"WikiLeaks and Whistleblowing: An Exposé That Shook The World" with Julian Assange

Рет қаралды 15,276

Жыл бұрын

Welcome to another episode of Conversations with Coleman.
Today I'm going to try something new. Instead of publishing an interview that I did myself, or a Q&A where I answer your questions, I'm going to use my platform to publish an interview conducted by somebody else. Now, this requires a bit of an explanation. My friend Desh Amila, who's a filmmaker and producer, organized an event with Julian Assange in 2017. He filmed the event at the time and then forgot all about it until a few days ago when he came across the footage by coincidence. When Desh offered to publish this footage using my platform, I was hesitant at first, because I worry that publishing this on my podcast would give people the impression that I support Julian Assange's actions, or that I support WikiLeaks as an organization.
So let me say this upfront - I'm agnostic about whether Julian Assange and WikiLeaks have done more good than harm for the world, as their supporters must believe. It's just not clear to me, and my publishing of this interview should not be taken by anyone as an endorsement either of him or of WikiLeaks. As all of you are aware, I'm a big defender of free speech and transparency. Therefore, you might expect that I would always take the side of the whistleblower who reveals important secrets held by governments or powerful corporations. For example: I had Frances Haugen, the Facebook whistleblower on this show just a few months ago and I gave her a very friendly interview because I thought that what she revealed about Facebook was clearly a net good for the world. However, my support for free speech and transparency in general, doesn't automatically extend to every specific release of hacked information, especially in cases where that information could hurt people.
You will be able to hear more of my thoughts on Julian Assange and WikiLeaks in the introduction to the episode.
So with that said, I present this never before seen interview with Julian Assange.
**Update**
I saw a lot of comments about the interviewer's tone throughout the interview and I wanted to give you all some context. The interviewer is from a satirical Australian enterprise called The Chaser. They are most famous for their newspaper and website which are known to push the limits as to what they publish and for "striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence." They are known for their sarcastic take on politics and current affairs. This explains why the interviewer seems to hold a sarcastic tone throughout this interview.
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Пікірлер: 131

@ColemanHughesOfficial Жыл бұрын

Glad you caught the show. Let me know what you think in the comments and I’ll reply as soon as I can. If you’re a regular listener and would like to show your support and gain access to exclusive talks with some incredible minds, check out the Coleman Unfiltered membership here: bit.ly/3B1GAlS

@milestackettmusic Жыл бұрын

I absolutely appreciate and support you using your platform to share information like this or share other peoples contact that you feel is valuable. I must say you made a couple very good points in your criticism of massages Afghan and even the DNC Leaks regarding wiki leaks failure to redact information that the public did not need to see and could have compromised innocent parties. Thank you again Coleman

@PClanner Жыл бұрын

Honest feedback - had you done the interview it would have been more pertinent, respectful and informative. The guy doing it came across as trying too hard, possibly thought he was been edgy, but to me, only succeeded in being a dick. He asked irrelevant questions and spoilt the interview with interjections that came across as petty. This is a great lesson in not how to conduct an interview. You would have done it 1000% better.

@isaac1572 Жыл бұрын

Chas Licciardello, The interviewer from ABC Australia is known for his satirical political comedy and yes, he is being a dick during this interview. However it is great that Coleman Hughes has published this interview. It is one of the few times that I've seen Julian Assange be able to explain his perspective. From what I've seen consecutive Australian governments have failed to support, protect, or defend one of our own citizens. Assange has tried to 'keep the bastards honest' But the USA government doesn't like it when their war crimes are exposed.

@anthonyhsiao4560 Жыл бұрын

Yeah fully agreed. The interviewer was not great, smug, and not deep

@nancycorbeil2666 Жыл бұрын

Cannot compare Julian Assange and Frances Haugen. Only one of them is actually a whistleblower.

@hackandslash873 Жыл бұрын

That was riveting, the Assange interview, not so much your hesitancy. Thanks for sharing though.

@Lopfff Жыл бұрын

The interviewer’s constant attempts at little dumb jokes, when Assange is clearly not in the mood (and possibly going insane), is annoying

@yungacid1 Жыл бұрын

For real though...

@nicki7397 Жыл бұрын

Came here to say this, so to anyone involved the production of this show: not this interviewer again, please.

@stevelivingston8091 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting. I was disappointed you weren't interacting, but thanks for using your platform to expose more people to this perspective.

@Sam-vf5uc Жыл бұрын

Broke: Australia is a country Woke: Australia isn't real Truly on another plane of existence 👏👏👏

@TDQ_Gaming Жыл бұрын

In general, if the truth causes harm it's a problem with what the truth is, not that it was revealed.

@forrestsamnik1661 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for having the courage to put this to the public! It says to me you respect your audience‘s ability to parse the wheat from the chaff.

@RKupyr Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Where else would we have the option of watching that? Up to us to decide what to do with it. Thank you Coleman.

@emilyrissling9703 Жыл бұрын

Thank For your Courage To give US this information,

@daveferranda9379 Жыл бұрын

Desh "forgot" he interviewed one of the biggest names of this century in front of an audience? Come on!

@AK2Auburn Жыл бұрын

Yeah, give me a break. He didn't get the green light from his superiors at the time. Perhaps he deserves credit for finally bringing it to light tho.

@ForeverYoungKickboxer Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting and getting this out to more people. Was really hoping YOU somehow landed an interview with Asange and was excited to see it!

@trashmon Жыл бұрын

I found your up-front disclaimer a bit odd - if you listen to the interview, Assange addresses almost everything you brought up. And if you don't believe him, why air the interview at all?

@geoffreygreen3521 4 ай бұрын

Julian is the greatest reporter in my life time

@robertryan1663 Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate this being posted and would welcome more content like it. I was originally very skeptical of WikiLeaks, but like so many others I have been red pill with these last couple of years. I have to say I didn't really disagree with anything Julian had to say. When a journalist can be prosecuted for telling inconvenient truths, democracy is definitely in trouble.

@Zidana123 Жыл бұрын

The real lesson of Assange is this: Independent Investigative Journalism is dead If you want to do real work you have to have a backer (and you have to make sure your backer is serious and will come through in a pinch and not just making noises in your direction like a Trump or something), and you have to accept a certain degree of compromise from your backer, because he will surely have stuff he doesn't want you to talk about Otherwise you _will_ be destroyed, they will swat you like a fly, it's not even funny how fast it goes :x

@goodwill_ken Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting this.

@themismatchlounge Жыл бұрын

Had some real technical issues trying to get this video to play. I suspect YT don't like this one.

@isaac1572 Жыл бұрын

Thank you Coleman for publishing this interview of Julian Assange. As an Australian it is one of the few times I've seen him give his perspective on issues. Successive Australian Governments have failed to support, protect, or defend Assange. The interviewer, Chas Licciardello is known as a satirical, political comic and tries to be funny at the beginning, but it settles into a worthwhile interview. Thanks again. It appears Assange has just attempted to "keep the bastards honest", [ to use a famous Australian political term ], but he has trodden on some big toes. The US government don't like it when their War Crimes are exposed.

@davidlamb7524 8 ай бұрын

80% of Aussies support Assange yet the government are more concerned with what the Americans want than their own people. Cowards and traitors the lot of them.

@chickenfishhybrid44 2 ай бұрын

Literally no government likes when any of their wrongdoings are exposed

@cammac6550 Жыл бұрын

Good Afternoon Coleman, I appreciate your hosting this interview . I share your mixed thoughts and inability to confidently slip Wikileaks into net gain vs loss . When you happen upon something like this I’d appreciate your posting in the future also . Thanks and enjoy your day .

@emmyelijah7395 Жыл бұрын

12 minutes in and this interview sounded like one where a caged animal was being mocked at by zoo visitors. The only thing left is to take this P. T. Barnum show on the road.

@rublo1 Жыл бұрын

Net good for the world, Coleman if you do more research on julian Assange I’m sure you will come to the same conclusion. Hope you take the effort to do so

@therationalguard7935 Жыл бұрын

Are you able to get Julian Assange for an interview? That would be amazing. I think you would ask great questions and keep the conversation on the point.

@k11k72 Жыл бұрын

Very important 👏🏻

@ivorc8957 Жыл бұрын

Awesome!

@WillTheSage Жыл бұрын

What a terrible interviewer

@taxidermyable Жыл бұрын

how comfortable is that fence you're sitting on?

@essiotll Жыл бұрын

The interviewer could joke a tad less and let Julian expound, moreso.

@davidegentile2324 Жыл бұрын

Coleman, you asked for feedback. Here's mine. This episode is definitely 'off brand' but it was interesting none the less. I would suggest that if there are future opportunities to publish other people's work I would suggest you be extremely judicious with what you agree to republish. If the material is of very high quality and republishing occurs infrequently then I see it as a net benefit to your channel and brand.

@mindofwaves4470 Жыл бұрын

Your balanced perspective and resistance to personal bias is admirable Coleman, not to say you are perfect, as if anyone can be, but your awareness of what it takes to convey information in a balanced manner is something I have always appreciated, keep it up, and thank you edit: spelling

@fatalconceit9713 Жыл бұрын

I think it will be best if you kept this channel to just your own stuff. You could create another channel titled "Coleman Hughes presents" or something like that. Viewers would be confused if they tuned into the Oprah Winfrey show and found strangers on it in a completely different set - even if Oprah had done an intro.

@jennycatlike Жыл бұрын

I prefer your interviews.

@Godocker Жыл бұрын

This was such a horrible interview, but, well, to be expected from the chaser crew

@wepoststuff Жыл бұрын

I appreciated what you said at the start of the video and think that if you do post more content of other people you should do the same thing. With that being said, I made it about 20mins into this before I stopped because I'm just not a fan of how the interviewer conducts the interview.

@ChristinaChrisR Жыл бұрын

It was dreadful to the point I actually was embarrassed-by-proxy, sort of. But I can recommend listening to it as a whole anyway. He (the interviewer) calms down a bit I think and many times he shuts up and let Assange talk in length.

@leftykiller8344 Жыл бұрын

I made it almost 55 minutes before I had to stop. Wasn’t a fan of the interviewer, but more of not a fan of the hypocrisy in Mr. Assange’s statements. He had some good points, but also half-truths and at least one blatant lie. I honestly feel like much of what he did was put out red herrings to make himself and his organization look better. I eventually went back and watched the rest of the interview, but again was not too impressed. Seemed more like a Comic Con fan panel at the end with the audience questions. I think it could’ve been a better interview if the person running it had challenged Mr. Assange. Instead, he stayed away from anything Mr. Assange showed no interest in addressing, and let clear double standards slip.

@ChristinaChrisR Жыл бұрын

@@leftykiller8344 I agree with that Edit: with challenging him, and comic con panel…🤦🏻‍♀️

@Infinitiivinen Жыл бұрын

@@leftykiller8344 Yes. Assange is marketing his enterprise, sounds to me.

@panushjo Жыл бұрын

Of course you should publish interviews of other people. Your brand is free speech, non bomb throwing, and not assuming the worst intentions of people

@mjc1970 Жыл бұрын

I do find people pick what is real and what is not - bitcoin or citizen... etc. This conversation was a bit dull I admit. Not for me. I do events, and it was definitely an event style show... from a bunker

@leftykiller8344 Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the post, but I honestly just had to stop at the 55:41 mark. I take your stance on the idea that I’m unsure as to if what he does is a net good or not, but he’s a bit full of himself. To say that nothing that his organization has ever posted has ever caused harm to anybody is willful ignorance at best, and a blatant lie at the worst. The man is very good at PR, I’ll give him that; and I don’t think he has a clear agenda other than freedom of information, so I don’t view him as sinister, just careless, at least some of the time. He’s got a crazy double standards too. At one point he said that journalists have abused the right to not share sources for the reasons of potential harm to the sources, but when extremely gently probed about his sources, he shut down the questioning for the same reason. He also criticized the government for holding back information under the guise that “information is dangerous.” He then talked about how information most of the time isn’t dangerous, and that is true. Most information is harmless in and of itself. But later he talked about how over 90% of a document’s information, that his company leaked, wasn’t actually released because it was deemed dangerous. I’m not denying that there is some corruption in most governments. All governments are made of people, and all people are flawed and subject to corruption. So it only comes to reason that governments would be flawed and subject to corruption. But when it comes to what information is and isn’t dangerous, who is he to decide. I lean more to trust a democratic republic such as the US to deem that, than an individual person or small corporation. At least the US government has whistleblowering procedures and policies in place, and it’s up to the people working there to decide if they need to do that or not. This guy has zero oversight, and I don’t think that’s a good thing. Again though, I don’t think he’s sinister, just careless and too deep in in his own Kool-Aid.

@mindofwaves4470 Жыл бұрын

If you do decide to publish third party content, I would appreciate a disclaimer like this one for each video, I would say not to let them span a greater ratio than your original content, as well as add them to a separate playlist. Of course these are just suggestions, thanks for your consideration.

@cl6964 Жыл бұрын

That was the jist...but did they kill people

@cycloneaction2211 Жыл бұрын

When is the Clare Lehman interview you teased. Asking "what should i ask Clare". Since all the responses were about her response to vaccine mandates guessing you or her scrapped it. Hope im wrong.

@bric6454 Жыл бұрын

For the world, net good. But i certainly agree stuff like SS #s and afghan informant names should be redacted.

@hywelgriffiths5747 Жыл бұрын

Wikileaks were working with the US govt as well as the New York Times and the Guardian to redact all the names prior to that release. The problem was that a Guardian journalist, Luke Harding, released the password to the encrypted files, so making the information public. Only then did wikileaks release the information, so that the informants could know what information about them was now public.

@RKupyr Жыл бұрын

To respond to your request: I, too, come here for your personal interview style. That being said, I welcome you also presenting other material that you consider worthwhile. We are free to choose which of your episodes to watch.

@fraserbuffini6137 Жыл бұрын

Honest feedback: I would not like more content like this. I listen to your stuff for your interviews and the thinking you inject in your conversations. Good to experiment with this format during a quiet holiday period though 😉

@essiotll Жыл бұрын

Big get ☺️

@colinreese Жыл бұрын

Well, you definitely have an FBI file now, Coleman

@CZAR- Жыл бұрын

You better believe!!! He is most definitely on their radar now!!!

@incollectio Жыл бұрын

Indeed, he certainly is on our... *krhm* I mean, on their radar. 🕵️

@chickenfishhybrid44 Жыл бұрын

Lmao, doubt

@elizarhad1 Жыл бұрын

We may never know the truth until there is a trial. But the fact that the US still has not charged him with a crime, speaks volumes. I think they want to make an example of him.

@orysk3318 Жыл бұрын

This is just not true, he is charged with 18 counts of espionage.

@elizarhad1 Жыл бұрын

@@orysk3318 By whom?

@davidlamb7524 Жыл бұрын

The trial they have in mind is behind closed doors and we will only be told what the US government want us to hear.

@wiseone1013 Жыл бұрын

Assange is a smart guy with an important purpose. The interviewer was somewhat annoying.

@googlemechuck4217 Жыл бұрын

Did not find this to be of much importance

@remodernist Жыл бұрын

Happy for you to post other content you find relevant, but for me this interviewer was awful. Glib, snarky, disrespectful and playing to the audience. Couldn’t last more than 20 minutes

@DavesGuitarPlanet Жыл бұрын

Watched 27 min. of this so far and may watch more later. Of course I'd heard of him and some of the things he and his org have done, but haven't dove into details much. Basically I agree with Coleman's original disclaimer about being agnostic, since there have been pros and cons to Julian's actions. Concerning airing third party content: While interesting, I'd prefer to view things with or done by Coleman. One way around this might be for CH to examine parts of footage like this, interspersing his own take on it. I come here to see/hear the brilliant CH and his usually wonderful guests. IMHO

@babyyoda3118 Жыл бұрын

Thank you!! To show this is definitly a net good as wikikleaks is in my mind. Your critizism is perfectly valid and just plain evil! Still net good!👍

@buildmotosykletist1987 Жыл бұрын

Ask his victims and there are many.

@saganworshipper6062 Жыл бұрын

#DroneAssange Russian asset.

@Clearingthepathtoascend Жыл бұрын

I've come to learn that as soon as I hear an Australian accent(in media) I will be grossly underwhelmed by what is being said behind that accent.

@daveferranda9379 Жыл бұрын

I hear what you are saying. Australian doesnt have the need for deep level of thinking in the public sphere as we/they dont have the issues most western countries face. Desh is mostly a comedic style of journalist, yes, a poor choice for such an important figure.

@randygault4564 Жыл бұрын

Coleman, your own content is better. Just get the audio levels matched.

@rosies3622 Жыл бұрын

This interviewer is so bad. Is that why he is not named?

@daveferranda9379 Жыл бұрын

Read the description

@rosies3622 Жыл бұрын

@@daveferranda9379 I did, and I cannot see any name other than Desh Amila, who is the filmmaker and not the interviewer; unless he has changed his voice and facial features (he has a beard in this interview, made 2021). kzfaq.info/get/bejne/op6qepeUspnVg5s.html&ab_channel=MegynKelly

@rinackes 7 ай бұрын

Free Julia Assange

@treeliniusmaximus8412 Жыл бұрын

What's the harm? Exposing US war crimes? God forbid people know what was being done in their name. He should be out of prison. The US and UK's continued persecution of this man is a disgrace.

@buildmotosykletist1987 Жыл бұрын

Assange has taken the life savings of an elderly couple leaving them destitute. Much worse than that, he is responsible for the deaths of dozens of people. Two of many alleged crimes. He should have a life sentence.

@treeliniusmaximus8412 Жыл бұрын

@@buildmotosykletist1987 As to the former (if its true): So that justifies his incarceration for decades? Extradition to a country that has planned to kill him? Proportionality, please. And for the latter: Show me any evidence that this is true.

@buildmotosykletist1987 Жыл бұрын

@@treeliniusmaximus8412 : How many deaths has he caused ??? One dozen ? Two dozen ? Three dozen ? Hundreds ? Who knows but there are a large number. Think about that. Think about the old couple who lost their retirement and their kids inheritance ! ! !

@treeliniusmaximus8412 Жыл бұрын

@@buildmotosykletist1987 So, no evidence then. Just a repetition of the talking points made by the US and countries that Assange outed.

@leftykiller8344 Жыл бұрын

I’m not against him exposing anything bad that people have done, it’s commendable. It doesn’t excuse the deaths that he has caused. You can’t give out information about active military or intelligence operations without causing loss of life and earning yourself an espionage charge. Mr. Assange and his organization are claiming total innocence, which I treat the same as any organization making such a claim (false in the majority of cases). He could have done good, while still having done bad. Also, fun fact: The US has whistleblower policies in place, so shame on people in the mid and lower ends of the intelligence community not using them when the US government is abusing its’ power.

@wikkidperson Жыл бұрын

Assange aside, Amila is a bad interviewer. Interruptive, failed attempts at humour and generally distracting/unsettling.

@maxungar516 Жыл бұрын

the idea that "truth is always good" is false. the value of everything is dependent on the context in which it arises. there are plenty of instances where truthfulness is a social detriment. even in many instances where the immediate effects of truth are good, people reliably forget to take second-(and further)order effects into account. for example, the ability to keep trade secrets have negative consequences, in that a society is deprived of the widespread adoption of a valuable technology. however, they provide incentive to invest the resources necessary to obtain the technology at hand. the net social good of any idea depends on the specific balance in which its policy is implemented, taking all relevant factors into account.

@shpensive Жыл бұрын

I don't think truthfulness is equivalent to transparency. One can never lie and yet retain secrets. I don't know of any case where lying is a social benefit, but keeping a secret may be beneficial to avoid being taken advantage of (e.g. guard your PIN and vulnerabilities).

@leftykiller8344 Жыл бұрын

Agreed. A bit of an extreme example of truthfulness not been good would be people hiding Jews from the Nazis. The people who hid the Jewish people and lied about it actually did good in that, and I don’t think many people would say that their lie was a bad thing. Giving out secrets can be bad as well, even enough unclassified information can end up adding up to classified info, or at least reveal how info was gathered in the first place. The later could end up costing lives directly if it’s HUMINT (human intelligence). In the case of SIGINT (signal intelligence) it will cost time, money, loss of new intel, and loss of life or mission when proper intel isn’t available. I’m not against whistleblowing, but it needs to be done responsibly, so that innocent people don’t get hurt.

@maxungar516 Жыл бұрын

@@shpensive lying and opaqueness can be of social benefit in cases where information can be used to cause harm or prevent wellbeing. bostrom's black ball, or concealing catastrophic technological capacities, or strategic avenues for destructive developments. not merely on the civilizational scale, but on local scales. when you know someone has poor or impaired judgment, or incomplete information, lying about opportunities available to them, like booze, funds, internet access (any variation on a "ring of power" scenario). lying about your, a loved one's, a friend's lifestyle because it doesn't cohere with common social acceptance. lying about opportunities to prevent a tragedy of the commons. i'm sure there are many more examples.

@davidlamb7524 Жыл бұрын

It seems though that the secrets Wikileaks revealed have all been for the general public good. Theoretically you are probably right in my view though I think Assange has a strong argument too. It would be great if he was free and could be live on Coleman and other shows to freely debate the points you raise and others. The questions are, as far as I can see ; has he acted in good faith, has he acted altruistically, have his actions been for the good, is he being unfairly and illegally detained (and put through mental torture and extreme physical discomfort) ? I think the answer to all the above is yes. I think his actions have been heroic and he should be exonerated and freed immediately. I think he should actually be honoured for services to freedom of the press and taking on the most powerful organisation in the world. I realise some people would see this as a step too far but I don't think there is a truly central position on this.

@joedavis4150 Жыл бұрын

.. at some point, please talk about the great harm that initiating force is doing to our nation.

@Maserragnarook Жыл бұрын

Coleman, You are agnostic about Assange??? Grow a set... if you don't know enough to take a position don't post shit and then cop-out. Nothing is "Black & White" (Pun intended)... but, shit or get off the pot.

@EBurstyn Жыл бұрын

Meh. Not feeling the interviewer.

@trevorjames6185 Жыл бұрын

The concept of the whistleblower seems a net positive to me. I'm not sure Assange and WikiLeaks qualifies. They acted more like opposition research in 2016 than a whistleblower. That's how I see it anyway.

@buildmotosykletist1987 Жыл бұрын

Julian Assange saw nothing wrong with with leaving Australia with the life savings of an elderly couple. Julian is the worst type of Narcissist.

@natalianunez1385 Жыл бұрын

What elderly couple?

@buildmotosykletist1987 Жыл бұрын

@@natalianunez1385 : Search the article published when he ran away from Australia to avoid prosecution.

@luckystarship2275 Жыл бұрын

I haven't watched this yet, but could someone who has tell me if Assange addresses the sexual assault allegations made by two women - that he secretly took his condom off during sex, (aka 'stealthing')?

@davidlamb7524 Жыл бұрын

Yes. All charges were dismissed. The women admitted being pressurised into making false statements. But no, he didn't go into details !

@rinackes 7 ай бұрын

Why did you take it easy with some of them questions you're asking