Sorry to hear that they blocked you- that’s shitty

I’ve had nothing but great and responsive customer service, so it’s maybe it’s just inconsistent or better now?

Not only their customer service is substandard, their quality control is abismal… I don’t know who their manufacturer in China could possibly be, but you have greater chances to get a defective unit from them than from a random vendor on ali express… in my opinion the word that better describes TE is scammers, not an exaggeration,

@@aoterouidk, every TE product I bought never broke, over several years of constant use.

I agree with you about Elektron. Mind you they’re not a design company, they’re just focused on electronic music gear. Maybe TE is spreading themselves too thin to really focus on one “group”. It’s very clear that their attention is on the next design and maybe not so much their clientele.

@@LiamKillen Elektron isn't a design company, true, but I think they care about design and aesthetics a lot more than most electronic music gear companies. They have their own aesthetic, and you can definitely tell an "Elektron box" when you see one (and not just because of the company logo on it!). I just feel like Elektron finds a better balance, where things are very much still music-gear-forward, and design serves that end. I don't have my Digitakt and Digitone anymore, but I never once felt they weren't worth the money I paid for them. It honestly makes me laugh to think right now that those two products combined would still come in less than an OP-1 Field. Just an insane realization.

I own an OG op-1 and OP-Z. They are both great products. I also recently got a Digitone Keys. I agree with you, Elektron products are really well designed and build. With TE, I always find myself thinking: « why this feature is missing? ». With Elektron, It’s « Wow it also does this! ». Especially, the Digitone Keys is an amazing instrument.

Best comment ever

Good points

Also calling them a design company feels like letting them off the hook for their steady climb in prices, essentially pricing all their old customers out of buying their products.

@@darkeye79 Yeah, really hard to defend them on the pricing thing. I greatly admire the OP-1, but the current price feels greedy plain and simple.

@@darkeye79 Yeah, agreed on that. I feel crummy for OP-1 fans who really liked the device and wanted to support the product line moving forward, only to essentially be told "That'll be $800 over what you paid for the OG, thankyouverymuch." That's a lot to ask anyone to shell out for a device that basically nobody's favorite artists are actually using to make music. But it's an even bigger punch in the gut for loyal users who want the latest version of the workflow they enjoy.

Don't really agree with that. Design to me means they should be raising the bar for usability and human interaction, things that are really important for devices that are both highly complex but need to feel fun and creative. How many synths do you have where you might think, if only TE had designed this and made it a pleasure to use? That takes a lot of skill and adds to the price though.

😏

Dudes who don’t have a big problem with the price of products they get sent for free?

I’m sorry you had this issue

based on a sample size of 1?

I got an OP-Z for Christmas last year and the double triggers started on day 1 although I wasn’t initially realising it was doing it. It got worse over the year and now the track button is so bad. I have to hold it down and wait for it to stop double triggering. Almost any button will do it t some point. Literally everyone on the forum mentions this problem. Apparently the Electron machines also have this issue. But it’s not worth the £500+ price tag for that reason. It’s useable but painful. *So* many times you lose notes by accident and all the settings fit that trigger. No undo feature. Then the pitch bend is insane how hard you have to press down. Like my finger muscles are in pain afterwards and I’m worried the thing will snap. Also it is banana shaped. It’s one of the first thing I notice about it. I’ve literally never seen a plastic product not be perfectly straight before. It’s really good. But those issues make it actually kind of garbage. But at some point I want to open it up and clean the contacts to see if that helps but honestly I don’t think it would.

The first OP-Z I had lasted about a month before the double triggering made it unusable. Sent off for repair, came back just as bad. Was given a new replacement. It lasted a day before double triggering.

@@floodo1 lol youre ok with spending 2200 and having it be inconsistent quality?

🍻

Yeah they’ve put themselves in that much less attainable position. No worry there’s so many other options

🍻

Yeah that could be it 🤔

They are all bent. It’s a new kind of plastic TE is using which I think is one of a kind. They wanted the exact specific texture. But they are all bent. They also all suffer from double triggers. I don’t believe this guy doesn’t get them.

I don't get double triggers. Why would you think they all get them? There isn't any evidence either way. There would be a lot more outrage on the internet if everyone got them. It only takes 5% of people complaining on the internet to make it feel like everyone has an issue.

I don’t think successful companies ever just say “fuck it” lol

@@LiamKillen Are you kidding "fuck it (and fuck the customer)" is basically the motto of all of today's tech companies, whether they deal in music technology or something else. Why do you think right to repair is such a controversial topic these days? These people don't give a shit about making useful products, they care about their portfolios, their bottom line, and their fancy lunches and dinners.

It’s what they are 🤷‍♂️

Fair enough

Man I’ve heard this too many times

Yes! Computer 1! I mentioned those

Yeah I think there’s something for everyone in the TE universe

@@LiamKillen This guy still promoting TE says all you need to know about his channel.

😂

Boomer Engineering

(spoiled) teenage engineering

It really depends personally I’m really into the digitakt- I think MPC one is also a great unit to come up with a finished product

some really good ones to get going on are imo the novation circuit for performing and playing your stuff and if you like to program your music in a sequencer kind of way then the op-z or dirtywave m8 are super great.

@@Apticx Thanks for the suggestions. I like the sequencer way to make music, so I'll look into those

I guess that’s their vision!

Yeah that would be an expensive buy not to use lol

Me loves it too!

Yeah I mean it’s the same for drums too, really. Although 2k can get you a great vintage Ludwig + the. Some.

Woah great deal :-)

I know that some units are faulty according to the forums- for sure. That being said I’m not going to start speaking on behalf of other people- I can only speak on my own experience with the unit. I know several people who have owned it for a few years with no issues as well.

I'm on my second unit already and both had all the well known problems. Double trigs, got bent after a few months, encoders popping out and so on. And what is worst, no single word from TE about it, no fix, nothing. Oh, and after 5 years with a brand new OP-1, it's so full of problems that I barely use it.

​ @Liam Killen No one is asking you to speak on their behalf, I just mentioned you dont have to be dismissive when talking about actual problems that a lot of users are having with this specific equipment - me included. Just because you didnt experience these problems yourself, it doesnt make it less real (this goes for a lot of other situations in life too) . This is not a made-up issue, and your fortunate good experience (and your friend's experience) with the OP-Z, does not represent the entire user base regarding the built quality (or lack thereof) of this specific product. My issue is that this video seems like it will be a neutral and informative resource, but you are just advertising their products, and downplaying the reality of this specific product (specialy the way you say "so....") as if we were crazy or something.

@@HelloFabs Nah this video is not even pretending to be neutral he starts out admitting he gets gear and they get content. He basically just says "hey you get it, I shill their stuff. They get free advertising, I get to make a living on youtube" Thats how the entire synth nerd influencer space works. Hes not even trying to hide. I want to be mad but how could i be.

Cheers cuckoo!

😏

@@LiamKillen I couldn't resist, sorry. 😄

Yeah they’re not the most durable lil things

Should mention I issued a support ticket within a year of owning it and was told by TE’s official support, that it was normal 🤷‍♂️

Yeah I understand that- sorry to hear it

There was latency but they corrected it with their latest update- I suggest updating! It’s pretty much imperceivable after updating.

Yeah the user experience on these things is completely unique.

I’m a 33 kinda guy

Bro you deserve millions of subscribers like Andrew Huang!

Yeah if you think it’s worth it then pick it up! Simple as that!

I’m willing to bet they make the most of their cheapest item - pocket operators

Also, slapping a label on the clothes is very different from R&D and manufacturing electronic products that have no analogue anywhere else

Fair

Yeah apple’s customer service is second to none

maybe one day that will exist lol

Haha yeah I get that- po 128 can program any note though!

I have heard that their customer service is not the best. Sorry you're going through that.

😏

Don’t see it happening lol

Now I'm praying for them to undercut TE 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅🤣💯💯💯💯🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Lololol

Wait if you’re actually serious e mail me at liam@liamkillen.com

Oh really? Didn’t know that

💰 💰 💰

Yeah it’s true everything went up

They’re focusing on a lot outside the synth world

@@LiamKillen the jump suit made me chuckle a bit on price

I agree- there is better for the price

🤔

I feel you. It’s partly because they’re just more fragile. I feel like they’re more idea sketchers and studio instruments

Yeah it’s not attainable to everyone

@@LiamKillen This is kind of a snotty take, to be honest- especially when you admit at the start of the video that you get all of their products for free.

@@LiamKillen like I said it isnt that the price is an issue, it is before I even get to price teenage engineering stuff just doesnt appeal to me. The Form factor and work flow just dont appeal to me. I understand people who like them but I much prefer other brands offerings.

@@JohnnyTakeAll same

Yeah pixel is a great example

lol!

PO-66!! I mean the OP-Z is an extension of the PO workflow IMO- their quite similar in that way

True!

Yeah for sure

Yeah I mean, in a world with the MPC One, there really is no way a person can rationalize the price of any OP-1 (OG or Field) as not at least majority driven by artificial scarcity and badge/prestige tax.

@@mlhbro *points at dirtywave m8*

@@mlhbro How about they just enjoy using it? Or it’s portable… which an MPC one is not. I sold my Live 2 and Octatrack mk2 and used the money for a Field. It makes music fun again. I was tired of being stuck to a desk, tired of having to name my samples while sampling and projects when I just want to flip on the device and play. If it’s not worth the money to you that fair but people have their own reasons why they buy things. No clue why a lot of you guys claim it’s for prestige or cache… synths get zero pussy, this ain’t about cache lol

High quality? Op-z is probably the worst quality music instrument on the market

Pixel’s free!

They got a bad wrap - I consider them the Walmart of the synth world

Yeah there's no way getting around it...it's expensive AF

Yup

Op1 is the best idea sketch machine I got js

@@LiamKillen Yep I have no probs if it works for you, which means you see the value in it. I would give it a go if it was the same price as an MPC one. I’m not against expensive gear if it offers value to me. EG Check out Chase Bliss CXM 1978 reverb pedal. Well worth the money if reverb is your thing.

Yeah the price is heavy

Def designers first at this point

🤔 that’s weird

I mean I guess it’s a fair take

I respect your take but I dunno I still think that musicians/producers do use TE gear. OP-1 is still one of the best “idea machines”- all the sampling POs I think are also great sampling idea tools. OP-Z is great too.

Yeah, honestly it would be like if Fender only made the Acoustasonic product line (e.g. guitars designed to sit in the background of influencer videos) or something like that. But even in that case, you'd have umpteen other guitar brands to choose from. There is nothing else quite like the OP-1, which sucks because TE seems to only be interested in making it less and less obtainable for ordinary people. Like, I almost am rooting for Behringer to rip off the OP-1 and sell it for half price, if only to see TE's reaction.

@@LiamKillen Very fair - TBH, I don't think people would care this much if TE had never made instruments. To the contrary, I know people who have used all the things you listed and are passionate about them. What stings, I think, is that all the products you listed are in the rearview mirror: OP-1: 2011, PO's 2015-2020, OP-Z 2018. It's a deliberate pivot that seems out of step with their existing customers in favor of, presumably, a shinier and better off clientele.

Got it from oversynth

Op-1 is pretty unique and an amazing tool though

😏

Oh yeah you can go wayyy more capable than the field at that price.

Fair enough!

It’s ddddoooope!

😂

Fair

😢

Yes there’s a lifestyle element to their synth products for sure. Other companies hire them to design units for them, such as: maiku multiplier, Donda stem player (which was never released), Frekvens speakers (with ikea), play date gaming console, pixel in collaboration with Google. I’m sure we’ll see other designs from them as well in the future. So yes, they are DEFINITELY a design company.

@@LiamKillen All lifestyle products. :) I'm just saying, don't mistake the map for the territory. Even McDonalds does "design" work. See, "design" is not about making a fancy high tech gizmo people love. Nor is it about "coming up with great ideas". It's about solving problems and motivating people's behavior. How to get 10,000 people across a bridge twice a day. How to offload manual labor into an automated process. How to bring a vase to market that is both interesting enough to be noticed, yet not fancy enough to be too expensive. How to get people to the moon and back. These are "designs". TE did not approach the "design" of their device the same way Akai, Elektron, Roland, etc would. Instead their design "problem" to solve was: "How to make a device that is highly portable, looks and feels visually like other global leading lifestyle design companies (Apple), and offers just enough features to be seen as fitting a product category, yet maintains some forward facing novelties that set it apart from a market perspective so that it can be priced at the upper price tier, so as to be marketed as a lifestyle product." They never expected to sell these at the scale of Roland. That's the whole strategy of high end lifestyle stuff. And it worked. Many people still think Apple is a computer company, but it's not. Many people think Nike is a shoe company, but it's not. Many people think Monster is a pro-audio cable company, but it's not. And many people think Teenage Engineering is in the audio instrument market, but they are not. Sure, you can use/do all those things with that product, but it's not the point. The point was to get a loyal base of followers that would pay anything for any product they produced, without question, and praise said things loudly. ...and it totally works. :) Seriously though, this is all in fun for me, hope you aren't riled. But do some research into this stuff. It's pretty amazing, and you will be surprised how little people understand the product worlds they actually live in. And they count on us not understanding what's going on. For instance, when you get a product launch with two similar products, but the more expensive one has basically no extra worthwhile features... they never intended anyone to buy the expensive one. It only exists to show you how much "value" there is in the slightly less expansive one. Or the inverse... every buy a car? The base model is 20k and has no features, and the high end one is 35k. But for only 27k you can get the middle model that has all the options other than big rims, leather trim on the doors and a slightly bigger motor. You are supposed to buy the middle one, because you made a market decision based on only the information they gave you. It's a deep well, but super interesting. I seriously encourage you to explore it. It will change your world view.

@@ChristopherOrth There’s a middle version of the OP1? Cool.

p.s. i thought the tx6 was 600 and thought that was waaaaaay overpriced hahaha, THAT THING IS 1200?!!!! what the fffff lolol honestly, you could likely use the zoom h6 with an sp404mk2 and 5 more inputs and a bluetooth speaker and busk and get weird.... ANNNNND get everything stolen, and buy it again, and do it again without even crying (i mean.. of course you would cry if anything got stolen, but i feel like, 500 dollars being stolen would be sad, but like .... JUST that mixer being stolen (easily due to tiny size) would be heart breaking)

Lol

Yeah they've made some very interesting moves for sure lol.

Yup- plus there’s way less information to make any decisions

@@LiamKillen today is the golden age of abundant affordable gear and a plethora of information, tutorials. Comparatively just recently bought a Akai MPC Live 2 and compared its older sibling a Akai S6000, which i bought new for 5600$ in 1999 The power and speed of the Live 2 is staggering , however the interface is somewhat clunky.

OP-1 is used by countless top artists. And I’ve seen POs used in a pro studio for sampling ideas- no joke

There are a lot of big music producers who uses some of their stuff in their pipeline, not sure if calling it just "gadgets" is a fair description. It is very overpriced for what it is, yes, but it has its great capabilities (only if it had a better built quality though..)

@@LiamKillen How many of them got those units comped by the company?

Lol sorry to hear that

Big part of it!

Yeah there’s some truth to what you’re saying for sure

It’s funny though I just bought the RMX-1000 for like 1000 and it does one thing- it’s strictly an FX unit. People say it’s expensive but they don’t completely shit over pioneer as a whole.

It pricey AF

@@LiamKillen indeed, but I feel it's a deep machine and potentials are extremely massive. But, a lot you see is as you said, insta gear people, it's so depressing. They should offer more as in good customer support or support actual musicians, artists who push it to the limits it can go, not these cookie cutter parasites. But, yeah... Anyway Love your channel and content. Best to you

As I mentioned in the video they are a DESIGN company that happens to make synths which is the reason why they get away with charging outrageous prices. Also “product review” in the title is why I reviewed all of their products and classified them as “free/affordable” all the way up to “extremely expensive” categories in the video.

There’s a demographic of hobbyists / pros that actually enjoy + are willing to pay for TE products. My suggestion to you would be to just buy / consume content related to other products instead of wasting your time + energy watching videos about things that you seemingly hate?

@@LiamKillen Oh I'm sorry I found your video and thought it might be interesting and insightful (maybe with insight to something I was overlooking) clicked on it and watched it and then I have a different take on it than you. I seek out information on things. I don't look for an echo chamber. Nowhere did I say there wasn't a demographic willing to pay. Obviously there is, but the existence of a demographic is hardly proof that something isn't expensive for what it is.

@@AveragePicker Theres nothing like the TX-6 though, definitely not the 10 10 bluebox which is basically the same thing but cheaper and better.

Mine actually hasnt bent!

@@LiamKillen Like Yoda said “It will be……” It’s the nature of that type of plastic compared to a Korg Volca for instance. There is a lot of flaw in TE design🥲 Thanks for the video.

Yeah I get that

Welcome

Hence the “pardon my pronunciation” that I captioned in the video

They are certainly one of a kind, that's for sure.

Check out pixel it’s free

they're widely available, and to anyone who wants one. The fact they're relatively expensive doesn't make them elitist.

Just remember to be consistent! You’re basically cutting out most synth content here on KZfaq / the internet in general with that sentiment

@@LiamKillen all youtubers are parasites as far as im concerned. it used to be an honorable space filled with legitimate enthusiasts but now thats been replaced by charlatans trying to make money / buy me a coffee / patreon begging bowl culture..

They’re not a synth company.

@@LiamKillen I agree, the term "lifestyle brand" gets thrown around a lot. They are _also_ a synth company. Unsure we can skirt that.

😏

True

Lol

Yeah I like this take

@@LiamKillen Thanks man. I just think it’s something that gets overlooked a lot. We’re all tech guys here in the electronic music world, and so it’s easy to get distracted by spec sheets and feature lists and this and that. I do it too! However, there’s a reason that everyone from beginners to pros enjoy their products, it’s just that anything above a PO comes with a pro price tag.

TX-6 is a perfect example of this- other companies will copy the design, save shit tons of money there and sell for much less.

They are pioneers of the industry in that way but yes…they are expensive there’s no two ways about it

Sorry people being reasonable annoys you...?

@@AveragePicker People being personally insulted that a company would sell a product for more than they are willing to pay for it annoy me.

@@RedHedDes Personally insulted? I don’t know any other looks at anything overpriced and takes it as a personal insult. I can certainly afford to buy any of it. I just can’t see a reason I should, or why when compared to the rest of the market, their stuff has so much markup on it. I’m not bargain hunting open box Behringer equipment but there seems to be very little reason for cost….unless their trying to take the Ferrari approach to exclusivity. Hence, I clicked and watched hoping for some insight but sorry, got nothing of the sort from it.

😏

There’s for sure an element of that

@@LiamKillen while we're both here id also like to ask you. which reverb pedal would you reccomend for digitone ambience/atmospheric? ive been eyeing bigsky and empress. thx for your input. love ur vids

With the difference that Apple actually does deliver quality and has a decent customer service. is laggy as hell.