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He didnt need a second trip to the time chamber, he needed a therapist.

This really highlights an important difference between Goku and Vegeta: Vegeta was a warrior, Goku was a martial artist, and those are very different things

Also the fact that Gohan was not only able to unlock ssj but master it as well in less than a year shows how good of a teacher Goku is.

If we're ignoring the obvious, well plot had to happen, then I think it's not a case of talent or skill deficiency that prevented Vegeta from matching the same level of power of Goku and Gohan, but more a mindset issue. Goku and Gohan are both Earthlings and therefore they view skills and techniques as tools to improve and finetune. Vegeta is a Saiyan through and through who also grew up with his homeland's views and legends/folklore. He very well could of seen Super Saiyan as the pinnacle of Saiyan biology, a capstone of his people's history. So turning that power inward to work for him might of been a harder bottleneck to break through. It's very clear he relished the rush of emotions tied to the form and it's more symbolic representation to his people, which I think could of led to a subconscious effort to maintain it as is. Very simply he grew up being told Super Saiyan was the endgame, so it makes sense trying to imagine what would come after that would be harder for him. Goku would, and has never had, that kind of reservation. Because very early on in his martial arts journey he was taught by Master Roshi that there will always be a further horizon, and a more powerful fighter out there. Hell that was the entire plot of the first tournament arc in DB with Jackie Chun.

Working together is a vital point. In the Buu saga, for instance, Gotenks also got strong very quickly due to them training together.

5:38 As effective as the training on Yardrat was, I'd say Goku's training on the Lookout with Kami and Mr Popo was what made the biggest difference to Goku. He came back from that a changed man. Sure, he'd grown up physically, but he'd made a massive leap mentally; being a lot more mature. He was a lot calmer, and more contained and in control. He'd learnt to focus more and meditate. Pretty sure Kami was the one to teach the Earthlings how to fully control and manipulate their ki; surpress it, sense it, power it up, etc. In contrast, the first time Vegeta ever trained was in preparation for the Androids. He had to figure it all out as he went along. Taking on board some things, but ignoring other things because his pride got in the way (not wanting to do something because Goku did it that way). Yet another example in Z of Vegeta's massive ego weighing him down and holding him back. Look at what Vegeta achieved during the 3 years training for the androids. Now imagine how much further along he would've been had he been training during the 1.5 - 2 years after Namek / before Frieza arrived on Earth. Even more so if he had a mentor like Kami.

Trunks should have trained with Piccolo second time around. Piccolo would have given him great training techniques plus he could keep up with Trunks, much better than going in by himself.

Basically, it came down to Vegeta being a warrior, Goku being a martial artist and Dragon Ball (at its core) being about martial arts.

Just wanna say how much i like the intro. Instant nostalgia.

I think that the big difference is that Goku discovered form 2 through acclimating to the base form perfectly and during training, feeling that there was something more only after seeing Gohan near the edge of that discovery. After witnessing Gohan's unlocking of form 2, Vegeta probably felt out that power, knew what it should be like and just discovered that mastery of base isn't a requirement, and out of pride worked to force the state by the means of just powering up to that level required needed without coaxing it out with finesse on emotions. It's sort of the same deal but different context/mechanics with how God ki was unlocked for him as opposed to how goku did it and their ultra powers, with Goku reigning his thoughts in and refining them even more, While Vegeta forces his form through tenacity yet again.

I think both Vegeta & Trunks tried to follow the Mastering SS1 Grade 1 route (Inspired by Goku/Gohan) during their 2nd trip into the Room of Spirit and Time | Hyperbolic Time Chamber - but did not progress to the degree of Goku/Gohan. They seemed to completely abandon the Grade 2 form after the 2nd time entering the chamber. But I do believe that after their 2nd Time Chamber training, their standard SS1 forms surpassed their Grade 2 selves (Pre-2nd Time Chamber training).

Work hard Study well and eat and sleep plenty That is the turtle hermit way -Master Roshi

The real reason was that Vegeta and Goku took different approaches in their training Vegeta thought SS wasn’t enough, it needed to surpassed He ultimately thought upgrading it by channeling ki in his muscles would increase his power, making Ultra Grade Super Saiyan or Super Vegeta Trunks thought doing it more would surpass Cell Goku realized that Super Saiyan wasn’t complete, that it needed to be mastered by making it like their natural state, his training resulted in Mastered or Full Power Super Saiyan He didn’t need to upgrade Super Saiyan, only mastering it to a point there’s less Ki consumption, less ferocity, and resulting in more power Vegeta coukdnt beat Cell in part because he haven’t yet mastered Super Saiyan at the time, focusing more in raw power than a balanced mastered form

He didn’t get the tingly feeling down his back

I think Goku had the right idea for the training, but with the time allowed he was not strong enough to take full advantage of the "mastered" super saiyan... this is why they left early and he wasn't worried about winning. He knew Gohan had already acheived that level and Cell was no longer a threat in his eyes. Thus, I'd have to imagine that any saiyan with higher potential than Goku, and his insight and training could have achieved the mastered super saiyan in a similar time... I don't know if Trunks or Vegetas mastery would have made much of a difference (like Goku) given just how much of a T-1000 Cell is, or Gohan's unprecidented latent ability... but I am convinced that if Trunks or Vegeta trained the way Goku and Gohan had they could have acheived grade 4.... ascending to ssj2 however would probably have taken longer- definitely at least for Vegeta, but probably Trunks as well... I like how it played out though, it left plenty of room for doubt and suspense after all. "why isn't Goku going back in? korin doesnt think hes strong enough" etc etc. I think at this point Vegeta may have still had too much to learn to get there, but if he had swallowed his pride and tried to learn, i do think he has greater potential than Goku, its more his philosopy that was holding him back

Plot.. although he wouldn’t have beaten Cell, common sense says Vegeta should’ve been able to beat the Cell Jr’s going in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber TWICE.

Great video

Minor correction there was one person in trunks' timeline to teach him and it was yajirobe

Why has no one mentioned that the title is gramatically wrong? Shouldn't it be "Why Vegeta HASN'T Mastered Super Saiyan like Goku" Not Wasn't?

Short answer - Vegeta is way toi prideful to copy goku Long Answer - we needed the foundation for the boo arc to be set with vegeta being jealous of goku

Vegeta only wanting to train solo, is not plot only. Its who Vegeta is, Vegeta looks down on anyone weaker than him, its not until DB Super that he change. Goku on the other hand is willing to train with a weaker person because he understands it makes him stronger too, thats how Goku was raised he was always stronger when trained with someone else. While in the time chamber Goku quickly learn the grade 2 and 3 were a weakness, While Vegeta didn't because Goku while people claim he is dumb is very smart when it comes to fighting techniques. Honestly Vegeta was the worst person to go into the time chamber with, Trunks should of went with Goku, Piccolo, or even Tein, because they would of trained with him and been better teachers even if they were weaker. But I think the reason he went in with Vegeta was to spend time with his father, but instead, he got ignored. Just think about it, Chibi Trunks didn't even get strong because of Vegeta, he got strong because he fought alot with Goten. Vegeta didn't even know he was that strong, and in one short training secession with Goku, Trunks and Goten learn how to go SSJ3 as Gotenks and was able to achieve a huge increase in power as Gotenks with Piccolo in the time chamber.

The issue I have is that vegeta should have been stronger than the cell jrs. bro should have gotten a zenkai after cell whooped his ass and going into the hbtc after

Vegeta can eat eat his pride sometimes , for sure that he's trying to mastered ssj grade 4 , but since he's not like goku , vegeta for sure can't calm himself and maintain the form just like how goku could.

It’s crazy that it took Vegeta 3 FULL villain arcs for to chill out

Great depth explanation of the training between Goku Gohan Trunks and Vegeta

Vegeta: I believe that is a poor decision! Toriyama: Probably... but it's mine to make.

Love it!

2:37 Only Vegeta went in a second time, Trunks trained on the lookout itself.

He was too dense and angry back then and meditation was the last thing in his mind.

Love the thumbnail 😂

Goku: Working out mind and body, fighting with his son, practicing martial arts, improving the spiritual strength, having a sparring partner with his son. Effective training and rests. Vegeta: MOOSCLE, MOOSCLE, MOOOOOSCLEEEEEEEEE

The difference between Goku and Vegeta in DBZ is simple. Goku possessed the right thinking. Vegeta did not. The right mindset unlocked knowledge, strength and inner peace.

Bro your title hurts my brain

The "human" plot. Whatever fantasy we have written that involves humans, some level.of human nature makes us infallible. Justice league for example, batman is basically S tier. Goku, a low level saiyan who basically had human nature instilled in him is the driving force behind him being the most powerful saiyan. He would have never been this strong if he grew up as a typical saiyan.

I think Vegeta and Trunks were like an incomplete grade 4 in the cell games due to how their auras are drawn against the cell juniors and how trunks looks when he kills the androids in his time and especially when he kills Cell (he would’ve had 3 more years to master grade 4)

This is actually a good point, the fact that anger and pride become a problem in training is a great plot point for why Vegeta is behind Goku; the thing is that after Vegeta's character development in the Buu's saga and now Super, Vegeta will probably (if not by plot) be stronger than Goku since, by nature, Vegeta is a superior class warrior and would be really cool to see, at least in one saga, where Vegeta is the dude that destroys the main villain

The reason goku and gohan came out in better forms was because they trained together vegeta and trunks didn't they trained separately and they got real strong but goku and gohan actually got things done together. If vegeta and trunks had trained together they would have been stronger than goku and gohan

Goku and Gohan got the power of plot, simple

Yeah Vegeta won't do things Goku's way even if he admits they work. This is why he gave up on Ultra Instinct and tried finding his own way which lead him to evolution and Ultra Ego, he also refuses to change is fighting style which is usually to just overpower and dominate

I frequently wonder, if we ignore plot armor and the whole concept of why goku and gohan not going in a second time....But what if they did? Separate or together with other partners. Its something i frequently think about beyond the plot line

Vegeta gatekept and sabotaged himself and trunks

Future Gohan and Future trunks both had Roshi which is why I never understood why they never trained with him cuz if they did they would have defeated the Androids

I'm of the opinion that Vegeta and Trunks should have gone back into the Time Chamber for 4 months a piece with Teachers. Namely, Piccolo and Goku. Have Goku take Trunks in for 4 Months. Give him a proper foundation for good training. Then do the same with Piccolo and Vegeta. Then have Vegeta and Trunks use their remaining 8 Months together, expanding on what Goku and Piccolo taught them with one another.

Vegeta knew Gotham was the strongest at the start of the cell games. When Goku was fighting cell and everyone was talking about how strong Goku was and how he’d beat Cell, Vegeta just stared at Gohan. He knew better than anyone other than Goku.

What if all 4 of them went in together?🤔

Imagine if Goku and Vegeta did the same thing, in terms of training wise, with Super Saiyan blue? A cool what if idea for this particular Dragon Ball Z would be if Goku had trained with Future Trunks while Piccolo had trained gohan after words. Imagine a full powered Super Saiyan Goku training trunks to his almost limits, then you have Piccolo breaking through his own limitations while training with a fully empowered Super Saiyan Gohan, while at the same time helping Gohan learn how to control Super Saiyan 2 when he first awoken it.

Training philosophy

Trunks and Gohan shouldve gone into the time chamber together after Gohan finished with Goku. If Trunks explained his past to Gohan properly im sure Gohan would understand why he has to fight and would train accordingly plus with Gohan being the pinnacle of strength at the time, he would be the perfect person for Trunks to train with to get faster gains

Besides plot, they simply didn't train the same way 👍

Goku got so strong cause gohan was pushing him, also goku while meditating, knew that mastery of super saiyan would help gohan transform to ssj2.

Are you taking suggestions for a what if episode?

if only trunks had a better training partner. he likely would have gotten to ssj 2 before the cell games. since he already had ssj

That thumbnail yo lol

In conclusion grind harder be smarter and I’m a vegeta fan saying this. Well said saiyajin scholar 🫡

Its pretty simple actually, goku went in and spared with gohan getting the most out of training, vegeta essentially went in solo and what im guessing is punched air and excercised by himself, just like irl youre not going to become a better fight without sparing. Punching air and practicing techniques is cool and all until you get punched in the face.

Trunks should had copy goku method and stay in ssj for his second trip to the spirit chamber he would have grown much stronger

Imagine if Vegeta trained with goku like he did in super, I feel like he would have been much stronger if he humbled himself in dbz

I almost wrote you off , because you didn't mention his experience then your last point in this was just that. Goku's martial arts experience truly separates him from the rest. I love how you broke that all down, truly a saiyan scholar. Great video.@saiyanscholar

Disagree about vegeta being self taught. He was a saiyan elite, he received elite training as a young child. He is also a skilled tactical fighter. The reason he couldn't master super saiyan is due to his philosophy of pushing himself with intensity instead of mastering the basics.

The big reason here is because yes he entered with trunks but didn’t train way trunks. Goku used the gohan abilities of getting stronger faster and the other sayan being able to get there. He didn’t get strong enough also cuz as goku said getting the body more tiredness wasn’t going to help

Future Trunks: Barely trained throughout his life. Became a SSJ out of grief when Future Gohan is killed. Cuts Frieza to pieces within minutes (possibly seconds seeing this is DBZ and 5 minutes on Namek lasted about 12 episodes) of meeting him and incinerates the pieces 🤣

Imagine if Vegeta and Goku went in at the same time. Both get stronger and Vegeta gets a whole year of fighting with Goku.

If Vegeta had mastered Super Saiyan, he would've given Cell a decent fight at the very least. Cell would still win though.

The simplicity is that the zenkai boost sayians get is important it raises base power. Also another thing was the simple phrase you all forgot to master super sayin - "We stayed in super sayin and then got used to it and no longer had a KI DRAIN" - GOHAN The KI DRAIN is the real reason Trunks and Vegeta couldn't get to grade 4. Grade 4 is mastered super sayin and simply put. "YOU CAN NOT HAVE THE FULL POWER IF YOU HAVE A MASSIVE ENERGY DRAIN." Notice all the old fight how they only went super sayin if it was NEEDED. Grade 4 requires you to acclimate to the form and get used to it and the you can release the full power of the form. SS3 has this same drawback but Goku never just entered the form and focused on controlling his ki drain like in SS1. SS2 is SS1 Grade 5 = SS2 full power of Grade 3 and the speed bonus of Grade 4

That would’ve been Gokus 3rd time in which wouldn’t have worked also Goku has had many of teachings on how to control his body and energy from so many teachers, vegeta hasn’t making vegeta feats very impressive

Goku always follows the turtle hermit way

I feel it is to do with the pure heart that Goku has or something to do with Vegeta's issues, that Chamber is afterall where you deal with personal problems & conflicts or it is not being in there long enough, Vegeta didnt achieve the level of power and development in his Super Saiyan form which Trunks in Abridged says he found a way to surpass his father that he doesnt know but his extent is Grade 4, not going to Mastered/Full Power is why Future Trunks and Vegeta dont achieve Super Saiyan 2 until much later than Goku, that goes back to Goku mastering the form and Gohan as well.

Atleast when they were awake? Goku was asleep on the grass when krillin threw him with a rock

Mabye bcz vegeta was smart enough and found out that the super saiyan form was to weak for him and found out that he could surpass a super saiyan

As much as he uses it as motivation, Vegeta's pride is his fatal flaw. If Goku figured something out, Vegeta would always want to figure out his own way to do it. I also think Vegeta likes the rage of Super Saiyan. I think it made him feel like a true saiyan warrior.

It was made more or less clear that Goku'a training strategy/technique hadn't occurred to Vegeta until after the fact & his ego definitely would have prevented him from attempting to imitate Goku's training during the second training session.

I think the biggest difference goes all the way back to Roshi. Work hard, study well and eat and sleep plenty. The idea of taking it slow and letting the body recover as an important step to get stronger we see was completely foreign to him. In every one of vegeta's training sessions we see the same method he breaks his body throws some bandages on and keeps pushing until he either gets to a new level or more bandages aren't enough. For this reason the concept of slowing down to get used to the form and resting was beyond his ability to understand. Even upon seeing goku and gohan he wouldn't have figured out they achieved it by slowing down and working their way up to it. Because that doesn't exist for him as a method to gain strength. And trunks couldn't figure it out for the same reason. He had only ever seen the method his dad used or gohan had used, which was all about survival because future gohan had only gotten basic training from piccolo because his dad died. No turtle hermit way.

Meanwhile universe 6 sayans achiving ssj 2 in mins

Vegeta and trunks didn’t fight each other while training .goku and gohan was fighting each other pushing each other to their limits

Dbs Vegeta and (grown man future dbs) trunks should train together that would be epic ssbe or u.e Vegeta vs ss2 rage trunks

I believe goku knowing he had super saiyan for a yr outside his ki control was much better than vegetas having been away for a yr. I’m sure goku was ki training while his heart virus was going he knew vegeta needed to go up a level n told him about the time chamber. Plus goku made Gohan a real warrior in there he surpassed goku but that’s also good training for goku trunks n vegeta never fought they could only get so strong.

He didn’t wanna copy Goku flow word for word bar for bar

I had always heard Vegeta DID master super saiyan by the cell games in the manga. No clue if it's true.

Vegeta been trained by one person king Vegeta then was kidnapped goku who hasn't trained goku

I think the training partners should have been swapped if it wasn't for Bejita's ego. I mean Future Trunks with present Gohan and Kakarrot with Bejita. Kakarrot wouldn't take shit from the arrogant prince. He would have kicked his ass any day. If father and son were to train seriously, there is a good chance they would have achieved grade 4 in few months.

They just went two different ways about it. Simple as that. Vegeta only worried about increasing his power and goku focused on stamina in the super sayian form. Goku's way just happened to be better.

this shit crazy trunks and vegeta couldve gotten ssj2 way faster or at least trunks since he's a hybrid

Because Vegeta is not a fighting genius, he’s only a brute. That’s why he can never get the job done and is always playing second fiddle to Goku.

I dont remember trunks being prideful. After he killed freiza met up with goku. He admired him alot. Fast fwd to cell games. Watching goku gohan walk out. Why didnt he just ask goku to train him for a day. There was plenty of timr especially when goku said no to him and gohan going back. I know he wanted to chill out but will one day be that much of a difference? Couldnt he chill whilest training trunks.?

The cell saga and many moments before demonstrated that Goku was a genius of combat overall. He took the time to meditate instead of physically train himself whereas vegeta never took any time to work on his mind and relied solely on raw strength and pride over anything else. This is also why Dragon ball Super annoyed me so badly as well. During one of the training scenes with Whis, they basically retconned all of gokus intelligence in DBZ and made him a complete jug head in all regards and even had the audacity to make Vegeta the one who was meditating instead of goku and making it seem like he hadn't been doin that in the past. Gonna be honest, Super was... not a great addition to dragonball as a whole. It should have ended with Z.

Why isn’t trunks as strong as gohan? He’s half saiyan and I’ll argue he’s been through more hard times than gohan that his rage should have unlocked a new power

Interesting points, but yeah it's just plot. We all know that Vegeta and Trunks weren't going to be allowed to keep up with Goku and Gohan no matter how things played out. Especially at that time.

One of the biggest issues was the fact that Vegeta was too busy posturing and never actually worked with Trunks. The second time around, they didn't even go together, which is essentially just wasting one's time powering up alone for a year in empty space with no real combat training -- a handicap both times around but made worse the second time. Utter waste of potential but that's the story angle.

It’s simple. “Plot” armor

Cool video but here’s the actual answer. It’s how it was written. Theory’s about a show that’s written are all incorrect. It’s literally a man made show. One single person controls the outcomes and ways of love for each character….

Ok, ok what if they were actually a team and went all 4 of them the second time. Probably they would have learned a bit from each other and they would have been more balanced in ki, speed, strength. Surely they would have been much stronger, much faster, with more accurate ki blasts.

This honestly didn’t need to video, anyone with a brain knows the answer to this😂

Pretty different from how Super handles things. Here it looka like Vegeta's pride and evil personality prevented him from reaching his full potential, leading to him want to do things his own way only to fail as his way was compared to Goku was wrong. The strength in the story is tied to philosophy of the characters and shows that Goku someome who learns and works with others is stronger then vegeta who is selfish and prideful refusing to work with anybody. In Super its opposite, Vegeta goes blue evolved or ultra ego because of the same reason, being prideful and arrogent which does not contrast well with Goku. But super Goku is stupid and sadly is the person toriyama intended for him to be. This series is so weird now how Goku in super is who he was meant to be yet Z and dragonball make him out to be the exact opposite with only hints of that persona being here in there but overshadowed by his other qualities. Now Vegeta feels more like Goku and Goku feels more like Vegeta.

Goku was ss 3 yrs longer than vegeta and if you watch how vegeta train its always base mode post cell saga he was training as a ss and got a custom to it

I bet if they hired you to write Dragon Ball Super wouldn't be so pussified

It’s all just plot. Goku has to be better no matter what

Goku also trained a lot with Gohan

Vegeta didn’t master full power super saiyan because toriyama didn’t write for him too. That simple

Because he trained alone with hurt him.