Good one 😂

Had a good laugh, thank you

And what would you advise to do/how make nerf? Make Reno a 1 mana hero card that remove 1 random minoin and1 board space?

@@impkiller5932 Make it remove all but one minion on BOTH sides. Could be random, could be the middle-most one, could the the one with the higher attack (like "Enter the Colosseum" - remember that card?)

@@impkiller5932 Making Reno just destroy enemy minions would probably work. No poof, no board limitation. Just blow up minions. So DR's still trigger and the opponent can rebuild the board after. That would make it feel less awful to play against. If you really wanted to gut the card and make it more accurate to Reno's voice line, destroy all minions. Wipe both sides of the board. So it's a 1v1 duel, the enemy hero vs Reno. This way Reno isn't a "Win more" type of card but a hard reset where it's better when you're behind and don't lose as much.

That isn't true. If you nerf Reno to only removing half or 1/3 of their creatures, his use would radically drop. I could think of 10+ nerf that would annihilate its play %

​@@jasonjanisewski78I guess what he meant is, nerfing the cost will never work because the card is playable at any cost. If they removed the "lock the board for a turn" and made Reno 9 mana it would be totally balanced out. But Blizzard is against text changes for some reason

@@jasonjanisewski78yeah and while you’re at it with those genius changes let’s just remove effects of minions. All vanilla minions now. No mana cheat. No titans or hero cards. Let’s play classic hearthstone all day. Idiot.

@@TalkingWithBob guess 48% winrate is still too high for some of yall. And the reason we play it is because it is fun for us control players. Not because it wins us games. If we wanted to win at all cost we would just hop on on the paladin and druid train.

Reno board wipe is fine what makes the card unbalanced is giving you one minion slot for next turn at turn 10 that is game winning effect. Imo 2 slots would be really strong and 3 slots would make it balanced

Storm wind expansion was still worse.

⁠@@remyllebeau77Mh. I think Stormwind was worse to play, but the difference is, I had some hope for the game still. There was so much push back, so many content creators leaving, that I knew that Blizzard had to change it. And I played a lot during Stormwind because I knew it’d get better. And it did! Sunkencity, Murder at Castle Nathria, Titans amazing sets. I’m not playing at all right now. Not even daily quests. I don’t see the meta getting better next expansion. How am I supposed to be excited when the decks and classes that suck right now got the worst cards and Pain Warlock and Handbuff Pally (two of the best decks in the game) are getting some of the most busted support tools ever. That Sandcastle Legendary in Pally, the location’s attack increases based off the minion’s attack. And Pally has multiple instants of Charge. And we can’t interact with locations. And they gave Pally access to Windfury on Charge minions. Yup. So fun. Don’t even have to play the game next expansion to know that that deck will be good. Okay, well. Maybe it gets nerfed, there is some hope there…. And nope. The next balance patch is apparently delayed, so anything busted in the first like two or so weeks of the expansion is there to stay. Not that nerfs will help - see video this comment is attached to. And I can’t even be hopeful that some new deck emerges that overtakes Pally and Warlock, because the designs this set are just as unfun as last. Titans, SunkenCity, Murder at Castle Nathria - Best expansions ever and I’ve been playing since TGT. They had their issues, but it was always “they nerf this deck, the metas going to be awesome” and then it happened and it was awesome. Ever since Badlands it’s been like “they nerf this horrid deck, this even more horrid deck will take its place, they nerf that even more horrid deck, this even worse deck will that its place. Once all three decks are nerfed, the first horrid deck will come back, nerf that one again, and the second even more horrid deck will be back. Nerf those two? Guess who is back? That’s right- the worse deck again!” And none of those three decks ever left Tier 2 even with nerfs. That never felt like a problem in other sets outside of Badlands onwards and an honorable mention to Stormwind. And it makes for a bad experience, because it feels hopeless, like nothing can ever get better.

@@Alloran9466 Yeah, I can see that it is frustrating.

As Control player it is the other way around for me. If i dont have Board wipe or massive control advantage every turn i just lost the game. too much damage and too big stats to do anything else.

I feel that. As someone who (desperately) plays for tempo, it's no longer a matter of waiting to bait out their answer. You just play the card ASAP and straight-up hope they don't have it no matter what the odds. Probably one of the reasons tempo playstyles are dead, it's a lot more tempting to go hyper aggro so you get more of that ASAP factor.

@@MikkoLehtovirta Exactly, I don't understand why everyone just plays aggro and don't like to play fun decks anymore, which is the point of a game, to have fun.

@@Amghannam To answer that, is harder than it seems...but I believe it has something to do with dopamine...in that the majority of players who play hearthstone these days, are addicts, specifically dopamine addicts...and when you play more cards, and repeat, over and over again, you get more of a high over time, then when you have to sit and think....it's the iphone generation...the puppet generation...if you try to speak to people about this issue, they'll give a thoughtless lazy answer, a meme, etc...this is the state of the world right now....people do not understand their own actions, and because of this, much of the gaming industry has become netdecking braindead min-maxers...and it's kind of sad honestly

What? The whole point of the video was that stats and mana nerfs mean nothing to most cards...

@@BamaLam4 That was just for specific cards that are powerful because of what they do, he was talking about making changes for the whole game.

This is the worst idea I've ever read in the comments.

@@BamaLam4 It is, but a large amount of minions these days have premium stats, and effects come out incredibly quickly. Even if you change card texts, you still have 30 health in the end. I am not disputing that the card text changes are important, but the problems they cause might be less exacerbated if the cards they cheat out/enable are less powerful overall. And aggro needs to chill in general.

So basically return hs into prehistoric unfun mess, thank god you are not really influence decision making😂

You could guarantee never having a Druid Mirror match by playing a different class lol

@@jasonjanisewski78 😐 🙄 😐 Listen here you little sh-

@@jasonjanisewski78 then I will be stomped by Druids which is even less fun. Now at least I can play dice rolling and have 50% win rate. 😂

I had a lot of fun with triple win condition Druid with Denathrius years ago. But I'd have to craft 2 or 3 legendary cards to make the current druid, and I just can't be bothered.

I mean your also picking druid every single time lol

There is a big difference between "playable in almost any deck" and "every deck is worse if they don't run this."

@@franklinnartz1381just craft the card 😂

The issue with Zilliax is that we aren't seeing lots of different combinations in lots of different decks. We're seeing 2 combinations. Pylon Module + Ticking Module in aggro decks. Virus Module + Perfect Module in control decks. It's not popular because of its versatility. It's popular because these 2 combinations are so powerful. Like, if these 2 combinations were nerfed to the ground the card would be nearly unplayed (Besides maybe Perfect Module + Twin Module in control decks again)

Why are you sorry lol

@@angelozheng7112 Why though? If every deck is objectively better off running Zilliax, you might as well just give it to everyone for free and limit decks to 29 cards after auto including it. It wouldn't change a thing.

I've been saying that for a long time. We need to be able to ban fighting certain classes. So whatever is worst to play against, you don't have to face it anymore. If that means everybody bans druids, then druids won't get any games anymore unless it's a mirror match, unless they also ban druid and they get no games. :D

A weekly ban list would be a great idea. This would allow for more variety in the meta.

Blizzard hasn't been doing very well in recent years, it's quite possible that they are saving money and don't have a testing team at all.

Yea, I feel like Zilliax is a bad example for this. That card was created to be able to be in as many decks as possible.

Yeah, it's a braindead take to say zilliax is in too many decks.. that's his purpose..

Yes, except the issue is the modules that are played the most by far got nerfed and yet are still played a lot

It's not 30 cards in one with regards to anything that is talked about in the video though. 30 cards in one is a nice little factoid meme that has nothing to do with balance complaints, inclusion complaints, power level complaints, etc. With regards to those things, zilliaxs is absolutely a problem and it could be two cards in one or 100,000 cards in one and that wouldn't change the issue. You are technically correct while actually saying nothing about the discussion in the video....

I feel that. Basically a 'start of opponent's turn' effect for me.

Helya really isn’t that bad tbh. The other “rest of game cards” can be tough, especially Brann.

@@duke45fan that effect was on a 10 drop before. Granted, mill strats were easier then with druid having togwaggle to swap the deck and cheap cards to make you draw your deck. And the fact that board dump is out of control doesnt do heliya any favours. But it is definatly power creep beyond belief.

its has to be hard, because theres counter play you can do for a lot of them, brann could be 10 mana and it would still see play, because it still wins the control matchup, especially with fizzle to copy gas they would have to hit a bunch of druid cards like: change the druid nest to no reduction make titans unable to be copied randomly from hand or deck (so priest cant just get a bunch of copies of them) boomkin to gain instead of steal, or deathrattle give your opponent 2 of your mana crystals slip splash make it a 3 mana 1/3 deathrattle get an empty mana crystal nestmatron refreshes 2 mana crystals fye loses lifesteal spinetail goes to 4 damage thirsty drifter goes to a 6 mana 2/6 boomboss tnt destroy a random card from either hand, deck, or field barrels of sludge go back to 2 mana deal 3 sparkling phial damages a minion only painter's virture loses lifesteal zarimi goes to 9 and cannot be generated randomly reno hero power is now 3 mana

Plus it seems they don't look at the ripple effect that happens from the first nerfs and nerf the next oppressive thing that was being held down by the first thing.

I think Zeddy said it well: THe problem is the card text. A card like Brann or Reno is still just as broken on a higher manacost. Sure, they will lose win/playrate due to the nerfs(which is a good thing), but they would need to nerf effects.. and well, nerfing effects oftentimes means reworking a card - and they seem VERY hesitant to do that. Zilliax, for example, should get a rework on his cost structure and current unkilliax is just such a perfect keyword combination that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Take this as a learning for cards like this, rework the most problematic modules(Like Ticking and Toxic) and we are good. But instead, they go for what I would call the "winrate nerf". Yeah, winrate will now go down, possibly playrate, too. Doesnt fix any problems, though.

Reno (and highlander warrior in particular) did hurt the meta by being so efficient against other late game strategies though

@@PenguinWithInternetAccess Though that's because of Brann and Boomboss. ALL late game strategies had access to Unkilliax, Yogg and Reno. It's just that Brann enabled Warrior to have more ways to flood the board with threats than a single Reno could address. While Boomboss simply deleted so many cards that nothing could compete in the late game because they lose so many answers AND start fatiguing so much earlier.

@@tarille1043 Reno does limit you to highlander so he's not available to all late game strategies, but yeah brann and boomboss are the biggest offenders

Trust me, if you liked playing slow value decks like me, reno warrior was the worst to play against, with priest coming in as a close second. Zero tools to counter reno and brann effects unless you played DK and then that was nerfed.

@@remyllebeau77 I fully believe you since im struggling with control dk in 2024. But i got used to have 10 cards in hand and burn bombs. Dont kill ziliax til i get ro yog it. All that

@@Igbyb That is too hard to answer a board full of warrior minions, and still fill your own hand every turn. That type of playstyle that makes you not play what you want to play because you have to keep your hand full AND risk burning your own cards should never have happened.

there used to be tradeoff in hearthstone, and a bit of thought...sadly, that is gone, and now it's just sit there, put cards on the board, and wait for random shit to happen if you ask how devs could do this, i think there's really only one logical answer... they don't give a sh i t

That's why I played Triple win condition Druid. Take my Denathrius, and I could still win. I loved beating people after they played Theo and took something.

Yeah, Theotar was one of those cards you had to run not because you wanted to but because you had to.

I kinda liked Theo because he stopped meta from going to whoever drew the win con first wins meta.

At some point, they simply began to introduce mechanics that were not originally inherent to Hearthstone. I can understand cards like Theotar, Boom Boss or Dirty Rat in MTG, because there is the possibility of counteraction. In Hearthstone, such cards always feel unfair. It’s idiotic when they break your entire deck and waste your time just by pulling out a key card at random.

It's more to do with agency. In other games, you can interact on your opponents turn. In Yu-Gi-Oh you have Trap cards. In MTG you have instants (And Flash). In both games you also have agency in regards to blocking. In YGO you cannot attack face if there's a monster in play so you have agency via putting creatures in play to soak attacks. In MTG you decide blockers entirely the attacker can only choose what creatures attack and whether they attack the player, Planeswalker or Battle. In Hearthstone, the best you have is Secrets but they're limited in what classes can use them (Also, they're often tuned to being really annoying to deal with). This is why original Hearthstone was more focused on stats and board presence. The way to implement agency in Hearthstone is by making the board significant, you play stats, the opponent can trade into it or play their own stats/taunt. Gameplay revolves around trading well and using Taunts and healing to push things into your favor (Imagine Priest's entire identity not being completely useless!), both players get to interact and instant effects are rarer and more costly (Remember back when "Destroy a minion" spells were 6+ mana cost instead of these days where they can cost as little as 1 mana and have additional effects...) The board has been rendered nigh useless in recent years though via everything having Rush or Battlecry. So you play stats and the opponent instantly removes it with Rush/Battlecry/Spell. So unless you cheat out massive stats that's difficult to remove the board is irrelevant.

@@tarille1043 "in MTG the defended chooses a blocker" That sounds reallt F-ing annoying, speaking as someone who never got into MTG.

@@robertlupa8273 Not really. It's quite interesting. It means that you can't just SMOrc and point creatures at face all day. You need to have ways to bypass or prevent blocking to consistently hit face. This can be either due to having a lot of stats so it's hard to have things survive blocking or effects that bypass blockers (Like Flying which can only be blocked by creatures with Flying or Reach or Trample that makes overkill damage hit through blockers) Even in MTGA a digital format it's not bothersome to have a player assign blockers whenever you want to attack.

@@tarille1043 I agree with almost all of what you said, but the topic of agency(which is a big design headache in HS, as you correctly pointed out) doesn't really have much to do with the state of disruption in hearthstone. To illustrate that~ even if you were to heavily increase the amount of agency, the state of disruption is not really changed at all. Its still the same, with singular disruption effects - like Rat/Theotar/Overdrawing etc. - having the potential of winning the game on the spot - which is much, much more rare in other cardgames. You could add effects like reno or priest removal into the mix: The kind of removals that basically ignore card text and thus shatter entire strategies built around cards(I guess thats why the new WL legendary vona is so broken - cause oftentimes, ourobos will just get answered with one of the aforementioned removals).

@@tarille1043 Just gonna add that the game before now was a lot about managing your resources ( unless you played aggro ). Decks did not have draw engines like today. You played 1-2 cards most of the time while trying to waste the opponents resources. Now you dump 5-10 per turn depending on what class you are and still have a full hand.

those card werent nerfed, most tech cards never got nerfed, they just rotated is all, but the other problem is that you generally have enough room to run tech cards and you dont really want to run them either because a lot of them dont do enough to be meaningful in situations they are not counter to be worth running

@@nuhrii3449 Yes, Yogg is a rare exception where you were seeing the BS often enough to warrant a tech card.

@@synchronium24 its not really much a tech card as it is neutral aoe and removal, tech cards are like hungry crab, bad luck albatross and snakeoil salesman

@@nuhrii3449 It's true Yogg doesn't fit the normal definition of a tech card, but it's playrate skyrocketed when Unkilliax was terrorizing the meta. It's general use case didn't matter that much until the need arose to counter a single meta-warping card.

@@synchronium24 well its not a tech card, its just not good at one thing and that thing alone, its just good in general, also everyone got it the miniset so its easily accessible in a pretty good set, the currently the main abusers of ziliax are warrior and druid for situations where that yog matters, rogue can do it too but theyd rather spend the stuff on drilly and paladin has too many problem cards that it doesnt really matter, same with priest. you see seagiant and stormwind champion ziliax in hunter and that just depends on if you have the aoes to clear constantly

I'd kill to go against anything other than druids and paladins with the same exact busted ass decks. They all have the same 30 cards, I lose on turn 7 usually or miraculously survive and get lucky because they don't draw one of their 10 win conditions, and I still end up tilted because it's such a boring and uninteractive meta

That means they need to buff the other combinations, and still maybe nerf the main ones. Unkilliax wouldn't be so effective if it didn't give as much healing. The problem is when nerfs hurt the other combinations.

@@remyllebeau77 Honestly, they could do with reworking most of the modules. There's too much overlap in the role they provide. Like, Haywire, Power and Twin modules are all just "Big Stat Bomb". Ticking and Virus are "Enabler" ones that make other modules function by either cheating the card out or making it hard to deal with. Pylon and Recursive give the card some actual functional difference. One makes it into a board buff, the other gives late game sustain via avoiding Fatigue. While Perfect is just a bunch of very good keywords that you slap on to anything when you don't have another use to get. It leads to there being far fewer combinations when you just pick the best ones available because they do such similar things. Hence, we just see Ticking + Pylon or Perfect + Virus (Previously Perfect + Twin)

@@tarille1043 Yeah

Trust me, you don’t want less nerfs/balance changes. The meta would get stale and you would probably quit playing

​@@cluelessmango768People keep saying this but when Ben Brode was the lead of hearthstone and there weren't many balance changes, people DID stay. The game was pretty consistently popular back then which condraticts your point. Since he left it's been downhill from there

​@@tomekk.1889Dont worry, plenty of people absolutely quit the game during the Undertaker meta while Brode kept going "No but srsly meta will solve it! trust me guys!"

@@tomekk.1889 I mean sure, but there are additional reasons why people kept playing then: -especially in the beginning the game felt fresh and new, so despite undertaker becoming a menace, people still wanted to play the game. -additionally to that, people were still figuring out what the best way to play was. -the power level of expansions back in the day was often weaker, which meant even if a card was overperforming, it was doing so by less than they do today. -the game was less quick; you didn’t just die in 1 or 2 key turns, instead your opponent generally chipped away at your health and in a world with far less health restoration that meant you eventually just died. -there were no/far less tools around telling people what deck is the best to play. You generally saw more people experimenting with making decks for themselves to see what works and what doesn’t.

@@tomekk.1889 Yeah, one of the main things about the Ben Brode era, was that cards were designed with the lack of balance changes in mind. There were FAR fewer outliers in power back then because they actually tested things and held back on powercreep (TGT was intentionally underpowered because they overestimated the value of Inspire for example) The switch to trigger-happy nerfing has meant they are more careless with design because they think "Oh, if it's stupid and broken, we'll just nerf it later!" so we get more swingy cards that are horrendously unfun to face. Which is exacerbated by their moronic patch cadence, where all their patches are at predetermined times. So when something is broken people are stuck with it until the predetermined patch time comes along and they address it (Unlike you know, every other game that will nerf broken things when they appear and so they make patches around reasons to make a patch)

I still want to have 40 cards in the deck, and more hero health.

No, just wait until next expansion. Packs are worth less the older the expansion is. Open new packs and craft Zillax later.

Shaman is still fun to play. Although it isn't as good as top classes.

i think you simply dont play other card games if you think "once you use them, you lose them." is real. In both ygo and pokemon your discard pile essentially becomes a resource pile that you can pull from in a wide variety of different ways.

@@scooter9537 I've been playing Magic for 20 years and I've seen my fair share of recursive strategies. If you are such an experienced player, you ought to know the difference between having a discard pile or graveyard that can be interacted with and what Hearthstone has in its place. In addition, other card games don't manifest other random cards in your hand from thin air. Once you play against a deck, you know what you should expect. Good luck with that in Hearthstone. So, before you jump ahead and criticize someone for not having card game experience, take a couple of minutes to think whether you have an actual argument or you are just being an idiot.

@@Izelor oh i thought of it and it and it didnt help it from being incredibly stupid

@@scooter9537 I am terribly sorry. I didn't know.

The issue isn't necessarily the "Discover" mechanic itself. But more it's overall ubiquity. Whenever they don't have an idea for a card, they just slap Discover on it and call it a day. Or if they're designing Mage cards, they just stick it on literally everything first and then design cards around it... The mechanic itself can be fine. It's a better version of the previous "Random" as it provides more consistency (And maintains class cohesion due to not being able to discover other class cards). It's just used WAY too much. So much "Created by" nonsense, even in Arena almost all my games were not against the opponent's actual deck, but against all the cards they discovered instead... Not quite as bad as during Rise of Shadows, where it was tons of Lackeys creating cards that create Lackeys that create cards that create Lackeys that create cards... But still obnoxiously high amounts of discover.