Not worth it. Those schools generally produce physicians interested in research. All medical school produce great doctors. The way you became a great doc is through experience, not medical school.

I’m not doing med school but this does make me feel better about paying about 7k a semester for Nursing.

It's really refreshing how honest you are when speaking over this. I appreciate the honesty! I'm hoping to apply to the 2023 cycle :)

I hear you, man. That's why I ended up going to a state school (save money) that accepted me into a 3 year MD program (save time) that pre-matched me into EM residency (save stress).

Augusta University lists fees per semester, so to get the yearly rate you should multiply it by 2. :)

This is a great video. It all depends on your goals. If you want to stay in academia or do research for big pharma, the Ivy League name will carry you. Hell, the Ivy League name will carry you to get a good residency spot too. Step 1 is p/f now and many of these Ivy League schools don't have rankings or grades and are also p/f. You can go to Columbia and just pass your classes with no rankings and chill and have a better chance at matching Derm than the guy who went to his state school and had to stress over grades and was top 15 in the class. It all depends on what you want to do.

man, i am trying to do like pre reqs at a community college, transfer to a university and then go from there. I'm 27 now and have a 2 year old and I am getting NERVOUS. I haven't even registered for my classes yet. Also your vids with your wife are so great! You guys are very helpful and elaborate in your explanation of, pretty much everything. She basically convinced me to be a PA, it's going to be a long road, but I'm sure it'll work out!!

My husband is a medical student at our local state school and has friends at other state schools. The curriculum at our state school is severely lacking and different from our friends' curriculum. The whole structure of how subjects are taught is different. His classes covered about 40% of the information on Step 1, and the rest he had to learn on his own, without resources from the school, which is not the same story for our friends in neighboring states. The clinical side of things in M3&4 are better, but most students from our state struggle at first in rotations because they just dont have as strong a base of knowledge as the MDs expect. I know its not really the point of this video, as it is mainly comparing state schools to ivy leagues, but just want to throw it out there that different schools CAN have very different curriculum. Research your school!

I love your channel so much because you’re so real and relatable! Once again, thanks for another great video

Yep, my school advisor often says that it doesn’t really matter where you go for medical school, all that matters is that you go

I hope you're having a blessed day, Dr. Cellini. Keep up the great work on your videos!

Can you do a video on DO schools, I had no clue you were a DO. Brightened my day.

A old supervisor of mine is an MD and did his PhD at Harvard. They 100% said going to Havard is no different than other schools.

Im an accountant in Quebec, and I can tell that school name matters, pretty much all the time if you want to join high league audit offices as EY / KPMG / DELOITTE / PWC. Usually, people that are working there can attest the education quality AND pretty much everybody comes from high league university! Here, usually, students from HEC Montreal or McGill are more « privileged » than other universities!

Also, from the perspective of a patient, I couldn't care less about where my doctor went to med school. All I care about is, does this doctor have the empathy, skillset, and record of competency in medicine to help make me better?

Step 1 becoming pass/fail will ultimately give more weight to the “reputation” of the medical school during residency applications. While I agree that residency matters more, with the change to step 1 to P/F, your med school May very well play a role in where you go for residency. For example an applicant from a small state school with a 260 vs an Ivy League with a 210 will both say “PASS”, but PDs will probably pick the Ivy League grad because of the school name. Maybe step 2 will fill in that role, but who knows.

Great video! I'm a first-year med student at Toledo (in-state public MD school). With lower tuition (about 33k/yr) and low cost of living, I can graduate with less than $150k overall. Though with Step 1 becoming pass/fail, a lot of students worry that school prestige is going to play a bigger role in the match

Thank goodness for the GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon Program. Now all I have to do is the hard part of getting into and completing medical school. I'll be almost entirely debt free if I do though. Don't rule out military service if that's a route you're thinking about. It can open a lot of doors you couldn't previously afford to get through. I wouldn't join just for the money though, as you'd probably just be miserable for 4+ years. Lots of roads to get to the same place. One isn't always better than the other necessarily. Pick the route that's best for you, not the best for someone else.

Your suggestions are also on fire... 🔥

Just FYI, you were comparing Augusta’s semester tuition to Harvard’s yearly tuition!

Great video! There isn't enough emphasis on considering the culture of the school and students and working hard wherever you get in. I may have to chime in similarly on my channel. Thanks for the idea and keep up the great work!

That makes me feel a lil bit reliefed cuz I've recently graduated from med school and I'm starting my residency soon and I feel stressfull and nervious cuz I feel like I'm not really qualified or I'm not that well trained new doctor . I feel like I even don't deserve to be called a doctor . I forgot most of the thing I have learnd in med school and now I'm scared from the new door that's about to open . But now , I feel relaxed to know that residency what matters the most 🖤 . Thanks Dr.cellini . My greetings from Syria 🖤🇸🇾

Thanks for this video doctor, as a current applicant it's very helpful!

Thank you so much for your videos doc! You’re such an inspiration. I hope I become a doctor someday 😊

Hi! I just wanted to kindly mention that some of the information presented in this video is a little misleading. A better way to assess how expensive a school is is to look at the average student indebtedness, not necessarily the published tuition costs. Many “prestigious” schools matriculate individuals with very competitive academic histories. Because of this, merit based scholarships are awarded to the majority of students for all four years. If you look at MSAR, Harvard has an average student reported indebtedness of 111,000, whereas many of the state allopathic programs have an average student reported indebtedness of approximately 200k. Also, some schools that are seen as “less prestigious,” have the highest student indebtedness. For example, many osteopathic schools, because of their private status, have average student indebtedness near 300k. So, while I agree that the medical school doesn’t make the doctor, cost and “prestige” do not always correlate. Just thought this insight could be useful to someone out there, namely premeds!

Thank u for this video, very interesting 🧐... 💡 idea for next video as a sequel of this : “What are the criteria which are very useful for the acceptance of a residence program?”

Went to a DO medical school. Have colleagues who went to top-tier medical schools. I do the same shit they do, make the same exact amount of money they do, and at the end of the day, I am the same exact thing as they are. Where are you go to medical school doesn’t matter if your goal is to practice clinical medicine. If you want to run a research lab at a top-tier medical system, or if you want to be the head of the department at a prestigious hospital like Mass General, then yeah where you go to school and your pedigree matters. Outside of that narrow career aim, where you go doesn’t matter.

I'd say for more competitive specialties nowadays where you go to med school does matter. Since the USMLE is going to be pass/fail for my class (year 1 med student currently), you want everything possible that could help you to place into a better residency. Less standardized measures of comparing applicants = more subjectively and emphasis on thing like where you went to school. This means namesake of school by attending a well known university will weigh more and unfortunately I think it will affect IMG and DOs trying to get into more competitive specialties negatively and place more emphasis on those Ivey league grads. Personally now, I think it means more than ever where you go. And obviously attend IS over OOS if you aren't going Ivey League.

It's bizarre how expensive that is, here in brazil the best universities are the federal ones, and it's 100% for free, the student doesn't have to pay anything. I Love your channel 😊

You’re missing a key point. Top med school will undeniably help get you into a better residency. An allopathic school will also likely open more doors than an osteopathic.

I went into nursing at a hospital based diploma program. I already had a college degree so I had an easier time getting through the program. But, my class started out with 142 students and my graduating class was only 86! A lot of dropouts due to financial problems as well as poor academic performance. I was very fortunate that my parents could afford to send me to college then also pay for my diploma program so I did not acquire any personal debt. But I went back to college to get my BSN so I could teach in Nursing Staff Development. The BSN was paid off by the hospital because I signed a promissory note that I would continue to work at the hospital to “work off” the debt which was no big deal since I loved working at the hospital where I did my training. Getting admitted to nursing school to attain a BSN now is tougher than it used to be 40 years ago. And it is more expensive than it used to be and I know that a lot of newly graduated nurses are carrying a lot of loan debt now more than ever. I was so lucky with the financial support of my parents and the payoff program my hospital had in place. I was able to practice nursing with no great financial weight hanging over my head. Thank goodness.

All excellent points. True Med school isn’t as important as residency training but i think it does open more doors and provide more opportunities. You get to learb from the leaders in the field. Furthermore, I’d say that top Med schools are consistently ranking their graduates into higher tiered, more competitive residency programs and specialties. Sure you can rank into a top place from a lower tiered Med school, but I’d say that is less consistent.

"the finale: UCI's IDS's finally 'squeezed' a urine sample out of me back in August, under the pretense I can't get treated without a positive result. UCI's IDS's are my medical group's highest tertiary level IDS, and seemingly the final say in whether or not I finally get treated. I didn't hear back from them after the August encounter, and had to arrange a follow-up on my own, which wasn't available to me until January 7th at 1:00pm, back in October, (an entire 5 months later). This teleconference I arranged finally came around, and UCI's IDS's hadn't even gotten the result of my urine sample yet and told me they think I've had enough antibiotics and that they aren't giving me anymore...but for me to go back to the Emergency Department if my problem is bothering me to that degree..."

Hello Dr. Cellini, thanks so much for making this video. I loved it, and have subscribed to your channel! I did want to talk about some of my opinions regarding this topic. Firstly, there is a lot of variation within the ivy league medical schools in terms of affiliated hospital systems, affiliated residencies, research funding and opportuntites, and rotation sites. Harvard is obviously the best of the best, and Penn, Columbia, Cornell, and Yale are not too far behind. Brown and dartmouth, however, do not have nearly the same caliber of affiliated hospitals or the research funding of the other five ivy league schools. They are still definitely top tier schools, but I think entering academia could potentially be easier via other schools. I'm sure the ivy league name helps, but it's difficult to quantify how much it helps. Secondly, there are elite state schools whose reputations within medicine are just as good as, if not better than, those of ivy league schools. Examples include UCSF, UCLA, UMich, UPitt, and UTSW. I think attending any of these schools is considered highly impressive within the medical communitiy and can open the same doors that ivy league medical schools can. At the end of the day though, regardless of which med school someone goes to, they will become doctors once they finish!

I think there are some good point here, but it depends on your goals. If research is your thing and you want to be an academic clinician or match into a very competitive/small specialty, you are significantly advantaged at a top institution. Partially because you can work with that clinicians crank out leading research, great letters of rec, P/F grading on Step 1 and the recent loss of Step 2 CS. Like you were saying in the Academic vs. Private Practice video, training and working at a prestigious institution has your brand value already set. Like its pretty well studied that there is a significant advantage to match if you go to a Top-40 NIH funded medical school, per the Match results. I think the one caveat is that the traditional Ivy league designation doesn't really apply to medical schools/hospitals? Tbh the US News thing is something patients/physicians really care about when looking for how reliable/trustworthy a hospital/medical school is and only 3 Ivy League schools have made the top ten. You can't be saying that Hopkins, Mayo, Stanford, etc. are not at least on the same tier as Ivy leagues when Dartmouth is sitting at 50. But in general, yeah if you want to do many easier to match specialties, or other factors other than clout and leadership chasing are prioritized, it really doesn't matter. But if you do go to a not-highly ranked medical school, you definitely have to prove yourself way more to move up to these institutions. Finance-wise is really unique to your personal situation in medical school. Financial aid offices don't have a once size fits all approach to things like they do for undergrads where there are 100x larger student bodies. I find it hard to say that a more prestigious school is definitely more expensive than a less prestigious one, unless thats your in-state school.

Well reasoned.I really loved the analysis and perhaps the most well thought out...Thanks for doing what you do..

Good one . Genuine logical simple to understand advice from *_experience_* carries the most weight with me . Thanks , Hope your doing Well Doc 👍 .

Love these med school vids

Great insights as always!

This is so helpful im crying 😭

Thx for a nice and informative video Dr Cellini 👍🏼👌🏼

I agree that you can get any residency from any school, but from looking at residency matches, there seems to be certain schools that are great at matching certain specialties. For example, Penn state and Temple’s medical school have similar gpa and MCAT requirements, but Penn state matches twice as many orthopedic surgeons than Temple on average every year.

Thank you doctor. You really made it possible for me to have a sigh of relief. Thanks again.

I decided to pay extra to attend the “HMS/Penn/Yale tier”. Not only do most people get scholarships (so not many people pay the full $200k+), but as Dr. Cellini the name holds weight. It’s not just helpful for academia or research, it helps for those who know they really want to make world impact in an arena they’re interested in. While you do learn most of your skills in residency, again as Dr. Cellini stated, attending these schools does give you a slight upper hand for residency, especially with Step 1 being pass/fail (we are still not fully sure how this will affect residency applications). So if you’re debating between a “top school” or a cheaper state school, think a little bit deeper about your decision. Also happy to answer any questions ;)

Most people would rather put themselves in debt 💸 because their paying for the Name. -It’s not Worth it!!

Enjoyed the video Dr Cellini! Have a good day! :)

Thank you!!!!!!! Your Channel doesn’t miss .. stay humble plzzzzz🫶🏽

I totally agree all the doctor I work with have the same position and their colleges range from Harvard to no name schools and they do the same.

Most state schools are around $30k in tuition a year. Georgia is more of a cheaper exception

Same over here with Oxford and Cambridge..😁..you can argue the opening doors case but as regards medical education I’m not overtly convinced it’s any better and indeed there are many schools that have a better and more well rounded curriculum. Nice video 👏👏

You are amazing making me look at things much differently and considering I study medicine in a country far away from States. Even the country doesn't matter a slong as you are willing to learn.

THOSE Benjamin Franklins. MY HEART. I need CPR. SO MUCH IN LOANS.

I completely agree! However; now that the USMLE Step 1 is pass fail, do you think that Med School prestige will now be a factor in residency placements?

Here In India the Government medical colleges are highly subsidized and the best college AIIMS Delhi costs u less than a 100 $ per year including tution fee and hostel facilities. Ofc it can't be compared to Harvard but thats the best we have got 😀

If out of state tuition at Augusta was 28k per semester the yearly cost of tuition is 56k. Thats only 8k less a year than Harvard.

Hey doc, really love your videos. Speaking as someone not in the medical field, I think geography would be one of the major factors I would consider when deciding where to go to med school/residency. For example, if you wanted to practice emergency medicine or trauma surgery, you're probably going to get more experience in a city like Miami, Newark, or Los Angeles, than you would in a town in Wyoming or Montana. I don't think it would be as much of a factor if you wanted to practice psychiatry or family medicine. What do you think?

Hi Dr. Cellini, great video! It actually helped me a lot in making a decision between my in state medical school and another school I have an acceptance at. I was hoping to get your thoughts on how much of an impact residency program directors place on an applicant's medical school now that step 1 will be pass fail. Do you think the rank of an applicants medical school will influence their acceptance (excluding ivy leagues)? Thanks!

I’m applying in June, thank you for this. I’m from PA and lucky there are so many wonderful schools in my state. Hoping to go to a philly school like jefferson, Drexel, or temple. But I’ll definitely apply to UPenn ☺️

Thank you for another video on Med School Dr. Cellini!! You're one of the greatest sources of inspiration to me especially in my medical journey

Hai Dr. Cellini!! You've got one of those cool stand up desks! :P

I think your awesome and super enjoy your videos. We are from Atlanta. I’m in Nuclear medicine (technologist) my twins are at Tulane one who’s been asked to come to Harvard. So this is great insight. I appreciate you.

If Ivy League medical schools weren’t so impossible to get into, I wud say that it’s a better option lol. I’m in a 6 year bs/do program which I would choose a hundred times over any Ivy League undergraduate program, despite my chances at a much better medical school. My goals are like the many other physicians of the US, to get a residency (IM) in a decent area where I can provide for both served and underserved communities. I’d most likely be doing this even if I were go to a top 10 medical school, however, it would take me much longer to do so compared the program I’m in. Gap years for the mcat, shadowing, and research on top of the 8 year minimum time would not be worth it to me, regardless of getting an IM residency in one of the best hospitals in the country. Getting to study medicine and being the person someone can rely on for their medical needs is why I and many docs chose medicine, which is possible through all medical programs regardless of prestige.

I’m at the beginning of my medical education. Have you spent any time looking at programs that offer full tuition scholarships? There seems to be a big push for this. How can someone stand out when applying to these programs?

Any comments as to being a California resident, and considering medical school...it'd be a no-brainer to apply for all the UC medical schools right?

You should come work for Yale New Haven Hospital in New Haven, CT! I live minutes from this hospital. My daughter also works there. They would be lucky to have you 😃

What are your feelings on Caribbean Med school (like SGU or Ross)? They have a stigma around them but if they are US credited, and still produce good SMLE scores, does it really matter?

Is there still bad stigma on DOs from MDs? Is there still tough residency programs that to accept DOs?

Augusta is $56716 per year for out of state students according to your numbers at 5:19. That's ~90% of Harvard's tuition. Does it also give students 90% of the education and opportunities that Harvard does though?

As a student at a top tier institution, I would like to clarify something regarding financial aid. I am grateful to say that I will be paying a total of ~100k for 4 years of education which is incredible.

For residency do your first 2 years of Med school grades matter? are they put into consideration when being picked for residency and can they cost you a residency?

Great video! I am an M4 going into radiology, potentially IR. I was hoping in the next month you could make a video about how you made your radiology residency rank list. I know you touched on this in a previous video, but I submit my list in a month and it would be great to know what residency features you recommend prioritizing. I was a UNC undergrad and UNC is likely going to be near the top of my rank list (btw there is a photo of you on their interview day powerpoint). Thank you!

An important point to add is that most Ivy League medical schools (except for Dartmouth and Brown) tend to offer very robust financial aid packages. So, if you're middle to low SES, you'll likely end up paying a comparable amount, in addition to all the unnecessary privilege an Ivy League degree confers.

What about Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, and Stanford. I figured those were equal?

I heard because of STEP 1 becoming Pass/Fail, in order to get good residencies your med school will actually matter more. What do you think of this?

Thank you so much for this dr Cellini, my dream med school is Yale with a close second being either Harvard or NYU but now I have to really think about going to a state school! If I were to get a scholarship it would be helpful but we will see! Thank you so much!

$400k that's crazy, it makes me realise how lucky I am to live in a country (Scotland) where it is free (government pays the full tuition) for my medical degree.

Stuck between Mri Tech and CRNA 😞 I have a bad feeling that I will flock so bad and CRNA Med School is a pass or fail situation and your chances is only ONE!

Thank you!

Hi doctor! Am seeking for some med school in the USA of course but it’s so expensive! I can’t afford that price! So what should i do?

Who Else than me watches these doctor channels as patient only 🙋‍♂️

Great Video Dr.C, I did have a thought for you, how do you think USMLE Step 1 going pass-fail will impact the importance of the med school you go to in order to get into residency.

For young people to be in debt for so much money is insane! I pay 42 Euro per year for medical university

What if someone studied in Europe and wanted to do residency in the US?

True it "doesn't" matter but you should know that would apply to US but not in countries like singapore, if i were to study overseas and come to singapore and work, i would need Accreditation/ eligible/ recognised degree in other countries. its quite sad for me to live in a country in singapore as it is very competitive. :)

Personally I prefer knowing my Dr has graduated from McGill and love the MUHC approach of the teaching hospitals. I know tuition in Quebec is the generally the lowest in Canada, although I’m not sure when it comes to medical school. Example my son will have his degree in game design for just around 10,000 in Quebec University versus minimum 25,000+ in Ontario. NOT medical s hook of course but wonder how McGill measures up?

If you are at the top of your class you can match well anywhere but if you are in the middle of the class, you will generally match at better programs from a top medical school than from a less prestigious medical school. Most students at top medical schools do not go into research.

I believe you were comparing per semester fees of the in-state school vs per year fees for Harvard. in-state is still cheaper but not $14K per year.

MCG graduate here... I applied to 3 med schools and MCG was my first choice. Most definitely well worth it for most cases (with some rare exceptions). Had very little med school debt and paid it off very quickly after residency. Would recommend the same to everyone applying. Don't waste your money on expensive med schools if you don't have to.

Me a Swede, see the costs and getting a little bit shocked. Here we actually get paid (not that much but anyways) to go to university, and we almost have free healthcare. But in another way we don’t have these prestige-full university’s in the same way as you (in the US) and the taxes are WAY higher.

I see the point and it definitely stands - but I think you may have been looking at semester costs in the public university vs yearly for Harvard. The out-of-state tuition at the state school said ~28k per semester which makes 58 a year compared to 64/year at Harvard.

I want to be a doctor like you in the future

Great insight!

So you said that where you go to medical school ultimately doesn't matter because you learn your craft in residency. If you went to a state school or lesser known school for medical school, would that impact which residencies you get into? For example you want to go to a top residency program thats not in the Ivy bubble

I am really grateful to my government they not only teach us for free but give us a monthly stipend. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

The Georgia in-state and out of state tuition is not by year, but instead per semester. This can be a little misleading but the difference between a state school like the Georgia one is still way less the price.

Id like to know if the medical schools in the Caribbean are considered to fit within the “second tier”

Do you think the step 1 going to pass fail make a difference?

I think it should be noted though that while that may be the technical cost of attendence at harvard, i highly doubt the vast majority of students pay that much. students who are competitive enough to get into harvard are competitive enough to get into other schools and compete for scholarships. What may be a better statistic is looking at the average debt of the student coming out of harvard. i admit this may be a bit biased because more affluent students are probably more likely to be accepted to higher tier medical schools (for a variety of factors mainly attributed to having more opportunities. ultimately, the best stat may be to look at average debt leaving medical school normalized to net worth. good video non-the less

What about Stanford and Duke medical school which technically aren’t Ivy. Do you think the extra $200,000 would be worth it for those or is it still not the same as Harvard?

Imagine being me, I have a 4 year degree in nursing that was completely covered by scholarships (cGPA 4.0). No student debt. Now, instead of going to PMHNP program for 35k I'm going to a Caribbean medical knowing full well I have a 60% chance of matching as an IMG with 250k private loan debt.