They're not a joke band. They just didn't abandon their sense of humor.

theyre not a "joke band" at all

I'm a big fan of Ween and Zappa and I honestly never made a correlation between the two. Besides making diverse music and occasionally having humor that's as far as the similarities go in my opinion.

Ween is the single greatest display of human musical expression. Hail Boognish.

Saw them live and they played for over three hours when the tickets only cost 15 bucks!

Dean and Gene strike me more as Captain Beefheart guys anyway…

I'm a huge Zappa fan, But I can appreciate he's not everyone's cup of tea. And that's a good thing because it seems his music is just for me. And I love it.

Ween also have drugs and alcohol contributing to the process whereas we all know Zappa's stance on drugs. Probably also another reason why they don't like him. Plus Ween being two friends making music contributes massively to how fun their music is compared to Frank. And they never tried to be super virtuoso they just learned new things as they wrote songs and wrote new songs as a result. This is already super long but something else to consider is Zappa's age when he started with The Mothers vs Ween's age when they started.

help i'm a rock help i'm a rock help i'm a rock help i'm a rock help i'm a rock help i'm a rock help i'm a rock

Watching this made me realize that ween has a tenancy to take and fully embrace a first person perspective of who or whatever they are taking the piss out of. Big fat fuck is a perfect example of this as is blarney stone. The person who introduced me to ween was overweight and played me big fat fuck. She thought it was funny and didn't feel singled out as the tone was more taking on the mantle of big fat fuckery in general. Zappa tends toward third person. Even in Joe's garage, which is a good counterexample he continually seems to insert himself to remind you that he is not Joe and Joe is stupid. Zappa was a highly skilled genius, don't get me wrong but weens ability to empathize with all the goofy corners of the world makes them more relatable.

If I remember correctly, Frank commented how he only wrote music with lyrics to appease the masses and “the powers that be”, and if he did not do this he could not afford to spend the amount of energy he did on his “serious” music. He recognized that instrumental music was not enjoyed by the general public. Maybe all his lyrical writings reflected his feelings regarding this fact? The man just wanted to make MUSIC.

Never heard anything by ween before, but those snippets sounded good. When people ask me where to start with Zappa I tell them not to bother.

Zappa was a Dadaist living in a land of absurdities. What comes across as sarcastic or mocking (not that it's not) should be viewed within that context.

I’m a fan of Zappa for his music and his fights against the right wing. He cut his hair and put on a suit and tie and went to Washington to fight with the people who were trying to take away freedoms. Look where we are today, I wish he was here now.

I have the same critique to Zappa. I really appreciate him, but I feel like he is playing the “smart guy” character way too hard all the time. But Ween, they are just having a good time, and nothing is more fun than that.

A good comparison and similarity could be Ween's _Twelve Golden Country Greats_ with Zappa's _Cruising with Ruben & the Jets_ Both seem to reveal a genuine love and respect for the genres they were playing with and in: country for Ween and 50's doo wop for Zappa. Both revolve around the theme of romantic lost love (and its over-the-top dramatics in pop culture). __ Zappa's _Trouble Every Day_ is a great protest song touching on more significant social issues. It's very direct and there's no irony. Ween still doesn't have such a song. I love Ween, but Ween is a planet, while Zappa is a whole universe, a history.

I wouldn't take too seriously anything that Dean or Gene said. Quite often they said things that contradicted what they had said in previous interviews

just saw this in the ween subreddit, great video mate

Well done! You put your finger on so many points. I just got back into ween after like 15 years, and I thought they’d have been fans of Zappa as well even though I never connected with Zappa. I saw the clip where dean says he wasn’t a fan, and now it makes perfect sense. There is more of an accessible emotional quality to ween whereas Zappa always rubbed me the wrong way, and I think you nailed it.

Ween called joke band again? Its f n 2023 not 1985 anymore yo

Since I first heard Ween I thought "wow this reminds me of the spirit of Zappa". Surprised they wouldn't appreciate Zappa.

Ween is The Greatest Band Ever! I'm a Huge Fan of Them I've been listening to Ween since I was in Highschool and my friend introduced me to them.

Frank Zappa is trying far too hard to be what ween just is.

Another great video. I like how you try to analyse music and one's reaction to music. A lot of the music talking guys (yeah, still mostly guys) on YT don't get much further than "awesome" and such. Funny that only yesterday after some consideration I had to decide to move Zappa's Joe's Garage double CD from the living room CD cupboards to the B- grade collection in the attic to make room for a newly acquired Van der Graaf Generator live album. I simply decided Joe's Garage was probably the one I was least likely to listen to ever again. I'm sure I never listened to it all the way through in one go.

Zappa just did what he liked. Thats called being an artist. If you feel that way, you just don't listen, which is exactly what he said people should do if they don't like it. Writing incredibly outside the box music can make the artist feel vulnerable.

I saw Devin Townsend saying pretty much the same about Zappa's music a few days ago. As much as I love Zappa's music I agree he is a little accusatory.

Never been into zappa, but I love some of weens songs

Different strokes for different folks! I love both and enjoy them in their own ways. Yay.

Tim Heidecker doesnt like Zappa, but has mentioned Ween as an early inspiration.

i love both ween and zappa but i wholeheartedly cannot stand zappa's personality. he acts like he doesn't even like other musicians, and i know he does but he spends most of his interviews grilling other musicians he's not fond of and i really like that ween are open about their love for other music and their influences

The irony : sincerity ratio is completely different. Ween are far far more earnest and sincere. They LOVE the musical styles they pay homage to. Zappa used genre to point out the dumbness of conformity, pop music and its commercialization. Theirs an underlying hostility that’s not present in Ween. Still love him for what he does but beneath the surface of their similarities they couldn’t be less alike.

You perfectly put into words why I've only ever been able to admire Zappa from a distance but love Ween (and Tim Heidecker, and Beefheart for the matter)

What you don't seem to understand is that when Frank and the Mothers came out they had tons of fans including the Beatles, who claimed that he had a lot to do with Sgt. Pepper's sound, and he could have rode that wave into everyone loving him. Everyone knew it at the time. Instead he released an album called "We're Only In It For The Money" parodying Sgt. Pepper, and then released an album of noisy symphony music, followed by an album of tongue-in-cheek (yet very well composed) doowop, followed by a couple more really noisy albums, then a really easy to listen to jazz album (Hot Rats), then a super noisy jazz album (Weasels Ripped My Flesh), etc... He wasn't overcompensating because he felt he couldn't compete with the Beatles. He hated the Beatles and hated people who listened to the Beatles, though he seemed to think John Lennon was funny. The dude could have had the chart-topping album a few different times in his career, unlike Ween, but he just shit on the opportunities because that wasn't what he was about. Same goes for Captain Beefheart or Frank Black or a modern group like Knower, who could easily have some hits if they wanted, but demand to do it on their own terms so abrasively that they will never get anywhere and they don't care. Zappa is different than Ween because he had all of hippie culture wrapped around his finger with his first album, but blew his nose on the idea because he didn't want to serve that kind of audience. He made the music that he felt like making and never let anyone else influence him. There is a tremendous amount of respect due for that kind of attitude, but he won't get it because he pisses on hipness in a way that Ween never did. They embraced hipness. Frank threw hipness in the trash and demanded a different audience. Call it arrogance, but I call it dignity.

Frank Zappa was engaged in basic research in music. There was no telling whether any ideas he pursued were going to lead anywhere good; it was only certain to lead somewhere *new* .

turned it off when u compared them to tenacious D

Zappa was an innovative guitar player but an execrable fraud in every other aspect of his life.

I’m a huge ween fan. The only part of Zappa’s music I enjoy are the ripping guitar solos. Great video!

I consider Zappa an artist first, and a songwriter second. I consider Ween the inverse. Personally, I prefer a songwriter who makes good art than an artist who writes good songs.

show some respect. call them 'Gener' and 'Deaner'.

ohhhh boy, we got 20 minutes of HOT GOSS. and idk Hot Rats and Joe's Garage are masterpieces with very dark humor, but not total sarcasm/ironic, 'watermelon in easter hay' is instrumental

YES they are the nineties pastiche successors of the Beatles! What band ever attempted more styles? I can't think one

This was interesting! I listen to all kind of music which stick out. So, I have followed Zappa (and many of the musicians associated) since the beginning of the 70s. I had never heard of Ween so this video looked interesting. One more thing, English is not my first language, so I care less for the lyrics, and regards voices more like instruments! I just listened to a couple of Ween songs, I will give them a 2nd change, but so far they sounded just like the music they imitated. To me they didn't add anything. Still your discussion is interesting. The lack of real emotions in Zappa's music is, according to me, the main reason for his ability to constantly during is life time be able to create more and more new music. Without going into psychological terms and leaving other comparisions aside: the image you get by Mozart in the movie "Amadeus" (1984) came to my mind: a clear genius who can't read other people, can't behave, and don't care. m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b9CchMx5rbPQm3U.html

You make some really good points about FZ. I still like him, too, and I'm glad there are other things to listen to.

A man after my own heart! I find Zappa’s music musically stunning but incredibly off-putting because his personality is SUCH a suffocating presence. And no need to hedge on speculating about the reasons behind his lack of vulnerability. Your suggestion is perfectly sensible and valid.

I was kind of surprised when I found this out but oh well still love both, Deaner is a huge Prince fan tho and I’m down with that

Franks one of those rare folks who actually was smarter than most everyone else, and stupidity was one of his muses. Was he a bit cold? possibly, but his music is some of the most colorful playful and or intense stuff ever created. There are plenty of great artists to fill up the ranks of vulnerable sensitive music n lyrics, but there's only one Frank and he simply made what he wanted :)

Very well said EXCEPT for the part where you stated Ween was a joke band, that part, very poorly said.

I am a fan of both and they share much DNA. FZ was a satirist as a writer, but he was a polyglot as a composer. Ween were at their best shape shifters who could embody and improve almost any hackneyed genre with humor and musical vigor. Ween I do agree display a far greater emotional range in their work and are more relatable as you suggest FZ has literally advanced the language of modern art in perpetuity. Ween will be remembered as a quirky adventurous burlesque of Rock and it's myriad affectations. Zappa will be remembered as on of the most profound composers of the 20th Century.

I like Zappa but Dean and Gene are right; Zappa often wasn't as clever as he thought he was. He thought he was being incisive and satirical and was to some degree--albeit, smugly so, but it came out as corny boomer humor and made many of his songs feel like an unfunny joke. I will have to listen to his discography front to back, though, because he does have stuff worth listening to.

I right there with you brother. I’ve never cared for Zappa’s music either. And as a musician and music snob I know this is a hot take to have.

I think you are right. I love Zappa but Ween has become my favorite band lately. Its that same kind of humor that I love in both, but Ween just seems much more genuine. They are more than just a joke band, they lay their souls out on display for every track.

Tenacious D is much more of a parody band than Ween, and I fucking love the D! KG rocks 3:06 'The biggest threat to America today is not communism--It's moving America towards a fascist Theocracy.'

2:34 Vinnie Colaiuta actually gets name checked in Catholic Girls. See that song for a pronunciation example.

Cool analysis. I am a fan of FZ and Ween. But yeah, Ween doesn't have the arrogance of FZ. Also I would have to mention FZ's misogyny. But I still enjoy much of it. I'm going to try a cover of Uncle Remus, with much simpler guitar solos

never got into zappa myself, but its worth listening to, if you into funky avante garde shit, he gave us steve vai so that's worth something in my ears... ween takes this hands down, imo

Listen to Valerie by Frank Zappa if you want a heartfelt song which is sung by the man himself, most of his more personal songs are early in his career but there is many scattered throughout

"Mom & Dad" by Zappa/The Mothers of Invention is pretty dark, serious, and surprisingly sensitive. It took me years to grasp as it gets lost in the overall biting tone of We're Only It For The Money.

Didn't Gener play at a Zappa festival? This dude pretty much correct, just takes forever to get the point. Brilliant

Don't Get 2 Close, and Montana. Great picks right at the start man I love those songs. Vinnie's name is pronounced kinda like colla-utah. The fact is that in his lyricism he was obscuring himself with ironic nonsensical shit, and making fun. Whether he was afraid of being sensitive, no way to know. Maybe he thought that writing about stupid people and how stupid the audience is and how stupid America is would be more interesting to his fans, and even then he's still writing about himself, the experiences he's had. He never delved into his deep feelings because I don't think that he despaired much inside. All his hatreds were placed on other people.

Has anyone read “The Hot Rats Book”. He really is a good guy….if only to a select few. I was 49 before I “got” Zappa.

The closest genre descriptor that can describe Zappa is “Zolo” but even then, you can’t pin down his entire career into a single genre descriptor so the best descriptor really is just “Zappa Music”. Same with Primus.

12:07 "Whether or not it is true that he was afraid of expressing any sort of vulnerability in his music, I can certainly say that it bugs me that there's so little of it in his music. As I said earlier, there's more of that in his instrumental stuff, which is still wacky and out there, but at least it comes across to me as more earnest; there's less of like kind of just 'in your face' stuff and 'contrarianism', but when every single song, (and this guy put out a lot of music), every single song is some sort of like childish, mocking, silly thing, and is hardly even a single moment of, idk, a love song, a song about something normal, or heartfelt, or even much of a feeling of self-reflection or self-deprecation. What is he so scared of? Is it so hard to just write a positive song or be vulnerable?" I'm interested if these Zappa songs and pieces make you feel the same way, or if you've found something else in these/how do they compare to Ween?: 1. Planet Of My Dreams kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hMdhl8ulqZi-pGw.html 2. Anything kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ist2a7Ry3ZvXaZc.html 3. Stuff up the cracks kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jLmeZdSTmt3Xlpc.html 4. Project X minus .5 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bNiXjMqJt97Zh2g.html 5. Twenty Small Cigars kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ndt2dLGh3LuxXXk.html 6. Tears Began To Fall kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zptzl5WgnL7emHk.html 7. Blessed Relief kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aOCIo5eLy7iro3U.html 8. Sleep Dirt kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pNWahtWg2bW-ioE.html 9. Here Lies Love (Original by the 4 deuces) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e5d2hqaqtNPal3U.html 10. Nap Time (performed and mized during the last 3 years of his life) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ZrF4fr11sraVqGw.html 11. For The Young Sophisticate kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gcV0qLJ6p5aaf6M.html 12. I'm So Happy I Could Cry kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qtRli7p10NjSh3k.html 13. Waffenspiel kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oJp2dNVp3d-sdqs.html I think that's enough

i have heard the comparison before but its a superficial one. love them both

Is Uncle Remus sarcastic? It seems pretty genuine to me, but sometimes Zappa's snark can be subtle.

This was a great video! Zappa was a cynic while Ween are absursists

this is why the true scholars love them both. 😂 people need to be made fun of including your own self!

IDC. Zappa didn't like the Dead and now you know my 3 favorite bands who all mutually didn't like each other. ween, zappa, and the goldurned grateful Dead.

Makes sense. Ween is my favorite band and I’ve never been able to get through a whole Zappa song. I don’t even like looking at him.

i love the insight that they're super geniune

15:49 the only thing I strongly disagree with. Listen to those guitar solos, chord choices, vocal range, overall cleverness. Zappa surrounded himself with extremely virtuosic music, but not “better” musicians, nor did he make better music.

Frank was an ahole. Ween and Frank are both great. This guy gave an awesome description of Frank though The Bougnish rises soon

I love Zappa, but Ween > any other band or artist

wow, I love Zappa, almost like my comfort composer, I listen to his music at least once a week, and I never ever considered that emotion part from his lyrics. I feel like yeah, there's something there, I think more than a very intelligent person which he was, was more like the freak treatment people gave him. but yeah, that defense mechanism from him of being sort of obnoxious makes it problematic. Ok, thanks for the video.

Shorter version: look at the lyrics of Frank Zappa's "Jewish Princess". He would rather find someone to hate than find something to love. Now check out Ween's "So Long, Jerry". Pretty stark difference. (Honestly, it was a missed opportunity that this video didn't get into Ween's sad songs. Birthday Boy, It's Gonna Be (Alright), etc. Did Zappa ever do anything like that?) Ween can be goofy, but they're also human beings who feel things: love, loss, etc.. Zappa would never be willing to admit that he loved anything. Maybe he didn't.

Hot Rats is where I was recommended to start with Zappa, and yes I think that's the best place to start.

10:48 Yes. I thought it was transparent at times too. 🤙

this guy needs to listen to more ween Live is the conclusion I have come to

Zappa's music is like the elephant that is encountered by a group of blind men...

You like his music or you hate his music. Nothing in between.

Frank Zappa probably mimicked their schtick similar to the AI nonsense going on. He was also giving off cointelpro vibes. Zappa was suspicious as fvck along with the sex offenders in the band and his dad from deep inside the military.

Why can’t everything I like get along

Fair enough, I don't like Zappa's music either (not that that is particularly interesting to anyone except people I know). Although personally he is interesting to me. It's good that not everything in art is liked and it's good that not everything in art is disliked. Imagine how dull things would be if we all liked the same stuff. 🙂

I think Zappa certainly had moments of brilliance and he trained some of the best musicians of the late 20th century but I would much rather listen to any album by Ween. I think they are much more interesting and they are wildly entertaining live.

They are not a joke band and they have some of the best musicianship out there

I love Ween and I like Zappa...Weenfans may try " ZAPPA/BEEFHEART/MOTHERS - Bongo Fury" Boognish agrees with me that this is Zappa´s brownest release.... Happy colored Greetinx

Love of My Life, I'm the Slime, Uncle Remus, Mom and Dad, Trouble Every Day, Hungry Freaks Daddy, Cocaine Decisions, Heavenly Bank Account, and The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing are all great songs and examples of Zappa writing more serious songs with lyrics and something to say rather than childishness and dick jokes. "Ever tell your kids, you're glad that they can think? Ever say you love them? Ever let them watch you drink?" Is one of the rawest lines I've heard in a song.

I have been a long serving Ween fan since Pure Guava. They are much more than a joke band, and have made some brilliant music. My kids love Ween so they must be good. I do like some Zappa as well, but not as much as Ween...

Joe's Garage and/or Apostrophe

Chad Wackerman also played drums for Frank. Chad is one of the best drummers, almost as good as Stewart Copeland. Ween is much more fun than Zappa, imho.

The Mollusk is a great album, but it’s thematic… it’s like a pirate’s life “yo ho, yo ho” type album so it’s not one I would recommend for first time listeners. I would go with The Pod… their weirdness is more evenly spread out.

Frank Zappa always struck me as affected. I felt as if I could see him working too hard to pull the strings.

Giant fan of both. Ween is one of the greatest live shows you can go to, with one of my favorite drummers ever. Shout out Claude! I don’t think Frank was sarcastic at all, I think it was extremely satirical. I actually don’t think he was a lighthearted guy, he was extremely serious and used his music to draw attention to what he saw as folly and contradiction in society. He was probably the most intentional musician we will see in our lifetime. If you weren’t as serious about the music as he was, he didn’t want you around, which is why his hiring process was so rigorous, but once you were in, people spoke so positively about him. He saw himself much more as a conductor than a musician. The happiest I’ve ever seen Zappa is footage of him being welcomed by the U.S. Navy Band at an airport, by them playing Joe’s Garage, which he immediately started beaming and conducting. I get how he may not be someone’s cup of tea, but I don’t think he was flippant about his music. I get the sense he felt it was his duty to address these issues. Look at the interviews and panels he did on political and talk shows. He’s extremely concerned and serious.

I don't believe them, they were probably just messing with the interviewer when they said they didn't like Zappa.

What I think people do not realize is that Frank did the majority of his rock+vocal music to pay the bills and to allow him to write the orchestral music that he wanted to write. That is why you feel sincerity in his orchestral music and satire/sarcasm in the lyrics.

This is so well put! Ween can get really bare in their emotions from time to time, and Zappa never really does. Ween really does seem to love the music that they parody and I hadn't really noticed how overall negative Zappa is and most of his 'serious' stuff doesn't speak to me. If I'm looking for something silly I love them both and mostly I love when you can tell that a band is having fun making their music.Ween is so much more expressive and I'm sure the continued comparison can get really exasperating. Great Vid! Thanks!

Their favorite group is probably Angel.

I like some Zappa music and love the concept of him being a prolific and great musical experimentor the most . I think Frank Would Be Delighted with WEEN for being honest and not giving a f. Personally I love WEEN, so many great tunes they should be regaurded like the Beatles or Led Zep

I loved Ween back in the 90s. I also loved Frank Zappa growing up. They're two very different acts. I enjoy both significantly less now because I got older, tastes change, etc. They both made inappropriate jokes in their music, thats about all the similarity I can see.

I like both bands and a massive fan of Frank. Not really sure why anyone would care. I like both. So there we go I guess

Who could possibly like, Captain Beefheart's, music? It's an awful noise. Not anyone's cup of tea, but I like it. And I can see why most people don't.