Pumped for this😊! Just loaded a plane, will watch as soon as we land. God bless!

As a recovering Jehovah's Witness it is important for me (and others) to remember: You can be confident and WRONG!

When I lost my son I begged and pleaded with God. I literally weeped the question, “my God, who can bare to lose their son?” He spoke to my heart “I can”. And with those two simple words I was flooded in my thoughts of Jesus on the cross, and the broken heart of God. In that moment. I also immediately understood that though my son would not come to me, I would surely go to him. And until that day, I could trust my grief and broken heart to God. Because he truly understands my grief. I do believe God speaks to us, but I really don’t know about all the words of prophecy we see being passed out like mints. That’s my experience. It was beautiful. And it was for an experience I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy if I had any.

I’ve never heard of the “hyper-charismatic” movement, but I do agree that people can idolize the gifts of the spirit, particularly prophecy. However, in these discussions we also have to be careful to not demonize the gifts of the Spirit. These gifts have been and are mishandled, by those who have been incorrectly taught or have followed the examples of others who are mishandling these gifts. That’s why no matter which side of the aisle you are on, you MUST have a cultivated, personal relationship with the Lord, not one that hinges in the spiritual walk of others.

The thing that rocked me out of the Charismatic Movement was when Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign. After that, all things fell into place.

The hyper charismatic movement really broke my heart because I wasn't experiencing the things they were talking about. The hearing the "still small voice of God" or having the consistent visions. I thought "What is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? Am I even saved? Why am I not having this experience?" So I was in a lot of pain because of that. I wanted to hear from God in that way too. Well, the Lord led me to sound teaching, studying His word and a biblically sound church where they do expository preaching. And a lot of that worry and concern has left me because I am hearing sound teaching and relying on Scripture rather than what someone else may have to say, even if they say it in a very confident way. And I am so grateful. So grateful to the Lord. He is so merciful and gracious. And in a way, I am glad that I had that experience because now I love the Word and I am learning slowly but surely because the Lord teaches me.

It's VERY encouraging to see young Christians coming into MATURITY.

Great video! I don't quite know how to explain it, but it feels like the hyper charismatic movement promotes things that are ultimately carnal: prosperity, feel-good messages, giving to get, how to get our own way. Living the disciplined life is not emphasized - because it doesn't feel good. I was in this movement for 29 years and am so happy to be free of it. I no longer go to church to focus on improving myself and getting my ego stroked. I am no longer there to feel the "wow factor" at the next sign or wonder. I want to love God for who He is, not for how He can entertain me at my demand. I go to church to worship God and learn about walking with him as a disciple, in a disciplined life in the Word of God.

I went to a Women's Aglow meeting and this woman was giving words of knowledge . She told me not to worry that I will find someone to marry . I was already married , I had no wedding ring at the time . I shied away from charismatic movement ever since .

I completely agree! Some KZfaqrs seem more like “psychics” with a christian label. It has such a strong impact on believers and unbelievers alike. As Christians, we really have to sieve/filter/test what we hear and, to do that, we need a deeper understanding of the Bible.

I’ve never been hyper-charismatic, but it sounds so much like being in an abusive marriage-always wondering what is wrong with yourself, not able to question the abusive spouse, and always hoping some big change is right around the corner.

“not touching the anointed “ is exactly why these people are titling themselves and setting themselves up as ‘prophets’ and ‘apostles’ , it puts them outside of correction while keeping everyone else in the arena of guilt and control.

Prophecy should NEVER just be taken and believed without weighing it, judging it, and rolling it back on God. Paul instructed us to do so. We have to be careful not to demonize prophecy and cause people to be afraid of it. Paul said it's the greatest gift because it builds up and encourages the whole body. Scripture tells us prophecy shouldn't be despised. Let's no throw the baby out with the bath water. Rather, let's get better at weighing and judging prophecy before we just naively believe everything someone speaks as a word from God. Let's continue growing in our faith and into the stature of Christ.

I am a Pentecostal pastor. I rarely prophecy. On one occasion, I was praying for a couple whose circumstances were a complete mystery to me. They later said they were disappointed I prayed for them because I didn't know their circumstances. As I approached them to pray for them, I waited for a Holy Spirit lead about how I should pray. It felt like 2 or 3 minutes. I "saw" a "T" intersection. To the right was a beautiful, attractive, easy looking journey. Full of obvious promise, and joy. To the left was what looked like a highway through a barren desert. There was sand, and rock, for as far as the eye could see. The "word" I had for them was, after I'd described what I'd seen,"Take the hard road, that is where God is for you." They said they left the meeting feeling disappointed. Eighteen months later they came back to town to visit family and friends. They sought me out and told me about their attitudes and disappointments the day I prayer for them, but they did so with joy. They said they decided to trust God and took the hard road. As a result, they had "been through the ringer" and had come out the other side strengthened in their faith, having grown closer to God, and having had to immerse themselves in the Word like they never had before. Their walk had changed and they had developed new habits of studying the Word and praying. God uses people to prophecy; however, in my experience it's far less frequently than we might hope, or have been taught.

I think it’s good they left the hyper-charismatic movement, but still open to the gifts of the spirit… seems like they’re on a good path to finding balance.

I became an addict of going to healing conferences! I struggle with Lyme disease and was told I didn’t have enough faith and that’s why I am not healed! I would go from conference to conference wanting someone….anyone to lay hands on me for my healing!!! I was chasing the healing not the healer!!!! I am no longer in this place and still struggling with Lyme disease but more stable in my faith ❤️ thank you for this encouraging video!

I was a worship leader and pastor in the “hyper charismatic” movement for 20 years. There is an underlying concept in regards to the prophetic emphasizing partnership with God and the idea of “prophetic potential”. They believe the “word” is from the Lord, but we need to partner with that word. Faith, action, prayer, giving are just a few example of ways we work with God to have the word come to pass. The reason why it’s rare for so-called prophets to speak of their past misses is because they don’t think they’re actually misses. Either people didn’t pray enough, have enough faith or position themself in “alignment for the word to come to pass”. The psychological damage done to people is tremendous.

Me and my wife tried for 15 years to get pregnant, when we went to a frank viola conference In Germany, A random German woman came to her and said she was pregnant! My wife laughed, but 9 months later,our daughter Aria was born!! Then 10 months after that our son was born. This was 13 years ago!

Thank you for bringing up this issue in the church. A lot of Christians in this movement push themselves to do something or want something more “spiritual” so that they can feel more spiritual or feel closer to God.

We left a “mini bethel” for lack of a better word for many reasons discussed here. The constant fortune telling was just obnoxious on top of the fake healings. It was always something to do with sore shoulders and leg pains or even an energy drink addiction. Never cripples or cancer and zero focus on sin repentance and the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ reconciling us to God by Grace through faith in His work on the cross.. the debt has been paid through His substitutionary death. Great interview wonderful to see

I used to go to a hyper charasmactisim church. People had to be at church every time the doors were open, sometimes, it was 6 days a week or you were looked down upon . Most of the sermons were about the five fold and spiritual gifts. Sometimes, only the five fold were able to get prayer after the sermon. If you didn’t have the gifts you were left out of special meetings or special church get togethers. These special meetings were also about gifts.

What I have experienced with word of faith movement for the brief time I was in it was that if I didn’t pray hard enough over something to pass than it was my lack of faith. As I began reading the Bible and studying more as a new believer, I asked several questions over this and realized that’s not the Bible talks about in all the stories. I would say as with all new believers be careful who you listen and follow because the enemy will lead you astray from the truth of the Bible! Stay Focus on Jesus and put whole Armor of God each day!

The worst part of charismania for me was all of those prophecies that never came to pass.oh the devastation and confusion.constant deliverances,always about to have breakthrough,it was exhausting and left me restless at the same time.no comparison to the true peace of god ,the simplicity of the cross and gospel,and the contentment His pure word brings.

This one really hits home, I almost lost my faith because a church told me I didn't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I didn't speak in tongues. It hurt a long time I prayed about it all the time and then I tried to fake it. Thankfully I found some better teachers to help me

I watched Paul & Morgan for a while, but because some of their charismatic beliefs, I stepped back. Excited to watch this!!

This is a breath of fresh air for me. I've been backslidden for some time, but recently I've been seeking to return to God. I've watched a number of videos lately regarding near death experiences, how people met the light, and how they've been changed, and I wanted something like that. But Morgan's story of how God told her no when she wanted a prophetic word, resonated with me. His scripture is sufficient, and the Holy Spirit must deal with us personally. Thank you for this.

Yesssss! When I saw Paul and Morgan’s video on leaving the hyper charismatic church, I thought “they should talk to Melissa Dougherty,” and, low and behold, you had already commented!

There are extremes everywhere. You can get extreme charismatic or people like wretched who believes the Holy Spirit doesn’t speak to people today. Sometimes we hyper expose others constantly but we don’t recognize where our extremes are .. God have mercy on all of us xoxoxo

As an old man (70), I thank God for young believers like the three of you! You continue to share Jesus to the next generation, and I praise God for your faithfulness. It is reassuring to know that long after the Lord takes me home (anytime now, Lord Jesus!) the Good News of our glorious Lord will continue to be preached until he returns! In Him

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said "The Lord told me"" I'd be a multi millionaire..

This is the reality we were confronted with in our spirit 30+ years ago. It was the same false spirit back then.. the devil is a liar and God is always faithful to His word!! God’s word over man’s word always!!

Your experience in the hyper-charismatic church is so similar to mine! My husband and I moved to a new city and joined a new church, but had not been exposed to the charismatic movement before. We spent two years super involved, before a wake-up call caused us to pay attention to some red flags. We noticed there was a constant seeking of spiritual experiences, and anything supernatural that seemed to take place was attributed to the Holy Spirit, but realized that we NEVER see the Holy Spirit work that way, in scripture (except, maybe, in the initial Pentecost). After that realization, all the not-quite-biblical practices and sayings started jumping out at us, whether it was a "word" that didn't align with scripture, the encouraging of the congregation to speak in tongues, women regularly preaching (and being consistently completely wrong in their biblical interpretations), offering classes for how to hear God's voice and become a prophet, and still, attributing physical "stirrings" in the air of the building to the Holy Spirit. We finally left when a friend got up, gave a "word" that was not scriptural, came off the stage, and fell on his face like he was possessed (again, attributed to the working of the Holy Spirit). We were scared and shaken up. The craziest part was, we left suddenly and without explanation after two years of being super involved and building some wonderful relationships, and not a single person reached out to me, ever!

I got saved at 27 yrs old. I'm 62 now. But I began to be exposed to some of this even back then. I've come to see people were putting more faith in their faith than in God. Some actually left because they didn't think they had enough faith. Anytime I bumped against that belief system, I always thought I was missing something. I used to think, "maybe I'm not as close to God as they are" or "maybe something's wrong with me". Until an elderly lady prophesied over me once way back then. She said I would be successful! I left that meeting telling my friend, "I can't even hold down a job". She replied, "maybe she meant successful in the Lord". And that's what I've always held on to. Almost my whole family is born again today. "Faith as small as a mustard seed." But where will you put that faith? In your faith? Or in the Lord Jesus Christ? JESUS! Come fellowship with us the next time you're in New Orleans... Lakeview Christian Center! Thank you!

Thank you for this! I just recently came out of the hyper Charismatic Movement and this was so comforting. I’ve felt massive depression and confusion and been isolated because I have spent the entirety of my 27 years in this movement and to hear it took them 3 years to really digest and to not go to the other extreme from one extreme was so so helpful. Thank you guys so much for telling the truth and sharing your experiences. Praise Yah 💛

I love this interview so much. The way they handled leaving was way better than I myself did lol. It’s hard to leave this movement without feeling broken-hearted and bitter and I think they’ve done a great job at not letting those two things creep in. I especially love the fact that they didn’t leave this movement and start making fun of it or the things that that go on inside of it. I’ve heard a lot of pastors on KZfaq belittle and make fun of the people in this movement and mock them for it. All around Paul and Morgan handled this interview with grace.

This was a wake up call for me. I can get good teachings but I neglect time in the word and in prayer if not careful. Thank you all.

This video has really hit home for me. As a former catholic/charismatic Pentecostal/ just spiritual I can understand the difficulty and problems. Prophecies and speaking in tongues caused many issues with my faith during my chrismatic period and led me away from christianity for a while. Fortunately God did not give up on me and redeemed me. Charismatic tend to become victim to pride because of the need to display they have the gifts. While the truth is in-between, everything needs to come back to gods word. No one should ever be confident in there understanding and should always work to take a better understanding of the scripture and trust not in their own understanding. I am now pursuing my masters in divinity and focusing on apologetics too. God is good all the time. Thank you again for sharing and God bless...

It makes me feel so much better when Morgan is talking about feeling "seen". I grew up in the pentecostal movement (my dad is a pastor). I remember going to conferences or larger church services, standing there at the altar call, and seeing all these people getting "prophetic words" and feeling left out. I kept thinking maybe I'm not doing something right or maybe I'm not "called" in anything. At the end of the day, the hyper-charismatic movement does feel like this odd exclusive club because they put so much pressure on spiritual gifts.

Great video! I too came out of the hyper-Charismatic movement this year and can identify with this couple. It is uncanny that so many "prophets" predicted Trump's victory, yet not a single "prophet" ever foresaw the civil unrest or the global pandemic approaching. From my perspective, these "prophets" build alluring intrigue through a platform of book sales and notoriety, humorous stories, eloquent messages, and current events intended to create personal gain for their audience. No wonder why so many fall prey and become addicted.

I put this on the living room TV to listen to, because I needed to not comment before I listened wholly. As someone who has been out of this, and New Age for years now…. I’m still just so cagey when I hear people talk this way. I’m glad they have come out, and I pray that more Truth be illuminated to them every day. More truth and sanctification. Thank you for sharing this interview, even tho I require a cage right now. Hahaa we have to discuss this more, and this is the only way. 🙏🏽♥️🙏🏽

Thanks for this Melissa. This was just in time, just yesterday I felt outside of the 'realm' of the supernatural with people having all the gifts of tongues and so on. I read Corinthians and I saw Paul saying that tongues if there's no interpreter should be done quietly and it bothers me during worship that my fellow believers do this. This video helped me to know how to pray and approach it with my friends at church. I get to pray and ask God how to approach this with humility and love knowing that I came out of it❤️

So encouraging and fun to hear this discussion. God bless y’all. Love from Texas.

I really think it is all about power. Special power. I was in this situation for 9 years and finally had enough. 20 years later, now channels like yours are confronting this and analyzing properly and scripturally. I still struggle with the suspicion I have for church leadership, or even my own understanding of doctrine/application. Years of relearning and study and still I struggle. The only thing that got me out of the toxic church environment I was in was knowing scripture. Knowing the Bible-the WHOLE COUNSEL of scripture-is essential. No substitutes.

The saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", seems like it fits in this conversation. There are many in the hyper charismatic church that believe in it, but there are far more that know it's fake. Especially the ones leading it.

This is an invaluable interview. I'm saving this video in one of my playlists so I can use this as a reference video for my Charismatic/Apostolic/Pentecostal/NAR friends so they can at least see where I'm coming from and why I don't feel guilty about leaving the hyper-charismatic lifestyle. In my real life circles, it feels like my wife and I are the only ones who came out of this, which can leave one feeling alone without any "back-up" but it's encouraging to see people out there (especially young married couples like myself) who are also coming out of this superficialality/sensationalism and into a new found reverance and understanding for God's word as well finding true rest in our Lord. God bless 🙌

This interview was so good! Thank you Melissa & Paul/Morgan for doing this! I have been on a similar journey having grown up in the hyper-charismatic movement & then leaving it after watching American Gospel. I remember not being able to speak in tongues or never having heard God audibly. Growing up there were times I was afraid I wasn’t saved or didn’t have the Holy Spirit’s power in me. This thinking can be so damaging & it lead to me being lead by my emotions & not grounded in God’s Word. I especially liked how Paul mentioned being wise to not swing to the other camp automatically. It’s easy when you’re hurt by a theology to swing to the other side.

Great Interview Melissa! Paul and Morgan, so much of your experience and what you described I can relate to. My heart hurts for those of us who have been duped and disillusioned by this cultist movement. I'm in the 6th year after leaving a moderately hyper charismatic group. I have had to repent of behaving and believing as if Jesus is not enough. God has brought much spiritual healing, and reestablished a biblical truthful mindset in me. I am so thankful and grateful that God pursues us no matter where we are! Thanks again for sharing your story!

In my country we have the same thing happening. A lot of prophetic utterances... but when they don't come to pass (which is most of the time) you are made to feel as though you did something to make it not come to pass. You didn't receive it, you didn't believe it enough.... you failed to birth it and bring it forth. With that, no one is held accountable to their prophetic words.

29:00-30:00 how could we just move on to the next thing like nothing happened.... MOST poignant statement!! How can you know that someone just LIED about representing God and speaking as if they were God and just move on and continue to be led by them?! That hit me so hard. Thank you guys for being so honest and gentle in your sharing. 💜

I've been waiting, and longing for this video longer than I realize! So pumped!!😁 Love seeing a couple of my faves come together

Love this, very edifying and glad to see these two on a walk with the lord, I know this pain, for 20 years I thought I was UNWORTHY to go to a church because I had fallen, but in th elast 10 years of learning THE WORD, boy was I wrong. ;)

This was a great conversation. I feel like my husband and I have a lot of similarities to these two in our own experiences.. I felt like they were telling a lot of our story. This us such an important conversation to have and the grace extended is a must for those in these movements still. Thank you for this all!

Thanks Melissa for another great video, at this moment I'm 50 minutes into it. Coming from being Baptist originally, then Pentecostal/Charasmatic, I have come to the conclusion of the need to just be grounded in the Word. Seeing videos of ppl coming out of the Charasmatic movement, and others always attacking Charasmatics, makes one do examination on why, and my thoughts is, to stay in boundaries of scriptures. Even Paul said to "examine all things, hold fast to that which is good."

Thank you for this episode Melissa. This is a message that so desperately needs to get out to people. God bless you.

Thank you for this lovely, open conversation. I’ll check out Paul and Morgan.

Thank you for this interview!! I love the honesty and kindness that you all showed. It's important to talk about this uncomfortable topic and shed light on the truth. Praise God.

Haven't watched the video yet but am looking forward to it later. I used to watch Paul & Morgan until I realized they were in the charismatic movement and I cut ties. Happy to hear they're leaving it!

"What's more than Jesus? Nothing!" Amen, Morgan.

Thank you for this! The more I have learned about this movement, the more I've struggled with "hyper judgement". I also don't want to swing that far on the pendulum. Truth in love!

This is an excellent interview - my brother and sister in law were charismatic worship leaders and they have largely deconstructed. I respect this young couple so much and that they watched the AG movie a 2nd time but this was an amazing example how the modern seeker sensitive church (I'm not even bashing charismatics, its pretty much the standard church model) it shows how church goers are being inoculated against the gospel - they literally cannot hear it because its too offensive - we don't attract people to church with the gospel, but pretty much whatever tickles their ear.

So exciting that you’re now friends with Paul and Morgan! I’ve been following their channel (and yours) for several years now and it’s very interesting to see how all of you have grown in your faith

I had a friend who was professional wrestler back in the 70's. He became a charismatic preacher for pretty much the rest of his life. For years I would ask him for his opinions on Wicca and he always said that it was nothing but satanism with a different face. I was always fascinated with the occult and I was heavily involved with the Golden Dawn system of ceremonial majick for over 10 years. My friend repented from his involvement with the charismatic/word of faith cult and about 8 years ago I repented from my involvement and obsession with the occult. One of the biggest problems I had with Christianity was the whole word of faith circus.I was asked if I wanted to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.Two women laid their hands on me and began praying in tongues. I knew right away that it wasn't the Holy Spirit, but Tantric Kundalini yoga.I never set foot in any charismatic churches again. When I first began my intense study of the Bible and the New Testament in particular I found that many things that I heard being taught as biblical fact are things that aren't clearly laid out in the word of God. The real paradigm shift for me was finding a guy named David Nikeo Wilcoxon who pointed me to some of the best preachers who've ever lived namely: Henry Gratten Guinness E.B.Elliott Ralph Woodrow Charles Haddon Spurgeon David Vaughn Elliott Steve Wohlberg All I can say is that it's been an amazing journey, but I've lost a lot of friends over my research on many topics and doctrines.

So glad you did this video. I’ve been on this journey for the last 2 years.

How amazing to see these two! I found their channel a couple years ago, and some of the things they would say just would make me pause. I had stopped following their channel...more so due to generational differences, but a small part due to some of the "iffy" things they'd say when they would speak about faith matters. How amazing to see the growth in these two now! God really draws his children closer to Him!

As an atheist, I truly enjoy Melissa‘s content. I believe she’s very honest. To watch Paul and Morgan’s transition has been nice to see as well. As an atheist, I agree with the concerns about the charismatic and hyper charismatic movements. I claim to be an atheist, not because I believe God doesn’t exist, but because I’m not sure if whether or not he does or doesn’t. I’ve been in charismatic and hyper charismatic churches, spent the last few years in scripture studies, research after research… The more I study the word, the less I become convinced that God actually exist. But I still keep an open mind just in case God wants to reveal himself in a way that my mind can’t believe. While I’m in this journey, I notice the abuse and harm hyper charismatic has been causing. It’s not the main reason why I’m not Christian, but it’s one of the reasons. Thank you for showing this honest conversation. I don’t know if you three would eventually transition into atheism, maybe these conversations strengthen your belief in God, I’m just happy that these conversations are being had.

When I was Word of Faith, we had a "hit-list" of favourite scriptures we would declare. I don't recall being encouraged or taught to search for context, ever. I have heard thousands and thousands of sermons based on a portion of scripture plucked from the middle of a passage and interpreted to fit the chosen theme of the message. Two examples of that which drives me nuts is Luke 6: 38 and Malachi 3: 8-12. As a Pentecostal pastor, I preach the Word very differently now.

@Paul and Morgan my wife and I have been out of the charismatic church for a little over a year now. This video was so good and so many of the same things we have had to relearn from a biblical perspective. It felt like the rug was pulled out from our feet when our eyes were opened to the truth. Praying for y’all and thank you for being so open to share y’all’s experiences!

Did not see this coming!! Love watching both of yall .. thanks for helping me grow more into the light of a lot of issues ... Thanks also for bringing me closer to God!

This was much needed today. Im in the same place in my Christian walk as they are, coming out of the hyper charismatic and asking all of these same questions. This video and many of yours are encouraging. Thank you for videos like these Melissa! ❤️

Love this collab! I’ve been watching both channels for a while and am so glad to see Paul, Morgan, and Melissa having a conversation. Thank you for getting this message out there! I love what you are doing an am so thankful for these videos!

Literally got so excited when I saw that you did a interview video with them!!🤗👏🎉

This was an excellent interview. The reflective questions about what they were thinking at the time and their honesty in reply is very thought provocative and interesting to me. I do not have any experience in the movement but see pieces of their reflection and yours about what it looks like when you are looking in and desperately wanting the "shiny thing". We see it creeping into traditional reformed churches and don't understand what "bothers" us....everything needing to be major event instead of just God's people coming together to worship their Lord. It encourages me to stand firm in the Word and go to the Word. It is also very beneficial to "see" their heart for God and have a better understanding of what an honest conversation about our faith looks like. I really appreciate your videos and they help me grow in empathy and understanding of others and are such good examples of how to hold important conversations.

I’m so glad Paul and Morgan got out, I remembered watching a video where they sort of defended Bethel, saying they were strange just not necessarily wrong. I stumbled upon them around the time I was leaving myself and just decided to pray for them. Many others commented they were going to pray for them too. God is good!

This was great! Thank you Paul and Morgan for sharing your story with us. Melissa I think you did such a great job at leading this conversation/interview. Thanks you guys!

Oh my goodness! Thank you so much for this amazing interview. I think soooooo many can relate to this and the questioning of even BEING saved due to comparing ourselves to all these KZfaq channels that get a dream, vision and word daily. This was so incredibly helpful

I think there is so much good and needed information in this interview. Thank you very much.

Love this! I have watched Paul and Morgan for years! I didn’t always agree with some things they believed but still loved their content! 💗 They are a blessing on KZfaq! Great video Melissa! 💗

Thank you, Melissa, Paul, and Morgan! This is the kind of thing it's going to take to bring balance to this set of theological beliefs. I grew up in the discipleship wing of the Charismatic Movement, and I remember as a young boy when the Charismatic Renewal broke out in the late 70's to early 80's. I can attest to the fact that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are real, and I have had many, many authentic encounters with God speaking to me-and using me and others around me in supernatural encounters throughout my life. So I am far from being a cessationist when I say that the root of the problem with Charismatic teaching today is threefold: 1. They have a poor framework for studying, understanding, and applying the Scriptures in context as a foundation for their beliefs. Rather than allowing the Scriptures to create the boundaries which test the validity of their experiences, they are allowing their subjective experiences to bend their understanding of the Scriptures. 2. They are confusing emotionalism with the presence and activity of the Holy Spirit. You guys are very kind, but let's just be clear-and I can say this because I have lived most of my life in the Charismatic movement, and still believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit-a LOT of people are simply making stuff up. They are so driven to experience the supernatural that they cannot fathom the idea that God might not want to work that way. And when He doesn't, they feel like they need to make something happen, and the quickest way to do that is by employing theatrics to emotionally manipulate the situation, and then by calling these simulated experiences the move of the Holy Spirit. This kind of fakery can only lead to damage the witness of the true Gospel, and it needs to stop. It is one thing to express oneself with great emotional passion using music in worship-and I'm certainly not opposed to this; we see this in the Tanakh (the 'Old Testament') with David. It is completely another thing to use emotionalism as a brainwashing tool to fool someone into believing they are having a supernatural encounter with God for the purpose of propping up one's own reputation. 3. Their measure of 'success' is a supernatural encounter. This runs contrary to the biblical Great Commission to make disciples of all nations. Even those on the 'better' end of the spectrum-those who are using 'power evangelism'-using healing and miracles for the purpose of evangelizing the lost, are not understanding that the evidence of the Holy Spirit's activity in a person's life is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, not the gifts. Our goal is to have our lives transformed by the Holy Spirit from the nature of self-worship to the nature of God-worship through our covenant with YHWH in Jesus the Messiah, embodying His character qualities increasingly through the process of sanctification. That is the visible power of the Gospel. Certainly, miracles and supernatural experiences are used by the LORD in this venture, but it is at His discretion, His direction, and His empowerment, for His purposes. There is nothing about any of this that is initiated by us. If it is, it is not authentic; and in fact, as you have often pointed out through examples like Bethel's The Physics of Heaven, is a form of witchcraft when it is self-driven. That's what witches do: they attempt to wrestle supernatural forces under their control for the purpose of personal gain. I've made a video of my own regarding this, if anyone is interested: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o8V2erSBz5yzkWw.html Thanks again, and I appreciate your perspective and your work.

So excited to see this!! In my own search about hyper-charismania, I found Melissa, and also ran across Paul and Morgan and listened to their video of things they didn't feel comfortable with. Keep sharing the truth!

Definitely would love to one day share my story my experience in the Spanish Pentecostal church and the million questions it has left me having...I'm a Christ Follower. Listening to you and so many others has opened my eyes yet left me so much more with questions. I want to write a book, but I feel like first I need to truly KNOW what truth really is😔 thanks for sharing your story Paul n Morgan, and thanks Melissa for all your insight🙏🏽

Thank you for this very important message and video! I walked away from God because I saw many things the Holy Spirit showed me were wrong. I felt so alone, confused and afraid. This is a message so many need to hear to know they aren’t alone in seeing the dangers of this movement. I’m so thankful God didn’t give up on me after I gave up on Him. PRAYING for those that have walked away from God and been damaged by this dangerous movement and PRAYING for our Brothers and Sisters that are still in this False Movement 🙏🙏🙏

I had a small group host in college that started nearly everything she said to disagree with us with "the Lord told me" ... It drove me crazy because a lot of times it contradicted with something in Scripture, and it is a conversation killer. To disagree after that claim you have to either call them crazy or a liar. As believers, we should always be open to rigorous study of the Scripture to seek out God's truth, and when anyone says "well the Lord told me" it halts any productive study with that person.

Melissa, I love the respectful way you interview guests. Keep up the great work! It is appreciated by many of us.

Hello from Norway! Tanks for this. I too came out of this. I'v been so happy to find the blessed hope, that we never spoke about then.

So happy to view this video, love this couple. When people say, "God told me" I ask them if they are willing to write that down as canon in the Bible. That phrase is nothing more than saying, "Thus says the Lord." God has spoke to us in the past through the prophets and in these last days through His Son Jesus Christ. Stay in the Word, both eyes on Christ and walk away from the false teachers and wolves false prophesying and hyper-spiritual deception.

I had a lady from an online Bible study randomly personally message me and tell me something my brother would do at my wedding and something that would be in his pocket. Those things happened. But my gut told me her word was from the devil. Made my stomach churn.

Just love this i grew up in a charismatic church and fell away from the lord but after I became pregnant with my second baby I came back to God he brought me back home and my eyes were opened to all of this and I had no idea I was in deception I felt something was off for so long it was a big reason I fell away and im so thankful that God opened my eyes to all this ive learned so much in a years time and loving growing in wisdom and love in the lord 🙌🙌💗 let's keep talking about this! Thank you family God Bless You!

Loved this interview, thank you! It made me think how much I’m looking for a word or a sign from God while not really reading his Word.

I'm glad you guys did this video. I too have gone through a similar journey as Paul and Morgan. It's been a painful path and felt like a lot of things that were familiar were dying and feeling like I was doing so much wrong because I was so led by emotions in the past in the word of faith and prosperity gospels.

I am exactly in this place. It’s been a hard road and where I felt I fit in I have found myself a misfit Christian that doesn’t fit anywhere anymore.

Love the honesty & integrity & respectful balance of comments etc. ... Morgan I recall a meeting whereby I was so disappointed that no-one came to me to pray for me when I was "up front" that I ran out the church. Like you, I felt the Holy Spirit convict my heart & asked me if I was at church for Jesus or for the Pastor ... It was then I realised that my expectation was starting to be based on "being prayed for" when I went forward for prayer rather than expecting GOD's touch. That was then my turning point & even when I did go forward for prayer, I would do so, expecting a touch from God rather than from the person praying for me. There's nothing quite like going back to the word of God & even as Scripture says, to test prophecies! I feel there's a place for "going forward for prayer" but even when doing so, it's so important that we go, being expectant of God rather than man...Thank you, Melissa, Paul & Morgan for this honest & honouring conversation.

I loved the use of the Indianna Jones reference! Another good video- thank you!

I have had so many detailed prophetic words spoken over me that have come to pass with accuracy that I feel like my experience had been exceptional. I have been blessed to be around mature prophets. And studying the scripture was really emphasized in my upbringing, . By the way, I really enjoyed this conversation. LOVED the balance in the discussion. Great job,

I absolutely LOVED this conversation! Halleu Yah!

Wow, thank you so much for sharing!! This helps so much for others to realize this is a trap. We need to be washed in the word always.

This is coming from a youth pastor who is charismatic I totally understand what they’re saying. Im so sorry this happened to this them truly. I used to criticize this movement constantly. That was around 2 years ago . I was not changing , addicted , and didn’t have faith at all. But, now I learned so much and I then started to embrace the charismatic movement and my life radically changed. I got passionate about Gods word , evangelism and loving people. I started seeing the power of God move in my life more than ever. But , we did learn what to do with prophetic words and pretty much , I learned how to take the bad and leave the good. I’m so sorry , you guys weren’t taught this. I personally see pastor bill and Todd white and have learned so much but don’t consider myself hyper charasmatic but I personally say sorry for any church that really did hurt y’all. I know we’re not all the same but I do know that some are mystic and too extreme. God bless you extremely. I see these videos to grow and see everybody’s perspective and learn just in case there is something we are doing wrong ! We are humans and lovers of Jesus and we need to pursue Gods love and power but also be in unity as a body in Christ ! Humility and recognizing our mistakes unites us ! God bless y’all tremendously !

Thank you for talking about this topic! Same thing happened to me as I started to STUDY the word vs just read it. Jesus and His word is sufficient and in that I have found so much more peace than always striving for something more more more in the spiritual. I no longer feel defective, falling short or missing the mark to get to the "next level", anyway, great topic and video!

I am so glad Paul and Morgan are still following Jesus after such struggles. I can see why people prefer to get a "word from the Lord" rather than going just based on the Bible because rejection for the gospel's sake is hard.

so glad I watched this, Paula and Morgan just got me on board ....God bless Mel

Thank you, this is a very much needed topic to talk about. That's why we must know God for ourselves by prayer and reading and meditating on God's word. Remember we don't pay attention to how we feel, what we see or think but what does God's word say.