Paywalls! If people can’t watch for free on tv they aren’t likely to ever turn up and buy tickets

The biggest problem for the Premiership is the paywall I had loads of mates at uni who watched the World Cup and absolutely loved it, the problem is bc it’s not accessible for them without paying it’s not worth it On top of that even paying for TNT sport doesn’t guarantee all the matches which is a complete joke

I would watch domestic rugby if there was a single platform that showed it at a fair price. Sport on tv/online is so all over the place I don't know where/how to watch it. Watching highlights on youtube is all I can do at the moment.

Rugby needs to appeal to the working class more

Simple fact domestic rugby is watched by the real rugby public where as the international rugby brings in people from all walks of life

In Ireland there seems to be a surprisingly big post world cup interest - 50,000 this weekend for Munster-Leinster and nearly full stadiums for the early weeks while the international were still missing.

Paywall = excuse. Here's some reasons. I'm a Cornishman, lived in Francs for 8 years. For the past 4 years I had a season ticket at Brive, who get over 10k for a population of under 50k. Not this year though because of the ridiculous schedules of Thurs and Fri night rugby at 9.00 with an hours travel each way. Thanks TV. But I watch, as you say, Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun on Canal+. The Cornish are passionate about their rugby, really passionate and it's like that particularly in SW France. Look at the history of the clubs that won the French championship. The size of the clubs. I had a long conversation about this with my local bar owner a couple of weeks ago. They still blame the ref for the SA defeat, while the English shrug it off and it's forgotten. They won't forget about it for years. There is far more enthusiasm in French crowds. Derby's are sometimes hours distant, but the passion is tangible. I started watching rugby again because of the quality of the teams and the players here. Even Pro D2 teams now are attracting top quality players. Apart from Cornwall, I've seen very little of this real passion in England. Of course there are exceptions, and I've seen it Gloucester, Bath and Leicester, but not like 40k Cornishman singing their hearts out at Twickenham for a relatively minor competition. Incidentally, I went to 2 matches in the World Cup and for Eng v Japan at Nice and the tickets for my wife and I would have paid for 2 season tickets at Brive and probably an annual Sky subscription. And another thing. Many people just don't understand the Laws of rugby. Until the authorities do something about simplifying the game and the sometimes incompréhensible decisions, then many people will quite simply be turned off. Probably reads like rubbish, wish I'd got out of bed and typed this on my laptop and not my mobile. Allez Brive and the Cornish Pirates. Dreckly.

When you compare the numbers to Australian tv numbers for the NRL my god difference is huge. As a domestic competition the NRL cannot be touched. Amazing product!

Speaking under correction but domestic rugby requires an expensive subscription to dstv which has exclusive rights to rugby broadcasting in South Africa which I believe hurts the figures a lot for domestic rugby

South African teams are bringing something good. The games between Irish provinces and South African teams are becoming interesting.

I'm sure SA is only "free to air" during the World Cup tournament. For the rest, URC, English Premiership and French league is all via subscription. With Saffers playing across the Northan Hemisphere leagues, there is a solid following locally here in SA. Many thanks for your great content Tim!!

I used to watch a lot of Superugby - couldn't afford DSTV, but I would go to a pub and watch. It was a great afternoon out, and many pubs would be packed with people with the same plan. From a South African perspective, I think viewership of club rugby started dropping off when Superugby was expanded to include more teams - meaning that teams became a little watered down and less competitive.

Aviva stadium sold out for Munster v Leinster URC group match on Saturday! Irish provinces are drawing in good crowds. This continues a trend from before the WC. England is different but it is being catastrophically mismanaged like Wales. Not sure about elsewhere. The ratio idea isn't a good comparison I think. Club success and strong, long termist organisation seem to be the key.

I really think they need to get it on terrestrial channels.

In Australia, almost all games are played in one state, for elites. You cannot watch rugby without paying hundreds a year, and there's so much competition in cities like melbourne where every major football code is large

I regularly watch domestic rugby on TV and live (Exeter chiefs fan). As far as the UK goes the biggest problem is the horrible, negative style the national team plays- it just doesn't interest casual fans. Luckily the Prem is generally more entertaining as the teams know thats the best way to get people excited but for the casual fan who mainly watches England the problem is how do they see the Prem if it's behind a subscription service?

I’m a Saffa living in the UK, my team are the sharks in the URC, to me the biggest problem is I have to have a via sports subscription to watch my team, if I wanted to watch premiership rugby which I’d like too, I’d have to get BT, I like to watch the springboks so I have to have skysports, then I enjoy going to watch my local team the Rotherham Titans, when you start adding up the cost to do all these things you realise it’s a lot of money so I end up keeping sky to watch the boks and I go to the my local clubs home games. My opinion is that football is the problem, you want to watch international rugby on sky? No problem but you will contribute to the football subscription, you want to watch premiership rugby on BT no problem but you’ll contribute to the football subscription. I’d rather watch paint dry then watch football

5:58 - South Africa doesn’t have free to air rugby broadcasting. You require a Supersport subscription to watch games. The national broadcaster, the SABC, did broadcast certain RWC games on their free to air channels - but that was an exception to the norm and it required extensive negotiations with Multichoice (owner of Supersport), who hold exclusive rights

In SA, the World cup was shown on terrestrial TV, where the URC is limited to the nations equivalent of "Sky sports". It also helps if you have electricity to actually turn your TV on to see the game. lol.

I still watch NZ domestic rugby, despite immigrating to Australia 20 years ago. The crowds in the stands are pitiful. When I was a young man, we always went to support the provincial side after playing our own school or club game and the stands were full or at least healthy. Two things have changed since then. Firstly, participation in the game is declining in NZ. Second, for tv viewers, it’s too easy to watch higher levels of international rugby for the same price.

In South Africa, im not sure how much it does affect it but the subscription fee to watch super rugby is a bit expensive for some fans. While the world cup was broadcasted for free.

Rivalry doesn't exist in the club game anymore. Because everything is geared towards the international game, club players don't go at each other anymore. Example would be Coles V Beaudy 2 seasons ago, when they looked like two mates having a laugh and messing with each other in the park. If you watch football, where clubs hate each other, these games are massively watched because everyone is interested in the rivalry.

Since the RWC i am actually following the URC, its pretty cool that i can once again get into the stormers. But my word its all behind pay walls...get it on terestrial telly and im in.

International rugby is like a shop window for the domestic game. France, even though they have never won the world cup (like most international sides) have always produced amazing and entertaining and unpredictable rugby and so it is easy to see how this might attract people to the domestic game. We also have to remember that rugby is still a relative minnow compared to football and a significant portion of fans play, coach or ref and will be involved in their own grass roots games in some way, which is great. I agree with some of the other posts that it is tricky to watch rugby without having to pay separately for it and so to grow the sport the rugby authorities should think more about having domestic games and cups etc on a free to air basis. Rugby league seems to manage this. Great video with great points.

Tim, I need to try and explain to you about the currie cup in SA. We all have a provincial team that we support, and if our team isn't playing we rarely watch the game. We are fanatical about our provincial teams. When these teams get combined into the Springbok team, we all rally behind them, regardless of their province.... I also take exception that you don't cover the oldest competition in the world and also the biggest local competition in SA - The CURRIE CUP. I would love to see the viewership numbers on the currie cup final. - Sadly much of it is behind a paywall also... Regardless, awesome content as usual - keep it up!

Make this guy the president of all sport , not just rugby. Tim - you’re incredibly articulate and insightful. Thank you from Cape Town.

Can't comment on TV numbers but the crowds for the urc have been good for the early season particular pleasing to see benetton sell out the munster match over 40000 tickets sold by Monday for the munster leinster match in the avia and the connacht Edinburgh match looked pretty full in the hive

Hi Tim, eggcellent commentary as always. Just a point on SA, I stand to be corrected but as far as I am aware we only had the pay tv option (which is now extremely expensive for the average SA household) for the WC or we streamed like I did. This has become the norm here as the "state broadcastor" either can not afford the TV rights or have chosen not to for some reason (I'll leave that to the imagination). We have had our local competition, The Curry Cup, for decades now and during our exclusion from sport worldwide this drew huge numbers to games and when we eventually got TV in SA this was a highlight of most Saturdays when we weren't playing in the schools games, or even the club games. Not to mention the fact that it produced some worldclass players who were not afforded the opportunity to don the green and gold. Gong back to the beginning I am not sure if your figures include streaming? if not I think the figures could be much higher considering the almost 500K people who have cancelled their pay TV subscriptions over the past year and moved to streaming. Cheers

When I lived in Japan, my mates and i would watch World Cup, Tri Nations, Six Nations and we could also get Super 14/15. But, the locations to watch became more rare and now in the USA, I have to "rely" on streams that are not always there for the domestic games. I have watched more this year. I do not watch TV, have not my adult life, but I make seasonal annual plans depending on RWC, 6N and TriNation ( i still call it that even with Argentina).For me, mostly geography, but also....its just not the same as watching Boks and All Blacks.

In South Africa the problem is paywalls. Our national broadcaster does not cover rugby. They cover football but I suspect as the domestic support for rugby grows that will change. As a rugby fan I only started watching some urc matches when our teams started performing as we expect. Super rugby lost its shine quickly when we realused that the deck was stacked against SA teams due to the travel schedule. Then to add we had to make space for extra Oz teams but had to combine teams locally for the tournament. The URC is good because the Irish clubs provide our top clubs proper contests and the time zones work. We do have a problem now with to much rugby. Domestic competitions, urc, Heineken cup. Our squads are to small but already our clubs are adapting. I think once cope with the volume we will get competitive in Heineken cup. Maybe a year or 2 more. Viewership locally is very much driven by how competitive we are.

You raised some great points. I think if you compare premier league to Top 14, the sport is a lot more broad in France, in terms of players, recruiting and supporters. They made a huge effort to grow the sport in the housing estates and recruiting a broader demographic. The following in France is also broader. The ticket prices are accessible.

When SA were in super rugby it was only on DSTV. URC is also difficult outside DSTV for people to watch. France have pro 14 on TF1/2 so you can view outside pay tv. During the world cup TF1 also broadcast the world cup outside canal + so masive figures.

I am watching the URC and some of the Premiership and will watch some Super Rugby as I do every year. And, of course, the local Currie Cup in South Africa. I am a bit of a dinosaur and love the game dearly, so I look forward to the weekend's rugby every week. In South Africa, rugby is only shown on a pay channel, which is exorbitantly expensive (in South African terms), so I understand why it is watched less widely despite our people's passion for the game. I miss the old Super Rugby with South Africa and Argentina, but I have high hopes for the URC.

10:10 This is a remarkable observation. People looking for problems where there aren't any, or exacerbating them when there is no need to!

I think it's really important to remember that in the case for South - Africa, most people can't always afford to watch the rugby and most of the time rugby is watched it is not done at home and more in a crowd setting because of that... but of course people would make an exception for a world cup

100% agree with you. From a South African perspective it starts the fan attendance. I remember going to kings park weekly with my old man to watch Natal now the Sharks in mid to late 90s, but now it’s absolutely mission to get to grounds. The stadium is still situated in the CBD, most of suburbs around the stadium have become commercialised to serve as businesses added to that crime in the city is pretty bad, and it’s because really expensive to travel in to watch the Sharks, no domestic transports which means you have to take private transport into the stadium from either Kloof/Ballito where a bulk of supporters live. If you not going to the game then you not going to talk about it on the Monday and work, or the next family braai. Those interactions of explaining the “vibe” you had a stadium makes more people want to go, and once it’s fully booked then you will watch… to make yourself part of conversation. The springboks brand has done a massive job get the entire country to ingratiate into supporting the team however this doesn’t follow through at domestic level . Maybe the Cape is a bit different. But I still think think that if they could take the sports to more audience it will make a difference, maybe that means playing away from traditional venues, and set up fan parks to get away from the paywall. Our problems are not associated with negative press ( scrums, physicality, concussion etc ) That’s not stopping fan engagement. It’s acceptability

Reflecting back, there was a lot to be said for amateur rugby. There were genuine rivalries, the big games were truly massive occasions, and nothing beat the excitement of a touring team like The All Blacks. It feels like there's a small pool of players who just play each other too many times now. I lived in Australia back in 2001 and even then, I found it boring seeing the same players all the time.

NRL is thriving in Australia because they embrace the physicality of the sport.

i would say the top 14 viewership is so much higher because of to main things: 1. a good business plan that makes viewership easy and accessible, 2. alot of the teams in the top14 and pro D2 are RUGBY towns. Toulouse and La Rochelle are rugby cities through and through, and other areas in the south of france also have a rugby fan majority over football and i think thats something other countries just dont have as much (commonwealth countries also have to share focus with cricket football and whatever variation of football that country has). I also think with rugby only recently turning professional (relatively speaking) anyone over the age of 20 has grown up in a world where club rugby just didnt have much steam compared to the international teams, so no one has identified with the clubs as much as their country.

50,000 seats sold to date for Leinster v Munster tomorrow , always a huge crowd !

Rugby as a football code in Australia as a spectator sport ranks a long way behind the AFL (Austalian Football) , NRL (rugby league) and probably even the soccer (football). I dont know if they even televise club rugby in this country anymore.The ARU is battling to find a broadcaster who will pay anywhere near the asking price for the hosting rights. Broadcasters are trying to make money and they know that the only time they are likely to get a decent viewing audience will be for international matches involving the Wallabies and that will probably only be in the 2 rugby states.. At the same time free to air and pay TV services are continually outbiding each other and paying record sums for the rights to host both the domestic competitions of the AFL and the NRL. Its sad to see a country with such a long rugby history (even won 2 previous world cups) losing their interest in the sport. I think that the next rugby world cup in Australia will be the make or break for the game in this country and it will decide whether it remains a mainstream sport. The Australian franchises in the Pacific competition really only make up the number and the way that the wallabies are struggling just to be competative makes it hard for long suffering rugby supporters to see any light at the end of the tunnel.

People like you and other rugby KZfaqrs could review more domestic games. E.g. team of the week etc. it would be great to have prem. rugby on terrestrial tv would definitely help as many people don’t have bt sport etc. these are a couple of things that would definitely help me to watch more rugby - instead I’m limited to watching KZfaq highlights. Can’t afford loads of different tv subscriptions

South Africa the problem is rugby shows only on Super Sport and you can only watch on the most expensive package. Millions can't watch URC. The world cup games Springboks played in, was shown on free TV channels in world cup. that's the reason.

In SA Supersport charges exorbitant fees for the premium subscription package. A lot of people can't afford that.

Its really hit or miss with whether or not the games are on Irish television players (RTE2 etc), they might have a Connacht game on this week, ulster next week or something like that but I have a hard time each week finding the Munster games.

Thanks Tim! Love your rugby channel ❤Awesome content 👍🏼

I think the main reason rugby isn’t as popular is because of the all consuming football audience. It’s basically impossible for rugby to compete especially in England which has one of the biggest domestic football leagues. People might only want to watch one game/event of sport a week and that is less likely to be rugby and more likely to be football. It doesn’t help that I believe rugby is marketed poorly and doesn’t have many stars and not enough content is made around the game and as silly as it may sound it doesn’t have a good quality video game counterpart. The fifa franchise has 100% influenced interest in the sport especially with the newer generation of people. I love rugby but I know that a lot of people don’t care about the domestic game but will consistently watch internationals. England domestic game needs a massive rebuild in structure which I don’t see happening.

Tim, I don't know about English Rugby but Irish Rugby is doing alright. If half of the one million viewers of the URC Final were from Ireland, that means 1.4 to 0.5 or a three to one ratio and Leinster was playing in the European Champions Cup the weekend before and there was also the Semi-Finals the weekend before with 3 Irish clubs. The URC had over 1.6 million attendants in 2022/23 season, Leinster v Munster group stage/non-Play-Off game in Dublin and Limerick was 45,436 and 25,600 with the semi final 26,795, DHL Stormers V Connacht Semi-final was 47,261 attending (big Munster/Leinster rivalry), and 55,000 at Final. So far for Munster Rugby attendance is in URC: 11,239 for Sharks, 5,000 for Benetton, 8,171 for Dragons, 14,960 for Ulster, 15,044 for the Stormers.

Hi Tim, I think rugby in England, which is going through a tough time, is an opportunity to review and reform. England has a large population similar to France. Therefore I believe England should be looking to France for inspiration. However I think fundamental change is required in England. Here in Ireland, it is early days for the URC. The new season has seen fantastic games of rugby already and great crowd attendance for the Irish teams.

Loving the content Tim ... super job 👏

Great rant! You just put in to words everything I love about rugby! I'll be going to watch my beloved Racing 92 at every home game even though they find a new way to fuck up success every season.

Hey Tim, as usual awesome content; I subscribed because of the World Cup but continued to ‘tune in’ since .. glad I did .. your content is way better than terrestrial TV so .. best of luck with this channel, keep it going & hopefully growing .. this is one of the pieces of the jigsaw what’s needed to grow rugby .. informed, analytical and passionate.. thank you Tim 🏉🙏🏽

Not In France, TOP14 and PROD2 have no problem like this

This coming weekend, Saturday 25th November 2023, the biggest club game in the world is going to take place. Leinster v Munster at The Aviva Stadium, Lansdowne Road, Dublin. Already it’s a 52,000 all seater sell out. Bearing in mind the relatively small population of Ireland, with all of the other sports that are also played across the country, there will also be a viewing audience of over 1 million people on the RTE channel, free to air. The game will also be watched live across the world by millions of rugby fans, some of whom will be Irish emigrants to other parts of the world. But also, many of them will have no connection to Ireland but will be interested to watch just this particular game. Why are Irish games so well attended? Free to air TV. That’s the key. There’s NO subscription fee to watch the majority of URC games on the RTE television channel. Because of this exposure, huge interest in rugby has been created which has directly fed into increased attendance figures. And in many very cases it has also turned into a family outing, with parents and children attending. That now means that all the URC games that are played right across the season in Ireland, whether in Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Limerick or Galway, are always well attended, with numbers almost always approaching capacity.

Having the World Cup on terrestrial TV will have helped, whilst all the local competitions are on paid subscriptions and not everyone has access to this. Bring rugby back to terrestrial would help.

Brilliant analysis as always Tim!

Hi Tim, Thanks for your work on this channel - great content. As mentioned in videos by you, Alfie and GBR channels, I think there’s a lot to learn from the NFL, French domestic leagues and other sports. I wanted to long rant so here’s what I would do, although it hinges on a competent RFU which we don’t have currently. It’s not perfect and I’m no expert, but there has to be some improvements in the game that could work. League Structure Like the NFL, have the RFU absorb and then run the domestic leagues so the union control the league with a commissioner. Blending the NFL and French Rugby, form a top tier league and lower leagues below, like: - P1 - Premiership - C2 - Championship - D3-6 - Divisions/National League The Premiership should be a 10 team league, maintaining the concept of rounds and then the play-off structure, but have genuine relegation/promotion with the Championship. I would also take this further to broaden the game into the Women’s league(s) and also like the NCAA, a University league - all including in the streaming broadcast below. Competition Rewards Some of the prize money structure from Formula 1 could be implemented to incentivise final league position, but you also have to support lower finishing teams. Like NFL, you want competition and for anyone to be able to win - the “any given Sunday” concept. So perhaps, there needs to be some kind of increased salary cap for lower finishing teams to be able to spend next season. A draft would be amazing but we don’t have college structure to allow this, but what if players elapsing on contracts at the end of the season can go into a pool for a draft concept where lower placed teams get first pick and have more money to spend on salaries. Kits Like US sports leagues, the RFU should put out kits rights to tender to one provider across both domestic and national teams. Each domestic team must have a colourful/non-white home kit and predominantly white away kit. Before each season the kit designs are validated by the RFU to ensure no clashes. Teams must where their home kit at home and vice versus. A third kit can be available for non-league competitions to avoid clashes. Kits should also define specific areas for sponsorship. In the league, define the derby match ups and have key weekends to play these and have the option of a limited edition retro kit. RFU and provider to work to make merchandise affordable for fans but still profitable, splitting earnings between the provider, league and equal to teams. Broadcast Limiting broadcast to subscription on the likes of BT Sports/TNT on Sky limits access severely. I pay for the sports pack but still don’t even get the rugby without an extra subscription. They are either losing potential viewers or they watch illegally. They should make a choice to go with: - A terrestrial/FTA option that includes all England internationals - A lower cost streaming option, like MLS have done with Apple TV that for $80 gets you access to live and on demand, ability to follow your own team, multiple device access - Build their own streaming and channel option like F1 TV similar to the above option. So many viewers have an Apple TV, Firestick, smart TV, mobile etc. This way you can pay monthly (£8-10) and then pick and choose when you watch or save with an annual subscription. Go for reach and then revenue will come later. They can the also ensure that all the leagues have matches shown/available to watch in some form. Even at the low level, you can stream from an iPhone these days so technology is not longer the blocker. In the US, College and even High School draw huge audiences - we could be watching University and even School Boy rugby. Find the stars at grassroots level and follow their progress to professional. Tell the story. On you point around the Prem final only getting 1M viewers vs. the 6N at 8M. The issue is, regardless of it being FTA - if you don’t follow those two teams, you’re less likely to watch. A better comparison would be the avg. 6N weekend viewers to avg. Prem weekend viewers - which might be low at 250K now, but that’s behind a very expensive paywall. Change to a more affordable streaming option and you can increase those numbers The holy grail would be one place for Rugby streaming that allows you to pick and choose your content e.g you could pick a bundle that includes English leagues, URC and Internationals etc. Attendance/Tickets Alfie just put out a good video on price of tickets - bottom line, it’s just too bloody expensive for not a great experience. Money is tight for fans, but also tight for clubs. The overall feeling is that rich club owners are just rinsing fans. Clubs have obviously got to make money, but if attendance is falling, they need to incentivise fans to actually buy tickets. Schedule World Rugby and the Unions have to nail down a schedule that means internationals don’t overlap with the leagues. Like you mentioned, less rugby but higher quality maybe better and then make sure it’s scheduled in a way with no conflicts. At the international level, ensure World Rugby has some form of test rugby happening globally - so like the 6N and Summer Series, what’s happening for Tier 2 nations in Europe or the likes of North and South America. Superstars We’ve got to grow superstars. Nobody knows the players, their stories etc. If you have your own streaming channel which is ad supported, have those adverts include the players. When games aren’t on, have content available that is focussed on individual players stories or behind the scenes at clubs - F1 on Sky does this well. Or even segments on understanding the game in more detail. National Team Eligibility For the men’s game, they have to allow players to still be picked if playing abroad otherwise there’s talent just being missed. But like France, perhaps set a minimum number of English players per team in the squad to develop talent, 25 caps to be eligible to play from abroad, increase salary cap for English players and implement part of the central contract model so they can earn extra from the RFU for being in the extended England squad and make up some of the deficit to going abroad.

I live in France, in Bordeaux which has the best supported club in Europe as far as attendance at the stadium is concerned. Having a ground with a capacity over 24 000 helps. The ground was rescued (by the local city council) from developers when the football team moved out in 2015 and the rugby team moved in, so remains in the centre of town, it all adds to the enjoyment of attending and ticket prices start around 20€. One thing I would add though, it is all great as a local spectator to go to games, but the Sunday night game starting at 9pm is terrible.

Ill see you next year in South Africa Tim. Be ready boet!

I played in France for 2yrs, its like a religion over they're a bit closer to what footy is over here .

As an Irishman, I would generally watch all the Irish derbies on TV that I can. And go to Leinster games. I would also watch the Irish teams against teams like Glasgow, Stormers, or Scarlets (when they were good a few years back). But honestly, watching on TV, one of the things tha is actually important is if you are looking at a full or empty stadium. The games at Rivenhill for example are always nice to look at, because its nearly always packed, the crowd is engaged. Thomond Park is amazing when full, but can look a little grim when half empty. Unfortunately the games in SA in huge empty stadiums are just not great to watch on TV. However, I wouldn't watch really any games where none of the Irish provinces are involved. I can't stay how likely I would overall be to watch a final without an Irish province, because it doesn't happen that often.

The big exception to that is Ireland. The 4 provinces are well supported. Home and away.

Excellent video, Tim, really enjoyed it and you make some good points. One sport you did not mention is boxing. Perhaps in a similar contact sport there is a valid comparison, here? In particular, everyone wants to see the title fights, but how many people go to watch local boxing matches? Also rugby does not help itself by having domestic competitions continuing with second-string players whilst the cream of the crop (who everyone wants to see) are away on International duties. Obviously this is an over-simplifications of a complex problem which rugby authorities struggle with world-wide.

Good question and I wondered this myself. I also wondered why I wasn't interested to watch the club rugby after the international stuff - especially as a lot of the games are just as good or better. I think it's because A) it feels like a step down - like going from a hot swimming pool to a slightly less hot swimming pool - and B) because it feels like then I'm getting too much into my rugby. I think Premiership Rugby should work harder to market their season off the back of the world cup, to keep that momentum going - it doesn't seem like there was a lot of that going on and that is to their loss. At the same time I sympathise because budgets are tight, and Premiership sides always put on a great show.

South African figures are understated

Really interesting vid Tim. When Wales went out of the WC the views on my small channel tanked by about 10x I think the fact that over the last few years Welsh rugby hasn’t been free to air and this season while some games are on BBC the Welsh derbies have been behind a pay wall 🤷🏻‍♂️ Madness. Means it’s hard to get people excited in there teams as they don’t see them play regularly Great vid mate

Also in the uk it’s on C4, BT and ITV I think all over the shop.

Supply exceeds demand

There was an excitement in France and Ireland driven by the hype of being ranked 1 and 2 in the world that helped draw alot of attention from the casual viewers (I know as my mother and aunts, who never watch sport, were arguing about ref calls on WhatsApp). Being on prime viewing times of 9 and 8pm respectively also helps draw in couch surfers, and being tight exciting games is what kept them there. Those points would have helped inflate the numbers this time. Hard to perceive these numbers being matched during the next WC in Australia being 10/11 hours ahead. Best of to see if the 6 nations and champions cup have an uptick in viewership compared to last year, find that to have a more natural pull then the domestic leauges

South Africa domestic/urc is behind a massive paywall.

Love the channel, South African supporter. Well done on a great product. I will listen to you rather than the "Pros". I think we might have a over supply of rugby? You must have been a rugby ref in a previous live because that is the only way you can have such a unique view on rugby. When you come to Cape Town come for a Braai!! Love your view on the game!!

Here in NZ the declining crowds are due to a number of reasons..Firstly sporting culture here has moved on .We have such a wider range of sports or pastimes as compared to 2 decades or more ago when rugby was the big ticket.secondly moving to evening games has seen a drop off in attendance,we used to play 230pm kickoffs and it suited bigtime.thirdly beer is too expensive and might aswell watch on the Tele where you can watch replays and drink cheaper piss,nothing gonna change down here.

I agree with many of your points, certainly seems France are a country mile ahead, I do think to a lesser extent that’s probably heightened by it being their home World Cup and been building towards that for a while. I also know of people who watched it and get frustrated with the refs deciding too much in terms of the outcome when it comes to cards etc, I’m not saying I want to change that but I can see how it’s fairly unique in our sport and could turn people off who are trying to learn the game and are turned off by inconsistencies even within a single game. I’m also not sure how accurate those stats would be in this day and age, with all the illegitimate Iptv streams which I assume can’t be tracked or wouldn’t exist, add to that many avid rugby fans would rather gather at their local club house and watch in groups, how is that all calculated.

All irish teams in the URC have their games on free TV. Leinster Munster are heading for a 51K sellout this weekend. It's the biggest club game in the world IMAO

Hi Tim. Love your work. Have I missed the Wales World Cup report card?

I'm off up to the Rec next week, we go 3 or 4 times a year. Bath is a great place to watch rugby and the Christmas market being on at the same time just adds to it. However, £71 per adult ticket is outrageous, I'd go more often if it wasn't for that crazy price. Just to put this into context, that's sitting in a temporary stand that is exposed to the elements and I've got my raincoat, hat and gloves ready. I've never seen the place empty or even nearly empty though.

As a New Zealand the passion for rugby is dying off, most people will just tune into a big home game on a saturday night or a world cup knockout, Even as a big sports fan myself I only watch the all blacks in home games and only watched the knockouts of the world cup. Most fans won't even watch super rugby at all, you can see from the attendance stats.

Hi Tim, Something that has not been mentioned is cost. The URC in Ireland is mainly televised on TG4, which is an Irish channel. The game is broadcast in Irish. I think it is the same in Wales, I can't comment on Scotland. The main streaming is on the URC app, but this does not suit everybody. If rivalries are developing it is on these channels. To be honest I would watch Munster, and the rest of the Irish teams play on TG4. But I do know that many people are not that committed. If there is a genuine wish and desire to promote and increase the game, then work needs to be done to broadcast these games in English.I do not know about the rest of the world, but why I would not watch the English premiership is that it's behind a massive paywall and unfortunately I cannot justify the expense. Love your channel and keep working hard. Your friend Keith

Amen. Off course we want to avoid the avoidable injuries (especially head ones) but at the end of the day it is and hopefully will always be a contact sport. The way it is being policed at the moment is a bit ridiculous though and I think that is also why a lot of people are not watching anymore. It is maddening to see some of the smaller collisions get the penalty's they are (as someone who is still playing) it is enough to drive you up the wall. I understand that it might be more physical than it use to be but that is also debatable. As a 41 year old i have played way back when and recently as well. It is harder because it is more professional even at a non processional level (The player are in the gym a lot) but you adapt and it is not just one side in a better condition normally everyone improves and then you can also argue as well that in my playing time some of the harder tackles I received was from persons smaller than I am.

I think the best product is probably French rugby. I would be curious to see what the figures for the NRL are like? As for me thats probably the best product outside of French top 14. Have you seen the adverts for the games they will play in Las Vegas next year? They know what they are, and they know how to market it.

Paywall is an obvious issue, but it's the disjointed rugby calendar that's the problem. TV dominates the schedule so KO times are set for TV and not for supporters. The season is dominated by the Autumn Internationals, the Six Nations, the Lions tours, the World Cup and the European Cup. Premier League Rugby has to be fitted in to these events, when it needs its own defined season.Then you have the cost of match day tickets which are set to discourage away supporters attending, so there is not the atmosphere and match day attendances are lower. Then you have a Premier League that has just lost THREE teams and not been replaced by giving teams like Ealing Trailfinders, Nottingham or the Cornish Pirates an opportunity to take their place. The RFU have no plans to expand the game and work in cahoots with the other Unions to protect their own interests. If the Six Nations goes to pay TV then this downward spiral will continue. There needs to be a stronger Championship Division, with proper two up two down relegation/promotion. Until we can have a game which is represented across the country and represents all parts of the country the game will not grow.

Irish fan living in England here. Have been trying to follow the Irish provinces but can only get highlights on KZfaq which are not that good. I have recently found them on Prime but subscription is £14.99 per month. I’m trying to cut down on bills and not sure I can justify this outlay. I would love to watch more rugby around the whole year if it was more accessible 👍

It’s multi factoral. Paywalls, team support, etc. But also team and individual rivalries, that are marketed. eg Toulon v Sarries Wilkinson v Farrell. Not marketed well but what were the viewing figures. Anecdotally I watched that final with loads of football fans that were motivated by that story.

South Africa is also behind a paywall, DSTV, but World Cup games were shown on the free-to-air channels.

Tickets are too expensive in the Gallagher Premiership. You can’t expect people to spend £40 to stand in the Shed at Gloucester or £60 for a stand without a roof at Bath. Late kick off times in the winter put people off as well, particularly if your nearest club is over an hour away. I watched Cardiff v Scarlets last weekend for half the price of a Premiership game. The 3pm KO meant it was near full. I can’t imagine Scarlets’ next home game at 8pm on a Friday will get even 5,000 at the gate even with the lower ticket price compared to the Premiership

Important Issue and well covered. Fresh off a weekend that produced very poor attendance figures for our local competition (SA). I think we have so much good international rugby the fans run out of steam. Also locally if you a son/ sons playing - school rugby consumes your live/ at least half a year.

Easy answer…..greed. Wages too high. I was a season ticket holder at Bedford Blues until this new season when they increased my season tickets by 15% each. I had just become an OAP but there was no reduction for that event.

@9:46 after watching the World cup I presumed just Australian Rugby had problems. Your summary suggests the French focus on the sizzle, the brutality, the skill, the speed, the battle plan and ignore the pandaverse rabbit hole.

Top 14 is very popular in France

I think it’s the casual watcher effect at the big international games, I’m one myself. Domestic matches hard to find on tv, clashing with other sports I’d rather watch at the same time, conversations and content (that I can see) centres on the international game…when the international games are on…great time slot….that are the “rare occasion”…you plan for it etc etc. I’d also say the international games are a better watch.

All great points Tim, thank you for sharing. We need to celebrate the sport we love and acknowledge that by its very nature, it will never be sanitized. That is exactly why we love to watch it! From a South African perspective talking about the URC specifically: 1. Our best players don't play in our local teams for the most. The Lions have zero current Springboks, the Bulls are immensely erratic, the Sharks are consistently shit, and the Stormers are typically best supported. Apart from Cape Town, you won't get many people attending matches as a result of the poor quality. 2. The URC is only shown on paid-for TV, so 90% of our citizens would not have access. 3. There is not much emotional investment in the competition yet. Compared to Super Rugby at its best, it had the best players in the world and we knew the teams intimately. I don't think South Africans have the same connection to the overseas teams yet, compared to the Crusaders etc. 4. I personally used to love Super 12 - the format was fantastic. Everybody plays everybody, the top four plays semi-finals. When it went to Super 14 it was still ok, because the Bulls were excellent. But after that, it was a mess. This is why Top 14 is thriving: the best players, strength vs strength, no political correctness - just an excellent competition.

You are correct, in NZ Super Rugby, NPC, and 1st 15 rugby is all on Sky, and Sky is a substitute service. Sky has a free to air service that usually shows one delayed match per week during the Super Rugby and NPC seasons and delayed coverage of All Blacks tests, (they did show the RWC semi and final live).

As someone who lives in Bordeaux, I can endorse everything you say about rugby here and enjoyed another of your videos about how well TV money here is spread around the top 2 leagues. They have got it almost all right, except I have to say a Sunday night game starting at 9pm, a terrible idea. Give people a break, especially for spectators who go to games even locals, let alone away supporters, most people and those with kids have to get off to work or school early on Monday and after the Sunday game, we start the week nakered!

Having come from watching national rugby (6 Nations & World Cup) to now watching the Premiership (COYQ!), I don't have the grassroots upbringing or mindset so please forgive me for my ignorance. I know it is often mentioned more competitions/more rugby isn't necessarily a good thing, but I was wondering; in the years between the world cup, why don't we have a European competition (like football's Euro Cup)? It would be great for domestic rugby to gain traction, but to keep the national interest lingering until the next world cup, 4 years is a but of a long wait. I would think it would help elevate the game of the lesser known countries and to make them more seen, as opposed to just being a guest entry for the world cup (I.e. Georgia and Portugal).

I think that some referees are killing the game by being far too technical with the result that the game is stop and start instead of flowing. Last friday evening a woman refeered a game on telivision and she was brilliant with a minimum of whistle blowing with the result that the game flowed.

I think one issue with the Premiership is the number of teams, with only 10 left now many people in the country don't really have a local team to support. I'm from Southampton and a Bath fan but to get to the rec is a 1hr 30min or so train and your in a similar situation for Bristol or much of the London teams. Where as you look at football most cities have decent sized teams to support but down here most people's tangle with rugby ends as soon as you leave school

Its an anti climax after world cup

Being in the U.S. - it's difficult to watch any local rugby live! Rugby isn't a big deal in the U.S. and I can't stand watch football

Physicality, discipline, pressure, the struggle of it all, to use a phrase from video games, "it's a feature not a bug".

For the URC it doesn’t help that only 1 of the 8 teams to make the quarters were either Scottish, Welsh or Italian. As a Munster fan it’s easy to buy in like with really competitive inter pros and trophy aspirations, but if you’re a Cardiff fan it’s difficult to get interested when the quality of performances is poor and the player pool is shrinking