Ah the days when I tripled the value of my car by putting my road bike on top.

No debate mountain bikes are totally overpriced.

I remember just getting into the bicycle world when my dads brand new carbon fiber trek got rear ended on the back of our SUV. The insurance company looked up the price of every single part of that bike because they couldn't believe it cost so much.

For $18,000 you can have a Specialized Tarmac SL8 pedal road bike or a 215hp BMW S1000RR super bike. This pricing is purely a function of sporting good market pricing vs automotive market pricing. Mfg and delivery costs are not even remotely close for these 2 products.

As a mountain biker myself, I have to say mountain bike companies have gotten extremely greedy especially during covid .

As a cyclist and a lifelong motorcycle rider, there is no way bicycle companies can justify the $7-10k they charge except that there are people with money who are willing to pay it because in their world, spending more money on something than the next guy means something…SMH

The only reason both road and Mountain bicycles have become so expensive is because... ppl keep buying them despite the price. lol

No need to debate, just need to calculate cost of production

That last "It's in neutral" joke floored me. The writers at FortNine always hit

As a former mountain biker for like 10+ years now into motorbikes, this was one of the best pieces of content I’ve ever seen

Back in 1988 I bought a Diamond Back Arrival black and yellow splatter paint for about $1,100 CAD, I still have the bike, and it still turns heads when people look at it, I've never left it out in the rain and when I did take some years off biking it was hug either in my garage or my basement depending where I lived at the time. Now I use it to make runs to the store here in Venezuela... the quality of the build still holding up great...

Bicycle prices have inflated massively in the last 4-5 years. The quality of mountain bike parts has actually gone up a fair bit too, with 4-piston brakes, electronic shifting, etc... all technologies that were nascent WELL BEFORE the inflation skyrocketed, but for consumers were a convenient justification to spend 40% more than they did on their last bike for these next gen upgrades. But I hold that besides incremental geometry changes in the frame (and honestly, it doesn't cost much to R&D frame geos), a late 2018 pre-inflation bike is pretty much identically capable to a 2024 bike, even though the latter will retail for close to TWICE as much. BTW, where did bike companies put all that extra profit (other than in their own pockets)? Into paying off their R&D into e-bikes, and doubling down their investments in e-bike tech.

extremely high priced mountain bikes available during COVID are why I purchased my first dirt bike. Everything seemed like a deal next to a $5,000 pedal machine.

You’re actually insane if you think 7500 for a bicycle is a fair price

Haven’t seen a vid from you in a while but damn they are refreshing. Funny, meticulously informative and feels more honest than 99% of anyone.

So the bicycle argument is convincing yourself you didn't get scammed. A pro with a Walmart bike will smash you with your 8k bike.

This is so funny. I remember doing this calculation about four years ago when I was looking to buy a mountain bike for my local downhill trails in sunny old Englandshire... I literally could not get my head around the equivalence of cost between mountain bikes and motorcycles. I realised that I could actually hire a 7K plus downhill mountain bike for £70 for day at the weekend. I worked out I would need to go mountain biking every weekend for 2 years before it would equate to the retail cost of the bike. Anyway, long story short, I bought a motorcycle. ;O)

I thought my parents were crazy when they bought 2 E-Bikes that each cost the same as I paid for my F800GS… and I honestly still think they’re crazy

Nothing can justify the cost of those bicycles. HE even admitted it unknowingly by saying "They are worth what you're willing to pay" meaning that the intrinsic value is NOT worth the price

I’ve owned three mountain bikes over 2k and one over 10k. The difference? A couple grams and design style. As a matter of fact, my ibis mojo carbon was the first and only bike I owned for less than a year before selling it and when I did, I bought a better bike for less and a motorcycle. I now own a Deviate Claymore which outclasses the ibis all day long and a KLR 650 which can carry my Claymore not only to the trails but through them as well.

Being both a mtb user and dual sport bike rider I found this video extremely relatable and funny. Bought a used canyon spectral carbon recently at a very good price and still costs more than what I can get for my 2001 Transalp lol

Ryan it's time to make a video on Chinese motorcycles.

What I love about pedal bikes is their accessibility. You don’t need to by a thousand dollar bike, anyone can learn how to work on a bike and parts are readily accessible, meaning you can get what you can afford and build out the kind of bike that best suits your needs

This was a great video, the evaluation from differing markets was very interesting.

“Look at all those colors.” That one’s never gonna get old!

Seeing Yoann Barelli collaborate with FortNine is the crossover I didn't know I needed.

The amount of engineering that goes into mountain bike is minuscule as compared to a motorcycle

So happy I found this channel! I’ve binge watched about 20 videos and I don’t even ride motorbikes. Love the Analytics. 😊

The transition from aluminum/steel frames to carbon fibre appeared to give the manufacturers a free pass to jack the prices on everything. There are so many sub-categories of mtn bikes now that even industry insiders have a hard time explaining them. I ride sportbikes, mtn bikes, and road bikes so I have no dog in this fight, just money exiting my wallet. 😄

No one will never convince me that mtb’s are not a rip off and I own 5, and 3 motorbikes.

I'm just now finding out about this channel. You guys are great. I like what you're doing and how you all are doing it. I'm subbing!

Can't believe you got Johan to be in this. He's such a legend. Great vid. And I love both sports

Very few people are buying $8k MTB. As a serious hobbyist, you can get by with something around $2k for a decent hardtail, and $3k for a full sus. I am speaking about trail, rather than esoteric disciplines in MTB because as soon as you start specializing in enduro, XC, DH, you are going in "professional" territory. This video compares an average street bike, so it should compare to an average MTB.

As a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist, I just think bicycles are ridiculously overpriced. I am 58, a bicycle for a pro on the "Tour de France" is just as useful to me as a Ninja H2R is. On my bicycle, I just aspire to do some cardio workout, have a smooth ride, enjoy the scenery and keep up with my friends in the same age bracket. I believe that the gain in performance gets less and less as you increase the price. My bicycle is a second hand aluminum Wilier Triestina, good enough for me. A few seconds might make all the difference between winning and losing to a pro, none whatsoever to me. And the real stiff carbon frame will exhaust me hurt my old joints.

It really was a deep yet fun video. Especially the debating part 👍

Because people pay it, that's all there is to it. If people will pay more for my product, I will charge more and people are gonna be happy anyways.

So the conclusion is really that each of these two-wheelers is being developed with different approaches. The bicycle is a combo of lower volume, customisation and charging what their customers will pay. The motorcycle is higher volume, no customisation and actually trying to get as low a price point as possible. It's just a coincidence that they both end up at the same price point, and so people (me included) can't believe they have the same value

While all the points made here are valid, I think the most important point is where those two bikes fall in their relative performance ranges. The KTM is pretty close to entry-level pricing and performance for a street bike, and while the Norco is not at the top, it's definitely within Sight range of it. I personally have a ~$5k motorcycle and a ~$5-700 bike, which feels like a much more reasonable comparison. Both are a step above entry level with a couple of points of upgrades on them, and they're both solidly fine for me.

The argument would be lost for bikes if you would compare with a mass produced ebike with the same price and intented use. Not to mention Motorcycle manufacturers engineer and produce much more parts than bike manufacturers who basically only make the frame and the assembly (if they don't outsource it to Asia

This is the most entertaining and educational video i have seen in such a long time !

Ive been a MTB/DH/trials guy my whole life and over the years watching pedal bikes raise in cost to insane levels. Last year I was looking at a new Trek Slash and Remedy for my new resort and DH rig. When the shop told me the price along with at least a year wait time, I went over to the motorcycle dealership and left with a new dual sport. The motorcycle was far less than the Trek and with the money I saved I used that to buy all new moto gear. After 20+ years in cycling they priced me out so I went moto. I will never buy a new bicycle ever again, plus a used bicycle has no resale value whatsoever. And I found a cherry Beta 250 trials moto for under 1k and runs perfectly- and that was still less than a used MTB. Its comical.

Great video! The surprise Yoann Barelli appearance was icing on the cake. Since F9 sells MTB gear I hope you guys do more MTB related content.

One of my favorite FortNine episodes to date!

this video is so good on many levels.... sub+ btw neutral in the end killed me:D:D:D:D

Just cyclist here: With bikes The more you pay the less bike you get- literally. It is lighter and more nimble. However there is a sweet spot much much lower price range. If you go past it however you start getting frequent technical issues because components are build to price and not to last. So ride what you can afford and I hope you can afford at least the sweet spot :)

I bought my CBR 600RR when prices were pretty cheap... but, my motorcycle was cheaper than my MTB. And, as someone who does both, I find the price of MTB's insane and not worth it.

as someone getting into e motorcycles from e bikes this has answered a lot of questions about that pricing comparison. awesome video

Something that took a team of engineers, hundreds of machinists, and years to design can cost almost the same as something that welder can make in his garage.

The best reason for any price is that it is what people are willing to pay, and frequently do so for brand names instead of actual value. Ryan nailed it when he said they charge what customers are willing to pay and the answer of scale to that has little to do with it.

Interesting. I do think the "market" is the biggest issue with the inflated prices though. Even with breaktrough tech, you used to be able to get a race-ready downhill bike for 4-5K. Similar bikes in modern tech that is still primarily tension-driven cables is somehow pushing 12K.

The only talking point that is is necessary is margins. How much does it cost to create a mountain vs a motorcycle and how much do they profit. If margins are huge on one, then the manufacturer is gouging and thus overpriced.

🙏 Same goes when choosing Running Shoes. We can still enjoy a Good Running Shoes with more affordable prices to select those in the Middle-Range ones! 😊🙏

I think a better comparison would be with motocross or enduro bikes which are also updated every one or two years and are just a couple of grand away from full competition bikes.

I’d love to see an itemized cost breakdown for the mountain bike; still seems like a ripoff even with greater performance and choice (ex: work boots come in ~18 sizes, 3 safety options, and 2 colors and rarely crack a grand even for the good stuff). Most outdoor products suffer from a pretty hefty yuppie markup, as well as very limited production runs and rapid new product development (lots of choices and output but effectively no economy of scale, whose cost the yuppie market will also bear)

Really dig the format

I was hoping for a breakdown of the industry. How can anybody defend the horrendous bike priced nowadays?

I myself am an avid Mountain Biker, and work in a bike shop. The modern bike industry is a weird one to say the least, some examples the bike brand we sell almost all of the bikes the whole sale cost is almost half of the retail cost, parts from the big manufacturers are also around the 30% to 50% markup as I have been observing. Just my bike alone when I bought it in January it retailed for $5,000 and I got it with employee discount for $2,234.91 with a $10 donation to a bike charity the company runs. Another one I upgraded my front fork to the factory/ultimate version, a $1,100 ish fork retail for $584 from one of our distributors

It happened during all the covid bullshit. Outdoor activities away from other became popular. MTB riding became popular, specially among people with money. This drove up prices and a lot of people buy bikes now for status.

This Video was brought to you by some overpriced Mountainbike company. Thanks for your sponsorship!

Wrong comparison! Compare the mountain bike to a motocross bike (similar discipline) and mountain bikes are way overpriced

Paying over $7K for a mountain bike is like everyone paying a $100K for a new pickup truck. If you're dumb enough to spend it, they'll keep making it and keep charging it.

I maintain that mountain bikes are GROSSLY overpriced because the push pedal bike club have turned into an IDENTITY rather than people buying a product. Overpaying for bike parts and being gaslit into needing every last "innovation" is what theyve allowed bike companies to push on them to stay a part of the club. Wont catch me dead paying motorbike prices for a mountain bike.

I don't have a motorbike yet, I do ride a road bike regularly, but I had to sub because your videos are damn well done and entertaining!

God your humor is right on the edge of cringe. The timing and the flow does not leave much space for awkwardness and therefore cringe does not set in, because you are back on topic straight away. I have seen so many youtubers ruin content by taking too much time on jokes while you have mastered the art and have respect for viewers time, even those that are here for the information not entertainment. Thank you so much, @FortNine

I think the point about buying a high level mountain bike because it needs to be durable and reliable....is kind of a weak point. They make incredibly solid mountain bikes for 1000 dollars (especially on the used market) and a non professional rider will ride just as poorly on it as an 8000 bike. I could understand if they were talking about protective equipment like shin guards or helmets or something...you know ACTUAL insurance to protect one's body.

As a road cyclist, mountain biker, dirt biker, sport bike user, and cruiser user, this video was hilarious and shows how both complexity and simplicity fit each hobby.

I blame corporate greed. Vitus is my proof of this. They're so affordable by comparison to other brands yet are easily of excellent quality and specs. It's something we've seen in many things. You're now paying for a brand name.

As someone who rides both this is a great video and pretty accurate!

Awesome seeing Yoann Barelli in a F9 video. Not sure i love the comparison of an enthusiast bike vs an entry level motorcycle though. In both sports, you can pay a lot for marginal gains. My mtb cost $3300.

Great video! I think MTB’s are grossly overpriced. One consideration not pointed out is the severe depreciation suffered by MTB’s. My Santa Cruz Blur dropped 50% in one year. Why? The new model had flavor of the year suspension upgrades. I still have it and it still works fine. The difference is you can get a pre owned MTB for a fraction of the MSRP . It’s the engine on top that makes the difference. By far motorcycles deliver the most value. Best!

That was really well done and funny!!

to be fair, that bicycle guy was carrying a good 20 lbs of fat around his waist. Instead of paying $6000 more for a bicycle that weighs 20 lbs less, he could just lose the weight himself. So the reason reason why amateur cyclists pay $7-8000 for bicycle from a boutique, rather than $500 for one from Walmart is because they are delusional enough to believe that they are in good enough physical condition and skilled enough a rider to truly appreciate the difference. They aren't. These are the same people who buy 70K Teslas. Last year I lost all my extra weight and now I have a washboard stomach. I notice that my old CCM 40 lb steel frame bike now performs like a high end 15 lb bike. Fancy that.

same reason a phone or coffee maker cost as much as a motorcycle....... people have more money than sense

Awesome video! By the way I generally agree that bikes are ridiculously overpriced. Until I realized that my bicycling needs are met by a lovely Marin DSX did I just bought for $775 shipped. The thing about actual mountain biking, is that it's pretty radical what people are doing with their bikes these days. I mean it's just extreme, the speeds that they're going and the terrain they're covering, is amazing. Whether they are crawling at walking speed over boulders and fallen trees, or speeding down the side of a mountain and jumping off a cliff, it's insane that the bikes hold up. Granted, none of that riding interests me. But I can still sit back and awe of it. I prefer full rigid bikes, chromoly, BMX style bars, extra large frames so I'm in the bike not over the bike, and I like riding on super smooth trails in nature. Imagine a 10 mi BMX track in the middle of a forest. I don't want to be vibrating my 50 plus year old frame into pieces, hell I didn't even want to do that when I was a kid. I'm all about speed and smoothness within reason, and a little bit of air here and there. I blame my childhood BMX background. As for motorcycles they get stupid expensive too, the last time I looked at a Gold Wing or a Harley full dresser they were half the cost of a little fixer upper shack of a house that I bought in 2010, in Texas. I put in 20 grand and some sweat equity into that house, I'm renting it out to a buddy currently, but I'll probably retire there. It's all about perspective.

I’m an engineer by trade. Personally, the R&D on the various models presented seems minimal. Material cost , excluding the carbon , is relatively cheap. Production is minimal, assembly is simple and quick. Overall seems overpriced paying 8K for a bicycle. I see a lot of of comments stating “quality materials and / or products” to manufacture the bicycles. Am I missing something here? But a good gearbox is way more expensive and difficult to produce that a few offset sprockets. But I guess this is every sport. Once you in , it becomes about what you own. Buy the name play the game

7k for a bike is insane to me. I've owned over 15 cars in my life and none of them were over 8k lmao.

There is a really good point being made at the end of the video about motorcycle ergonomics. It's crazy that every bike doesnt have at least some small level of seat and handlebar adjustabilty as a standard feature or as part of dealer setup.

I'd like to thank the academy for allowing me to be this early

High quality writing. Great video!

One of the bigger problems here is bike PARTS also got crazy expensive. If you're not so well off financially and depend on a working bike to get you to placed (that's common in Europe, especially for youths) you might get into situations were you can't afford replacement parts fitting the group/system you have on your bike and in the case of brakes or drivetrain this can very quickly become a massive hazard to your life.

For dirt/dual sport/street motorcycles, entry level starts around $4-6k USD, mid tier is $12-13k, and upper tier can be anywhere from $17k to $40k+ (stock). My first Mountain bike cost me $500 USD, my mid level neuron is $3k, and we all know that high end mountain and e-mtbs are going to be between $8-12k, but not much more. Road bikes are more or less the same. The used market is another story. As someone who owns a road bike (Madone), trail bike (Neuron), and a street motorcycle (r6), I see this comparison really lacks a true apples to apples comparison of price relative to lineup position. We are comparing a beginner motorcycle to a high spec downhill oriented mountain bike. A duke 390 is the second to last at the bottom of that category of KTM's street line up, whereas that Norco is mid-upper tier. The dentist thats going to spend $8k+ USD on a mountain bike probably isn't looking at a duke 390, he's going to get a GS type maybe the Duke 1290, which is $17k. The quintessential dentist/ weekend warrior motorcycle is the BMW GS,. is a $20k bike.

I had no idea that bicycles were that expensive. I will now light myself on fire.

The cycling industry is really ripping us off. I mean how many moving parts is in a motor bike compared to a bicycle , and they still can't make a round bottom bracket

I've been bicycling for half a century. I generally buy the best bike I can, because cheap bikes are awful to work on, don't function well after the first few rides, and don't last. The great thing about bicycles, is you only need a new one about every 20-30 years. So, whatever you pay becomes almost incidental if you ride it regularly. I used to buy new motorcycles, but found I couldn't work on them back in the 90s. Now I buy old motorcycles, and refurbish them. I currently have a '77 Honda CT90 that I upgraded to a newer motor. It works, and I can work on it. All that said, the price of bicycles and motorcycles is insane. I still miss my $200 1979 Univega Viva Sport, my $500 1988 Wicked Fat Chance, and my $500 1974 Hodaka Dirt Squirt.

I had a Norco Shogun BMX bike as a young teen (bought with my own money). I really liked it, for the week I had it. I was selling raffle tickets for a charity fundraiser and when I left it alone for 5 minutes in a townhouse complex, someone stole it and I never saw it again. I replaced with a Supercycle bike that was about $100 and had that thing for a decade. Never locked up, just sitting in the back yard, ended up donating it to Goodwill when it was just taking up space and wasn't getting used.

My neighbor here in NZ has a $19000 carbon fibre E-bike that he bought used for about $12000. The depreciation on these outpace motorcycle depreciation I would think. Probably due to the tech advances noted in the video. I could get a 2 year old KTM 890 right now for $19K with less than 10K kms. Like someone else said here, it's about status.

I really enjoy the video, very fun!!

In Norway people tend to put their two mountain bikes on the back of a medium priced SUV to feel just a little bit closer to the top 1%

As a mountain biker i found this video very enjoyable! Lots of these things are what id consider pretty big problems with the mtb and even bicycle industry as a whole.

I am a motorcycle rider, and an acoustic mtb rider. It really ticks me off on the prices of good mtb, and downhill e-bikes. You can even buy new motorcycles cheaper than a lot of preowned Ebikes.

the mountain bike arguements werent that solid

"It's in Neutral" had me dy*ng...:D

I laughed way to hard at him pedaling backwards then says "its in neutral!"

As a lifelong motorcycle and MTB enthusiast, AND someone that has raced both ( going back to the days of NORBA in the early 90s ) I'm going to call BS on nearly everything NORCO guy said. Most of those "advancements" are minor and barely noticeable to most riders, and are the equivalent of BNG. suspension tech is marginal at best when compared to a motorcycle because the forces it has to act against are often counter acted by the forces generated by the rider. so it has ALWAY been a struggle to figure out how to actually make the boingers boing without turning them into a pogo stick while under power (pedaling). this has seen so many iterations of tech and design to try to solve this problem, its impossible to list them all. shifting is done by the mostly unchanged basic design as it has been since the 1960. yes there have been refinements, both good and bad and sometimes downright gimicky. But at its core, its the same as its always been. Braking has improved, tires have gotten better, there have been some improvements in construction. frame geometry is ever evolving but its usually highly specialized for what that particular bike was meant to do. you arent going to want to ride a DH or FR bike XC or on the road, and vice versa. lets face it, all the REAL advancements that were game changers are generally written off because they cost too much to make actually justifying the costs. The truth is, people want pro level bicycles because they want to feel like they are special or superior. The reality is any mid tier rider/racer, could mop the floor with the average weekend warrior on their top tier bike while riding a mid level bike. If people really want to be faster better and safer riders, train. spending 8 grand on a bike wont get you there. As Ryan pointed out, for average use for motorcycle consumers, you don't need all the top tier gizmos. and even having them, most cant tell the difference anyway.

90% of Norco's market is North Americans pretending to be Yoann Barelli (a french dude) is pretty funny.

Something about paying the same price for transportation that requires peddling and takes longer to get from a to b just doesn't sit right with me.

Lets be honest, yes mtb has exotic parts which are for weight reductions but parts are overpriced really. Btw im a mtb biker and motorcycle rider as daily commute.

I have the “why is your bicycle so expensive?” discussion several times a year. Now I have a slickly produced video with a great cameo to do the talking for me. Thanks for another banger, fortnine! Side note: I was wondering if Ryan ever got back to it after falling badly in that downhill race. Looks like he just got a nice new Sight!

"Shhh, let it happen. Just let it happen". Take THAT one outta context 😂

"Where's the size, like- how do I know what size to get?" "Yeah."