I think that if it weren't for stricter emission regulations, the rx8's renesis engine would've been massively better, more reliable and make more power ( as i think it was initially intended too). Ohh well, at least it keeps the car parts market going :P

Fact: I bought a new RX8 13 years ago. To this date I see in odometer 175.000 km with 1st engine. Compression test made recently and showed 7,0 and 7,2. The car's maintenance is under factory's standard and no modification ever made. It's still 100% as day 1. I speak only for my experience and I really love this car.

"An MX-5 is a total nugget car" - Oh, ok then :-(

The only thing wrong with a Mazda RX8 is unknowable owners.

"They're choked from the factory and you can't really hear them." Have you DRIVEN a RX-8? I owned a 2009 RX-8 for nine years and I assure you, the exhaust was the only goddamn thing I could hear after a while. Driving down the freeway, all I could hear was NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN for hours on end.

"About 150hp off where they need to be to be exciting" And you're one strong gust of wind off being bald.

I have a 09 rx8. Despite the lack of power, it's a fun car to drive.

2003's "BEST NEW ENGINE" 🤣 Oh, how times change...

Exhaust port from earlier 13b is designed for turbo

There's many things that make an engine great, and yes reliabilty is one of them, and I'm with you, rx8 reliability is shocking, but that doesn't mean it's a bad engine, what makes them great is how unique they are, the rev up so high and so willingly, the way they climb is so smooth and satisfying, and the sound can be amazing

A couple of things. The engine is wonderful for what it is. Not a single things wrong with it. It’s job was to make the maximum amount of power/torque in a production NA 13B while still being emissions compliant which it was until 2012. It also made the most power of any production NA rotary engine ever produced (238HP or 190whp vs. 150HP or 120whp in the S5 NA 13B - last NA production rotary before the Renesis). The reason the Renesis doesn’t make any power over stock with intake, exhaust and/or porting upgrades/modifications is simply because it already makes all of the power, it is a maxed out engine in stock form. Put simply the Renesis 13B is the perfected version of the NA 13B engine. Some things to keep in mind when comparing to older engines. 1. The Renesis is non-optional NA only (no turbo variant like the RX-7s - FD was non-optional twin turbo only) 2. The older NA rotarys did last quite a bit longer than the Renesis does on average, but that is largely due to the fact that they make substantially less power. If an older NA rotary engine is modified to make equivalent NA power/torque as the Renesis it will be substantially less reliable and horridly inefficient. 3. The Renesis is better in every category across the board compared to all prior production NA Mazda rotary engines. *Also just something to think about for comparison sake and why I see the Renesis as a far superior motor vs the older NAs. For my 1980 SA22C I’m building a 76-78 cosmo 13B large street port using a complete modified Renesis rotating assembly (rotors, eshaft, stat gears and a super lightweight flywheel). With the same porting and stock cosmo rotating assembly this engine made 154whp and 136 ft lbs of torque which is great considering the car only weighs 2,300 lbs, but regardless it’s still a rather weak motor. With the Renesis rotating assembly the 0.8:1 compression ratio increase should theoretically give me another 22whp (if I’m lucky) which would put me at 176whp from a fully built NA cosmo 13B which is equivalent to a worn and torn high mile Renesis.

As a guy who owns a number of FD’s and rx8’s, I track the rx8’s and had have zero issues with any of them. Standard engine unopened 55k miles+, Good breathing mods, run premix, up the oil pressure on the earlier models, lives on the redline. By far not a crap engine. Yes underpowered on long straights but still always in front of friends in Fords and civics and spend a lot less time with the bonnet open in the pits. When I get the chance to take go out for a drive I would have as much fun in my 09 R3 than I would in my fd’s. Always baffles me why people would buy a rotary powered car and put a Piston engine in. That is what the Rx models are all about.

Couldn't take my eyes off that vice. Seen it in bunnings. Definitely need one.

Swap it with the 13b from the previous generation RX-7

Great video. In my area I've seen half a dozen RX-8's for around 4k US dollars. What would the total build cost be if I threw out the renesis from day 1 and sourced a 13B REW using the rx8 transmission?

Excuse me?!?!?! What did you say about FCs?!?!?! Oh no you didn’t

Emissions killed the engine. That exhaust port is a disgrace.

I’d disagree that this car is boring to drive, while the renesis doesn’t make insane power it still revs to the moon and gets to any road going speed with ease. Also my RX8 just ticked over to 160k on original housings and irons, and I can buy a reman Mazda engine for $3800 with a $1000 core refund bringing it to $2800 SHIPPED. I’m sorry but please keep chevy engines out of these cars lmao

Can you swap the housings like have a renisis with a rx7 housing?

Great run down of the renesis engines limitations and drawbacks. Would you guys consider doing the same for the 12a? 12at? 13bt 20b? Thanks!

You're talking a lot of nonsense here, especially comparing that to twin turbo 13B or non standard NA 13B. Give Mazda some credit, be happy we got it and try to understand some things from another point of view that's not power, boost and burnouts. I would like to present the MSP as something we're happy to have in this day and age with all the restriction for car makers. (And again if You think it's unreliable underpowered trash, I will gladly give You my address and You can send all of that trash to me for free. I will gladly take the offer) 1. Try to build a non MSP 13B engine that passes legal emissions and inspection in that particular car with that kind of power and torque in the whole rev range and make it idle at 900 rpm like a civilised vehicle. The car was primarily intended for export to EU and USA. It's not an easy job to build a naturally aspirated rotary sports car with that good/stiff of a chassis in this day and age. Due to all DOT and ECE regulations about pedestrian/passenger safety + modern comforts it had to be stiff and heavy. Your ported carbed 13B with port timing for that kind of power levels would probably fail to move a heavy car with 18" wheels and gear ratios for German autobahn. MSP pulls linear from 0-235ish km/h and You can cruise comfortly at highway speeds. 2. Comparing this to an FD is again wrong in so many ways. FD3S is a wonderful child of Japanese bubble economy when overspending on projects was not an issue and technology was all out and something to brag about. You couldn't justify the retail price if You would have built it as a sequential twin turbo at the times of global economy crisis. The car wouldn't sell at all and wouldn't exist at all in this day and age. Today is even worse and it can't exist because it's not electric and millennials don't have interest in anything besides Jukes or Priuses. 3. It's again highest power NA rotary production car delivered from the brand that's damn reliable and repairable if You know what You're doing. If You compare the specific output with any Otto cycle engine with same displacement You will see that highly strung 1300cc 16V 4 cylinder race engines deliver about 200BHP at around 9k RPM and last about 20-30 HOURS in top form prepared by top people with top quality materials. If You compare with that, 100k-200k kilometers is decent, isn't it? 4. If one would consider apex seals as a consumable item (AND BEARINGS for those less sophisticated owners that don't do proper oil changes) and replaced them just like let's say a timing belt on Your average European modern diesel vehicle( that costs about the same to replace and it's due every 60000 Km), the engine would last forever if maintained well with proper oil changes and spark/coolant checkups. As it revs higher than ANY production rotary engine, apex seal wear quicker and are lighter/thinner to begin with. As they get thinner they tend to slip out from the rotor and burn out through the exhaust due to really high temperatures. Mazda's fault is that they probably couldn't afford to spend a lot of money to educate all these techs at the dealerships around the world to do preventative maintenance at service intervals. The whole story would be a lot of different and less expensive/less harsh for owners around the world and the reputation of the RX8 would probably be much better. Also housings are really really reusable and there is a lot of chrome left after some machining for many many kilometers or miles if You prefer. It can be refinished to a point and rechromed as well if You know what You're doing. Fuel economy sucks and if You're not mechanically inclined You should avoid MSP or any other rotary engine to begin with. If You accept it for what it is, it's a beautiful piece of machinery.

10k$ for an rx8 😂😂 they are 1-3k in Germany 🤣

nice vid boys , thanks to u guys i got rid of the squeal of my DBA t3 4000's . They were so bad i nearly gave up. After watching there's a right and left side (even thou they have no left and right orientation) i decided to swap left to right disc and its cured the squeal . At high speeds Ive never felt such braking force on these brembo's. Thanks again for the idea..

Is there much of a difference from a fc to a fd 13b?

Whats with all the miata hate lol? they are great cars that are incredibly fun and cheap to race. I'd take a stock na miata any day over some high horsepower fwd P.O.S. or even most AWD cars.

Come to the states rx8z are like 1500$-5000 Sold mine in 2011 miss the chassis but fc turbo is the one for me miss my s4 ! I need another rotary!

What if you machined a peripheral exhaust port and the end plate port with a custom manifold?

Great informative video, thanks fellas!

Block off the old x8 exhaust and drill a new hole where the x7 exhaust location is, and create a new manifold, problem solved.

Rx8 seems to make more power n/a then any of the other gen 13b's. Thinking about swapping one in a first gen.

Can you Frankenstein one together to make a good 13B??

Neat. You guys did a great job explaining the ins and outs of the 13b-MSP. Neat little engine, but you're right, it's terrible in comparison with some of the other rotaries.

With a good driver they will do same lap times as a HSV at Sandown. A great little cheap track car, but yes a bit under powered on the straights .

Say what you will be maybe underpowered I still love mine. And on a twisty tracked you should know the RX8 has the advantage. Definitely has flawss and a short lifespan. Driving a rotary engine is fun without question

I'm really curious about the renesis plate mated with earlier rx7 housing

What is your opinion on the series 2 engines? Torque is still disappointing but they addressed some of the lubrication issues.

my dad's got a rx8 evolve bought it with 11000 miles and now it's done 65000 thousand miles. With no issues with the car except a starter motor. People don't know how to look after and that's why the end up blowing up. And it's a really nice drive as well and loads of his mates have said how good of a driver it is. And completely different design to what other cars are out there they all look the same bring back RX8👍

So a stock renesis engine whose intake looks like a bridge port makes as much peak power as a bridge port 13b but is more drivable and quieter. OK you guys are boost addicts and it wasn't engineered for boost. It pisses all over a stock 13b. It needs to be a four rotor. A four rotor N.A. would make almost 500hp. Why don't Mazda use 3 spark plugs per rotor like in the 787b? Why don't they just detune the LeMans engine?

Having a BHR built MSP, basic greddy turbo kit and a pro tune, its how it should have come from the factory, or a 20bMSP. It would have added to the cost, but it would have been unreachable in stock form for the 350z and s2k in that day. Mine is at 260-270hp with the stock greddy kit, and it so much more of a car than it was stock its insane, the torque alone makes it.

Where can i find some more info on the rx8 engine running FD housings ?

We could have talked for another hour on the unfortunate down sides to this engine. What else would you add to the list of negatives for the engine in the RX8?.... or alternatively, what are some of the positives ??

Keep driving prices down. I'm fine with that. I'll take the 8's suspension geometry over any other car out there. I do have another idea after my current rotary project is done. I'm going take a reny, shove it in a corvette and scrap the LS. Thanks for the inspiration.

Everything is only as good as you look after it. My father used to say ' even the strongest engine some idiot will manage to break it"

how much water do i put in with 2 cups of rice in one of these rice cookers i need to get my carbs up so i can go out and fry the tyres on my lsa and feel some real power

The renesis is amazing! Once you learn to shift in its sweet spot at 6k rpm it's plenty powerful

We take a quick look at why the Mazda RX-8 Renesis 13B-MSP rotary engine has a reputation for poor reliability and it's inability to make horsepower compared to older generations of the 13B twin rotor engine.

-I own a 2010 RX-8. Bought it at 4 years old after someone had it on a lease for 4 years(40k). The engine crapped out a few years later at 80k, and I had the engine replaced by a used engine with 30K on it. It runs well. -Recently, the repair shop flooded the car by not running it long enough when they moved it, and they had to use a tow to pull it to get it started. The good news was that before that they replaced the plugs and sprayed ATF fluid in the engine. Whatever they did, It now as a lot of power. It is quicker off the block and if you don't watch yourself on the highway, you can go 90-100 mph without even feeling it. -I love this car, but you have to know what it is. It handles like a dream. Sooooo good. -It is smiles per gallon, not miles for gallon. Enjoy!!!

Did they move the exhaust port to the same plate so the inlet temps are warmer and the fuel doesn't fall out of suspension so easy when cold ? The centre of the rotor really needs the 3rd oil injector like the later models but the emissions will always be high due to this oiling.

FC's awful to drive..... well good sir, i disagree. I think. I dont really have a way of comparing but. I think a similar video to this but going through why you feel that way would be a good watch. Having said that, mines 90% aftermarket suspension wise and hard mounted haha.

Look at RX8 prices in the UK. Almost £free Gotta be a good easy engine conversion out there?

Did you pull that renesis from a series 1 or series 2 rx8? There is a massive difference in the wear rate. Due to oil injector difference

My 1st car was an FC Turbo. Sold it after 2 years and got the MX5 ND. The MX5 is a great car but did not feel the same. Sold the MX5 and recently bought a absolutely mint 1 lady owner 86’ FC NA with 92xxx km over a Series 2 RX8 with much less km. Also a rebuild for the Renesis is around $2k more than a 13B from the Fc and FD. The only RX8 is worth buying is the Spirit R version. In Japan, they are worth around the same as the FD starting from $30,000 USD.

yeeess yeeeess (rubs hands together) bring those RX8 values down! keep a great car cheap! if you have an IQ of over 80 (I know thats difficult for LS and BMW owners) then you shouldn't have a problem rebuilding, making and keeping them reliable especially a weekend secondary car. whens the last tine you drove your fun, weekend car 200k miles?

Only reason why they're unreliable is cuz people dont know how take take care of one. Probably like you guys lol

Finally, this must be the only comparison video on YT.

Did you just call the GT-86 and MX-5 nugget cars? How the fuck do you drive on the roads that you actually need that much HP? The RX-8, while being insanely inefficient, was an absolute blast to drive and is, to this day, one of my favorite attainable sports cars. Try harder lads.

When you design a engine that works thats totally different from internal combustion engines, i'll listen to you. Any buddy and talk shit on someone elses accomplishments. The rotary needs improvement just like every other engine on the market. But its a amazing powerplant, with only 3 major moving parts

But rRotoryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Have you not seen the triangle! Are you not entertained!!!!!!!

The reason why the housings *seem* bad is the recommended oil for the RX-8. Mazda recommend 5w-30 oil for an engine that already runs quite hot, so it meant little lubrication was available. But, if you run 15w-40 or 20w-50, you can expect better housings in the long run. The 5w-30 was for getting an extra 0.0001 mpg, that's it. Also, underpowered? 230 hp in a 1300 kg car is pretty peppy, and it's not intimidating to drive with a bit of gusto.

What wiil happen if you put together an renesis plates with fc s4 13btll housings and internals..????

I love the RX8, it’s great..... for business 🤣🤣😝

Show me another 1.3 naturaly assperated car that will outperform it. PS as with any performance car if you don't look after it then it will blow up!

I love your use of nugget.

Is the Rx8 engythat bad? 177 kw,ild 13B efi 130,

@carthrottle

The problem with the engine is that it's not a Barra.

Sadly the lack of power is it’s dilemma. So getting rew and 8374 instead. 😋

I remember when talked to the Mazda guy at the LA auto show when the RX8 was still coming. That guy said the tye RX8 takes everything good about the 13B an gets rid of all the flaws of the 13B. It was to be the perfect rotory. If I saw that guy today I'd punch him in the face

Great video chaps thanks my mates got a rx8 that don't start half the time ... ill now tell him it's a bag of kack lol

Nobody was talking about how awful the RX8 "is" until a couple of months ago . Kids on the internet bashing a perfectly good car.

This “flaw” in the exhaust system is actually a benefit if you switch to gsl se housings you can have 6 ports

I was going to like the video till he said he'd LS swap a rx8. That's the last thing I expect to hear from rotary specialist

You guys really hate the rx8 don't ya. ther is a lot of things that you can do to prevent all of the above from happening

I'm definitely doing to do an engine swap to my rx8 when i need a rebuild.

lots of blown/worn out RX8's in the UK, some as little as £500..

If the exhaust is so much better coming directly through the rotor housing instead of side plate then why not do that on the intake side?

Too bad. Doritos got stale I guess.

BARRA SWAP IT!!!! :P

What about the series 2 rx8?

Didn't early rx8 owners get a free engine replacement from the dealership for a recall? What was the problem with the first batch of engines?

I feel sorry for Alex from carthrottle

Mazda Zoom Zoom Zoom. Brap brap brap ! Brahhahahhahahap

It's not awful .. the demand in hp is 600hp .minimum these days... and these engines should be in a motorcycle car/something small

I have an FD and spoke with my mechanic about the renesis engine, I heard one of the best things to do to the rx8 is to just very slight port the edges of the exaust port as there is usually carbon buildup in that area plus gain another 20hp. Also to have the largest oil coolers on both sides or at least a large single if automatic

rx8 needs a barra lol

Renesis = shit

could you use an rx7 housing on the rx8 plate?

Here in Alabama the rx8 rarely ends up in a used car lot. Usually on classified listings you can pick one up for $1500-$2000. Seen one last week 2 for $2500. Lol

LS wins again

you don't buy a RX8 for the engine , you buy it for the chassis , rigged as fuck!

I think it's funny how people say the Renesis engine couldn't make power and then ignore that it is the most powerful non-turbocharged production rotary that Mazda ever made. It actually had more power than the RX-7 turbo and wasn't that far behind the 1992 RX-7 twin turbo engine...without forced induction.

Wonder if anyone’s done a 20b setup using all rx8 components?

Pretty... pretty...pretty bad explanation of exhaust port area requirements.... What you said about exhaust gasses taking up more volume etc and thus needing a bigger exhaust port than intake is exactly what piston engine designers of the pre 1930s thought, hence flathead engines had larger exhaust valves and ports than the intake.... and since the 40s we've swapped it around. The reason being you can pump gasses out far more efficiently under pressure than by drawing it in under vacuum.... while I agree the renesis is an awful rotary do not confuse people about exhaust cross sectional area requirements.

You dont have to have a lot of power to have fun in a car. The BRZ/86 and the MX-5 are good track cars. RX-8 would make a great track car if it had more torque.. Power is adequate.

The reason why you think the side seal clearance is too high is because you're not measuring it correctly. The side seal is tapered so in order to check the clearance correctly the side seal has to be pushed down and wedged with feeler gauges. Once you do that the clearance will be much tighter- .002=.004" Also, you're comparing a turbo RX7 engine to a Naturally aspirated RX8 engine. The older natrually aspirated 13b engines didn't make anywhere near the power of the Renesis engine at factory specs. The only way to make more power was to port them. The worse thing you can do to a Renesis engine is baby them and build a bunch of carbon inside the engine. They like to be ran hard, like all rotaries

You do not understand, the RX8 is not a race car to be modify its a normal daily drive car been abused by people that think they are smarter than engineer designers, My RX8 Hi Power got 167000 km on the clock and still start every time up

Really good information. Thanks a million for this video!

now the Series 1 Rx8s are like 3000-5000 dollars here in Australia :(

Wow no wonder why they got so much dislikes.

I have the original starter motor, 100k kms on the odo with no rebuilds and it starts just fine, hot or cold. All I did was put some LS coils on.