy didn’t, at that time, register as a contender for one very simple reason.
I’m an English speaking white dude in a British commonwealth country.
There is a universality to Catholicism that doesn’t exist in the Eastern Orthodox churches. For me to become Eastern Orthodox, I’d have to join a Church with a very specifically ethnic or national identity.
When people ask me why I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I’m tempted to get into a theological throw down, but the easiest way to answer that is by pointing out that I’m not Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, or any other ethnicity that the Eastern churches in the city I live in serve.
A point of contention at all the major divisions in Christianity has been the focus on authority. So, the East West split focused on the authority of the Pope vs. other bishops and patriarchs. The protestant reformation was about the authority of the Church and the Pope vs. the exclusive authority of scripture, and the English reformation was about the authority of the Pope vs. the authority of the King. So, as you might guess, authority, how it’s defined, and where it resides, seems like a pretty essential component of the faith.
So in the case of the East West schism, there were a number of controversies that they were stuck on, but arguably, the most significant one was the disagreement over the authority of the bishop of Rome vs. that of the other patriarchs and bishops. Rome insisted that the bishop of Rome had a unique and universal authority over the entire Church, without which there would be no universal Church, as inherited from the authority of Peter. The Eastern Orthodox side was arguing that the bishop of Rome was a first among equals but only in an honorific way which meant that he had the same authority as the other patriarchs. So that was their position going into the controversy. OK, how true were they to their positions after the controversy had led to an actual division and schism? Well, the West still maintained the conviction that the bishop of Rome had a universal authority over the whole Church. But the East, did not continue to treat the Bishop of Rome as a first among equals. In fact, they excommunicated him which seems like a clear violation of their own claim that no autocephalous patriarch has authority over another. The honor of first among equals has since been designated to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
Jesus wanted his followers to be one as a sign of his divinity to the world. Between East and West, from what little I know of it’s history, I only have ever seen major attempts from the West to realize that unity. Through the councils of Lyon and Florence, the East’s bishops conceded Rome’s position on Papal Supremacy, the Filioque, and purgatory, but the unity that was struck fell apart when the Eastern delegates went home and succumbed to political pressure there.
Rome has always been the initiator of ecumenical dialogue, from what I’ve seen. It was at the first Vatican Council that the mutual excommunications of 1054 were lifted. It was the second Vatican council that made ecumenism a high priority for the Church moving forward which paved the way for the joint theological commission of East and West.
It was Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI who recited the Nicene Creed with Eastern patriarchs without the filioque. It was the bishop of Rome who first visited the East. It wasn’t until 1995 when the Patriarch of Constantinople finally visited Rome.
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Пікірлер: 5 200
@BrianHoldsworth
@BrianHoldsworth 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the comments. Many people have misunderstood the main arguments that I've offered in this video, so I've provided a follow up video with some clarification. Please watch that before commenting.
@neiloshodges2816
@neiloshodges2816 5 жыл бұрын
There is no ethnic requirement to be a member of the Orthodox Church.
@georgedakar9635
@georgedakar9635 4 жыл бұрын
I'm Arab and Orthodox.
@matheusmotta1132
@matheusmotta1132 5 жыл бұрын
Dude, the Eastern Orthodox didn't excommunicate the Pope. The Pope excommunicated the Orthodox and the Orthodox excommunicated the Pope back
@motchie
@motchie 6 жыл бұрын
Orthodox Church is universal. I'm Indonesian, and for me Orthodox Church is not ethnically centered.
@walterclements5460
@walterclements5460 4 жыл бұрын
Orthodox Christianity is for everyone. Not just Russians or Greeks. It doesn’t have to be about ethnicity
@George-we5yu
@George-we5yu 6 жыл бұрын
This is so wrong. Orthodoxy is for everyone, there are orthodox Chinese, Japanese​, Indian Pakastani, Columbia etc...
@Catalin207
@Catalin207 4 жыл бұрын
We do not discover God through a certain way of thinking, but through a certain way of life. This is Orthodoxy, a way of life.
@FunnyBlackHole
@FunnyBlackHole 6 жыл бұрын
You seem to misunderstand a lot abou the Orthodox Church
@robertgroover3316
@robertgroover3316 3 жыл бұрын
As a person who travels a lot for work, I've been to several orthodox churches, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, and Serbian. Not once have I had a negative experience from them. I have always felt welcomed there.
@austinfranz2563
@austinfranz2563 4 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry you had a poor experience within the orthodox church. I'm an American who is German ethnically. I go to a Greek orthodox cathedral and I've never been so accepted in any atmosphere like I am in this one. Orthodoxy is for everyone
@yuefei8711
@yuefei8711 5 жыл бұрын
I am so sorry to see such division, between the two churches in the comments. As long as we fight amongst ourselves, satan is winning. Let’s pray again so that our reunion may see the light.
@TheLadyPlantagenet
@TheLadyPlantagenet Жыл бұрын
I’m Romanian and orthodox and I am terribly sorry for what you went through with these ignorant parishoners. For this reason I go to an English-speaking Orthodox Church in London where’s there people of all nationalities and races. Praise the lord.
@NovelistVampireGirl
@NovelistVampireGirl 6 жыл бұрын
You're wrong on this one. You don't have to be Russian or Greek or any other specific cultural background to be an Orthodox Christian, I'm an English speaking, American born, mostly British by heritage, person, and yet I have never felt out of place in my parish because of that fact. The faith is universal, yes there is a cultural aspect to Orthodoxy perhaps to a greater extent than Catholicism. In the Orthodox church, not unlike in Catholicism you have regional bishops who take care of all parishioners within a certain country or region, AND the areas where that community moves and evangelizes. So it's not a matter of the Patriarch being universal, it's that the parish we are worshipping in and the community we are apart of was established by people who were under the authority of that patriarchate when they came over. Now, it could certainly be argued that it is time for Orthodox populations in certain western countries where the Church has a foothold, to establish their own diocese and I would be among the first to agree with that argument.
@lindat4294
@lindat4294 6 жыл бұрын
I'm a black American living in the American South who chose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. Yes, there are very ethnically oriented Orthodox parishes, but there is the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) that uses all English in its services. I attended an Antiochian parish that used all English. You can't make a decision based on a visit to one church. I know a monk in Scotland starting an Orthodox monastery there using English and read of a native Welsh Orthodox priest. There are many Orthodox parishes in Africa, and places like Guatemala. Don't judge a book by its cover. There's much more to Orthodox Christianity.
@vonschlief3809
@vonschlief3809 2 жыл бұрын
Keep in mind that Orthodoxy is still relatively new to the West and has been brought by Eastern European immigrants. Catholic Churches used to be more nationally based as well; in the US you had churches with congregations that were a majority demographic for many years - German, Italian, French etc and over time they mixed together. I think a similar thing will eventually happen to Orthodox churches. That be said Orthodoxy is and always was meant to be decentralized, as compared to the Catholic centralized structure
@danthumu2211
@danthumu2211 4 жыл бұрын
Am a Kenyan and all my life an orthodox... Orthodox is universal
@chriscollins2938
@chriscollins2938 5 жыл бұрын
I've been attending a Serbian Orthodox Church very friendly. Orthodox is for everyone.
@LovedbyJesus23
@LovedbyJesus23 2 жыл бұрын
I definitely understand what you’re saying in regards to ethnicity in the Orthodox Church. I’m African American, what church would I be able to attend? I love how Universal the Catholic Church is. All are welcomed💖 Thanks for sharing🥰
@heidipaulus3701
@heidipaulus3701 5 жыл бұрын
i am a swiss blond hair and I am getting baptised our day 27 before our Easter, they do russian and then english it is just beautiful
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