Why People Weren't Happy With My Comment About EV Charging Prices

Рет қаралды 8,411

Ай бұрын

When talking about the value proposition of public EV charging networks, people were quick to challenge me when I mentioned a "cheap rate" that many felt really wasn't that cheap. But is there more to the story? To find out what's REALLY going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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Пікірлер: 175

@johnogrady2024 Ай бұрын

People are often looking to take things the wrong way. You do a great job. Thanks for your independent work. I always look forward to seeing your posts. Cheers

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

No you don’t understand what people are saying. 65p per kWh for public charging is a rip off considering the charger operators are installing all their units with huge government grants. They also get special electric tariffs and allowances. The service many operators offer isn’t the best either, chargers are often out of order or have issues connecting with the car. So yes, we’re being ripped off paying 65p per kWh for an expensive poor service.

@rogerphelps9939 Ай бұрын

I charge up at a Dupercharger. 25p a unit and very convenient too.

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

@@rogerphelps9939 That's a very good price 👍

@rico4229 Ай бұрын

Not heard of a Dupercharger before 😂

@tedmack6516 Ай бұрын

The ev/charging market is completely distorted by subsidies. Ev are subsidised by the concessions to the business market, charging by the government - how much taxpayer money? Tesla costs must be constantly analysed to ensure they are not temporary loss leaders and are sustainable. The last thing needed is monopoly. If you are right Dave the private investment will collapse and the whine will be for increased government investment - a government which has no money. Well done Dave encouraging debate.

@alansteventon1659 Ай бұрын

Hi Dave, I am now using Tesla only chargers on long journeys. I have Kia eNiro and I used Tesla only chargers on my trip from Edinburgh to Interlaken in Switzerland. I had no problem and saved a fortune. I don't use the others unlessvI am really stuck till the reduce their crazy prices.

@euden Ай бұрын

Could you describe your experience? do you have to use a card at the charger or do you need to use the tesla app and add a card to that?

@harvardan Ай бұрын

@@euden There's no available RFID card to use a Tesla charger, yes you use the app to start and pay for the charge, unless it's a V4 charger that have a contactless payment terminal. Even still on a long road trip you'd be better off paying for a month of Tesla membership to get discounted charging and then in that case you still use the app.

@tatfletch9880 Ай бұрын

@alanstenton1659 I think you meant to type "using only Tesla chargers" as non-Teslas can't charge at "Tesla only" chargers (hence the name).

@euden Ай бұрын

@@harvardan I have a long road trip coming up in a few months time so I've been looking at whether there are any Tesla chargers open to other EV's along the way to maximise the fact they are vastly cheaper so I can plan my journey and charge at them along the way 😃

@AndrewTSq Ай бұрын

@@harvardan actually new EU law from 13th of april says all new ev chargers must accept a normal bankcard, and all ev chargers already built must accept it from 1st jan of 2027 so it will change.

@jezsang6484 Ай бұрын

What an absolute mess UK EV charging infrastructure is in. This doesn’t bode well and could become a prime mover in EV take up slowdown. Public charging an EV is already far more costly than it should be and there’s not even a fuel duty applied yet. (Because obviously any Gov will be looking to replace lost fossil fuel duty revenue somehow, as EV uptick increases). I look back nostalgically at the days past when it was completely free to charge an EV on motorways. I think the same may be true as EV’s become more main stream as it seems to me the intent is to ensure that the transition to electric will cost the motorist more, not less once the tipping point is reached.

@TeaBreak. Ай бұрын

Anything over 50p/kWh is more expensive than fossil fuel at current price. Price being double the domestic peak rate is fair. Which was 15p when gas was cheap.. Only Tesla public charging is reasonably fair these days with its own off peak tariffs.

@gordonmcmillan4709 Ай бұрын

Topped up at two Superchargers in the last couple of days - plug it in, get coffee, drink coffee, unplug and go. I think both times it was 45p a unit.

@DerekDavis213 Ай бұрын

At a petrol station. 720 km of range in less than 5 minutes. And petrol stations are everywhere. EVs cannot compare to that!

@mallamal5578 Ай бұрын

@@DerekDavis213and Oakington a fortune.

@gordonmcmillan4709 Ай бұрын

@@DerekDavis213 Fair comment as regards speed. Not sure petrol or diesel would end up cheaper though. I don't miss buying diesel at £80 per tank ...

@harvardan Ай бұрын

@@DerekDavis213 At a service station you can't leave your car at the pumps charging up, so first you have to park up, go and use the facilities, then get back in your car, drive the short distance to the petrol station then fuel up, so you're sort of ignoring the lost "time" there. In addition, many smaller ICE cars have quite small tanks with only 250-300 mile capacity at motorway speeds, so not much difference to many new EVs.

@DerekDavis213 Ай бұрын

@@gordonmcmillan4709 £80 per tank for diesel? How big is the tank? 😀 I am in California, and gasoline here costs about $1.45 USD per liter. Not too bad.

@rtfazeberdee3519 Ай бұрын

NACS is not a world standard, it's a USA standard

@rogerphelps9939 Ай бұрын

Absolutely. Furthermore it is anti-competitive because it is run by a cartel of suppliers who happen have some agreement with Tesla. It would be illegal in most civilised parts of the world. Futheremore it appears that there is no means of getting out of it; you have to have an account with a supplier. Contrast that with CCS2. This allows consumers to pay pretty much how they like, including contactless, no silly accounts or apps needed, just like petrol and just about any other inexpensive purchase nowadays. CCS is open; anyone can be a supplier and trhat means that anyone can set up as a provider and that will eventually encourage price competition

@gavjlewis Ай бұрын

It's in the name. North American Changing Standard. So Canada is included too.

@apterachallenge Ай бұрын

@@rogerphelps9939 I guess that's the price you pay for having a reliable network. But from what I understand, apart from Tesla providing its open source NACS technology, there is no contractual agreement with Tesla. Yes, Tesla requires users to have an app, and that's part of the reliability of their system: it is an in-house software which is designed to work every time, and you have to have the app to connect to it. This isn't like pumping gas which is not an electrical connection between the vehicle and the pump. In order to accurately meter how much energy is being delivered to the vehicle you need an interface, and the fact is that Tesla's NACS interface is better and more reliable than the creaky CCS interface. Not only that, but Tesla's hardware is more reliable. They just have better engineering.

@allangibson8494 Ай бұрын

@@apterachallengeExcept it is EXACTLY like pumping fuel into your car. You fill it up and pay the price per kilowatt hour metered. Your house has the same metering capabilities. Technically easier because it’s all electric. CCS is better for home charging as it has a higher capacity. CCS has the ability to back feed the grid too unlike NACS.

@apterachallenge Ай бұрын

@@allangibson8494 My point is that for public fast charging your car has to be able to authenticate. A gas tank is just a container with a filler pipe attached to it - completely analog. But for fast charging the charger needs to know what power rating your car can charge at, etc. so it has to be a digital connection. At home, it's not so crucial as every EV can handle slow charging, and your onboard charger just accepts the 110V or 220V and deals with it. But even that is digital.

@user-ps2zr7jp6p Ай бұрын

Great summary Dave, I use Tesla chargers wherever I can, then, if there are none available, for instance, in the Carlisle area, I use Ionity and FastNed as my next choices based purely on price. The FastNed auto charging is excellent, by the way.

@garycassap-brown7829 Ай бұрын

Glad you show the difference in charging prices, will help me to shop around for best prices.

@kennshearer526 Ай бұрын

Despite your predictions of many months ago there are still very few Tesla superchargers available to all. I expect that Gridserve and others will still have a market for some time. However if the supermarkets ramp up their charging infrastructure (as you have mentioned) and companies such as Sainsbury’s who own and manage their charging network decide to use lower pricing to attract customers then along with Tesla this could move the goal posts. The result may mean a return to a shoddy charging network if existing companies go out of business or stop maintaining their networks. But - who knows. It’s all “a chat down the pub” guesswork 😁

@ianemery2925 Ай бұрын

I noticed Shell advertising Rapid charging at Gatwick for 44p, but much higher prices for Super Rapid - without actually explaining what speeds they categorised for each.

@apterachallenge Ай бұрын

Meanwhile, in Australia, Tritium, a manufacturer of EV chargers, just filed for bankruptcy. Seems like charging EV's is an expensive proposition, and nobody wants to pay for it.

@allangibson8494 Ай бұрын

Charging EV’s at home is easier. Full charge overnight from a power point with a $75 adapter and 20c per kWh…

@wdsmauglir4683 Ай бұрын

Keep it up Dave, I like your posts regardless, offsets some of the masses of ICE nonsense on other channels 👍

@prjackson7802 Ай бұрын

Great video

@mrmawson2438 Ай бұрын

Cheers Dave

@DashyDino_is_back Ай бұрын

There is now non Tesla super chargers in Bristol eastgate in the Burger King car park . Just opened last week .

@hughchilds5888 Ай бұрын

and in the last few days, Lysander Rd Tesla Chargers, at the old Tesla service centre (near Cribbs Causeway). From 32p to 51p per kWh.

@AndrewTSq Ай бұрын

Current electricity price here is $0.08 / kwh for our energy companys to buy (then you add their profit, grid fees, vat and taxes. So that is why we will never see super cheap charging. All people who pay less have long contracts with their supplier, and when it runs out, they will see the new reality.

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

Two issues with that. First history. Tesla has had cheap charging at superchargers for more than 10 years. Second, Tesla in USA are actually an electricity generator and supplier. They set their own prices and profit margins. They buy and sell electricity through autobidder.

@AndrewTSq Ай бұрын

@@davetakesiton okey might be different in different countries, but Tesla in Sweden buy their electricity from Skellefteå Kraft power company.

@hoapham7389 Ай бұрын

And I'm horrifird for over 0.35€/kwh prices we have in finland. 😂 I need to appreciate my current situation

@bikes_camera_more Ай бұрын

Rugby, which I think was shown in your video, does not have its Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas. Do you have any idea when they might? It is probably my charging hub of choice when travelling up to Retford. Oh, I do love your style, Dave. Keep up the info.

@Gazer75 Ай бұрын

Here Tesla is more expensive than half the other nearby CPOs unless you subscribe. My local SUC is 5.2/5.8 NOK/kWh and right next to them are two 300kW Uno-X Hyperchargers that charged 4.5-5.0 NOK/kWh all winter, while the SuC was up at 5.8/6.4 NOK/kWh around November-February. Another CPO in town that have 3 locations charge 5.49 NOK but with a 10% bonus activated in the app that is deducted on every 10th session. A Tesla subscription is now 115 NOK/month and reduces the prices 1.0-1.5 NOK/kWh depending on location and time of day. I think Tesla figured if they don't drop prices then we can increase ours. And I'm also guessing the 12 stall SuC gets overwhelmed during weekends and vacation periods.

@rogerphelps9939 Ай бұрын

Charging more for those without subscriptions should be outlawed, indeed subscriptions are superfluous. You don't get any of that nonsense with petrol or diesel.

@apterachallenge Ай бұрын

@@rogerphelps9939 Really, what about those supermarket discounts where you have to spend a certain amount of money at the supermarket to get a 4c discount for your petrol? These kinds of schemes are designed to encourage you to spend money, and that's all that Tesla is doing. It's a loyalty scheme. They want you to do ALL your charging at a Tesla supercharger. It wouldn't be worth paying the subscription unless you are buying a minimum amount of kWh per month.

@davidwebster5235 Ай бұрын

How do know which Tesla chargers are open?

@JSMITH6298 Ай бұрын

Agree that the Tesla charging network is great. However, there are still frustrations even with this network eg the closure of the very useful Elvedon chargers next to the A11 (don’t know whether temporary or not), parking charges at one of the Heathrow sites.

@JohnBBuck Ай бұрын

Are you interested in coming to the Charin Festival in Poland, Dave?

@danielaumlaut6852 Ай бұрын

The NACS is only single phase on the AC side, so that's just not good for Europe. It's debatable whether doing what Dave's older Model S does with a type 2 connector is better than the big DC prongs on CCS2, I'm agnostic to that.

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

As a user, I would much rather have a small lightweight single plug and a light flexible cable than a technically super technology that is big bulky and heavy and the cable is heavy and rigid and needs a massive counterbalance, but that’s just me as a user

@mrmawson2438 Ай бұрын

Morning mate

@Gazer75 Ай бұрын

The whole NACS vs CCS2 not about what it better. No one in their right mind would go NACS in Europe as it can't support 3 phase AC charging. And there is no such thing as single phase 400V, that I know of anyway, so we would be stuck with 230V single phases and 32A instead of 3 phase 400V at 16 or 32A.

@EwanM11 Ай бұрын

3 phase charging gets you to 22kW vs current single phase 7kW but very few houses have 3 phase. Cars don't tend to have onboard chargers for greater capacities than 11kw . Fast charging is DC not AC..so NACS would be fine. Irrelevant for EU though.

@Gazer75 Ай бұрын

@@EwanM11 The 400V TN system is 3 phase and you get that into your home. It is then set up to grab L+N to get 230V for the home. NACS have two prongs for DC and AC charging combined + neutral, proxy and control pins. The Type 2 (AC part of CCS2) plug has the 3 phases + PE, N, control and proxy. Because of the 400V system the current is lower and thus the cables are thinner. Most AC chargers at parking lots are 11kW or more here in Norway. Basically at least 3 phase 400V 16A. And that is what people get at home if they have access to 400V. Most areas developed after 2000 do. A big part of Norway actually has the 230V IT system which has no ground or neutral all the way. In that case you get the 230V using L-L and the home is grounded. Being limited to 230V 32A as batteries and cars get bigger is not smart. In the US they need these massive cables and fuses to do 240V 48A or more. I've seen plenty of videos of electricians installing this in peoples homes. Fat and stiff cables.

@EwanM11 Ай бұрын

@@Gazer75 ok, that sounds fair. In the UK most houses are old, and 3 phase is uncommon. 7kW destination chargers are all I've seen.

@ma40 Ай бұрын

@@EwanM11 Three-phase is now going more for some new housing developments (depending on the DNO), and it's extremely common in commercial settings. We've also got to remember that CCS2 was chosen as a standard in 2014, long before Brexit.

@mrmawson2438 Ай бұрын

Tesla Road Trippin' In Scotland: Nae Bother?! Tesla Jigsaw

@ag_a3346 28 күн бұрын

Dave, there are amny things I have agreed with you since I have discovered your channel. However, pricing is something I just cannot agree with you, 69p per kWh is NOT cheap. I'm pleased you've done this video as I just cannot ever recall disagreeing with any other video you've made!!

@davetakesiton 27 күн бұрын

Having just got back from Bristol where there are 3 open to all superchargers with a cheap rate of 22p and a peak rate of 40p, I agree. But 69p is cheaper than 79p or 85p and is about the best on offer other than Tesla. It will be much lower by the end of the year. Please feel free to disagree.

@colinrobinson7869 Ай бұрын

As in the ICE car market it was only when the supermarkets came on board did the cost of fossil fuel come done and edge out the small independents, and now increasing there profit margins, so as you have said before the supermarkets could with there weekly foot full cut there profits to single pence and go head to head with Tesla.

@stephenbagwell8275 Ай бұрын

I’d choose Rugby Services because of the layout of the chargers and it has Pret A Manger

@martincharnley6143 Ай бұрын

From what you say it looks like CHaDEMO drivers have had it. Tesla won’t extend anything to us. But maybe the ccs to ChaDemo adapter will?

@Harrythehun Ай бұрын

Fast charging is a service. A service with extremely low revenue, low transaction values per transaction, high risk for customer complaints, high maintenance costs, new technology with short life expectancy, no resell value, rising costs for energy and grid/transmission rates, rising energy taxes, high inflation impact for hardware and maintenance, rising lease fees from landlords, banking and card fees, CPO systems, backend, apps, so on, so on

@themanofmead5273 Ай бұрын

If it’s that poor an investment you would think they wouldn’t bother installing them 🤔

@rogerphelps9939 Ай бұрын

Wrong on most counts. Most of what you are on about applies equally to petrol and diesel.

@PJWey Ай бұрын

@@rogerphelps9939yes imagine owning millions of soon to be stranded assets in the form of petrol pumps. Just look at Norway, forecourts are removing pumps to add rapid chargers.

@anthonydyer3939 Ай бұрын

And the reason why revenue is low - the prices are too high! A lot of these expensive chargers could get far better revenue if they dropped the prices in half! Remember 2022, when charging prices were jacked up massively from 35 to 65p/kWh? They had a good excuse, since the wholesale electricity futures prices hit 75p/kWh at their peak in September 2022. Even Tesla were jacking up the prices. Since then, wholesale prices have come right back down to 6-8p/kWh. Tesla have reduced their prices in lockstep with wholesale prices. But others just kept the prices high! Who’s making the revenue? The cheaper providers with good utilisation rates and enough profit to cover their ‘per use’ costs. Who’s in denial? Those who can’t understand why too few use their chargers because their prices are too high. They have extremely low revenue, because they fail to understand the difference between their ‘per use’ running costs and their ‘per day’ running costs. If you can cover ‘per use’ running costs with a gross profit, then the ‘per day’ running costs can be covered by the volume of sales. Just in another video I commented that a 100kW charger with 12 hours per day utilisation should net £315 revenue after wholesale electricity and vat per day at 40p/kWh. That’s £100000 per charger per year. Even if that was optimistic, I’d be hopeful that business plan would still cover your other costs. Meanwhile the 75p/kWh 100kW charger getting used only 1 hour per day nets only £60 ish per day after per use costs. That business plan is destined to die. But nonetheless the hardware is in place, so in the worst case (or best case depending on your point of view) it’ll be bought cheap in the bankruptcy proceedings and repurposed into a better business plan.

@tedmack6516 Ай бұрын

Yes for Outdoor headings. Why the rush. subsidy subsidy subsidy a d a tach bubble.

@bertchalmers Ай бұрын

I'd like to use tesla chargers, there is one less than a mile from my house but its not an open one. The only open one is ~20miles away and is more expensive than the evPoint down the road and the same price as the fastned during peak times. Evening rate is still more expensive than evPoint after a £2 subscription to Bonnet. And super off peak is redundant for me as I don't want to make a 40mile round trip between 10pm and 4 am

@Luke-J Ай бұрын

Moto Reading East V4 chargers pre-dates Moto Frankley by months and is far cheaper than the Gridserve units opposite and people still use them. The V4's there are cheaper than Frankley too.

@mdshovel Ай бұрын

In the words of Clint Eastwood .. what an absolute "cluster**ck" in public charger rollout. I have a charge card from Volvo and pay 47p at certain dispensers .. works well for me, particularly at Ionity

@stephencrowther524 Ай бұрын

It’s laughable that so many think that a new technology and means of transport infrastructure should be sorted out immediately. It will take decades,exactly like the infrastructure for ICE vehicles.

@smortg Ай бұрын

65p per kW for reliable chargers with good geographical coverage is fine. I've felt less bad about going to a more costly Osprey because the technology is quite good and well placed in areas like pubs near major highways If we could rely on chargers to work in a straightforward manner, with clear indication of costs, over 98% of the time, then 65p wouldn't feel as bad. I still want some more 5-11kw chargers in as many on street spots as feasible

@entity_dragons2013 Ай бұрын

I like how the price list at the beginning, France cheapest the UK second , the price list should be UK at the bottom as its in Euros

@edenviews Ай бұрын

The investors had a recession too, so the price went up for some charging companies. I can't see the supermarkets getting a lot of new chargers soon up here in the north of England. I kicked myself for staying too long in a Scottish town last week at 55p per kWh on the 50kW charger, when only 20 miles down back over the border. Good facilities, though in sleepy borders of Scotland. If folk don't know about EV charging prices it's an eye opener for you to tell them, but they should get with the programme, too, surely? Spoon fed is the order of the day in this country, is it? No wonder the high prices can still be asked for!

@gavjlewis Ай бұрын

At the moment the number one priority seems to be convenance. Most people that regularly rapid charge do so at peak times. This is when the chargers are busy so they just chose the most convenient. They are not overly bothered if they pay 79p or 65p on tesla if they are busy they will use the gridserve ones. Tesla only has the leverage off peak and they are not busy then asost people are still charging at peak times.

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

Yes but it is a strange attitude. I was once told if you pay £5 extra you can shrug it off but if you see a £5 note on the floor you will dive to try to grab it.

@gavjlewis Ай бұрын

@@davetakesiton Remember lots of the regular users will be company car drivers. When it's not your money who cares about the extra £5! I guess it also depends how northern you are! 😄

@wakeywarrior Ай бұрын

The non Tesla chargers are a rip off. My friend who got a Jaguar electric when they first came out, and I was considering the same, gave me sage advice. He said get a Tesla. You cannot believe how important the Supercharger network is until you have an electric car. Most people under estimate this factor and buy other electric cars. 5 years later and 2 Tesla’s on, I go everywhere easy in my Tesla and would not consider any other make until the non Tesla charging situation changes substantially. Shame as I would like to also consider other models.

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

It would be ideal if this channel could help people choose the right EV but too often our hearts rule our decisions. Enjoy your Tesla

@MikeRyan-vd1qw Ай бұрын

The very slow streetlamp chargers in my borough are 24p/kWh

@stephenbagwell8275 Ай бұрын

AC charging is cheaper and Renault Zoe’s can get 22kW at some of them

@Jaw0lf Ай бұрын

I just bought my Tesla as the costs of non Tesla Rapid chargers are too high and wanted more options.

@jeromezone Ай бұрын

This comment in isolation sounds like complete BS, but one of my friends just bought a Tesla as (for complex visa reasons) it’s incredibly difficult for him to holiday in Europe. So any car he buys we will need to be petrol or have huge, fast, reliable network for his domestic holidays. Meanwhile I do over 15k per year and use public chargers around 2x per year.

@tatfletch9880 Ай бұрын

Although I can see where Dave keeps coming from (Tesla is superior for charging - in fact it would be ludicrous if it wasn't seeing as Tesla designed the system AND had complete control over the software AND protocols AND sent error logs any time there was an issue !!). As others have pointed out: NACS is NOT a world standard. NACS does not support 3 phase charging**. 3 phase charging is important in Europe (but nearly absent in the UK) as most homes in central Europe have, or could easily upgrade to 3 phase supply. Type2 was developed with 3 phase supply in mind, hence all the pins in the plug. **You could make a case for a DC home charger running on 3 phase to get around the lack of pins in the NACS connector.

@michaelketley1252 Ай бұрын

Personally, I plan my longer journeys around using Tesla chargers, even if it means a detour.

@nottmfunguy Ай бұрын

A price war to see who can charge more? 😂. Yes I can see that coming. If I owned a EV charging company with no regulation, I would be ramping those prices up. Market forces guys.

@6r4metroman Ай бұрын

Thank you for the update, having bought my EV 2 weeks ago, how can I tell if the Tesla charging station is suitable for my car?

@crm114. Ай бұрын

Look at the Tesla Supercharger map. On that, there is an option to show chargers open to non-Tesla cars.

@ianrob4760 Ай бұрын

@@crm114. yep the App is very good, I used the ones at harrogate with my MG4 a few weeks ago

@malcolmsutton6740 Ай бұрын

Enter your car in the app, it will then show only chargers available to your car.

@andrewnicholson9857 Ай бұрын

Just to correct you but there isn't really a world standard for charging. Yes NACS is the North American Charging Standard but China has a completely different standard. GB/T is the Chinese standard and obviously CCS in Europe but also South Korea and Australia. Japan is really lagging in EV adoption but Chademo is still widely used.

@Popdog76 Ай бұрын

Ccs2 in Europe not to be confused with CCS1

@darren100880 Ай бұрын

im a non tesla driver but plan my longer trips around telsa super chargers

@ralphwilliams8139 Ай бұрын

Competition from Tesla is great, as long as you have a CCS charging EV. Poor old Chademo is stuck in the slow and expensive lane for as long as the networks bother to support them, and then they will be limited to AC charging once the remaining networks stop maintaining the chargers. That or a very expensive and warrantly voiding conversion to CCS

@thelaserhive3368 Ай бұрын

True. But you can now buy an adapter to plug onto the end of a CCS charger and give you CHADEMO output. They are a bit pricey though at the moment at about £800.

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

@@thelaserhive3368 With all due respect, an adapter at this moment in time is a non-starter at that price.

@ralphwilliams8139 Ай бұрын

@@thelaserhive3368 That adaptor is from a previously unknown Chinese company and even the Dutch promotor of chademo conversions was unimpressed with the build quality. Using it is at your own risk and probably risks you being sued by the charger operator.

@jezsang6484 Ай бұрын

And look forward to CCS going the same way too. Pretty much all non Tesla EV’s on sale now are already obsolete.

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

@@jezsang6484 CCS2 is now the European Standard and all new EVs including Tesla's in Europe are equipped with the CCS2 connector.

@baza2956 Ай бұрын

there shouldnt be a charger for one make they all should be open to all

@djtaylorutube Ай бұрын

If one manufacturer has put in all the upfront effort on order to sell their cars, that's completely fair. Wait to go and buy a car from manufacturers that don't provide the rest of the required system, go for it but then don't complain. Try a hydrogen car, they're the future apparently.

@rico4229 Ай бұрын

You seem fairly sure you know the cost structure of say example Gridserve. I'm sure Tesla do have lower costs but that doesn't mean the other charge networks won't respond to Tesla. They probably just don't , need to , at the moment? ...

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

I think you’re right in theory but in practice there is a huge difference. Tesla have a critical mass and have charger maintenance engineers fully trained in the Tesla made chargers and driving round the country on hand to respond. Many CNO engineers are not trained in the multitude of different chargers they come across. Also to get U.S. grants they have to bid and Tesla bids are typically 75% less than the electrify Americas bids. Seems they can install much cheaper. Finally Tesla doesn’t have 1/2 billion investment in the charging network with individual investors demanding a return on their money.

@ianrob4760 Ай бұрын

just checked and Gridserve at Frankly 10/13 free so still that min usage. Tesla 13 out of 16 free, Tesla 74p Gridserve 79p - 16:52 so peak so at this moment no real competition.

@zippyatrainbow Ай бұрын

I have charged at Frankly South Tesla chargers and as a member though not a Tesla owner and I was charged 45p per kilo watt hour.

@ianrob4760 Ай бұрын

@@zippyatrainbow just what it said on the Tesla app

@richardblayney5898 Ай бұрын

Price War…..Not likely - especially as Shell have just put UP their prices…..

@richardblayney5898 Ай бұрын

You are mixing quite a few things from UK and US at the same time adding your own spin on it to justify your narrative. You seem to know more about the business decisions of gridserve than they do themselves it seems 🤔

@mick8678 Ай бұрын

Isnt it 61p for us non Tesla users

@harvardan Ай бұрын

I think you're being a bit disingenuous to the ecotricity superhighway network: 1. It was a "monopoly" because at the time of it's inception it was the first of it's kind, and they were the only one bothering to do anything about it. 2. It was 50kw (and also chademo) because that was higher than the majority of cars could take at that time. 3. It was also rolled out completely free to begin with, only beginning to charge at a very reasonable 30p /kwh (15p for ecotricity customers) when the demand increased to the level where free charging was no longer sustainable. 4. The ecotricity network began in 2011 (2012 seeing the 50kw being rolled out) and as far as I can tell the first superchargers didn't get put in until 2016. It's no surprise that the older units installed in 2012 had worn out when compared to Tesla's new units in 2016/7 - yes they probably should have maintained them better, but I doubt if anyone had the understanding of that back then.

@solentbum Ай бұрын

Add on the fact that much of the cost, after the initial grants to install, were carried by Ecotricity on a personal level. It was the availability of the Electric Highway on UK motorways that got me started on my EV journey, before Tesla were up and running. A return day trip from Havant to Chesterfield was possible, and free, in the early days.

@ogriboy Ай бұрын

Even 79p is cheap by shell recharge standards at 89p and lets not forget Osprey went for £1.00/kWh only a year ago and backed off.

@solentbum Ай бұрын

I suggest that the Fossil Fuel companies are only supplying 'compliant' chargers for their Green credentials, they have no interest in EVs otherwise.

@keithdenton8386 Ай бұрын

I predict Tesla superchargers will win, Then put up prices, fo non Tesla drivers. That's what I would do.

@johniooi3954 Ай бұрын

@@foppo101 Why? Sell cheap, corner the market. Buy up other networks as they fold due to lack of use & investors pulling out due to no return. Once you own over 50% up prices, sit back & reap the rewards. That is business & Mr Musk is very good at that. Profit is king.

@PJWey Ай бұрын

@@johniooi3954just like SpaceX? 🧐😜

@darrendaniels5129 21 күн бұрын

Only a complete idiot would use other charges when so many Tesla charging hubs are now open to all unless you are in a complete muddle keep up the great work Dave.

@DavidPlayfair Ай бұрын

Maybe it's only Nissan Leafs keeping the non-Tesla chargers going! ;)

@terrymackenzie6784 Ай бұрын

Tesla have just dropped their open to all membership charge how are other charging networks going to compete

@baza2956 Ай бұрын

are you ever going to do a vid without mentioning tesla

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

I doubt that. He's not called "Tesla Dave" for nothing

@baza2956 Ай бұрын

@@davec1768 that not channel name

@stephencrowther524 Ай бұрын

Tesla is a major player,it would be bias not to mention them. 😂

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

@@stephencrowther524 BYD is the biggest seller, but he doesn't mention them in every sentence.

@CaribbeanCaveman Ай бұрын

@@davec1768how many BYDs have you seen on British roads? Don’t worry. I’ll wait.

@nigep Ай бұрын

The wholesale cost of electricity is under 7p kWh in the UK!

@rogerphelps9939 Ай бұрын

Yes. We are being right royally ripped off. I understand there is some mechanism which fixes the price of electricity at about four times that of gas. There can be no justificastion fror the massive markup between wholesale prices and the retail prices that ordinary consumers have to pay.

@ma40 Ай бұрын

For commercial rates? And what are the standing charges for high output electricity providers? Yes it feels like a rip off, especially when Gridserve used to be 30p per kWh in June 2021, but it’s more complicated than people presume.

@alanhowemusic2457 Ай бұрын

Without a reliable and sustained public charging network the Electric Car market will decline rapidly. Tesla has all along been aware that without a fast reliable and cheap charging network the Tesla electric cars sales would not take off and continue. So in a year or so time will the landscape for public chargers just be Tesla or will one of the 14 privately owned charger networks take on the challenge?

@davidcottrell570 Ай бұрын

Well, with almost 30 million EVs on the road worldwide, we’ve reached critical mass. And what the doom and gloom sales figures aren’t telling you is that numbers are still increasing, just not as quickly. I don’t believe that Tesla can be the only answer, much as they’d like to be. And I’d be surprised if the same problem didn’t exist when petrol supply issues were sorted out in the first decades of the 20th century, when my grandfather was delivering barrels of oil for Esso by horse-drawn cart. It takes time, and if there’s money to be made, people can be very ingenious indeed.

@martynayshford4318 Ай бұрын

The charging companies are not raking in cash, despite the price they charge for electricity. Think about what the cost of the charger is, acquire land, build out site, put in electrical infrastructure, buy the charger that is a pretty big capital outlay. Then you have to contend with feast and famine, no one who can avoid uses the public charger infrastructure, it's cheaper to charge at home. Then when a bank holiday comes round they may have more customers than capacity and each customer is on the charger for a lot longer than a simple fill the tank with petrol, this translates into few customers per hour, less than one? Then they go wrong and the lost opportunity cost and repair costs make the whole game even less viable. Where is the money in this venture? The economics don't add up to me, ROI can't be good, negative? Interest rates now mark the end of free money so once the venture capital cash gets burned through, how many have a viable business model? I don't see a price war, I see a lot of charging companies going bust.

@davidcottrell570 Ай бұрын

Just a thought, but in Norway with 50% overall EV ownership, aren’t the petrol stations converting more space to charging? Certainly, the electricity demands for a high volume 350kWh Tesla centre are up there, but some sites are using battery back-up to manage the throughput, charging overnight. We have On the run centres doing that here, but we go early in the day before the chargers run low on juice. No it isn’t cheap, but the cost of a new petrol station now has to be up there, so the profits must be realizable. The big thing is reliability, something Tesla has a better grip on than most.

@martynayshford4318 Ай бұрын

@@davidcottrell570 I don't think petrol forecourts make any money selling fuel, it is more about the shop and bringing customers into the destination. This is why supermarkets are in the fuel game. Same things also play into the charging space, but to a lesser extent. Petrol customer is in filled up, buys the overpriced snack and leaves, ideally to shop, lots of individuals basically. EV charging takes a lot longer so fewer customers over all. We'll see - but I don't see charging cost reducing no matter how much wishful thinking goes on unless the charging companies start making money, most are not even cash flow positive at the moment hence rather than costs reducing it's more likely companies will go bust.

@davidcottrell570 Ай бұрын

@@martynayshford4318 It depends who owns them. Where I live, more than 90% are owned by the oil companies themselves. They also play quite the game with pricing, which can vary by as much as 20 cents Canadian overnight. My wife drives an old VW Eurovan. Took her a while to get used to the electric, but when she realized it was costing us $1.50 for a 50km round trip vs $15 in hers, she adapted quickly. Yes, it’s tough on the charging sites as most charge at home, but equipment and reliability is improving, and you don’t need someone to come in and fill the tanks, service the pumps or check them for accuracy as frequently.

@TheTurnerservices Ай бұрын

First

@ilollipop100 Ай бұрын

Again reminding everyone why not to buy an EV. Never struggled to fill my ICE car and not about to start.

@davidcottrell570 Ай бұрын

And it took more than a century to reach that point. For those of us charging at home 99% of the time, your cries fall on deaf ears. Sadly, it seems that retail prices for fast charging in the UK are a bit of a boondoggle. In Canada, the average price is in the Cdn $.50-.70 (£.30-.40) range per kW/h, with domestic rates of $.14 (£.08) where we live. You need to ask yourself how long oil companies can go before they raise prices at the pump, and how the service costs for your ICE car will impact your choice as mechanic prices keep going up. Hopefully as the EV charge centres build out, a little healthy competition will moderate prices. Certainly our service costs are considerably cheaper.

@enyaq_gorm Ай бұрын

Your time line is a bit off. By 2017 I was happily charging all over the place on charge place Scotland. The tesla chargers were few and far between and more expensive. You seem to look at the world through tesla tinted glasses.

@robertpemberton8562 Ай бұрын

I’m sorry Dave, but your video assumes that everybody will move over to Tesla chargers overtime. This is utter rubbish. What will probably happen is the charging networks will buy out each other and there will be three or four big players in the market. You need to take your Tesla hat off from time to time where I live. There is only one Tesla supercharger open to the public, but there are dozens and dozens of public chargers available and more being built. Why would I drive 15 miles to a Tesla supercharger in the middle of the night to get cheap off-peak charging when Tesla charge nearly as much as my local charges at 65p at peak time

@rogerstarkey5390 Ай бұрын

Congratulations on having so many options! "You do you" . If "where you live" (unspecified?) Is that popular, it's logical that Tesla will increase their installations before long.

@PJWey Ай бұрын

Tesla set the standard for the others to follow. You’re welcome to charge where you want or can.

@AlanTov Ай бұрын

You’ll rattle the fan boys with that sacrilege.

@barronsclose 24 күн бұрын

I don’t think Dave is saying that at all.. he’s pointing out there is a cheaper alternative, and quite alot cheaper.. makes sense.. Ive not got a Tesla, however Tesla are miles ahead of the competition in the charger department especially with prices.. 85p is a crazy price.. I understand there 20% vat on the price so the government are still getting something from EV’s..

@petersimms4982 Ай бұрын

_-_-_-_- don't worry Dave batteries & solar panels are going to be so cheap by 2025 well all be charging at home for free, like the Ozzie's 😊

@stevenbarrett7648 Ай бұрын

Already doing that, been doing it for nearly 3 years now

@michaelgoode9555 Ай бұрын

More Tesla silly waving. It must have escaped Dave that not everybody wants or buys a Tesla.

@terrymackenzie6784 Ай бұрын

You don't have to

@AlanTov Ай бұрын

He doesn’t know much out of the Tesla marketing bubble tbh.

@PJWey Ай бұрын

Go watch TeslaBjorn please for some context

@ammass321 Ай бұрын

You Dave have been charged with too much cortisol being constantly in the vicinity of that much charge in condensed form. Do you think that everyrone has enough money or good pension schemes to be able to dick around from one charger to another day by day.

@mrmawson2438 Ай бұрын

A lot of Tesla owners get a little upset when a car is covering 2 chargers for 1 car thats not a Tesla

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

It’s a transition and the V4 solves that, have patience

@jimharrison3079 Ай бұрын

Insurance is harder to get and climbing and trade in values plummet. EVs are a joke and wait till road tax kicks in.

@st200ol Ай бұрын

Do Tesla pay you a commission Dave? 😂

@davetakesiton Ай бұрын

I’ve asked but they just say they are doing really well without me, so it would be a waste of money

@jacekzaku Ай бұрын

does not change the EV religious zealots as per above video clip

@rogerstarkey5390 Ай бұрын

Much of this will boil diwn to the question "hiw dies Tesla build, then install the units so quickly compared to others? . If the charger costs 4 times that of a Tesla unit, and the business needs to be profitable.... Dilemma?

@jcfallows Ай бұрын

Hi Dave, I've run an EV for 10 years. If the government want everyone to have an EV then they need to subsidise the charging stations as much as they do for public transport. I can charge at home for 7.5pence per KW that's a tenth of the rapid chargers some weekends i can charge for free or even get paid on smart tariffs. At 79ppkw petrol is cheaper per mile. 😊

@ClaudeMonecel Ай бұрын

You haven't a Clue what your Taking about

@johniooi3954 Ай бұрын

While prices are high compared to the actual electric cost. Do these people think that chargers grow out of the ground & cost nothing. Gridserve Gatwick took over a year to build. Cost in the land, materials etc. How much do people think it will have cost? Certainly well into the several millions. All of which has to be paid for. People need to get real & look long term. It will get cheaper, just take a few years.

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

Let's not forget the operators are getting large government grants and special tariffs when they install a charger. The problem is that they are expecting full returns in under 5 years and that's why charging is so expensive. Tesla however are looking more long term instead of quick gains and that's why they are cheaper.

@johniooi3954 Ай бұрын

@@davec1768 Not forgetting that Tesla are selling cars, so have a vested interest in their network, so in many ways partly self funding, unlike other Networks who are only there for the profit. I can only see Tesla will be the only winner in this war. Not a Tesla owner either.

@davec1768 Ай бұрын

@@johniooi3954 John, I believe that Tesla will end up making more money from charging than cars.

@srbs73 Ай бұрын

Sorry, that’s the most ridiculous logic I’ve heard! That’s like a new motorway service station opening and saying charging £5 a litre for petrol is okay. Gridserve Gatwick is more than just charging and they’ll make money on the extra services they provide. I have not problem with paying a premium - anything up to 50p kWh at current prices, but charging 70 to 85p is just a rip off. Many of these sites have no additional services that weren’t already there.

@kingwong5996 Ай бұрын

Tesla has reduced their membership fee from £10.99 to £8.99 for non tesla. Although it would better if tesla owner get their non tesla charged at the same price without having to pay for membership.