It's pretty straightforward, I think. Citadel Paints do not stack too favorably against most of their competitors when it comes to quality or value for money, but the overwhelming majority of hobbyists aren't going to be good enough painters to really notice much of a difference. So the fact that they have decent quality control, great availability, and a lot of online support and marketing makes them a solid go-to range for most people. They also have Averland Sunset.

I like these conversational and casual videos. Nice

Are you required to carry Citadel paints when you sell GW kits? I have a few Citadel pots but the range I stick with is Pro Acryl. As someone who is colorblind, I find the use of universal color names to be invaluable.

at 4:30 - That's me! The only reason I switched was that it was really annoying me to have that big dried paint gunk at the back that I peel off, and it's so much easier to mix paint out of a dropper. That's really it, I otherwise would have stayed on with Citadel paints.

I think of paint as tools in my tool box. I use all kinds.

On the organization side, there is definitely a collecting aspect since a lot of people might buy more of a range they are in even if they don't use those paints. Personally speaking, staying in a system is just easier to organize. Dabbling across ranges can be ok but it starts to become a challenge to organize and store efficiently.

Citadel has been the trendsetter for a few decades. I would assume that's because of the massive market mindshare they enjoy. In the previous late 90s--early 2010s range, they notably launched two sub-ranges: Foundation paints and and Washes. They also had a few shake-ups in the core color offerings during that time. These two launches were both ostensibly beginner focused with ease of use in mind. The Foundation paints were highly pigmented and slightly desaturated paints which were the precursors of the modern Citadel Base paints. Likewise, Washes were the precursors to the modern Shades. After the Foundations launch GW their competitors expanded their ranges as well. For example, Vallejo Game Heavy, and Reaper HD paints. Likewise, after the Citadel Wash launch those same lines, and others like Army Painter, also introduced wash paints into their ranges. Vallejo's old Game lineup was probably the closest, or at least most derivative competitor to the 2000s line, with a similar range wide palette of colors and even very similar names. Two Thin Coats may have most near-direct Citadel equivalents in modern range. However, between the newly reformulated Vallejo Game and and Model Color lines you can probably find quite a few near equivalents. I guess Reaper isn't as relevant in the market as they used to be. I recall that in the early 2000s the had the Reaper Pro line, sold in pots, which was a bit cheaper than the Master Series paints. I think that had less flow improver added to the formula, which made them a bit thicker with better coverage than the MS paints, making them perhaps more ideal for base coats. If I remember correctly, I think that range may have been ultimately dropped because Reaper could no longer source the pots. The Master Series range is large, however, Reaper seems to have made more micro additions and subtractions to the range than most other companies over the years. Based on what I've read, the Bones ranges seem to be their newest high coverage formulation. When Contrast launched Citadel had quite a few more competitors in the hobby market and it seems like majority of the large to medium paint lines scramble to produce their own one-coat, glaze/shade combo paints (Reaper being one of the exceptions, so far.) All the brands have had varying degrees of success replicating Contrast since they all seem to be using different forms of medium and pigments. Even GW have sort of taken Contrast to it's a logical extreme with several the most recent wave of Contrast paints focusing on coverage and saturation rather than producing much in the way of their namesake contrast effect. [Edit]: There was also an airbrush paint trend in there somewhere. I can't remember if GW led or followed in that one. I'm assuming that's partially due to the rise hobby influencer culture.

(sells 15 different ranges of paint) My advice is to try them all!

I have citadel and vallejo. I do have issues with the citadel bottles (especially my primary colors) getting dried out bits stuck in the sides making it harder to close. Have to clean them out once in a while. On the other hand, I have issues getting the Vallejo paints to mix in the bottle, tend to come out runny unless I shake them for quite a while. They do feel like they apply differently, I kind of have to keep in mind which one I’m working with and how to use it.

I mostly paint with Ak and Vallejo, but I've been replacing my Citadel go-to paints with Duncan Rhodes's new set. I started with Citadel because of the reasons you cited, but I moved away after finding the other ranges I mentioned to be either cheaper or/and more consistent. Also, I airbrush. Citadel paints are too thick. Thinning them is a hassle compared to other ranges. My Citadel collection now is mostly washes and contrasts (I'm old style, so I don't use contrasts that much, except as a sort of ink to airbrush ).

It's been a long time since I painted for enjoyment. Mostly it's to (in theory) get models on the table. And I'm not the most creative person. I want to find a colour scheme I like and apply it to the models I use. For example I want my Alpha Strike models with a strong yellow "Imperial Fists" look. So for me, the ease of finding the colours used in the Citadel app, and the fact that I can find those paints in a bunch of stores makes Citadel my default because I know what I'll get out of it. So, for me I dig how easy it is. But I know that's not everyone else's use case.

Funny that my Citadel inks that I bought in 1989 are still viable...

If i had a choice on new army i would switch paints. Sadly using citadel so long, im very fearful to switch in case the colours dont match up and my army look obviously different.

Also, since I don’t have an airbrush, I’ve found that the Citadel rattle cans are much, much better than anything you can find at a hardware store.

Citadel is actually available locally and most online tutorials use it. I have mostly citadel for those reasons alone. My preference would be Vallejo for price and thickness.

I use paints from a lot of different ranges. I hate being tied down to just one paint range. While my favorite paints are Pro Acryl I use Citadel, Vallejo and Army Painter. I’ll base coat with one range and highlight or glaze with another. Whatever works.

Any day now Citadel is going to come out with a next gen paint and everybody will have to buy new bottles. I don't own many Citadel paints since most people I watch are display painters and don't use citadel much, but I find them serviceable. Some things like their technicals are top notch and are essentials. I think it's great they have the paint by numbers down pat to let new painters learn quickly and look good out the gate.

Citadel paints are excellent for consistency, availablity, widespread use, and amazingly wide range of stuff. Not to mention TONS of support product, and it's all always in the same place. Vallejo is sick too but it's a distant second. Edit - btw this was a really good video. Feedback: more technical chats hobbyside. Rules and business world are nice too but one thing we ALL do on this channel is hobby in some way.

It's not even just warhammer stores: Local game stores are typically not going to carry 7 things, and it's extremely rare for someone to carry warhammer models, and with them, come citadel paints. I have stores near me that barely do warhammer, but there's the entire citadel range, but no vallejo, and no ak. It's also a distribution issue too. How easy is it to get refills? is there are warehouse nearby that will fill up your Pro Acryl Bold Titanium White in 3 days? I think of, say, what happens when my local store in Spain wants to buy more Vallejo: The factory will ship back in a month, while a distributor will charge an extra cent per pot, and have the paint there the next day. If you have a distributor that good, then great! But few companies have a broad enough network that make sure paint ranges are cheap, available, and profitable for the retailer.

Availability, familiarity and consistency. I enjoy watching the Citadel painting tutorials so that’s another factor. Also as a White Dwarf subscriber, the painting articles are pretty good and of course reference Citadel paints.

Everybody knows and trusts James Workshop. That's why. He gives you such good deals his own grandmother has to starve in the gutters of Calcutta.

I'd say a combo of brand recognition, availability, and being tied into some of the most popular tabletop games on the market, as well as being the first to do the Contrast paint thing. Their quality varies from on-par with their competitors, to subpar (metallics), to borderline-defective (the liquid chalk they sell as white and off-white paints), so I don't think they have that going for them.

I moved from Vallejo to citadel specifically because my first painting project was ordered online (and I could do the paints that way in the same box) but my LGS only carried citadel so as I needed new one off paint colors for additional projects it became a seriously impossible effort to buy a Vallejo bottle for $3 plus $5-6 shipping when I could go to the lgs and pay $5 a pot. My LGS just added the fanatic range, but I’m now years into the citadel system and not sure if I want to up and change unless it’s for a brand new project instead of army additions

Jason: "I know there is a few people that have their OCD, and they love having their beautiful rack at home with the jars lined up... I will not disparage that..." / Chris: "... just recognize what it is, it is not about paint..." => I feel hurt, betrayed by my enablers 😆😆😆

Personally, as an amateur painter in the truest sense, I've used Citadel, Army Painter, and Vallejo - and I just like how Citadel "feels". Which is absolutely arbitrary, but that's how I decided. Though Army Painter has won me over with their Speed paint. Contrast is good, but.....Speed paint "feels" better. I'm actually keen to try that Two Thin Coats range - my FLGS carries a rack of it.

I think the Citadel paint categories aren’t unique, just clever marketing. In other ranges, some colors cover well and some don’t, and we chalk it up to inconsistency or to the usual suspects like bright reds and yellows. What GW has done, IMO, is simply marketed the well-covering paints as Base paints and the less-covering as Layer paints. IE, with your bright yellow paint not covering well, what’s a bug in another paint range is now a feature in the GW one. Because GW is selling their bright yellow as being designed for use over a darker base yellow, while another brand doesn’t, meaning a newer painter will try to use it over black and then think it sucks, while only using their GW yellow layer over a more friendly GW yellow base.

Are the new Army Painter paints actually good? Or are they just doing good marketing like their speed paints?

After some Vallejo frustrations I switched over and collected almost all of the AK 3rd Gen range (minus a few of the military drabs which overlap too much for my taste). Part of it is absolutely the collector-gene manifesting, but I do find real value in having a full baseline color set. I've added paints from other lines, but as accents and extensions to the AK range.

It's not just that they're the most widely available from a customer point of view, but (as I'm sure you guys can attest) they're the most consistently available for a brick and mortar store to be able to stock and sell. I kept using Citadel paints for 10+ years after I left GW because of the consistent availability.

I’m guilty of collecting the citadel paints, I nearly have the whole set but will still see a recipe I like with one I’m missing.

In the marketing world, if an incumbent company is first to market and has the dominant market share, it is very difficult for competitors to dislodge them. The #1 company just has to play defense, if a new entrant or existing competitor creates a new product line and eats into the #1 company's market share, the dominant company can just copy that product line or innovation and start winning market share back.

My only complaint with Citadel paints is that they do not offer a more standardized labeling scheme for the colors. Army painter is way ahead there.

Citadel paints are fine, and a very good point about the colors. They are not my favorites in the normal paint line as I find them a bit thick and more difficult for me to use, but I love Contrast and own the whole range of them. I have 5 brands though and enjoy them all for different uses.

I still use Citadel Base paints because I have yet to find anything with as good of coverage, and on the rare occasion I want to use a speed paint I prefer the syrupy nature of Contrast. For most other applications I prefer other paint lines but they're so hard to find in my area. I like Vallejo and Two Thin Coats for layering but my store rarely has them in stock. "Sorry, it'll be three more months before we can get another shipment from Spain/UK." I swear that Vallejo Flat Black is a better investment than gold with how hard it is to find. And as for the "boutique" brands like Pro Acryl or Scale 75 I'd have to drive halfway across the state to find a store that bothered to stock them. I've started toying around with Warpaints Fanatic because at least they're produced domestically so they should be more readily available, but so many stores have been burned by Army Painter that even those are hard to find.

Citadel paint is generally pretty great, the pot hatred is mostly a meme at this point, they're fine, not great, but it does have it's issues, like all paint ranges. I've found vallejo and army painter paints that I hate and citadel ones generally regarded as bad, that I have no issues with, all depends on how you use them. My only real issue with Citadel is how often they change the formulas or just drop paints entirely. Still annoyed they reformulated Nuln Oil as that paint was perfect. I've yet to find a good replacement, tried army painter, two thin coats, nothings quite that same.

While I will use other paints on occasion, I have spent 25 years using the GW paints. I know how they thin out , I know what they look like and how they mix, and I understand intuitively how the colors will work. Not gonna learn a whole new paint line just because someone on KZfaq said they work better.

You're not entirely wrong about the complaints on the containers..... but the problem is when one brand feels the need to charge so much more for their product over their competitors, I"m not going to let those little things go. You want more money for your product? Your product better be tippy top in terms of design and quality, and the desicions behind it's design better be at least on par with it's competitors. I don't HATE the jars, but man do I feel like I'm wasting a lot of (expensive) paint whenever I use them.

Surprised that no company came out with a "no need for primer" color range.

its popular because its always sold right beside the kits and gw is very good at making the paints available at stocklists with an aggressive restocking policy. of coz there is also the ''infuenzer'' factor as online personalities always try to slip in one or two citadel colours even though they can don't need to lol. i personally never bought a single pot of citadel paint. the ones i had were all given to me and i had no hesitation binning them after they dried out.

The citadel whites are my only dislike of that paint. Dropper bottles..... ever get a mixing ball stuck up the top? and blow the nozzle out? ive had dropper bottle lids crack - only ever spilled two citadels in 7 years. It does cost alot more tho....

Citadel has the lowest barrier to entry and the most support for new people. Almost like it’s designed that way. And it’s art! Try new things and do what you feel like. You’re never wrong. You’re doing it your way. But I’m a die hard citadel paint user, and my main reason for it is I can do anything those other paints do with citadel. And I own them already.

They are very good paints, but the frickin pots ruins it :/

There is a real challange in differentiating one hobby paint range from another. More often then not it seems the main reason why some people will use one range over another is the percieved cost of the paint. I dont think quality of the range really matters all that much once you hit a certain minimum level of quality. I could find paints that are a higher quality then Citadel, but I am not at a level of skill, nor do i aspire to a level of skill, where I think that increase in quality is going to matter. I did go down the route of buying the full sets of two thin coats paints, and you're 100% that it wasn't really about quality. For me I just needed to refresh my paint collection. I'd fallen into the habbit of buying random paints for every new project and just had a lot of half used, dried out junk. In terms of quality, TTC is fine, but not so amazing that I would have rushed out and bought them if I wasn't explicitly looking to do a full set in one go (and really that 'full set' could have been another range).

Color matching what's on the box. All GW tutorials that result in re-creating box art or codex armies all use those paints. They're hardly the best, and probably not the worst, but that's why.

Their contrast paints are still better than Army Painter. I'm so let down by that crap. Whatever is supposed to be the binder for Army Painter just flakes off if you blink wrong.

I like some Citadel colours but the price is a barrier too... Aren't companies making versions of Citadel colours because of the popularity of GW games???

Name recognition. Period. Someone says nuln oil, I know exactly what they are talking about

Really surprised at some of these takes. Citadel pots suck, their paints do dry out and separate faster. The lack of a ball in the pot sucks. Dropper bottles are far better for people using a wet palate. I paint *hundreds* of minis a year and Citadel paints are easily replaceable by several other lines. Contrast was a game changer and probably the only GW paints really worth it.

Same reason Pepsi is so popular. The good brand isn't always available.

I would politely disagree about the box art. Yes to get the color palate, they will match, however you will not get the mini to look the same. Ninjon did a video about this, if he can't replicate box art, almost no one can. I use Golden, Monument, and Arteza. Arteza is interesting. It's a toothpaste constancy and I now use it for all dry brushing purposes. The reason I stopped using GW paints is 1. the price and 2. the container. The container is super wasteful to get paint out and it has a short 1-2 year lifespan. To get off of GW paints, 1. accept that you will not be able to replicate what the box art looks like, 2. be okay with coming up with your own palate. I do have to comment on the "if you use Citadel paints and keep them mixed up they will last longer. In my experience, most hobbyist put down the hobby for periods of time. I don't think it's a good assumption to state that as long as you keep using it, it will be fine. Lastly, other paint brands have put paints into categories of opacity. Would have liked to see some cons of citadel paints in this video. IE why is Citadel so popular even though it has these issues.

They are not popular. Rather mediocre, if not outright bad because the lids let the paint dry out. I have switched to Vallejo years ago.

Not having to deal with dropper bottles is a big plus as well! I have tons of dropper bottles but really prefer the GW pots