Why your VN Characters feel Wooden (and How to Fix it!)

  Рет қаралды 33,168

Visual Novel Design

Visual Novel Design

Жыл бұрын

Writing for Video Games is different from writing for Books, Comics, and TV, and you need to treat your story accordingly! This video teaches a design methodology for your player to interact with your characters, and how to make story beats for your Visual Novel, Interactive Fiction, or other Narrative games hit HARDER!

Пікірлер: 123
@XX-sp3tt
@XX-sp3tt 2 ай бұрын
If you have a game that centers on interaction... then having a cut scene where the player can't do anything is all the more powerful.
@wren3060
@wren3060 Жыл бұрын
First off, can I say how much I appreciate that this wasn't just a regurgitation of the Hero's Journey format? I love how you've laid it out as more of a cycle, which makes more sense for an interactive, branching narrative. Your choices can affect a character's whole path, and sets off another cycle. I've written/illustrated comics, short stories, and worked in AAA games, and somehow creating my own visual novel now is so much more complicated. But I like the challenge! Keeping tabs on where characters change (and, as you've pointed out, WHY they change) is a whole beast of its own. You really do have to follow through, while adapting the story to flow around those choices regardless. Great video!
@Yggdrasilincarnate
@Yggdrasilincarnate 28 күн бұрын
I have definitely played some games where it’s felt like an exercise in lockpicking rather than feeling free to get to know the character just to avoid a bad ending… you put into words exactly why that was annoying!
@ShadowoftheMask
@ShadowoftheMask 11 ай бұрын
This does reminds me of how Scarlet Hollow made me realize how much more immersive it is when each interaction with character isn't followed up with "+5/-5 affection" :'D
@flowerbloom5782
@flowerbloom5782 18 күн бұрын
This is so useful even for stories cause character action is important .
@Barbieronpa
@Barbieronpa Жыл бұрын
Just wanna say, this is one of the most underrated channels I’ve ever seen. I’m currently planning my first original visual novel and nearly every video has helped in some way or another. Really hope you get the recognition you deserve and thanks for the amazing vids!! ❤
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm glad I'm helping, and best of luck on your first visual novel!
@miserablepumpkin9453
@miserablepumpkin9453 Жыл бұрын
Huh, so that's why certain VNs and Dating Sims feel super frustrating! I never understood why before this video, thanks for clarifying that
@ArentEchidnasCool
@ArentEchidnasCool Ай бұрын
This was an easy watch with great info! I really like how you made up simple example scenarios with the bookworm girl. It helped me visualize (haha) what I could do with my own characters and story with that reference as a guideline.
@bamb00zld
@bamb00zld 7 ай бұрын
Cannot put into words how helpful it is to have resources like this. Screenwriting was my major in college--mostly with a professor who was extremely strict about how every word should matter and anything that isn't driving the plot forward should be thrown in the dumpster. While story structures like The Hero's Journey are still commonly seen in visual novels, I have always struggled to make any player choices feeling meaningful. The chart you show here for having meaningful interactions/choices in a VN will no doubt be helpful with my work. Anyway, your videos are very helpful and each one I watch is reducing my anxiety about the Winter VN Jam bit by bit.
@vimi
@vimi 7 ай бұрын
I'm glad this will be some help! Best of luck for Winter VN Jam!
@Musashi246
@Musashi246 Жыл бұрын
Could you please do a video about "How to make a VN as solo developer" - Focusing on the overwhelming amount of work that needs to be done and how to handle it
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
I'll add it to my list!
@michaelcividanes2930
@michaelcividanes2930 2 ай бұрын
Oof, yes please!
@ttlbrh
@ttlbrh Жыл бұрын
6 months ago I took my first try in a novel jam, and you were the one who taught me everything Tomorrow I will start my new jam, more experienced than earlier, and you're still the one who guides me Thank you so much!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Congrats! Best of luck on the jam!
@KigyoDev
@KigyoDev Жыл бұрын
Excellent advice. Thank you! I also appreciate you pointing out that a decisive moment doesn't always have to be a branching "good VS bad" choice. Just having one choice can be enough, since setting it apart as a choice already makes the player feel more involved.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
I'm getting a video idea 🤔
@KigyoDev
@KigyoDev Жыл бұрын
@@vimi Haha, looking forward to it :D
@ZohGaEri
@ZohGaEri Жыл бұрын
omg this makes so much sense!! it feels like something i've known all my life but didn't have the ability to think and put to use consciously!! thank you so much!!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
That's why it's helpful for myself to make these videos - it forces me to think critically about my design sensibilities and choices, and codify them so I tactfully use them in the future!
@IndigoNorthstar
@IndigoNorthstar Жыл бұрын
I want to say thank you for making this videos as the best tutorials on the subject. I am writing a VN in Ren'py and learn as i go. Your movies are so inspirering, creative and still gets the message across. I hope we will see more in the future. Lots of luck!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much!
@zeemmy33
@zeemmy33 Жыл бұрын
This video is really helpful and well edited, I have no idea why the channel isn't more popular
@jinzolaamenazadelamaquina8287
@jinzolaamenazadelamaquina8287 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been watching so much on writing characters recently and I see this new vid by my fav vn dev? Hell yeah!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Hell yeah!
@superstarben37
@superstarben37 Жыл бұрын
God DAMN I love it when a new video of yours pops up! Always so excited to sit down and watch them. Keep up the great work, you've got some fantastic insights!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@InkyIsScared
@InkyIsScared Жыл бұрын
I'd be interested in looking at how stat raising games do/do not fit into this formula. They aren't my cup o' VN tea so I haven't played a lot, but to me it feels like they often fall into that lockpicking problem and I haven't seen one that does it exceptionally well. Partially I think it's because they fumble the consequences side of the equation. Yes choosing to run after school every day does eventually unlock Athlete-chan's secret cutscene, but what it FEELS like you get in the moment is it has very little consequence because your immediate feedback is just "+1 Speed!" Also maybe it ends up dividing the weight of the consequences between all those little ones so if you have to run 100 times to unlock the special scene the scene feels 100x less important? IDK. I'm just talking out loud haha. I've heard Scarlet Hollow does really interesting stat raising stuff, where it's more determining your character's perceived by the npcs due to what YOU do in the establishing character phase.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
This formula really only works in terms of how the player character interacts with characters around them, and it's not something that needs to necessarily be applied to games; just a writing tool that may have some overlap with the narrative processes of preexisting games! If you were to take this tool and apply it to that sort of interaction, I'd have Athlete-Chan offer a challenge to the player: run X number of times within Y days, and depending on that, she'd offer them "a reward". This would be an extended Expose period, with the change depending on whether or not the player hit expectations.
@aidenb3069
@aidenb3069 Жыл бұрын
I've been binging you're videos. There's so helpful, easy to understand and fun to watch. Thank you!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm glad you've been enjoying them!
@rickityrox814
@rickityrox814 11 ай бұрын
I just discovered your channel, but thank you for all the tips for Ren’Py it has been a major help!
@reyt.1967
@reyt.1967 Жыл бұрын
this is so helpful thank you!!! Working on my visual novel rn and this is great
@VOCAR0SE
@VOCAR0SE Жыл бұрын
as a dr fan i gasped as i saw komaru
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
I am having more fun with Ultra Despair Girls than I thought I'd have!
@VOCAR0SE
@VOCAR0SE Жыл бұрын
@@vimi omg AND ur a dr fan? 😭 best renpy channel ever
@undeadbedhead6138
@undeadbedhead6138 11 ай бұрын
hi, love your videos man! very helpful
@Pixxeria
@Pixxeria Жыл бұрын
Yaay! Always happy to see your content
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thanks! It's a lot of effort, but hopefully my content helps!
@limondaes
@limondaes Жыл бұрын
Yesssss I loved this! The draw of most games to me are the characters and prodding them to see what they'll do, so I really appreciated seeing a thought process behind how to do this. I was also going to ask about whether this cycle starts over again as the story progresses, or if that's the ENTIRETY of a character's development in a plot, but then you answered that for me in the second half, hahaha. Thanks! Also, great video!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm glad you liked it!
@Iceblade269
@Iceblade269 2 ай бұрын
Man, would love to see more content
@TheRoadTraveledByFew
@TheRoadTraveledByFew Жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the videos. Very informative and well made.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@BearBoyJW
@BearBoyJW 11 ай бұрын
Another video I've enjoyed watching and I think I've learned a lot from. I don't have much to say, so I guess will just finish off by saying Hi haha Thanks for another good learning sessions!
@retrofraction
@retrofraction Жыл бұрын
Wow this is good! I will have to try this out
@ayafan3876
@ayafan3876 Жыл бұрын
Really helpful for my game. I love the writing tutorials -- your vid on "how to write a visual novel" is one of my go-tos!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Glad I could help!
@OverlordJake
@OverlordJake 7 ай бұрын
10:04 It's sweet to see a Dead Milkmen reference.
@dabash00r
@dabash00r Жыл бұрын
Good job on explaining character developing progress :)
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@arvinbjorkgren965
@arvinbjorkgren965 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the amazing videos!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@the_rat_under_the_hat
@the_rat_under_the_hat Жыл бұрын
hi!!! very helpful video, thank you!
@bloodrunsclear
@bloodrunsclear Жыл бұрын
I just got into VN, these videos have been very helpful
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'me glad they've been a help!
@watchandlearnLboard
@watchandlearnLboard Жыл бұрын
havent even watched the video yet but just wanted to say I love your content, keep it up :)
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I'm doing my best!
@definitelyhuman4510
@definitelyhuman4510 Жыл бұрын
Hey, thanks for the video! Last time I checked your video about how to write visual novel. Although it's really helpful to give general idea about how to write VN properly, can you go into more details for each part? Especially the part about the draft and story branch since it's more confusing and needs extra attention. You can also give example of the the VNs or story on which this technique applied.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
I'll get back to that with some genre-specific writing videos!
@BenAtkinArt
@BenAtkinArt 11 ай бұрын
I love your content so much. I hope you're doing well!
@Jaopazo
@Jaopazo Жыл бұрын
Great content thanks!!!!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Glad you like it!
@mywelldark
@mywelldark 10 ай бұрын
Hey, I really appreciate your videos. Hope you're doing well and that things are going okay for you. Thank you and keep doing what you love to do.
@vimi
@vimi 10 ай бұрын
Thanks! I should have a new video out in less than a month, but I'm in the middle of a long term project that has taken a lot of my attention, that I might want to make some videos about someday
@mywelldark
@mywelldark 10 ай бұрын
@@vimi _"I'm in the middle of a long term project that has taken a lot of my attention"_ That sounds exciting! Love to hear that. And, whether you release another video or not anytime soon, long as you're doing well and enjoying (at least overall since sometimes I'm sure it can be a bit frustrating lol) what you're doing. Just wanted to thank you and check in on you is all cause you're more than your entertaining and informative videos.
@ladyshady9618
@ladyshady9618 Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for these videos, they are always super helpful. I just have one question. Is it possible to make a melee game similar to Skullgirls in Ren'py
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Anything is possible, but not everything is advisable. Do not try to make a fighting game in Ren'py.
@evil_in_your_closet
@evil_in_your_closet Жыл бұрын
This video is great! I think, one of the games that really pulls all of this off really well would be Danganronpa. Totally fell in love with that game btw. Also: Hi :)
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Hi :) I'm currently running through a few Danganronpa games (including Ultra Despair Girls!), and I also enjoy them a lot!
@evil_in_your_closet
@evil_in_your_closet Жыл бұрын
@@vimi HA! I actually finished Part 1 roughly before christmas and cant wait to start part 2 soon! And of course i am also looking forward to Ultra Despair Girls! Generally ,the characters and story telling are just SO SO good! And i feel they really followed the principles of your vidceo (regarding character changes and interactions) to the tee. And theres not a single character that i dont AT LEAST appreciate!
@ActiveDayDreamer
@ActiveDayDreamer Жыл бұрын
Taking notes on your video, I noticed a difference with what you put up on the screen versus what you said in audio. You put up on the screen at 6:05 minutes: "The Player should have a few interactions with the Character until hitting this stage." In the audio correlating to that reference at 6:02 minutes, you state halfway: "It's great to save the Expose and Change sections until the players had a set number of interactions with the player first..." Do you mean, "It's great to save the Expose and Change sections until the players had a set number of interactions with the character first..."? Otherwise, it's a great, well-edited, and entertaining video that I will learn and take use from. Props to you for a job well done!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Slightly different, but close enough! Probably should have said "before" instead of "until", but it's the same basic message - the player needs to have the character established and enforced before hitting the Expose + Change stages!
@angelos3049
@angelos3049 Жыл бұрын
Quite informative video. One thing problem I am sort of running into is creating meaningful and impactful interactions between my characters and protagonist. Using a silent protagonist really ups the difficulty.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
It's definitely an adjustment! Lots of "implied" responses, actions replacing words, no internal monologue to fall back on, and you'll be relying on a lot more monologues! Having a narrator helps, though, if you can get away with it!
@angelos3049
@angelos3049 Жыл бұрын
@@vimi Totally. One of the hardest parts is having scenes end in a natural way or to properly get characters to talk and ask things. A narrator definitely helps during scene transitions. One question I have is if you'll ever do a video on code for updating ypur visual novel after you've released it? Hard to find proper guides on it.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
@@angelos3049 I just reupload the game to itch.io or steam - your save files are generally saved to a different part of the user's computer, so players can do a complete reinstall, and it shouldn't affect their saves! If you want episodic DLC, there are some workarounds, but I'd have to test them before I can do a video on them!
@dailyfunnytv358
@dailyfunnytv358 Жыл бұрын
we need more of your content
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Working on it!
@hutala
@hutala Жыл бұрын
Hi! Just wanted to say, as a new VN dev I have watched almost every video of this channel and it has helped me a lot. The videos are easy to understand and there's many great ideas, which I plan to incorporate in my game. Under this video I saw a comment about what to show to the player. So I thought, what things should I and should I not show to the player? Telling them to click and explore as much as possible can be written in the game's download site. Telling that inside the game seems a bit patronizing. Also how much is too much? I plan to include time passage, combat, multiple endings, but I was wondering if this might repel the usual VN player. What do you think?
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Put in whatever mechanics and systems you feel would be fun in your game, but ultimately, clear communication to the players is critically important! When your game is content complete, get some friends, family, and strangers to be playtesters, and pay attention to what the players understand, what they miss, or any other unintended behavior you're producing through your systems. Usually, the most problematic elements will be the ones you least expected! In my first solo-developed game, I removed manual saving, and had the game autosave regularly instead. Unfortunately though, I didn't explicitly communicate the autosave feature to the players, so there were a few people who thought they had to play the ALL the game endings through in one sitting, instead of the intended "casual half-hour playthrough with repeat gameplay" behavior I was looking for! The solution? An "Autosaved!" popup at the end of each of the 5-minute chapters. Nothing patronizing about it, just simple communication. Best of luck on your project!
@hutala
@hutala Жыл бұрын
@@vimi Thank you for replying. Yes, my game isn't done yet, but I plan to post the demo for a jam in a month and that's why I asked. A friend of mine did play it and he actually complained that I didn't give that much info about the MC right off the bat which I found a bit surprising and wasn't expecting. I guess I put too much of the MC's info outside of the intro and that might make the player not feel engaged in the story.
@fallahan
@fallahan Жыл бұрын
Hey, VND, I have a question. Maybe this can be discussed in a future video, but I was wondering...how should I approach breaking immersion in order to give the player help. For example in my game I am making now, I have included quite some point and click segments that aren't crucial, but give lore info abou the world. The game doesn't tell the player to click around the screen, but I sort of hinted it in the best way I could without breaking immersion. How should I approach this?
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
There's a difference between "Immersion breaking" and "incongruous", and as long as you stay within standard design conventions, players will accept it in stride. You can put a contextual "!" exclamation mark icon over something they haven't pressed before, give it a little animated wiggle, and that should be enough to get players to press on an object of interest. As long as you have the design match the rest of your UI, it doesn't read as "out of place"; the player will see it as an extension of the games existing interface. If that's not enough (and it might not be!) use a pop up that says "Click the "!" icon for more lore about the world", that appears if they haven't pressed a "!" within a the last few interactions.
@faiyazahmed7838
@faiyazahmed7838 Жыл бұрын
Bro could you plz make a video on compiling ren'py games for Android,PC and IOS plzzz ... I'm Searching whole KZfaq but didn't find anything plz it's a request 🙏
@blackknight3097
@blackknight3097 Жыл бұрын
How open all scene in fashion bussniness🙏
@FabioKun
@FabioKun Жыл бұрын
I have a request. I'm not sure when or if you will see this but, first of all, thank you for al the tutorials, it's helped me greatly. Second, is it possible for you to make a tutorial on how to make character eyes follow mouse cursor?
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
I actually do not know how to do that yet! I have some ideas on how it can be implemented, though 🧠
@FabioKun
@FabioKun Жыл бұрын
​@@vimi I looked around and someone suggested something to do with math and dot product and steering behaviour... This to say all I want it for is to make a feline character follow the cursor when it is a red dot, lol.
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
​​ @Fabio Kun Honestly, that sounds about right, but if you're willing to compromise your vision, you can make it much simpler! If you wanted to do exactly that, have the character's eyes follow the cursor, you would have to create a custom class definition to track the cursor, and then interpolating that data in real time would require a separate function that would be pretty elaborate too. Probably a lot of time to code it properly, or at least modify code you found from someone else. If you're willing to go dumb basic with it though, you could create a screen with a series of invisible buttons, and then depending on which button you're hovering over, change the pupils to a new position aimed at that general area. Way less time to do that! If you wanted to go EVEN SIMPLER, you can change that section of your game so you need to aim the laser pointer at a particular spot to get the character reaction, and until then, the feline character will pretend they don't even care about the laser pointer. Literally a one button screen, and the restraints lend themselves to some structured interaction. Personally, I like simplifying the interactions as much as I can, since it tends to forces me to be more creative with the implementation, and once I have the interaction made, I start to think of all the other different ways I can reuse, reskin, and recontextualize that mechanic throughout my game!
@hasamat38
@hasamat38 7 ай бұрын
This while video can be sumed up to "you know how human interaction go, Make it that" Side note: profound human interaction to what ever extent you want them to be
@f1reshark308
@f1reshark308 Жыл бұрын
Could you please make a new Action Editor tutorial? Cecause it looks very different now, and idk how to use it :/
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Action Editor is going to look a lot different another year from now too! Most of the basics are still the same, though! From what I recall, the big difference is now the sliding bars are the animation timeline instead of a slider for the value, so now you can just want to adjust those numbers by tapping, holding, and sliding your mouse up or down to change the number.
@toxicshroom3686
@toxicshroom3686 Жыл бұрын
I was just making a simliar "cycle" , it's good to have another source to compare it to tho
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
How are you handling your "cycle"? I also want to compare!
@toxicshroom3686
@toxicshroom3686 Жыл бұрын
@@vimi Oh thanks. You see I was working on kind of a general Flowchart for narratives within routes. You meet the character (1st Impression) => 2nd Encounter(You get involved)=> Empathy(You see the pieces of a character's conflict) =>Special (Every Problem and Person Is different , Spice It Up)=>Conflict (The root of the problem) =>Doubt=>Choice => Resolution.
@toxicshroom3686
@toxicshroom3686 Жыл бұрын
Btw love your channel. It's such a Helpful Dynamic Edutaiment and I'm all in, I've already seen all of your videos .
@creator-link
@creator-link Жыл бұрын
Hi!
@MxVerdaArt
@MxVerdaArt 7 ай бұрын
I swear I'm not ttrying to be a contrarian (right this second, anyway) but what about a VN a bit more like real life, where you don't always get closure? I could understand leaving hints that not every player will pick up, much less every playthru. It just feels like referring to conventional stories as examples to follow rather than examples that you may choose to follow or not might be a bit limiting?
@gallowsparadise6392
@gallowsparadise6392 Жыл бұрын
Not sure if you are still reading comments or liking or whatever but I need someone ANYONE to help with the audio I’ve inserted it says the file cannot be found but it is very clearly there and it’s stressing me out any help would be appreciated!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Try saving your audio as different audio file types. Renpy won't recognize certain types of waveforms, so I use the program Audacity to change up the soundfile exports.
@baltiir2953
@baltiir2953 Жыл бұрын
What game is at 10:54? that art is beautiful!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
That's "Dream Daddy"!
@baltiir2953
@baltiir2953 Жыл бұрын
@@vimi thank you for letting me know :)
@Akindex
@Akindex Жыл бұрын
Hi
@scrotumlamp6306
@scrotumlamp6306 Жыл бұрын
how do you code in two different textboxs if you want one for narrator that doesnt have name
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
When you define a character, you don't have to give it a name. Edit: I'm pretty sure the minimum amount of code you'd need to define a character without a name is "define n=Character()"
@scrotumlamp6306
@scrotumlamp6306 Жыл бұрын
@@vimi ok thank you but how do i use a different png for a a specific characters textbox
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
@@scrotumlamp6306 "define n = Character (window_background="your_image_here.png")" www.renpy.org/doc/html/dialogue.html#Character
@ckproject1882
@ckproject1882 11 ай бұрын
at 1:00 someone is playing League on a controller. How come no one is talking about that?
@vimi
@vimi 11 ай бұрын
Stock footage sites are hilarious like that
@nadiarey4196
@nadiarey4196 10 ай бұрын
Hi. I just want my hi back.
@warrust
@warrust Жыл бұрын
Unexpected Muramasa footage
@anatoliyadonin8013
@anatoliyadonin8013 Жыл бұрын
Hi 🙂
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
🙂 hi!
@otakusociety9240
@otakusociety9240 Жыл бұрын
Second
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
nice
@Dwagoober
@Dwagoober Жыл бұрын
Heya!
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
Hi!
@Allahuakbar123_
@Allahuakbar123_ Жыл бұрын
I am a 13 year old who is ned to game development but I'm currently working on making a doki doki style game about a game studio making a horror game. The game has been in years of development (in game game) and has a virus which is eating the code to streghnthen it and also uses the computers to hypnotise the workers into becoming it's slave. The main characters are gonna try survive in the game studio which is going to go through allot of development...
@otakusociety9240
@otakusociety9240 Жыл бұрын
Second
@vimi
@vimi Жыл бұрын
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