Yes thats correct

Not gonna lie, at first I read that as menstrual notation and thought "dang, early musicians really made music according to a woman's cycle, TIL."

@@stuffandsundry Times were *really* different then. - grin -

As Adam Neely put in his video, most people are taught music as the specific style of 18th century Europe, and not as anything relevant for the modern composer. Music education truly needs change right now

Not only that, but in classical music, this kind of "mixed meters" (2+2+2+3 or whatever) simply weren't a thing until the 20th century. Before 1900, all 9/8 classical pieces were 3+3+3, which is why that's how it's traditionally taught. So, in classical circles, 9/8 pretty much always means 3+3+3. The problem arises when classically trained musicians try to explain the concept to people whose main interests aren't in classical music. These classical musicians aren't familiar with pop/folk songs that would use 9/8 in another way, so of course their first explanation is going to be "compound triple meter". That's the 9/8 they are familiar with. Similarly, the "4/4 with an added 8th note" explanation is useless to most classical musicians, because most of the time, that's not how 9/8 is felt in classical, and it's actually going to be counterproductive to try to feel a classical 9/8 piece in that way. A good musician (no matter whether they have a classical, jazz or pop background) will understand that in different styles people do different things, and they won't say something like "9/8 is always compound triple", even if that's the first example of the time signature they are going to give. The problem is, a lot of people who talk about this stuff online aren't really properly educated (or don't have enough understanding of the different context in which you are going to see this time signature). They have heard somewhere that 9/8 is 3+3+3, so they take that as an "objective rule" and don't even consider any other possibilities. A theory book usually has a genre focus, so if a theory book that focuses on classical says that 9/8 is 3+3+3, then that's really not incorrect - this does apply to basically all classical music. You just shouldn't generalize this "rule" to all music - you need to understand the context of the book. Similarly, if a counterpoint book says "avoid parallel fifths", you should understand the context in which that is said, and not try to apply that rule to all music.

That is really funny, normally you'd expect the audience's clapping mistakes to muck things up and not the other way around. Hope that guy put in some practice after that though, pretty embarrassing to get called to play simple odd meter patterns like that and be so lost that the crowd has to bail you out haha. At least it sounds like everyone was having fun though, in the end that's all that matters right?

Are you still Greek?

@@macescoolchannel what kinda question is that? If your born Greek you stay Greek.

@@ethyn I am aware, it's just that I feel sorry for him for having been born under such conditions.

Every culture usually has a link to a very unique pre-modern music that the kids are just born into it. I assume people around the Mediterranean can clap in 9/8 and they don't even know. Indians in their own, black Americans have gospel and blues etc

I second this from Turkey. 9/8 sounds like wedding to me.

thats really interesting. i heard that indian music uses 7/8 a lot which is hard to imagine.

I third this from Greece. 9/8, 7/8, 5/8 is common in Balkan music

@@pankats1222 We called it Zeimbekiko if anyone wants to listen to what it sounds like

I love the balkan 11/8ths as well! Like in Lidijina Igra. So many fun rythms!

16th note syncopation with eighth note triplets (12th notes) layered on top

You could always use Poly-rhythms with one of the rhythms in 4/4, that should certainly prog it up.

Tool - The Pot. I couldn't believe it was 4/4 at first

That's kind of what this video is, although it's just one example: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fc6cf9eVlp_Xqqs.html

simply using odd subdivisions triplets quintuplets septuplets can give that feel switch them in and out and it can sound crazy and all over by just learning to count different subdivisions

I literally can't think of the song in my head as 9/8 which is what is quite funny to me...I always truncate it down to 7/8 because the frenzied rhythm makes me feel like the song wants to hurry along...but 9/8 is slightly delayed from 4/4 so it throws me off and I remember it as a 2 + 2 + 3 pattern

Second that. It's interesting to see the difference in how people from various backgrounds and cultures perceive the same thing with different ways.

Exactly.In my coui Greece is a very common rythm.Even small kids know this kind of rythm.

i came here because i learned a song i like, Τα παιδιά της γειτονιάς σου, uses it

TBH I would count nearly all of these as konnakol but I didn't want to open up that can of worms yet. One day I'll do a video on konnakol syllables and how/why I use them

I love studying konnakol. It's tough, but so rewarding when your brain finally clicks! I agree - it's such a powerful exercise for any musician.

@@samuelconnolly347 😆 yeah, i think the worst part was when it actually clicked, because I had been drilling it so much at that point, that everything I heard (people talking, random noise, literally everything) became a konnakol phrase to my brain, and it actually started to interfere with day to day life. It was hilarious, and really bad at the same time.

Well I went down a nice wikipedia rabbit hole after googling "konnakol"

@@Necrocidal oh noooooo... I’m sorry man, that’s one hairy rabbit hole to get caught up in. Not sure if you know who Matthias Ecklund is, but he has a pretty good basic explanation. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rdKJatWhnt7RYH0.html

And it's so dramatic and big sounding too, who knew you could make a progression that's essentially just major chords sound so ominous and menacing! Really sells the end of the world vibe going on there

Guitars go 4+3+2 and drums go 3+3+3 in some parts.

Genesis seemed to love a bit of 9/8 in their music. Riding the Scree and ...In That Quiet Earth use it too.

From what I know Tony also played a few bars of 7/8 over the 9/8 backing track.

i came to this video bc i’m trying to learn jambi on bass but the time signature was so odd to learn

Like Car Bomb?

Yeah I mention it in the description, it's an unfortunate error that I didn't catch till far too late!

Genius

9/4 is an unusual signature to use. Sure it isn't 4/4 then 5/4?

@@guitar864 Yes

@@guitar864 how much does that distinction even matter? It just depends on how you mentally subdivide the phrase.

@@rome8180 well, yeah - if you divide the phrase then it isn't 9/4. 9 counts of a 4th note per bar is an obsurdly long bar.

Maybe that's the only way to finally have LaBrie fired.

thats the easiest way to digest it for me. its like how 12/8 is just 4/4 with triplets

16th notes would be counted as “1-&-a” in a three-note grouping of 8th note and two 16th notes, which is what he was referring to. He doesn’t like using 1-&-a for a long beat 9/8 beat because to him, that means 8th + two 16th. I agree with you in the sense that I think learning the traditional version first makes more sense. That’s the starting point; then you move to the other variations.

Yep, I could say that the cymbal is playing in 9/4, but I'm really just exploring the options of 9/8 beyond a single measure of it. The rest of my band is clearly thinking about 2 measures of 9/8, and thats how I'd write it. But it's fun to play 9/4 on top as demonstrated!

@@SignalsMusicStudio Either way, I think that the trick of letting a ride or hi-hat play play "straight" over two bars so that it falls on the offbeat half the time is a really neat trick and helps tie things together. I think the first time I heard and reflected on this was in Sting's "I Hung My Head". Great song, btw.

I do mention this on my vid on odd times :)

@@SignalsMusicStudio Oh, cool. I love your videos, you're a great teacher!

Whoever decided to make seven a two-syllable word was definitely not a musician trying to count measures...

Sev or sen. I learned sen but sev seems useful just the same!

Same with LEV for eleven!

PRØG

So Locrian never feels quite truly Locrian to me, just a variant of the "metal scale" (flat 2nd and 5th) that remains in the Aeolian mode.

It's funny cause that song specifically is always played with so much rubato that's very hard for me to hear any metric structure without looking at the sheet music

3 + 3 + 3 like wtf why is no one thinking that

Are you talking about pneuma?

@@ayushverma9769 That particular album overuses 7/8 from what I remember. It wasn't really worth the wait, if I'm honest.

@@ayushverma9769 Ye

There are plenty of bands that make tool look like blink 182 as far as time signatures go. Expand your horizons.

@@dirtpipedan I very much listen to more in variety in terms of metal and technical musicality! I was more or so thinking that a Tool video would be cool!

Altered Beast II is best Altered Beast

King Gizzard uses 9/8 quite a lot. One of their recent songs 'Interior People' is in 9/4, and another one 'Catching Smoke' goes 3 bars of 4/4 and 1 bar of 9/8

Yeah I didn't realize that till I started adding links in the description and couldn't find the original... I did make sure to fix it in the chapter titles.

A measure of 9/8 that is grouped as 9 sixteenth notes then 9 sixteenth notes is also symmetrical, but that grouping is not pleasant for traditional 9/8 since the grouping splits the measure into two even groups instead of three. I don't think symmetry is the key feature here, i believe it's the idea of strict three-per-beat groupings vs strict 2-per-beat groupings, and many compositions revolve around both instead of one.

@@SignalsMusicStudio yeah I've always wondered about subdivisions like that. If we have compound time for triplets we should really have it for other tuplets as well. Following traditional compound notation, that measure of 9/8 should then in fact be 18/16 (which really would however also be measure of 6/4 with triplets in compound meter). This was a headache when I was writing a song with a septuplet swing feel. Notating with tuplets would make it super messy. Since the measures were 4/4 however, the compound time signature following traditional rules was 28/16, most people would look at that and think it's crazy (or just 7/4) but it's really simple 4/4 compound meter.