Why is China Dominating Ultra High Voltage DC?
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Can we use the afternoon sun in Perth to power the evening in Sydney? Imagine harnessing sunlight from thousands of kilometers away to power our cities at peak times. In today's video, we explore the groundbreaking energy technology that can do just that. Ultra High Voltage Direct Current, or UHVDC is reshaping how power is transmitted over vast distances. As countries globally seek efficient renewable energy solutions, China leads the charge in this technology, successfully employing UHVDC to link its hydro, solar and wind-rich western regions with densely populated eastern cities.
This success prompts a critical question: Why haven’t countries like the USA or Australia, with seemingly similar geographies, adopted UHVDC? Consider the potential-what if UHVDC could link Western Australia's abundant solar resources to the main Australian grid? This could allow Sydney at 5 PM to use solar power generated at 3 PM in Perth. Or in the USA it could be California’s 2PM sunshine powering New York’s 5PM, or transporting wind from the lightly populated mid west to the cities. The implications of such a capability are profound and could revolutionize energy use across time zones.
Why is UHVDC not more widespread? To answer this questions, we're going to examine how elevating from traditional HVDC to UHVDC allows longer distance and more efficient energy transmission. We'll also look into how much UHVDC has been installed in China, compare it with installations elsewhere, and discuss what future plans may hold. We'll dive into the technological specifics, understand its advantages, and confront the formidable challenges that have curtailed its broader adoption. Stay tuned as we explore why this transformative technology, while a game-changer in China, is still on the sidelines elsewhere.
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00:00 Intro
01:42 HVDC vs UHVDC
02:47 UHVDC links in China
04:05 Projects outside China
05:15 Why aren’t there many UHVDC outside of China?
07:09 Why is China leading with UHVDC?
07:35 Can we have UHVDC link in Australia?
08:56 Will we see UHVDC links crisscrossing the planet soon?
09:15 Outro
Sources:
For data, images & graphs
en.people.cn/n3/2018/0622/c900...
web.archive.org/web/201807300...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-h...
www.electricnet.com/doc/china...
www.mhi.ca/news-events/news/25
www.hitachienergy.com/uk-ie/e...
www.hitachienergy.com/uk-ie/e...
www.nsenergybusiness.com/proj....
www.nsenergybusiness.com/proj...
www.hitachienergy.com/in/en/a...
www.hitachienergy.com/uk-ie/e...
www.nsenergybusiness.com/proj...
www.diva-portal.org/smash/get...
Reports and Scientific Papers
publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu...
climate-laws.org/documents/14...
iea-etsap.org/E-TechDS/PDF/E1...
The Engineering with Rosie team is:
Rosemary Barnes: Presenter, producer, writer
Javi Diez: Editor / javierdiezsuarez
Fatini Nur: Research and production assistant / fatinin
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
Want to restore the planet's ecosystems and see your impact in monthly videos? The first 500 people to join Planet Wild with my code will get the first month for free at planetwild.com/engineeringwithrosie/powerlines If you want to get to know them better first, check out their latest video: Transforming the land under power lines into thriving ecosystems: planetwild.com/engineeringwithrosie/15
@shamancredible8632 2 ай бұрын
you endorse strangling western energy production while praising China's energy grid. Tell me you're a propagandist without telling me you're a propagandist. At the very least you believe none of the words you're saying. You can't be trusted.
@fellowcitizen Ай бұрын
Also: why do we still lack 600kph rail linking Brisbane-Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne and East-West?
@carkawalakhatulistiwa Ай бұрын
Soviet union can have 1 super big power grid. So why other country can't. Even small contry like jepang have 2 power grid
@carkawalakhatulistiwa Ай бұрын
5:09 Soviet have Unfinished megaproject Ekibastuz GRES-2 in 1985 1.115KV UHVDC. Unfinished because the country collapse
@tsamuel6224 Ай бұрын
Roughly about in 1980 they did the math and 1MV DC would have made sense in the USA if one line ran coast to coast with taps along the way. UHVDC is way more economically efficient and energy storage wasn't an option. Load time shifting and redundancy cost savings would have paid for it. We didn't get it because regulatory approval and getting public easements looked impossible. Getting public easements is very hard in USA. Try to imagine some sort of mercury vapor vacuum tube inverters because UHVDC switching transistors were not a thing yet, with no wind or solar planned in the mix, and you understand how long ago that was. It's made $$ sense a long time.
@nmew6926 Ай бұрын
Australia is more interested in $368 billion Submarines deal
@pjw3438 Ай бұрын
That's protection money paid to the Mafia.
@qiliu4667 Ай бұрын
@@pjw3438 Paid the number 1 super power to protect its trade line between number 2 super power. Actually no need to protect or no need to protect.
@MRT-co1sd Ай бұрын
800bn
@outdoor75 Ай бұрын
Australia govt just wants to find the next thing to privatise to get money for more election promises
@Maige2900 Ай бұрын
Haha well said mate
@marvinfok65 Ай бұрын
China had the most UHVDC, the most high-speed railway lines, the most EVs, the most 5G base stations in the world. Seems China is just ahead of everybody!
@Effervescent_Smegma Ай бұрын
They need massive amounts of infrastructure for the 1.4 Billion humans in it.
@zjarslipformpaver189 Ай бұрын
But China's GDP is still 60% US's, even though China used twice as much electricity as the US in 2023. Crazy fake GDP of the US
@davefroman4700 Ай бұрын
Amazing what happens when you graduate 10x the amount of STEM candidates than any other nation on earth.... Without debts..
@NyxNqx Ай бұрын
They don’t that good cause they military not dominant like USA the only they can is passively play in Asia and don’t have much impact cause if they gonna do anything USA can bring EU and JP&SouthKorea easily cause they case is on JP. The real problem is they don’t have “TRUTH” i mean nuclear force and 1st and 1st air force 1st army and…I mean the “TRUTH”.
@draker769 Ай бұрын
@@davefroman4700 more like what happen if you build not bomb
@audrey72537 2 ай бұрын
Just because China has central planning doesn't mean it doesn't send officials to discuss and consult with affected people what the purpose, impact, and compensation will be. My dad got a free flat in the city when they tore down his village home for development. It's like a company making a policy change. It still has to discuss and consult about the impacts with affected employees even though a company is "centrally planned". It's just a matter of degree. Otherwise, nice video.
@Nikoo033 2 ай бұрын
Mm… when they decided to tear down the hutongs of Beijing for the Olympic Games, there was not much of consultation going on. They just did it. easily found for anyone willing to look into. Just type in Google: hutongs destruction for Olympic Games China. You’ll bump into plenty of articles published in various countries about it. NY Times, for example: “Olympics Imperil Historic Beijing Neighborhood July 12, 2006” The Guardian: “Olympics blamed for forcible removal of 2m over 20 years” And many others.
@user-ed9so2rb4k 2 ай бұрын
@@Nikoo033 , so you were directly affected?
@Nikoo033 2 ай бұрын
@@user-ed9so2rb4k yes, along with 10 000s of people.
@Nikoo033 2 ай бұрын
@@user-ed9so2rb4k yes, along with 10000s of people.
@SlackersIndustry 2 ай бұрын
Well it was that or nothing
@user-oq7yk7zu9q Ай бұрын
As a Chinese I'm not sure if I'm right or not, as far as I know for example, most of the electric power companies in the US are divided by states and there are too many of them, so it's difficult for them to peak the power resources between different states, and the power equipments are aging.However, China's power system is completely deployed and peaked by the national power grid in general.This makes the entire country's power grid run very efficiently.
@alanwu5788 28 күн бұрын
50% correct😊
@boweihuang3246 Күн бұрын
@@alanwu5788 wHY JUST 50%
@dltn42 2 ай бұрын
Brazilian here :) Brazil has 90% of Electric Energy from Clean/Renewable most because the National Grid. Because our country is huge and ALWAYS is raining somewhere, so the National Grid guarantee that the Energy will always be available Nationwide, no matter the place is being generated. With the MASSIVE new investments in Wind and Solar, even in extremely drought Years, the System will be secured without the need to use of coal to fulfill the demand, and we are capable to export Energy from Colombia in the north to Argentina in the south.
@yudogcome5901 2 ай бұрын
In 2017, a Chinese company built a 2,000-kilometer ±800KV UHV transmission project for the Murray Hill Power Station in Brazil, and this year it will build another 1,300-kilometer line.
@davieb8216 Ай бұрын
Hydro power is easy mode. With 66% hydro power, I'm not sure why Brazil would use any fossil fuels.
@dexterdr.7020 Ай бұрын
@@davieb8216 climate is likely unpredictable in long run and energy security is important, countries have to be prepared for the most unlikely scenarios
@ww07ff Ай бұрын
Brazilian here too. And also depending on the UHVDC power capacity, it allows hydroelectric dams to work as kinect energy batteries (by reducing the water flow) when wind and solar are at full power in other connected states. Maybe China is also thinking about it. Even though the Chinese Three Gorges dam has 22,5 GW (installed capacity) and Brazilian Itaipu 14 GW, both annual production are relatively similar, due to rain variations in China.
@ww07ff Ай бұрын
@@davieb8216 Base load vs peak load, also depending on sharing capacities between different regions.
@888YangJi Ай бұрын
UHVDC is way more economically efficient than distributed small grid and energy storage for China. because China have 5time zones geographically.
@trueriver1950 Ай бұрын
Correction: China has one single time zone: the whole country uses Beijing time. If they insisted on 1200 local time being when the sun was overhead then yes, they'd need the five time zones they used to have.
@OTROHIJO Ай бұрын
@@trueriver1950 "geographically."
@user-lu4di7fm2k Ай бұрын
true
@888YangJi Ай бұрын
@@trueriver1950 I said geographically not in practice
@ongsengfook Ай бұрын
China doesn't need to satisfy 4-5 years election promises. It can focus on longer term needs.
@wutongtaiwa Ай бұрын
選舉承諾大部分不能完成，換屆以後一切歸零
@Aapig 28 күн бұрын
Most of these promises will not be fulfilled. This is true from advanced elections in Europe and the United States to Indian elections that tempt voters with rice
@gelinrefira 27 күн бұрын
It just needs to satisfy its people desire for prosperity, which is measurable and real. And the CPC has hit the ball out of the park.
@loungelizard836 2 ай бұрын
China dominating uhvdc, hsr, solar, ev, wind turbines, batteries, nuclear, reforesting, nuclear,...
@Berkeloid0 Ай бұрын
That's what happens when you have people with engineering backgrounds running your country
@BBP_BKK Ай бұрын
@@Berkeloid0 Exactly!! As an engineer working in the grid SO, those politicians are PITA.
@planb1635 Ай бұрын
They want to be self sufficient in energy before attacking taiwan.
@Anton-tf9iw Ай бұрын
& CO2, CH4, water and ground pollution, slave labor, non separation of trias politica, personal tracking, social credits, net zero freedom of speech etc.
@bmthai3718 Ай бұрын
@@Anton-tf9iw Who would use slave labor nowadays? Everything is done by machines/robots.
@Decarbonize11 2 ай бұрын
In the US we don't just not have UHVDC, we have barely any HVDC. And, unlike Australia, we have our renewable resources located far from our population centers. The problem is the way we manage our grid makes it nearly impossible to build tranmission lines that cross regions. I'm working on a series of videos on that topic for my channel. kzfaq.info/sun/PLg6cLUnYMLDNhBWCglJKWrFOZmV90T5IH
@user-xq1wz3tp5z Ай бұрын
And to think U.S. first developed HVDC in 1960s....
@laus9953 Ай бұрын
US doesn't even have a common grid
@johnsmith1953x Ай бұрын
*"Why is China Dominating Ultra High Voltage DC?"* Because RAIL GUNS. China has them working, and ooh boy! do they have ALOT of them. Unstoppable, tungsten telephone pole-size projectiles at ANYWHERE on Earth or the Moon.
@wardsellars8805 2 ай бұрын
Canada has native UHVDC installations to send large amounts of power from the Nelson River at Hudson bay to Chicago, over 2000KM
@youtube7076 2 ай бұрын
0:38 "consider the potential" lol
@davidbrayshaw3529 2 ай бұрын
I laughed when she said "currently".
@danapeck5382 Ай бұрын
Thanks! New subscriber, really like and appreciate your content. All the best. I live at the northern end of the US BPA DC intertie, built in the late1950s-early 1960s. Amazing they weren't deployed everywhere. All the best
@greenfrog8871 2 ай бұрын
3:07 'with little existing transmission infrastructure in place' explains the gap between China and everyone else. They started late and could 'jump' to the latest tech. Same thing happened with cell phones in Africa, they skipped the whole land line thing.
@ericbabich 2 ай бұрын
They also make… everything
@shamancredible8632 2 ай бұрын
@@ericbabich I'd rather cheap junk be made locally. But the government knows best so they sold us out to china.
@emila6 2 ай бұрын
China developed powerlines and basic infrastructure after the 1960s. Due to modern tech, Africa had many local-level innovations. For example, the Facebook marketplace was an idea taken from how Africans developed e-commerce. The truth is that the Chinese have the industrial capacity for scale and don't have the bureaucratic inefficiency of six guys being paid to produce tangible components in cost-inefficient ways.
@ex0duzz 2 ай бұрын
Err, China has land lines too and power cables and power poles too etc.
@eugenec7130 2 ай бұрын
China has stopped buying most technology from other countries. China has its own technology. Africa still buys cell phones made by China.
@davidbrayshaw3529 2 ай бұрын
Why haven't I found this channel before! Subbed/liked.
@emila6 2 ай бұрын
I love this video. Subscribed!
@aiart3453 Ай бұрын
Hey Rosie! You are awesome, thanks for the amazing video!
@kondeamani5106 2 ай бұрын
This would actually make sense in Africa.. 1) Congo could build the 40GW grand inga dam. Too much power for DRC but the same is needed elsewhere in Africa. 2) alot of solar potential in the sahara-sahel region but low population density, most of africas population is along the Mediterranean coast up north, the Atlantic coast along the southern west Africa and in the east and South. That means a UHVDC super highly crossing Africa north to south, east to west accompanied by railway and road could be a huge economic stimulus and link. It will automatically avoid the issues of synchronization of the many small regional and country specific grids. Just hook up to the power super highway and your energy needs are taken care of.
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
Yes definitely. Plus China is investing a lot in Africa for minerals resources etc so seems likely they could repeat the model of what they did in Brazil.
@Lewis_Standing Ай бұрын
High risk investment in the Congo and relying on Africa power markets and customer's to pay for that.
@ww07ff Ай бұрын
This is a very interesting project! Cheers from Brazil!
@raylee5030 Ай бұрын
Congo has completed ONLY 1.8GW in 2023? 40 GW maybe decades away. Congo does not have $80 billions to complete the entire project.
@kondeamani5106 Ай бұрын
@@raylee5030 yes off course, what's stopping the project is the business case, of the power could be evacuated and the demand is there getting financing becomes possible. Just throwing then thought out.
@biabtwo 2 ай бұрын
Kiwis have used HVDC since the 1960's as well.
@kiwitrainguy Ай бұрын
Yep, since 1965.
@zen1647 Ай бұрын
Excellent video. I liked it once, and then tried to like it two more times after that. Awesome!
@bumpkinfishman1196 Ай бұрын
I like this type of reporting. Unbiased technology and informative
@SocialDownclimber 2 ай бұрын
I'd be very interested in the UHVDC transmission reliability. The NSW-VIC interconnector seems to fall over every time there is high demand in the NSW grid.
@laus9953 Ай бұрын
@Nimble-Auwhere can I find more info on such complex issues (solar flare influence, residual currents, flow issues)?
@mrbizi5652 Ай бұрын
Thanks for covering grid batteries Rosie! I would also put into the mix whole house / distributed batteries. They would have similar affect but also ensure each house’s electronics get a smooth power load and potentially lead to fewer household appliance failures over time due to grid fluctuations
@FredPilcher 2 ай бұрын
Good info - thanks.
@icekk007 Ай бұрын
My understanding of UHVDC not deployed in the US has to do with interstate rights. US has 6 grid regions. Within each of these regions are interconnected local electricity grids, but not across regions. UHVDC is only useful in the US for connections between grid regions.
@kellymoses8566 Ай бұрын
No. The US has 3 fully connected grids. East, West, and Texas.
@mikemellor759 2 ай бұрын
I love the clarity of your analysis + all the information you pack in - thank you 👏👏
@TRAVELYIP Ай бұрын
How you make those batteries in Australia?
@KenH-63 Ай бұрын
The xlinks project for an HVDC link from Morocco to UK which you mention in an earlier video is going for 500kv. If UHVDC is better is the issue cost? Or is it that the proposed solar and wind in Morroco is not big enough to justify a higher capacity cable?
@Istandby666 2 ай бұрын
I love watching you. When you speak, you enunciate each word. I don't need closed captions with you, I can read your lips.
@outdoor75 Ай бұрын
I agree Rosie speaks sooo clearly, probably the best on YT
@trueriver1950 Ай бұрын
Yeah! I kind of noticed that back when she was making videos in Denmark, but in a subconscious level. You're right tho: having some age related hearing loss and unawarely using lip reading to supplement hearing it's one of the reasons she is so easy to follow. If my brain doesn't work so hard figuring out the words, it has more capacity for understanding their meaning. I've been watching this channel since Dave (Just Have A Think) recommended a video, and subbed immediately I got half way through the first one.
@markellse 2 ай бұрын
Excellent content. In your earlier videos you did speak very quickly. More recent ones like these are much better for being a fraction slower - and even a slower would still help. But they are much appreciated. Thank you.
@murraymadness4674 Ай бұрын
I have to turn the speed down to 75%, otherwise it goes on pretty monotone too fast. Great content though. Rosie could use more inflection
@eugenhuber3441 2 ай бұрын
i take my question back. at 4:57 you show the Brasil UHVDC line which show 6 wires spreaded out with a star for one line. Is the other side the line back or do they use earth as common GND and is is basically another UHVDC line. By the way on other big low voltage DC systems the Cathodic corrosion protection of big steel installation (i.e. pipeline) can be affected.
@douglasengle2704 2 ай бұрын
The Brazil Amazon basin hydro power is only seasonal power delivery because of low water impoundment and low height. There is a lot of concern this well know situation will be leveraged to hugely increase reservoir size in the future to create water reserves for year round demand electric power flooding many times the current size.
@5th_decile 2 ай бұрын
7:40 For the Changji-Guquan UHVDC project (12 GW capacity, 3324km) the cost was reportedly around USD 5,9 billion or USD 1,8 million per km (but for 12 GW in stead of just 2 GW), so this video must be missing some important factors to get a full picture (scale advantages when you increase the capacity of the cable?)
@davieb8216 2 ай бұрын
I think you nailed it, scale there, land rights here, workers rights here all make a big cost difference
@fannyalbi9040 Ай бұрын
China don't look at the accounting figure alone, but all expect of economic scales
@johnsullivan8673 Ай бұрын
@@davieb8216 Worker’s rights? Lol. That’s not really a factor in this. Wage? A little. Rights? No.
@davieb8216 Ай бұрын
@@johnsullivan8673 you got me, there are no workers rights in Australia, no unions, no ability to form unions, to award wages, no rights to disconnect. No banning of materials to protect workers. You got me, no workers rights.
@davieb8216 Ай бұрын
@@johnsullivan8673 we are no Scandinavian country, but our labour rights here are much better than China. China isn't communist, it's state capitalist that doesn't like billionaires.
@nielsdaemen Ай бұрын
In Europe there are tons of underwater HVDC lines connecting countries. Germany is currently building an underground one connecting the north to the South
@Naikomi95 Ай бұрын
Which is gas isolated, so way better then the Chinese version.
@nielsdaemen Ай бұрын
@@Naikomi95 Why is gas isolated better than polymer isolated?
@Naikomi95 Ай бұрын
@@nielsdaemen because of physics?
@zpetar 2 ай бұрын
US is all about profit and pleasing shareholders. This is why for example Boeing is failing so hard these days. Short term gains became much more important than larger picture.
@Lewis_Standing Ай бұрын
Do you think this would be useful for the Xlinks project of power from Morocco to the UK? If its a 3.6GW HVDC Cable over 4800 kms, how many TWhs a year less would be lost if it was UHVDC instead?
@nigels.6051 Ай бұрын
It would be more expensive. If you spent the extra money on extra wind turbines instead, would you end up with more power at the destination, or less power? It is zero CO2 energy, so wasting some does not matter, it is how much that can be used at the destination that matters, and it may be greener as well as cheaper to build extra turbines than to make and install all the extra cable insulation. The difference to China is that nearly all the cable will be subsea, which will be a lot more expensive.
@user-lu8vq2qd9c 24 күн бұрын
China: lets build our country America: lets take over somebody elses country
@8spores 2 ай бұрын
Very important tech. Way to go China !
@antonnym214 Ай бұрын
I just found your channel and subscribed. You are very good on camera and with a gift for explanation and presentation. Hyper interesting subject. All good wishes.
@13699111 Ай бұрын
Excellent thank you
@patrickz6827 Ай бұрын
What about Basslink? And planed Basslink 2 - Marinus connecting Tasmania to VIC Australia?
@JoelReid 2 ай бұрын
I am surprised you did not list the project in North West Australia to supply solar power to Singapore. it has been held up by supply of cables.
@blackknight4996 2 ай бұрын
This fantasy project has been proven a scam long ago...Why even mention?
@fauzirahman3285 2 ай бұрын
I feel UHVDC would be beneficial in Australia by linking the grids around Perth, Karatha and Darwin with the grid in the South and Eastern states of Australia. This paired together with solar farms in the tropical north and in Western Australia could meet the demand of the eastern states in the evening. It seems a lot more viable compared to the plan where Singapore buys solar power production in the NT which would involve an even longer UHVDC link of around 3000 - 4000 KM.
@iqbang9236 Ай бұрын
Who is going to use that power? With a small population that almost has no manufacturing industry?
@tedwong7037 Ай бұрын
Nice plan, but you have to spend the money on nuclear submarine, so..... use less ac?
@fauzirahman3285 Ай бұрын
yeah sadly
@fauzirahman3285 Ай бұрын
@@iqbang9236 more to help the eastern states during the afternoon peak when people get home from work.
@zollen123 Ай бұрын
Is it possible to have underground UHVDC power network?
@robintaillandier4479 Ай бұрын
Interesting video, thanks Rosie! I heard about going in the opposite direction (MVDC maybe?) as an interesting way of carrying power back to shore from offshore wind farms but I know very little about this. I would welcome a video about it if that's a subject you are interested about (unless you already have one?) :)
@iandavies4853 Ай бұрын
Also low frequency AC for off-shore wind.
@mikeklein4949 2 ай бұрын
Western Canada can learn from this Rosie. Thank you.
@momokui 2 ай бұрын
LOL! They have no money and good plan management. Just for example in Vancouver right now they are building a new 4 lanes bridge to replace an old bridge that also has 4 lanes
@quinnyu6536 2 ай бұрын
It's better to build more hydro plant in the north like Quebec already done.
@clintthomas1854 2 ай бұрын
I really enjoyed this presentation. I was concerned you were going to ignore the cost and environment. It took the second half of the video to see the negatives. 🙂
@enochthebrewer 2 ай бұрын
$2m per km and a bit for substations at either end. Where do I sign. At that scale you would need N-1 (two lines). Likely multi-terminal to pickup generation along the way etc. Each substation/converter >$200m? Easily more than double the estimate. Still valid as a thought exercise though.
@WolfgangFeist 2 ай бұрын
Well researched and a critical assessment. This is what we need for sensible decisions.
@tristanbulluss9386 2 ай бұрын
I have a picture of a ghost on a tv.
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
Bad researched. There's no any compare to HVDC, phase shift HVAC, hydro pumps and the others. Just comparison of two very rare techs
@Kosmonooit 2 ай бұрын
Most of your pics and illustrations are 3 phase lines
@douglasengle2704 2 ай бұрын
It was as if somebody was just talking vague fantasies not respecting their audience.
@icekk007 Ай бұрын
I am not sure grid battery storage and UHVDC are entirely competing technology. Your example is for load shifting. What about a prolonged period of cloudy days with no wind in New South Wales, your grid battery would have run out, but UHVDC would still function. It is highly unlikely that it is cloudy in both Western Australia and New South Wales for a prolonged period. They are not one-to-one substitute.
@user-xq1wz3tp5z Ай бұрын
Both northern U.S. and Europe experience week(s) long lulls of wind during winter; the summer 'heat domes' of high pressure are low wind events, too. So the need for storage for a month is real. Hydrogen/ammonia made from wind/solar may be the solution, although electrolysis is expensive/inefficient.
@laus9953 Ай бұрын
@@user-xq1wz3tp5zI don't get why everyone worries about poor electrolysis efficiency, while people are getting paid to BURN electricity during those regular overproduction peaks
@bartoszskowronski Ай бұрын
i have a question. If you build an electric grid today from scratch, would you use AC or DC, How do today's dc-dc converters compare with transformers on short/medium distances? solar/wind produce DC directly (wind through converting unstable AC to DC anyway {and then again conversion DC-AC). (in dc reactive power didn't exist, 95% can run on DC or already run on dc. Like all electronics, variable speed/torque drivers for AC motors, light bulbs)
@PaulRispens 2 ай бұрын
Bedankt!
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@thebeautifulones5436 2 ай бұрын
They can’t go much higher than 1MV. It is not known why the air ionises at this voltage when according to known physics it shouldn’t. There is suggestion of cosmic radiation causing the breakdown. This problem was identified in the Soviet Union. Anyway it would be better to connect Eastern Australia to New Zealand than WA. It is a shorter distance and they have a bigger capacity, a lot of which is Hydro. It would get much more use. It would have. Been a 1/3 the cost of the snowy pump storage.
@punditgi 2 ай бұрын
Tell it like it is, Rosie!
@Anton-tf9iw Ай бұрын
Right, a rosy picture of the advantages of subsidized wind power....
@Travlinmo 2 ай бұрын
What an excellent breakdown of this. Thanks. I think I am still a believer in the potential in a place like the U.S.. I would like to see the idea of west coast to east coast with a Terawatt of offshore wind assumed on both coasts. Saying that, I know get new transmission across a couple states is taking 10 years for approval today… so cross country feels impossible.
@rickrys2729 2 ай бұрын
Great comparison of UHVDC to local battery storage. Here in the US we could benefit greatly by connecting our 2 main grids and our 3 minor grids and maybe some UHVDC or HVDC could play a role as we need more transmission for our growing wind and solar.
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
HVDC can connect all powerful sources and slightly increase the efficiency. Batteries is the only local decision.
@Titos301 2 ай бұрын
awesome explanation Rosie greetings from Crete,Greece🥰
@michaelpapadopoulos6054 2 ай бұрын
you guys are about to get a bunch of your very own hvdc lines soon!
@BeardLAD 2 ай бұрын
A moment of silence for all the bugs who died getting zapped to bring us this information
@bazoo513 2 ай бұрын
Isn't there a plan (or at east a proposal) for UHVDC underwater line connecting combined solar and wind installation in Morocco with the UK?
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
That plan prefer +/-525 kv lines
@mickwolf1077 2 ай бұрын
for ac or dc the current decreases with a higher voltage for a given wattage. If uhvdc suffers less loss in transport then its more efficient to use for other dc applications rather than converting dc-ac-dc
@davidliddelow5704 2 ай бұрын
There would be losses in the actual AC to DC to AC conversion too. I want to know how they do that and how it compares to regular old transformers.
@jimurrata6785 2 ай бұрын
Doesn't have to be ANY different. Hell if you have enough renewables you could cool to superconductor efficiency's and still transmit more power than conventional HV
@jimgraham6722 2 ай бұрын
They use solid state thyristor switching to do the DC to AC conversion and vice versa. These days the technology is well sorted and these devices can handle very high power. It is related to similar technology used to get solar power and wind power (DC) converted to AC and onto the AC grid.
@jimurrata6785 2 ай бұрын
@@jimgraham6722 it sure was revolutionary when IGBT became commonplace!
@davidliddelow5704 2 ай бұрын
I’m more interested in the actual efficiency numbers of the converters vs transformers because transformers can be very good, as high as 99%. With Switching regulators its more like 80-90%. These days its more likely to be IGBTs rather than thyristors. But theres no getting around the internal resistance of silicon.
@jimurrata6785 2 ай бұрын
@@davidliddelow5704 IGBT have very low power dissipation (especially when compared to thyristors!) You seem to know something about this. Don't play stupid, when you well know how much power a transformer consumes as heat when the windings get saturated
@tkh2944 2 ай бұрын
UHVDC only found in BRICS countries & not in G7 ones ? BRICS is more dynamically innovative and advancing in technologies whereas G7 remains stagnant.😮
@Dqtube Ай бұрын
The point is that the G7 countries had electricity coverage for 99.9% of the population before BRICS even existed. So there's no reason to spend billions on parallel UHVDC when the savings from 1-2% higher efficiency won't even pay back the investment in 50 years. Creating this parallel structure would only lead to higher grid maintenance costs and higher prices for customers.
@user-xq1wz3tp5z Ай бұрын
When I was a young kid, stagnation was in developing countries; now BRICS (particularly China) make U.S.A. look backward & neglected.
@016.kazinakibafjal2 Ай бұрын
@@Dqtubeno need to improve just because it's a small one? That's how you lag behind. Slowly those small changes add up to large ones.
@Dqtube Ай бұрын
@@016.kazinakibafjal2 What improvement or change ? China is building these lines where there were no high voltage lines. So it's not an improvement, it's a complete new development. So it makes sense for them because then they don't have to maintain the older lines because they don't have them. In most of the G7 countries, there are only a few tens to hundreds of kilometres between the electricity source and the customers, not thousands like in China. So there is no savings or efficiency gains at all over these shorter distances. Just wasted resources that could be used elsewhere.
@laus9953 Ай бұрын
bit by bit, BRICS are overtaking the former "first world" countries. welcome to the age of aquarius, the western heydays are soon over !
@klaudio2803 Ай бұрын
2:36 A benefit of a lot of current is that it allows for the use of cables of smaller diameter? I am confused. I was convinced it was just the opposite. You step up the voltage to lower your current, because the higher the current the higher the thermal effect on the cables.
@nigels.6051 Ай бұрын
You misheard, she says "a lower current", not "a lot of current", so is correct.
@warren567 Ай бұрын
The main reason is that these countries have been deindustrializing in the past and do not need so much electricity. China is the world's factory, so it needs a lot of electricity.
@alexjohnward 2 ай бұрын
a cable lasts a lot longer than a rechargeable battery.
@Decarbonize11 2 ай бұрын
Yes, but it's also much faster and easier to build a battery. Getting permission to cross a thousand km of land alone is a big challenge.
@paulsmyers203 2 ай бұрын
But still requires maintenance. Not just the physical hardware, but the land around it. It's important to keep growth off the towers and away from the lines. Spanning thousands of kilometers means a lot of ground to monitor and maintain. Further, the maintenance of the actual equipment requires highly skilled workers and often times helicopters. Whereas batteries in boxes on the ground take up a lot less space, and all the work can be done while standing firmly on Earth.
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
@@paulsmyers203 and a battery replacement and recycling factory )) It's not long life vanadium batteries, but lithium with average lifetime about 7 years. Oops.
@hitreset0291 2 ай бұрын
@@MihailG5541 why a 7 years lifespan? Why not 6 years? Or 8 years? Are you sure?
@jxmai7687 2 ай бұрын
Where you have the battery may not have the space for the solar panels or enough extra power to charge up the battery.
@paulkaakee4051 2 ай бұрын
Ya right cutting edge, check into Manitoba mid 70`s
@rogerterry5013 2 ай бұрын
I think the link Norway to UK is UHVDC
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
No it's 515kV
@123Goldhunter11 Ай бұрын
China doesn't waste all their money on Forever Wars.
@peanutbutterjellyjam2179 Ай бұрын
Pardon my political statement, but China doesn't use the people's money for weapons, rather, China uses the people's money to develop infrastructure, and to better the people's lives.
@chopinmack5418 Ай бұрын
China is working on One Belt One Road , on Trades & Infrastructure projects . The US is working on One Bomb One Road , on Wars & Bad Mouthing China .
@michaelandrews4783 Ай бұрын
So who pays for Chinas army?
@peteregan3862 Ай бұрын
China has done gigantic engineering works for many centuries. The need for engineers to manage large enterprises for rails, canals, water supply, electricity, etc, meant that these managers ended up senior leadership positions in the polit bureau - all but one was an engineer at one point. Land use and utilities to serve land use is the bread and butter of development. China is catching up with the west before it's population ages.
@ms-jl6dl Ай бұрын
😂
@stephenbrickwood1602 Ай бұрын
Your dreaming, same as their friend for life Russia. Vietnamese don't think much of China's weapons.
@Realciderreviews Ай бұрын
I’d like to see wa connected to the nem maybe with ac line so more generation sources can be added along the way
@thewatersavior 2 ай бұрын
Do they run fiberoptics along side HVDC \ UHVDC? Would be an interesting telecom partnership to solve rural internet
@MrDschubba 2 ай бұрын
I think Elon has solved rural internet. Certainly in nz with a $80/month plan for a non prioritized service which seems to work fine. There are rural internet systems here setup with large govt subsidies that have no customers.
@philsmith7830 2 ай бұрын
I was wondering if it would work both ways in Australia. So when Western Australia wakes up could the east provide solar power to help the Western Australia grid with their breakfast needs?
@inothome 2 ай бұрын
Some HVDC is bi-directional, depending on location and application.
@holgernarrog 2 ай бұрын
There is no one in Western Australia to use this electricity. Why not skipping the green nonsense of "climate change" and make use of the huge coal reserves?
@davidg5898 2 ай бұрын
I don't believe it's necessary. Western Australia can power itself just fine because it has higher wind generation capacity (better winds) and lower population. Meanwhile, most of Australia's population is within 600km of the east coast, and west-to-east transmission would relieve the later hours of peak electricity usage (2PM - 8PM).
@gregorymalchuk272 2 ай бұрын
@@holgernarrogUHVDC could enable us to power the whole country off of low cost Victorian lignite.
@holgernarrog Ай бұрын
@@gregorymalchuk272 A great opportunity if the green religion would not keep you from doing it. By the way Germany is in a similar situation but HVDC and 400KV AC is mostly sufficient due to the size of the country with the potential to cover perhaps 30 - 40% of the load.
@jensschroder8214 2 ай бұрын
Up to 380kV AC, the air can be used as an insulator between the cables on the masts. This is also possible up to 650kV DC. Insulated cables must be used above this. However, insulated cables are more heavy to hang on poles. The higher the voltage, the greater the distance that must be kept from the power line. This is difficult to comply with in densely populated areas.
@inothome 2 ай бұрын
Where did you hear that? That's totally not true, they do not use insulated cables on UHV AC or DC. The arms and insulators are just longer. In fact, that's how you can tell what voltage a HV transmission line is, the length of the insulators. I work in transmission substations, it's all bare conductor from tower to tower.
@jeremybarker7577 2 ай бұрын
That's nonsense. Many countries operate 400kV and 500kV AC systems and in some places 765kV AC is used. In the past there was a line operating at 1150kV. None of them have insulated cables and neither do the 800kV DC lines in China.
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
Phase shift HVAC use the same insulation as usual HVAC, but it can get through x1,5 currents
@shaun2072 2 ай бұрын
So what are the environmental impacts from moving to UHV from HV? Also curious about the semiconductor tech that allows UHV commutation and rectification.
@MihailG5541 Ай бұрын
UHVDC don't decrease bee's orientation and learning skills too much as HVAC and UHVAC
@davefilicicchia6341 Ай бұрын
I didn't realize HVDC and UHVDC was even in place in multiple countries. Also like your fresh new look.
@agusedyanto3324 Ай бұрын
No... hvdc/uhvdc only a few countries have it, even uhvdc only china is able to build it commercially
@manyinterests100 2 ай бұрын
Plain 'ol last generation power lines are pretty efficient as it is, even on a coast-to-coast US basis. It sounds like UHVDC would be a field-service nightmare, even if a 2500 miles right-of-way could ever be achieved in America. The real problem is that local go aheads have been obtained for numerous utility scale solar projects all over rural America, but they can't get hooked into even regional grids by any kind of power lines at all. The projects essentially die on the vine.
@jimgraham6722 2 ай бұрын
It's a question.of efficiency and containing losses, as well as reducing the need for syncing. Beyond about 800 km on a transcontinental link DC pays for itself.
@nigels.6051 2 ай бұрын
What is the actual difference between HVDC and UHVDC? Is it that the lines are insulated? But then our subsea HDVC lines are insulated. Can't just be the voltage, must be some physical difference...
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
The functional difference is the higher voltage, but then there's a bunch of technical challenges that get harder with higher voltage so yes you need better insulation amongst other things.
@inothome 2 ай бұрын
Terminology, depending on what standards organization you want to follow HV is generally lower than 300kV, then 300kV to 760kV would be EHV (extra high voltage) and UHV is over 760kV. But most people just call any EHV line an HV line and not until UHV do they call it out. And yes, of course as voltage goes up so do the insulation, switching, fault interruption etc... requirements and technology to handle the higher voltages. For overhead, the insulators get longer and distance to structures and between phases increases, but still bare conductors. For underground, usually more insulation around the conductor and a physically larger overall cable. Better termination systems and more skill to install said terminations.
@eugenec7130 2 ай бұрын
Very informative video, but it's a pity that the video does not elaborate on how the UHVDC works. We are used to AC power transmission, which uses transformers to step up the AC voltage and step down AC current before sending it to transmission lines, and to step down the AC voltage and step up AC current before sending it to users. What do they use to step up or down the DC voltages in a UHVDC transmission?
@EngineeringwithRosie 2 ай бұрын
There's way more technical detail on the previous HVDC video. maybe not everything you're looking for but if you list the questions you have that remain unanswered I can try to cover them next time I'm talking HVDC.
@frank7911 Ай бұрын
you step it up using AC transformers, then convert it to DC using a thyristor AC-DC converter. same as your phone charger, but scaled up
@dennismurray703 Ай бұрын
Another great video Rosie. I have seen a worrying article about possible blackouts due to diminished coal baseload supply here in Australia. Of course the govt response is to ensure gas supplied power is available. So I hope that our federal government is investing heavily in large battery storage as for renewable power to be available reliably and at an acceptable cost they are certainly going to be needed and pretty soon I imagine.
@willm5814 2 ай бұрын
The US has been too busy fighting wars in the past 30 years - this is their favourite pastime and the reason they have had no money to spend on infrastructure - note that China has not been fighting wars all over the world in the past 30 years - they are now threatening their first altercation in a looong time - with Taiwan - the US is excited to get involved in this to justify thier massive military budget/satisfy the needs of the huge military industrial complex they have created.
@btgan3838 Ай бұрын
George Galloway (UK MP, and the Leader of The Workers Party of Britain): Taiwan Untangled. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qLyJh9iYq7_TnKc.html 2024.05.19 (21:13) (CGTN) 😊
@BobQuigley 2 ай бұрын
Decades ago Chinese leaders recognized education was key to long term success. Unlike so many western nations China hired the best and brightest engineers, designers, physicist, etc etc etc from around the world. They were not fearful of change. They had no where to go but up. They then setup a brutal meritocracy system of education. Their bets paid off. Their capitalist economy is extremely competitive. To be a political leader you must be highly educated. Sure China has plenty of problems. Governing 1.4 billion citizens is difficult to imagine. Lastly for every $1 billion US spent on military China spent $100 million. They haven't been involved in a war since 1979.
@hwdex1472 Ай бұрын
"to be political leader you must be highly educated" you mean graduated from primary school?
@ww07ff Ай бұрын
@@hwdex1472Most of the Chinese politicians are engineers.
@bryanshoemaker6120 Ай бұрын
And yet Chinese education is failing. Chinese kids can only regurgitate information. They can't think or comprehend things on their own.
@Lots-tj9yw Ай бұрын
This guy drinks the kool-aid, the only thing Chinese leaders are good at is kissing Xi Jinping's ass because anyone who doesn't gets booted out.
@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane Ай бұрын
@@hwdex1472 No, they're all engineers. You'd know that if you had graduated from primary school.
@paulwatson6013 2 ай бұрын
Did see some stuff on running a DC subsea from Morrocco to UK. Really not sure why there is this push to play around with Li Ion battery banks at grid scale. In Aust alone, there already has been 2 fires in separate installations. Got excess power at a renewables site in a time of low demand? Use it to generate heat to be put into storage. Could run a turbine as required - cleaner power than what comes from an inverter!
@davieb8216 2 ай бұрын
That's more expensive and less efficient, as you are going electricity to heat with losses, then back to electricity with losses. Not good for Quick discharge either. There are batteries that work that way that haven't scaled up, but they haven't been able to compete with lithium iron due to all the funding behind it.
@daveh6356 Ай бұрын
Marine cables could resolve land access issues (& look better?) but with storage costs reducing I'm not sure if it makes sense. Maybe a trans-Tasman link to NZ? Would 4-hours make a difference?
@KarpKomet 2 ай бұрын
Tempting to "chase the sun" but it just doesn't quite add up, as the battery comparison shows. Would be nice to have another hour or two. Maybe with superconducting lines in the future. But i guess its still satisfying icing on the cake for any long west to east lines. It seems like whatever your cool green energy idea, grid scale li-ion will probably undercut it.
@Decarbonize11 2 ай бұрын
I suspect within a year or two grid scale batteries won't be lithium anymore. There are lots of chemistries that are cheaper and about to leave the lab.
@gregorymalchuk272 2 ай бұрын
You need 40 days of storage in order for it to be competitive with conventional generation and be sustainable.
@Decarbonize11 2 ай бұрын
@@gregorymalchuk272 The depends on the climate and I recall in one of her previous videos Rossie said that Australia doesn't have the long periods of Dunkelflaute, times without sun and wind, that other places do, so they don't need as much storage.
@KarpKomet Ай бұрын
@@Decarbonize11 Yes fingers crossed lots of new bat tech out of lab into the pilot commercial scale phase, exiting times, 6-8 hour storage will be pretty much solved if it isn't already. On to the tricky weekly seasonal stuff.
@jamesphillips2285 2 ай бұрын
Re sponsor: there is a reason they clear trees under power lines. The footage shows them planting trees under power lines.
@jxmai7687 2 ай бұрын
Cough, cough, it was just a show, I don't believe they even have the right to plant there, think about it, can you plant anywhere you like.
@phizicks Ай бұрын
you forgot the combination of UHVDC + Sydney batteries, more cost but does at least extend the power availability time. you're paying more but have much more capacity.
@BGittins1 27 күн бұрын
This discussion has been long overdue … thx
@AliHSyed 2 ай бұрын
UHVDC: Edison’s vindication
@VinoVeritas_ 2 ай бұрын
You're getting confused between Transmission and Distribution.
@davidbrayshaw3529 2 ай бұрын
No, it's not. Edison was competing against emerging remotely derived hydro AC technology which was able to be stepped up and down in voltage in order to facilitate efficient transmission. That was clever stuff, back in the day. Edison wanted to continue with locally generated low voltage DC because that was all his technology could produce. His reluctance to accept AC transmission was purely for commercial reasons. Keep in mind that at its peak there were hundreds of power stations dotted all over New York burning coal to produce electricity just for lighting. It was big business. The technology did not exist in the early years of last century to facilitate UHVDC. It's really only in the post war era that HVDC transmission has been able to be realised, let alone UHVDC. Edison didn't stand a chance. It couldn't be done.
@OneEyedMonkey9000 2 ай бұрын
Why not the USA and Australia? A: The petrodollar B: The petrodollar and C: capitalism
@davieb8216 2 ай бұрын
Na I think it was for the reasons in the video.
@Travlinmo 2 ай бұрын
And lobbying…. Which is probably under your comment…
@davidbangsdemocracy5455 2 ай бұрын
Why do people who did not watch the video bother to comment?
@passby8070 2 ай бұрын
and clueless politicians who have too much power and no vision other than trying to win popular votes with bad policies.
@atomicsmith 2 ай бұрын
“Everything I don’t like is capitalism” Stop being so intellectually lazy. You’re no better than the free market absolutists that think capitalism is the answer for everything….
@klaudio2803 Ай бұрын
How do you step up and down such high DC voltages? Can anyone explain the basic science behind it. I know that AC alternates and makes it rather simple to step up and down using transformers.
@murraymadness4674 Ай бұрын
I'd be pretty sure it does the same thing as we do on a small scale...convert the dc into pulsed dc (ac) and run it through a transformer.
@klaudio2803 Ай бұрын
@@murraymadness4674 Thanks
@JC-kl1sw Ай бұрын
Good video. One point to add regarding battery as an alternative: it has a fixed life span, e.g. 5000 cycles, which translates to 5-15 years depending on usage condition. This one factor could mean battery farm is cost prohibitive.
@nellyx8051 2 ай бұрын
For the love of sanity, cut out the annoying repetitive sound effects.
@sunspot42 2 ай бұрын
What about north/south lines, like from Mexico to Canada?
@markkeown9532 2 ай бұрын
How about the Pacific Intertie ~ 1972? Maybe not high enough voltage.
@olafschermann1592 2 ай бұрын
On HV DC electric arcs do not extinguish by them selfs because of the lack of voltage zero crossing. Why did Edison fail with DC? Wasn’t it the transport problem?
@AlRoderick 2 ай бұрын
When Edison was competing against Westinghouse and Tesla in the war of the currents, the technology to efficiently and simply step up and step down the voltage of DC didn't exist. Only AC could do that particular trick with something as simple as a transformer, which made it possible to transmit AC over long distances. It was possible for a big central power plant to generate high voltage DC and transmit it. The problem would be finding a way to cheaply step it down at local customer level. If it's AC, you just use a transformer, if it's DC, you need to do some interesting things that weren't really possible to do on the cheap until the invention of the transistor.
@jsoderba 2 ай бұрын
Edison's system transmitted DC at 110V all the way from generator to load, which limited the system to very short distances. Westinghouse's AC system transformed the AC power to high voltage for transmission and back down for distribution using more transformers. There was no way practical way to convert significant amounts of DC electricity from low to high voltage and back at the time. Modern HVDC relies on thyristors, a kind of semiconductor device initially developed in the 1950s, but they only gradually became efficient enough to handle large amounts of power.
@MihailG5541 2 ай бұрын
@@jsoderba Synchronous motors are used to balance AC - DC conversions at voltages up to 35 kV
@serversurfer6169 Ай бұрын
7:35 🤔 How often does that $4-billion battery need to be replaced though? UHVDC seems like the better investment overall. (You'll obviously need _some_ storage, but offshore hydro can handle that better than batteries.) DC works well underwater too, so Australia could conceivably share power with southeast Asia.
@wolfgangrenner4152 Ай бұрын
Do you know how the transformation from 1.100.000 Volt from AC to DC and AC back is done ? A single semiconductor may handle 1000 V maximal. Meaning you must switch and control 1000 Semiconductor elements in series. The other option would be vacuum tubes. They have no physical border. But are there tube rectifiers and AC generater for 1.000.000 Volts and 10.000 Amperes ? With normal transformators this values are only a question of size. But how to realize the conversion between DC to 3 phase AC in such power dimensions ?
@mykolapliashechnykov8701 Ай бұрын
Existing power thyristors handle about 6000V and 1000A so yes, HVDC inverters have hundreds of them in series and dozens in parallel. The art of controlling them without the whole inverting or rectifying facility going up in flames is... another matter, it's not really taught in a college. As for the vacuum tubes - no, they were never the option. Gas-filled tubes, on the other hand, are a possibilty, but for megavolt-scale their dimensions would be comparable to a house - in order to prevent unwanted arcing, and the heat dissipation would be insane compared to thyristors.
@wolfgangrenner4152 Ай бұрын
@@mykolapliashechnykov8701 Is this thyristor technique a chinese monopol ? In Europe there are also some High Voltage DC lines planed, for transporting Wind energy from cost to center of continent. But this are planed with 500 - 800 KV DC, Not 1200 KV. But the distances in Europe are maximal 1000 Km. Not 3000 km or more like in China. Moreover China has a much bigger energy economy than the deindustrialized european states. China produced 20.000 TWh per year. A big european state like France or Germany only 500 TWh per year. This is the reason that Western world has lost the aluminium production to China. And much more (Steel, Chemicals, Pharmacies, etc. etc. etc.).
@hans.vbaalen 2 ай бұрын
Would this work sub sea? Would be great to get African sun into northern Europe (Morocco to UK)
@jimurrata6785 2 ай бұрын
It does
@arivo9062 Ай бұрын
How big of a wire is it?
@sequitor 2 ай бұрын
Excellent presentation though I needed to reduce speed to .75
@brightfrost 18 күн бұрын
Good to see some KZfaq channels not falling into "China bad" narratives and actually talking about the positives stuff about China.
@paulanderson7796 15 күн бұрын
I agree completely. The way some Western channels demonise China is absolutely outrageous. Pure lies are being circulated constantly. Some YT channels dedicated to bashing China. Russia receives similar treatment as well.
Engineering with Rosie
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