Compare to the shit we have to deal with now, ZSS getting nerfed was unjustified

You could've talked about the fact that she's the only character that can't fastfall neutral airdodge, if she does, she get slower. Great video overall!

"she's a hybrid between too many things" True to series lore then

You can see just how much a 2 frame start up can cost someone in the meta

Would love to see why nobody plays Meta Knight. Abadango is basically the only rep for the character at top level, and it’s be interesting to analyze his shortcomings since they aren’t obvious on paper. I think that’s why people think of him as a secret high tier.

I think another interesting point is that her moves just don’t work sometimes. If I had a nickle for every time someone has fallen out of fair, up smash, or up b I’d be the new Jeff bezos. Even at 8:42 there is a clip of boost kick completely whiffing a standing still Roy at point blank. That level of inconsistency turns off potential new zss players.

I love how Vars is able to manage 3 channels, each with good quality and in depth analysis. I play all 3 games (League, Smash (semi-competitively), and Genshin), yet still learn new things and open my mind to ideas I would never think of

I think its not just the nerfs but also the fact that players are much cleaner and more knowledgeable now so its even harder for her to get what she wants. You KNOW she wants you to neutral get up at ledge to get a down smash, you KNOW she wants nair flip kick at what percents, and people are much more effective at dealing with flip kick now as well. That move is still incredible but people used to hella overrate it and now I see people punish it a lot more and be a lot less afraid of it in general, which prob also has to do with the bury not lasting as long. Also just straight up her moves do not work properly a good portion of the time. The amount of times people have fallen out of fair or up smash or boost kick or even up tilt is insane to me, no other character imo has the hitbox issues she does. And on top of that shes very light so she explodes easily. Shes super hard to hit dont get me wrong, but once you hit her she can just die, flip kick being a "get out of disadvantage free" argument is somewhat of a myth at this point imo. People just didnt know how to deal with it effectively in the beginning but now if you havent caught on to how to punish it, its literally your fault at this point. I also agree with what Muteace said in his video that her wins in neutral typically get her middling rewards unless you go fuckin ultra instinct and read every decision your opponent makes in their disadvantage. Shes my favorite character in the game and I will always play her but it absolutely sucks that playing her is very frustrating and feels not worth it in a bracket setting. Insane to me that this game will give you characters like Rob and Pikachu and NEVER nerf them, but nerf ZSS?? Like what?? What about Joker my dudes?? That eiha/eigaon nerf was not enough imo, and I main Joker, but his movement combined with his neutral/combo game is OP imo. (the gun nerf was needed tho that shit was busted) Anyway, I love ZSS :) I still think she is the coolest character in the game and I will continue to play her and mald that she isnt better :)

We all laughed at Marss as he uttered the words "zss sux". But now look who's laughing. Everyone. Everyone is laughing. We can now definitively say "zss sux"

It's a shame nobody plays her that much anymore. She's an interesting character to watch.

Another thing that deters people from playing her is her moves not working. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal until recently when i was in a last hit against a mario and they fell out of my side B, up smash, and fair all of which would have killed if they had connected properly which is a problem that i dont think applies to any other character

My three mains made it to the list! Sheik, ZSS, and Joker

The fact that they're willing to release characters like Steve, Kazuya and Aegis, characters who can just seem to do it all, while simultaneously taking away things that made basegame characters good and fun, will never not make me mad. Especially this far into the game's life. I wish they would give Mewtwo, Sheik, and ZSS a lot of their tools and frame data back from Smash 4 in some kind of finality balance patch along with a myriad of other changes. I'd especially love for K. Rool's reflector drawback to be nerfed and for Ridley to get buffed since they were some of the most anticipated and hyped up characters in the game's history. Characters who are fun to play get punished for being fun meanwhile DLC characters are borderline pay-to-win in the most literal way possible. With that being said, I think every DLC should get some kind of unfair buff if that's the direction they want to keep the game in. Banjo, Plant, and Hero should be just as viable for the same $5, right? idk. It's just crazy to me how "everyone is here" but only ~30% are viable aside from niche matchups. Look at the tier list at 9:00 and remember that Pikachu and Rob have never been nerfed. Wild to me. idk. I'm just mad because I put in the effort to get good with ZSS in Smash 4 without relying on the down throw-up air-up B combo. Learned the character, matchups, neutral, etc but now all my past time feels wasted because you have to play at 100% and never miss a beat with her interactions but the payout is so lackluster compared to what kind of mileage so many other characters get with the same effort. I picked up Pikachu as a secondary early on in the game's life but it's just not the same. Nowhere near as fun to play as ZSS was. She's still alright against bigger characters I'll see sometimes so that they don't fall out of her attacks, like that up B vs Roy at 8:40, but nowhere near as viable as I think she should be. Even in a vacuum without my character bias in it, I think a lot of the nerfs across a lot of characters are not justified anymore considering what the DLC characters are capable of. But that argument holds no weight anymore since Nintendo told us to our face that the game is finished I guess.

When explaining her archetype, she kind of also has a sonic archetype, she seems to have some run, flip out and reset neutral

Fighting a ZSS main as Greninja is the most fun i'll ever have playing Smash. It always ends up turning into a Dragon Ball Z Fight

On the one hand, having different top tiers makes things interesting cuz now we get Palu and Wario and Ike and all that. On the other, ZSS was still a fun character to play and to watch. For all of that to be taken away feels like that same “gotta break their legs” mentality from Smash 4. While more subtle, it still begs the question if it was needed

Yes, I've waited for this video, you've now covered my main, my secondary and my tertiary

I think a cool inversion of this kind of video would be "why more people should play x character"

they did this character so dirty. Japan's lame campy meta was way too influential in this situation. even I used to play this character and don't anymore after the nerfs

I think a “why no one plays Lucas” would be cool. Cuz honestly,I never understood why Lucas isn’t considered at-least top of high tier.

Zss has some of the weirdest tools possible to throw on a character but she just works sometimes

I hope we get one more balance patch that reverts some of zss nerfs and nerfs steve to a fair amount, I really hope they dont gut him because I like minecraft, I dont play steve cause it almost feels unfair at times, but I still think top steve players earned their spots, also I hope sonic gets changes so he can be played more like a rushdown than hit and run

Can't wait for why no one plays Corrin!

I literally used to main her. I cant even land short hop nair consistently anymore. And if its a short character forget about it. Throw combos are gone and even her tether is shorter. They disected everything that made me main her lol

it’s so sad that she got nerfed so hard, completely unjustified imo. one of the coolest characters in the game

Man I wish they'd give us one last patch :/

Hey man, your videos are amazing! I really enjoy them. I was wondering if you had plans to make a Donkey Kong as I'm finding myself really enjoying getting to know that character and your in-depth analysis would certainly help! Anyways thank you!

The thing is you need to play very clean with zero suit samus in order to win in the actual game, do it that is difficult and very stressful. ZSS was my first main in ultimate, it was very fun to play becasuse she felt fair in her strengths and waknesses, but now it feels like playing her only gives you disadvantage agains your opponent. Luckily she is fast enough to try to compensate her disadvantages

another thing is ZSS is really really hard to play. she’s an extremely polarizing character that destroys so much of the cast but she’s extremely hard to learn which draws people away from her

Imo zss is by far the most fun character in the game, both to play against and as. She just has to work so hard for every single matchup. Even the ones she wins easily, she has to play so hard to secure wins.

Everyone after seeing ZZS in Brawl: SAMUS' A WOMAN?! (Adventure Time Meme)

I was a ZSS main for so long till I saw the changes. I found myself not being able to work for me anymore, and ended up maining my secondary: Dark Pit.

Been waiting for this one for a little while. ZSS undeniably one of the hypest characters in the game but they’re borderline bait for new players because of how weird they play. Won’t stop me

Stopped playing her after they nerfed her two most important assets and butchered the character, the most evil thing Nintendo has done Smash 4 ZSS remains the most authentic and real Samus and oh yean and her combos were more fun back then, 0 to death people, good times

Her natural air nerf in my opinion is what ruined her.

Someone send this to Marss for him to react to, I really want to see this gremlin getting all relieved and screaming "finally" multiple times in a row over someone else acknowledging the problems with ZSS

How long before the mars reaction video

Playing ZSS in tournement is not only hard because she is a complex character, shes also hard because a lot of her bad matchups are common AND strong characters (aegis, wolf, roy... ) at least, that is how I feel in locals when I play zss

Zss has a few major flaws. The first is that she is incredibly difficult to play requiring you play extremely precise to do anything. The second is that her ground moves all kind of suck and aerials basically all have to be landed making her kind of predictable. The third thing is that she gets completely shut down by just shielding. Like seriously, just hold shield and she can't do anything. She has an extremely slow and risky grab with very little reward on her throws and she lacks the shield damage to force opponents out of shield.

ZSS has always been one of my favorite characters in the Smash series. She is my third best character in Brawl and Ultimate, and she was my second best in 4. She's definitely a good character and can still beat down on most of the cast, but unfortunately her worst matchups are too common. The nerfs have definitely damaged her quite a bit, and I honestly can't see her being any higher than high tier on a tier list. People are more experienced with the matchup, some of her moves don't work half the time (such as her up special and fair), the DLC and buffs to some of her even/bad matchups made it evem more difficult to go far with her, and some characters like Sonic can basically do everything ZSS can do but better and more consistently/efficiently. Despite this, I'll still continue to use her as she's both one of my favorite Smash characters to use, she's my best female fighter among the entire cast, she's one of my favorite video game characters in general, and she's been my number one waifu since I was like four or five years old.

We need a reaction to this from Marss

I always feel like playing her is such a chore because nothing in her kit feels like it combos, and if it does the timing is really tight and unintuitive. She has nair and fair to approach, but besides that you have her laggy ground moves with limited follow ups, and her grabs with exactly 0 true combos. She's got some specific confirms you can fish for, but if you don't want to be constantly looking for a nair, you'll have to be constantly winning neutral to do anything remotely cool. Not to mention she struggles to kill

Can you talk about why no one uses Villager and Isabelle?

Sakurai should have nerfed the invincibility of flip jump and buffed all of zss' offensive moves like down tilt instead of nerfing her offensive. That would encourage zss players to actually engage with their opponents instead of going for time outs because it's optimal

This was clearly a case of proximity bias against ZSS since her best reps have Nintendo's ear while the rest of the world screams into the void. Shame too since ZSS was like THE poster girl for Smash and making her irrelevant only hurts the overall appeal of Ultimate.

Thia is before watching. Her precision is a problem. Shebhas a big hurtbox and small hitboxes which she has to commit to. The faster the game goes the harder it is to use her. Meanwhile I can't kill with her. Even over 110 I just cant finish the job

I didn’t know ZSS would be featured in this damn did she really fall?

I used to watch those videos but its really hard to watch after i switched to hdr mod. Im ZSS main but she looks like a heavy in ultimate xD

Hoping for a Everyone plays Palutena and No One plays Corrin in the future!

It’s funny how you put Ike in the same conversation of Palutena and Wario. Ike is definitely not a top tier or high tier character. He is barely even a mid tier

She was actually top 5 before the nerfs and DLC. It’s the exact same story as Smash 4: one of the best at the start of the game, pushed out of the meta by nerfs and DLC If they hadn’t nerfed Boost Kick startup from frame 4 to 6, I’d still probably play her since that nerf took away zair > boost kick, most ladder combos, and weakened her oos game. The Nair nerf also removed nair > nair > flip kick which was an insanely early kill confirm on most of the cast. Plus she was never offered any buffs to compensate akin to Ike or someone hence why I dropped her. Would it have really killed them to let down throw combo into up air again? I don’t think so.

**Marss has entered the chat**

Good Video Though I think you were misinformed on one thing Japan's Zss players post Quarantine don't get good results and the formerly notable Japanese Zss players Kuro, Choco, and Shky either don't play anymore or don't get good results. Subsequently, on the official tier list, Japan actually had Zss placed 10 spots lower than the overall average. That info can be found on the analysis doc that came out with the official tier list. So Japan actually doesnt think that highly of Zss. As a result Zss only top rep rn is Marss.

People really and I mean REALLY wanted this character nerfed to the ground. There was about 3 years of non-stop zss hate and I felt bad for those mains. For a character that is not easy to master, I thought it was pretty hypocritical every time I saw a cloud or diddy main claim that the matchup was somehow in her favor. I just want to say I judge the crap out of a lot of these mains now. Welp, now they got what they want and to nobody’s surprise, they still can’t get even top 16 at locals.

I tried to pick up ZSS in Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate, but I couldn’t muster the patience to get the hang of her mobility and making the most out of her attacks. What made me ultimately decide to give up on her though was how often I actually missed with with a lot of her moves. Over time, I started to notice more and more that her attacks connecting through to the end even when used at point blank and landing directly was just not happening. Like what happened with her using her up-b on Roy at point blank in one of the clips here, they’d sometimes completely miss. And sometimes, the first hit would launch the opponent up, but then fail to connect with the second kick. Other attacks also had issues like this, where for some reason, they just pushed the opponent too far out of reach or didn’t do so enough for the most powerful, most important part of the move to actually land. That made it so difficult to gauge wether or not I was actually improving with her and improving my accuracy with her attacks so often that it made me lose all motivation to keep trying with her, especially in Ultimate where there’s nearly 90 other characters I could play which includes multiple that are more consistent and cater much more to my play style, and also yeah, the DLC fighters also really didn’t help her position

Can u make a video on corrin?

Here before Marss makes a react video on this exact piece of content

Someone downgrade their Smash, get buried by ZSS, and then with your bare hands rip your controller in two. I want to see if Vars is correct about that not working.

The American meta has shifted from valuing good frame data to stray hit kill power. Characters like Kazuya and Incineroar that prey on opponents mistakes are doing better than characters that out neutral their opponents.

i would love to see why no one plays lucario

Can you do a video about Olimar?

Still glad about the steve bans

I suggest a why no one plays Duck hunt because he’s an actual character that I see almost zero people play and it’d be interesting to hear your thoughts on his stats

Please do Olimar next!

Nerfing probably the most stylish character is just sad times in general.

I agree with your reasons on wht no one plays her. The nerfs were the final straw, does not help she has little reps post nerfs. Ig in NA we have Marss, Sharp, and maybe Shoe?? People don't wanna work for her confirms when Fox/Aegis/Roy exist lmao Also I wonder if Lucina is a candiate for WNOP? The only reps at top level are Proto, Leon (France), and maybe Mr.E? It's basically instead of nerfs its player and meta changes. I wanna know if players finding her boring is actually the reason people dropped her.

I loved ZSS for a long time, but the extra startup on upB killed her for me.

You're in for a treat, so hang on to your seat

I would’ve much preferred that none of that stuff got nerfed but that they took away some of flip kick’s invincibility.

Zss is kinda funny in this regard bc you never get practice and then you get a random sweat who smacks you down easily for the first stock

I don't even need to watch the video. It's because every other main finally bullied ZSS mains out of the game.

I've been a ZSS main for 3 years now.. I still remember the day she got her hair nerfed. so painful

I think this character still has a lot of growth. ZSS mains still stick to their bnb combos. She really needs some experimentation. I saw one video, forget who it was, that was utilized sling shot with zair/side-b. Basically made zss almost untouchable.

Why no one plays Lucas vid coming soon?

What happened to ZSS in Ult still makes me upset. I love this character, she's been a favorite of mine since Brawl yet Ultimate treated her horribly and unfairly with the nerfs compared to her competitors. I dropped her because of her inconsistency but more so because you had to look for a completely different gameplan compared to other nerfed top tiers who kept their options. She's "good" but no longer good enough to keep up with the best and there's not much reason to play her unless you really like her that much since other characters do what she can but better

Why hello there, Marss!

Each time you make a "why no one play this character " I see only this character online lol

Zero Suit Samus was my main in Smash 4 but everything just feels slower in Ultimate, and her down special, while still decent enough for dodging, isn't quite as reliable as it once was. Thankfully Samus with her power suit is finally viable, a character I really liked but had a lot of shortcomings, and just something as small as the morph ball bombs exploding on contact makes a big difference.

Can you make one on fox?

you sure it doesn't have something to do with that ZSS is completely awkward, her moves leave her in preset locations (meaning you can't aim like you can with fox or lucario UP B ), her kill potential is low and entirely dependent upon telegraphed smashes that are some of the only ones in the game that require a charge time in order to even use. Her neutral B has no use if it is not charged, and since all of ZSS's combos are preset, it's insanely easy to launch yourself off a stage for a self-kill with a move that won't cancel until it encounters a surface...

Can you pls do one for Marth, information for him is scarce

joker's video should be why no one have results with joker

Not sure why, but your mic seems very low. I have to have my phone volume maxed out to hear you decently.

Do why no one plays Lucas next

ZSS main here from the start. Ive always sucked with her, and I still do. Whenever I play her my biggest gripe is I have to work in all these specific ways to get a kill, then I'll die to literally every single move, any smash from anyone else, dash attacks from other characters, tilts kill her, literally dies to everything while she has to do oddly specific things and work for any kill. You can play another character and press random buttons and do better. Mythra is just as fast and has a fkin sword, and then she can just switch to pyra to kill with any move. That being said, I'll continue to be shitty at the character and losing all the time because shes fun lol.

you forgot to mention that a lot of his moves just don't work as they should

i really think a belmont video would be interesting ( if it hasnt already been done)

I still use her but I see what you mean. Great video.

Hard to find a high caliber zero suit outside of Japan? Marss, Shoe, Doorstop, Sharp, AndrewT, and AoS are all very good zero suits from NA that are high level at worst.

The infamous down throw nerf is one reason.

Here before we get a Mars reaction 😅

Why does nobody play RYU?

Why no one play banjo, ones of the most wanted dlc characters and no one plays em

Time for "Why X plays Samus" to round out the Metroid character trilogy

GnW video when? He's pretty high tier but almost never used, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Do banjo next 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Would like to someday see why no one plays little mac. His areal game is non-existent but his ground game is crazy good. Recovery is arguably better than of Ganondorfs and superarmor on all smash attacks is busted

Marss is gonna react the fuck outta this

This video kinda shows why I don’t like when devs listen to only one group of players and this goes heavily towards JP devs and JP players because they almost always listen to what the Japanese players say about characters and not what the rest of what the other regions have to say, a good example is Vlov from Type Lumina where here in NA we consider him very strong and should be tweaked or nerf they go ahead and actually buff him because the devs only listen to the JP players because the JP players believe he’s actually not that good and needs help. So when we saw him get buffed us NA players were surprised on why they buffed him. But on a positive note it just the mindset between different regions when it comes to fighting games though it is a double edged sword at certain times like when it comes to buffing/nerfing a character

Im annoyed about the decisions Ultimate had of nerfing low tiers or just ok characters because of an overreaction in the early stages in the game. They had little to no intentions of balancing later in the game’s finial DLC phase and had no intention of fixing the mistakes made at the start of the game