bad design= no one wants to play it if its not broken

I was so dumb that I thought this was a Vars II video

HSR content💀

so you're supporting gambling?

Something to tell you why everyone play ZERI

fr frr

preach!

And has a cd just as slow

Not incorrect

E is the slow and R is the slowst

That sounds like the drugs she peddles in lore, lol.

Truee. Ult has soo much potential but it just fails by a few inches. If it was longer or it dealt damage on its own it could be better

@skojuzija even low damage would open options, liandry ult with anti healing so they kill each other faster 😭

She was given so much play potential that they had to gimp everything to uselessness for her to be balanced.

I agree with everything said by vars and other players. That said I do tend to play renata semi often, and I’m not a particularly good player and my win rate is at 70%. The champion hasn’t really disappointed me other than it’s a bit boring to play her

If you value your life.

😢🎉🎉🎉🎉

GlASSc

Step aside, worm!

if you’re nasty

Not to mention her E doesn't even feel good.

Her ap ratios are truly ass to make those abilities feel impactful, you Q as karma and watch the enemy lose half their hp bar but E as Renata and you tickle them

She does have a fair bit of agency vs weaker matchups because of her q and poke if you go cheap shot and shield bash. She's basically a budget hook champ that then thrives in the all in battle that ensues after the hook.

She's still broken, it's just most of the player base is bad.

@@wooaahh23 it’s not even that she’s inherently bad, it’s that she’s feels awful to play. Her W and R make her strong by themselves, but maybe Riot should consider taking some power away from those abilities to make a well rounded champion who actually has a player base.

You could say that about a lot of enchanter supports, though. Where's the synergy in Lulu's kit, or Janna's, or Nami's? At least with Renata's kit you could Q two enemies together, E to slow them both and R to berserk them while they can't get out of the way for a pretty simple combo. You're probably never going to actually pull that off in a real game, what with all the blinks/dashes the enemies have to avoid your ult, but it's technically possible.

@@kevingriffith6011Nani’s kit has no synergy?

@@KuroKamii94 Hmm, I dunno. Yeah, you can bubble into ult or ult into bubble, and your passive procs off of all your spells, but none of her abilities really get any better because of any of her other abilities from what I'm seeing. Nothing like Soraka's Q giving her the health she needs to donate with her own healing ability, or Blitzcrank/Leona hook setting them up for a stun. I guess it depends on what you specifically define as synergy, too.

@@kevingriffith6011 Idk i kinda think most enchanters kits feel pretty synergistic. everything in janna's kit is defensively minded and is built around keeping people from jumping on you or your team. Lulu's EQ is like the definition of synergy, and her W and E being able to be cast on allies and enemies to do different things kind of ties them together. Her ult kinda stands out on its own, but its an ult so I think thats fine. Soraka's synergy is pretty obvious and her only standout really being E, but its a pretty unique ability and benefits from Q slow. I would say Renata does kinda generally not synergize with herself too well, since she is a unique enchanter/catcher hybrid sorta similar to Nami. I think Nami does it a little better because she is just less situational, but their kits provide somewhat similar things (cc on Q, damage + heal/shield ability, buff button, and long range CC super ultimate). I wouldn't really say that makes Renata like not cohesive in any way though. She still feels like a complete champion, she just tends to only really shine when her team knows how to play with her and in the situations where her tools are incredibly effective. She is like a more niche Nami in practice IMO. Higher highs, but lower lows.

That's my biggest issue with her too. You don't really have a follow-up to any of her abilities. Isolated an enemy with Q? Great, now you can't do anything, especially since E and R are supposed to be used on crowds. Buffed your ally with W? I guess you could also shield them, but the shield amount is miniscule. I feel like she isn't good at anything.

She feels like a Tank stuck in an Enchantress' role. Overall very awkward.

Yeah no shit

Gigachad league player picks champions based on how cool they look and makes them work in the gigachad lane(top)

Jesus judt do Renata adc, her %health actually works well with the right items, can 3 shot a malphite. You need someone with you otherwise your damge falls off.

support top can work for certain champs. Nautilus top has some crazy dueling potential in the early game, and by the time your damage starts falling off you'll have enough items to be an unkillable tank applying cc in team fights without a care.

Trolling hard af

well honestly i think renata is the only enchanter that actually takes any braincells. I say this as a taric player.

I promised myself to boost Renata's winrate that every time i am gonna get hit by her ult ill pop everything to boost me. Ghost? Now on cooldown, Steroid Ult? Using it, Any form of AA enhancer? I will get the +12 from my ally. Tenacity? Now i am alergic to it.

i feel you, but when you get ahead she is just toxic lmao, i love this

​@@YanYan-zu8dcrespectable move.

Renata suffers from overbalancing. Her kit would be broken in theory but they nerfed everything to the max which Is why She suffers Her abilities barely have any synergy. She needs a full rework

i think if you cast it behind anything it will not even reach XD You really need flash to make it work the fullest

@@koiboi3851 no. playing fog of war is what makes a good renata vs bad renata. also dont use it to engage, wait for them to come to you

yea but that's it. If you read the situation wrong you fuck your team, basically.

One of my favorite ways to use it is by ulting as counter engage. Renata has to stand behind her team so counterengaging with R is pretty simple, it's similar to Xayah R really. Yeah it's slow but if enemies are coming towards you they can't escape. I'm not a renata player just a casual enjoyer so yeah that's just how I do it. Fog of war plays are pretty sick too

@@tainadeoliveira Yep, counter engage is its most useful use!

It's because her passive, THAT passive It's unironically the best support passive in the whole game

@@fabioviti7384 they can nerf her passive and allocate the power to the rest of her kit

Unfortunately with how much she's used in pro play it's really hard to make any changes on her to make her feel better and do better without making her broke in pro play. I think riot just needs to rework this one.

For her ult, it would either be faster projectile speed or a little bit larger width. Her E should have a quicker projectile speed, but her Q needs to be a little bit wider. Other than that, everything else feels perfect.

Honestly, the changes i would make for her is to increase the projectile speed of her q, e and ult, increase the range of her e, make the width of her ult a bit wider like you said, and of she puts w on you, there's either a voice line or some type of more of effect on screen that basically tells you to get yo ass back in the damn fight

and all of cooldowns are too high. all of them 15 secs+ until 18 lvl they re still high, 10+ sec cooldown and her kits speed is too slow, movement slow af. its hurt team in end game. she become useless in middle game

@@duderpeace Honestly, kinda forgot about how long her cool downs are. The cool down on w makes sense because of the impact it can have though

I think it’s so dumb that her ult can be cleansed or gone by tenacity and it is so useless early anyway so it shouldn’t have less berserk time in early r point levels (also slow as hell you need flash to make it work a bit)

She will get a midscope update at some point

Man for soloq just pick lux and spam ur spells. Always works XD most braindead strat that actually works in soloq XD

Renatas ability to be proactive compared to other meta picks is severely lacking though, nami is better on that front, and rakan is probably the best for it atm if you're looking at enchanteresque. Rell obviously being the premier pick for proactive gameplay from support rn.

Can definitely confirm. the games where I do really well are the ones where I stare down the map and run at the enemy jungle and start a fiesta around first scuttle. then shove bot recall roam. freeze bot wait for gank -> shove roam -> repeat. The worst you can do is stay in lane forever. you get outpoked by mage supports and lose trades vs tank engages. play making is definitely a strength of her. That said - she plays more like a fiddle sticks punishing poor vision control and positional mistakes / greedy engages. rather than an enchanter support. And I don't think anyone is better at that than her. but She is a shitty laner. she has strong lvl 1->5. But lvl 6 her ult just doesn't cut it and that si simply because it is exponentially anti-snyergistic with the flow of battle. Not only is the duration shorter: it's on an insanely long cooldown and people don't even have their mythic yet which means auto attack damage isn't there yet. So at best its an aoe stun with no damage :( what you can do however and that makes her really great vs tank supports: build tank and harass enemy adc from range. short trading E -> auto shield bash with them is guaranteed to come out in your favour. and if enemy tank engages you -> you can peel with Q and your adc can go ham on them. which is why I think she's great pre lvl 6. Why early roaming is probably a wincon for her. however in the lategame Renata just absolutely loves a good samira / yone / yi / yasuo / twitch. It should be obvious why. But the value she brings for them is insane. They literately want everything her kit has to offer.

​@@Morningstar787I shit on Lux with renata tho

Also the fact that the adc has to be able to make the best use of her abilities, which sadly most don’t.

I'd say it's the other way around. They dropped the ball with her fantasy. I feel like Renata's design is a mess both visually and thematically. To start, she is supposed to be an egotistical "drug lord" commander type, with a similar energy as Swain. While both of them are just "old humans", Swain walks with purpose, has a big black cape covering his demonic arm and has an overall interesting silhouette, all skills are "raven" themed with red and black contrast and all come from his same arm. Renata on the other hand, has a boring, emotionless walking animation, her skill cast animations are also almost non-existent, and the color scheme does not convey any sort of alchemical "poison", "gas" or "steroid" other than her R, they are pink and blue (???). Her skills have little to no sound feedback either, other than R. I didn't forget the weird floating bot or whatever that is, that casts half her skills - but that's how it feels, almost like it isn't there, completely irrelevant to the champions visual and gameplay identity. Orianna's ball has more personality than that thing. And from a gameplay perspective, it also seems like the devs spent all their creativity in the W and R and forgot about the rest of the kit. P, Q and E are so uninteresting, unoriginal that they could fit (and they do) in any other champion. W and R on the other hand represent her actual "identity" as a support with dangerous potential to turn a good engagement from your team into a bad one, through the power of drugs and betrayal. The 5 skills really don't fit together very well, thematically. Going back to Orianna's ball, since they gave Renata a bot that casts skills and her identity is to put others in front to die for her, why not also copy the ball's mechanics: Renata can use W to attach her bot to an allied champion (no ground targeting like Ori. Include minions maybe?). She can then reactivate W on the same champ to make it defy death or on another champion to swap the bot around. Skills are cast from the bot, not from Renata. That way, she will thematically fit better as a "commander" type champ that likes to sit on the back watching other do her bidding while she controls the battlefield from afar. This also improves her Q and E design's of being too reliant on best case scenario positioning compared to other similar skills.

@@voidgods I guess you don't really understand Renata's character if you think she's supposed to be an egoist. Renata's far from being egoistic, she's a good person with PTSD after losing her parents due to Piltover's corporation's attack on their lab and now she wants vengeance and she's willing to do anything to achieve her goal. After losing her parents she's decided that doing people a favour all the time by helping them for free will only create situations when she's gonna be used by other people. Her walking animation is supposed to be emotionless, confident and disrespectful. Just because in your mind an "alchemist" archetype is supposed to use poisons, it doesn't mean that Renata is supposed to use them. She's an owner of a renowned pharmaceutical company, so that makes sense that she's using something more refined and elegant than just straight up toxins (like Singed).

@@voidgods The color scheme makes sense if you watched arcane. Shimmer (the drug) is pink/purple-ish, so her chemical being in that color scheme (even though it isn't stated that she is using shimmer) adds up.

@@voidgods Of course she's bad at being "the alchemist" or "the drug lord" or "the commander", it's not her character. Her character is "the ruthless CEO" willing to go far to gather power and willing to use that power to go far. She uses chemicals because she's from Zaun, and in Zaun power takes the form of chemicals. It could have been anything else if she came from elsewhere, but her character only makes sense from Zaun. She's not a commander : she's never been at a war that wasn't corporate, she doesn't value loyalty and has no ideal for others to rally around. She's not after physical might and deadliness : she values money, influence and connections. Attaching her bot to an ally ? Why the hell would she do that ? It is HERS, for her security and convenience as the VIP, because in the end she is a civilian in the middle of a battle. And there is no way she'd lend it to some disposable pawn/peasant. This is not comparable to Orianna moving her ball to an ally, but more like asking Ezreal to give his gauntlet to someone more competent

you do the flash ult into perfect position?

Yeah, most people actually just don't know how to use the champion, and don't try to: they think she's a Nami with a funky hook.

yea shes really powerful in the right hands. build all active items and then u can protect anyone and everyone @@felipecouto1102

She doesn't need a rework. All she needs is a 15-20% movement speed increase on her abilities :D

I agree with you, especially with the R part

More reactive and defensive, I think that is like playing shaco AP - where you need to wait for people to attack you. I think we need somewhat another initiator in a team with Renata to make her better in CC and abilities to work

yes and no, it would be a hindrance most of the time ngl. sure you're guaranteed to hit an enemy and therefor might resurrect but it's also just as likely to pick one that isnt feasible to kill in time and therefor just being an annoyance. could possibly do it so it targeted the lowest hp one or something but that also brings the issue of "is the lowest hp one the best one to pick off?" you could be in a situation where the higher hp one is still killable and way more of a threat and instead of taking care of that you've just been forced to remove a essentially non-issue champ

also, a taunt would remove the ability to use anything but autos, which sure most ADCs can deal with however there are non adcs in your team aswell and even adcs sometimes need to use abilities.

If it jsut punt you in auto attack stake vs lowest hero in range that might be good. And it would only be a simple attack command wich can easily be overwritten

I think they should double down on her passive. Have it interact with her kit more, I think it would make her much more enjoyable. I think about 99% of players don't even know what her passive does, and it's the most fun part of her kit.

The Pyke syndrome

​@@fishraposo7192they actually used to on release, but they nerfed that

​@@deonm4759Renata has only ever activated her passive through basic attacks. Nothing in her patch history shows her abilities have ever applied it.

That is the point to make But goddamn stacking is so bad, don't do that in a middle of a fight for a little shield

It was more about the laning phase (mentioned at 14:01 ) because Renata doesn't have to stand behind ADC to shield. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably even possible to shield your ADC behind you.

@@PurpleNut Yeah, I got it the first time. The problem with the little AOE around her... It's little. Like you need to huddle together.

@@chargoal_games Should just work like Yasuo windwall, that spawns a few dozen (45?) units behind Yasuo and travels forward over its duration. This means Yas can theoretically block a skillshot from BEHIND himself with the wall if he casts it in the opposite direction; likewise it would allow Glasc to shield behind herself at whatever the hitbox of the missile is. Or just a simple 300 unit pulse on cast similar to its collision aoe

​@@Nazuiko I mean, it makes sense as the bot is shooting the missiles

Literally mother af

thats not correct, if you make the kill before you die you life, unles you have a status effect on you then you should clense it a other way... kinda get gud situation, altho it is hard to notice you have the buff on you

As a renata main myself, if u die after the w runs out its usually the Renata's fault. Shpuld always be able to time the w with death unless something very niche happens.

@csababobalo8692 if you kill before death, then you enter zombie, and oh wait there's no one else to kill or there's no way to kill another person in 2 seconds and you still die.

​@csababobalo8692 they mean if you kill the enemies, then die to their ignite or the auto they launched before death... then you enter into the 3 second pre-death state and die because you already killed all avaliable enemies. Which punishes you for using the skill how it was intended, to dive in and knife fight to the death, and worse, you are punished _for succeeding_ too well.

@@Wuuj_ the skill has a huge AS buff. Not using your W in case your allies ever get in the blink of death is also keeping them from dealing as much damage as they could've if you used it sooner. Sure it was "her fault" since the adc would be alive had she held it a while longer, but the enemy might not have even died had she not used it the moment she did. The skill is designed in a way that makes you feel like you did something wrong regardless of the choices you make or the overall outcome unless it all goes absolutely in your favor...

I agreed - we usually play Renata, Zilean, Senna, Rakan, Sona...but I guess a good thing about Renata and Zil's low pick-rate is no one knows how to play against them We once had a trAshe (crap Ashe adc) so we played Senna, aced it, got a penta and dominated. If you want damage play Senna, Sona or Pyke. If you want cc play Rakan or Zilean. If you want one not known for damage but the truest support of them all without being boring or braindead like Yuumi, play Renata

This is why we need more bans

love Shaco, Rammus, Nunu, Ivern and now loving Renata, guess we are the same ;)

They advertised her as a 'dark enchanter' and instead you get: A hook, insanely useless revive steroid on a 25sec cd, a shield that requires the moon/stars to line up with trash ap ratio, an ult slower than me graduating college that lasts for not even an entire second while giving NO boosts to your allies. A passive that means you have to stay up close in a fight to get any value from it- AUTOS ON AN ENCHANTER LEL I was so pissed when i saw her kit after following all the teasers and hints :(

@@skylerfreeman1173 enchanters have felt meh for awhile now. The archetype needs some help.

@@fadeddragon123 enchanters are really strong for the longest time, idk what you mean.

@@DoopIiss haven’t been able to make sona or karma work in years now.

Have her Q stun on towers is more fair than the walls. At least then the opposing 1v1 or 2v1 can have some counterplay

I HATE how true the W part is, i W my 5/0 kaisa in lane and she just Runs away from the enemy and its so frustrating cause the cd is so long that means i wasted a huge cd on someone who doesnt know how to use it

Build solari. Shurelya is only decent in proplay (sometimes) because tempo is everything but solari gives much better stats and a better active

And radiant is low value cause of the long r cd

1000000000%

Yeah I agree, it feels more like swain e but you choose the direction

Ebb and Flow is better in the neutral game, as a poke tool and is more consistently effective. Loyalty Program has a higher ceiling but is way harder to execute that ceiling

@@arcanegale285 maybe although I find ebb and flow to have major mana issues

@@vcrypt8048 yes and no, enough mana regen items just stops that problem

Played some Renata when it came out. Her ult always seemed good, but has that same problem what Maokai got after he received his current R. It was way too slow and you was able to walk it out. Same goes for Renata if you don't cast it from standing in the enemy's face or out of vision, there is simply way too much mobility in the game to dodge it. Enemies start to hit each other sound cool, but only usefull when you hit the adc, Yas, Yone Irelia, or Belveth. Hitting enemies like enemy Control mage support doesn't bring any value for the berserk part. That extra 150 dmg what they will deal from 2 auto attack won't change the outcome of the fight, and as current things stands adc will take cleanse the ult becomes basically useless. Agree with what you said about Q and E. I would add that you can use W to boost your adc's dmg if you play on a lane where there is no threath of dieing in 2v2 and you saw enemy jg on the other isde of the map.

I do have a couple possible counters as well. In the video they talk about the engage aspect of her q in respect to hook supports, where it generally is the worst, and talk about how, in a game where you would want it for peel, a peel ability such as janna q is much higher value. There aren't really enough scenarios where both the engage and peel are needed in a game for this to make her q that much more impactful than a standard peel or engage ability. For her w, the attack speed/move speed buff is also more necessary than you think, because without it, you are saying that the difference in lane between fights has to be just barely in favor of enemy, so they are low when your ally dies, even though you are playing down one ability, so the stat buff is really important for lane function and trades, especially since she doesn't have any other good consistent sustain for her teammate. Also, if you are saying it is mainly just saved for the rez, then you are saying is another contingent ability. For her to find value off of arguably her most impactful ability, her carries have to, focused, they have to die, the fight has to be close enough for her ally to finish off the enemy, and the enemy can have a good escape/immunity spell/ability/ or item. It's a lot of conditions to put on such an important ability, which is why the attack/move speed is so important to it, and why the rez doesn't turn it into an ability that's not very niche. The slow is nice on the e, but in reality, it gets most of it's value in lane. For setting up abilities, it still isn't strong enough to be good into high mobility engage comps, because their dashes and movement + high burst usually either makes it so the slow doesn't hit them, doesn't affect them, or they have already finished their combos in the time it takes for her very long e/q cast time, or e/r meanwhile, she would be neglecting casting w, which is usually more important into these comps. Into front to back, usually she is just hitting immobile frontline and doesn't need the slow to begin with, and into high ranged poke, she is at too much risk of poke/being chunked to walk up for e and normally just plays around carry to drop w/r around. Also, the cast time makes it easy to dodge at those distances. When it comes to peeling for ganks, mostly her q and w and r are more impactful, because the e slow doesn't do much to prevent the dashes or long ranged cc of most junglers. For the r, as a peel tool, I agree it's nice, but the cast time still does mean it struggles into assassins that peel characters are usually picked for, it only really shines when playing stand your ground into front to back engage, which isn't that many games. As for engage, as you seem to kind of agree, it's only really effective in lane, with flash, and with bush prio and with the element of surprise. If you are looking for a character to help play engage, there are MUCH more consistent and reliable engages, that can play with equal bush prio, without flash, without the element of surprise, and are useful as a primary engage ALL game, so there's not much of a reason to pick renata for engage. and for the stopwatch play, it's not really consistent enough or useful enough to really change anything. It means they have to be focusing you over your carries, which usually either means you mispositioned, your carry is afk, or the enemies are already getting less value, because of bad focus. It only really works when teams full commit onto you. You only have stopwatch once per game and it doesn't always get value, so it's only effective once, and you aren't using your w on your carry, which also isn't great. Also, I kind of disagree with the passive. It's damage is so impactful in lane and can singlehandedly win trades/fights plus it's super consistent. It's one of the only things that makes up for how inconsistent most of her kit is in lane. Of course, I could also be wrong, I just liked the idea of discussing and giving my thoughts :) curious whether you agree or disagree.

This is the crux of my issues with her. I love playing her and she’s my main but this so strongly is felt every time I play her. If her e and q either were longer range, not multifaceted aoes, or were lingering effects rather than skill shots, that would fix so much of her issues imo, as would giving her passive auto increased range. I don’t even mind her moves being slow or slowed down, requiring more set up, but they should at least have better positional synergy and match her intended thematic appeal more

his point about E is just plain wrong. the projectile goes around renata before going forward, so being next to the adc also shield them and you don't need to stay behind them

Many high skill Champions are played a lot. ‏that's not it (why ‏no one plays) champions just don't fil rewarding ‏for the skill necessary

Renata GILF

if you watch the video , he explains that the champion is better in team play

He just got big buff in 13.20 so let's see if what happens first

also I maybe use runannes sometimes in that build to apply the passive to more people >.>