Thanks for having me Patrick! 🙏

Great video! Thanks a lot for publishing it . Also great collaboration with 2 great martial artists and critical thinkers

Wow it was impossible both of you not to meet, very empowering moment, sending you my love.

TMs won't go away. It has its deep roots: history, myth, legends, inheritance, records, and popularity. However, it's prosperity and sustainability lies in its adaptability through renovation and inclusiveness. It means, don't try to win its sustainability on heavy-contact ring fighting efficiency as its offsprings (MMA, boxing, Sanda, kickboxing) have a better hands. TM should try to get its feasibility of its own: community need of light-contact hand-to-hand combat/gaming as this provides enough body excercise, social interaction and entertainment while keeping personal injury at minimum.

As long as strip malls have all over the US have MA schools catering to hoards of soccer moms and their kids, TMA will flourish.

The way Rokas can keep a critical thinking by seeking what hasn't been looked over or... thought over, is a very good way (if not the best way) to get down at the very bottom of any misconception or possible false belief. On a personal note, i think that you guys are both right. Rokas about TMAs not going totally instinct but shrinking to a certain minimum for people seeking tradition. On the other hand, Patrick about the fact that we cannot deny the *science of hand to hand combat* vs TMAs for their sake of tradition. People mostly seek martial arts for self confidence AND actual useful self defence. I also love the honesty talk about what TMA schools shouldn't claim to teach if they truly don't at the end of the day. If you can't apply it... don't teach it. Thanks for the awesome interview. 🙏

Great discussion!!! I think a huge problem within the martial arts community is not understanding the context in which the systems come from. As a practitioner and instructor of koryu systems, I teach kata and emphasize randori heavily. In doing so I feel it comes full circle. Meaning that back when these arts were developed it was brutally functional. So I personally don’t believe that TMA’s will ever go extinct however I do believe alot of the training methods will change depending on what the art is trying to convey. The only real difference between modern systems and traditional systems is the training methodology but to be honest I personally believe the way modern arts train is how traditional arts were originally trained.

Oh wow, 2 best martial arts channels do a collaboration? This is really interesting, the topic as well

I don’t think tma’s will dissapear so easily. Just look at traditions like koryu kenjutsu. The people who practice this obviously are not in it because they plan to duel with katanas or spears, but people still find value in it. Although historical european martial arts are a reinvented tradition, weapons based martial arts in asia still have plenty of following. And things like traditional chinese archery are actually exploding in popularity.

I trained Tang Soo Do for 3 years in high school, and now I have 3 years of Tae Kwon Do, recently earned my 1st Dan black belt, and I am 55 years old. So I guess I come from a traditional Korean martial arts background. I get a lot out of my Tae Kwon Do practice, including a fair measure of fitness, well being, and a sense of community. I don't think my TKD school is a martial arts cult. My teacher does not promise his students super human powers if they train hard enough, nor does he ask people to do ridiculous or dangerous techniques, or make anyone eat spiders. He doesn't make unreasonable demands on our time beyond coming to class regularly. And he is realistic about what to expect. He tells students fitness is important. he tells us not to think just because you can hold your own in TKD fighting with TKD rules that you can go out on the street and beat a street fighter. He actually tells people they should walk away from a fight if they can. And he doesn't promise that his training alone will prepare his students to step into the ring to do MMA. I can see some of your criticism and we should should all take it to heart. Here is the problems with TKD as I see it . 1. TKD rules say no punches to the head. This is a problem if you want an effective striking system, and to be able to defend against street or bar fights, where the most typical move by untrained fighters is a hook or haymaker to the head. My teacher tries to deal with this by focusing on protecting the head by keeping the guard up. Still, since we don't really practice realistically, it is more a hope that the habit of keeping the left hand up protecting the head will actually work when put to the test. Is it good enough? I don't know. Better than nothing, but not as effective as training realistically. On the other hand, at age 55, I don't know how many blows I want to take to the head at my age. 2. The reliance on forms (or Poomsae, or Kata) for example, though I actually like it and see some value in preserving the tradition. But just forms practice will make you good at forms, not necessarily fighting. Probably the biggest issue with forms is, in my school, it is an important part of advancement is learning those forms. So I can see the criticism that a person who can fight but can't do forms will not advance, whereas a person who is great at forms but isn't a great fighter can. That is probably the biggest criticism I can see. In arts like BJJ, this is not possible, since belt advancements are based on fighting which involves application, not just knowledge of the curicullum. 3. lining up based on belt rank. And, that belt rank is a snap shot in time. And it isn't based on fighting ability, and does not differentiate children from adults. I do, frankly think it a bit ridiculous when, say an 8 or 10 year old child lines up at the head of a class of adults just because he or she has been practicing since he or she was 5 years old. Now, this situation is usually temporary since that same child will either continue to progress and at age 15 or 16 really will deserve his or her place at the front of the class, or he or she will leave. But still, you see it all the time, children lining up at the head of the class based on rank. Or the common case of an adult who achieved a rank, say 1st Dan, then took a couple of years off and comes back. I actually think making that person line up at the head of the class makes some of these people walk away rather than stick with it since they know they are either extremely rusty, out of shape, or both and shouldn't be standing ahead of someone who has been training, 3 or 4 days a week, every week for the last 2 or 3 years while the higher rank person has been doing nothing. That being said, this third point is fixable IMO. As for children, don't give children advanced ranks like black belts. Give them a different belt color then when they can hang with the adults black belts in sparring, award the black belt then and only then. And as for the second, if a person comes back and obviously needs practice before being capable of leading a class, have that person line up at the back of the class until he or she shows the proficiency he or she previously earned. 4. Not nearly enough close range combat, and no grappling at all. This is probably the most serious issue with TKD as a complete martial art. That said, I don't think everything we do in Tae Kwon Do is bullshit. You see TKD techniques in MMA, and many professional fighters come from a TKD background, so there is that.

Great respect to the years you spend in that japan art ..

Traditional MA are based on, and revolve around WEAPONS more than they do hand to hand weapons fist fighting. It's real weapons with grappling added in

If there is one thing that traditional martial arts have that mma does not, it is an emphasis on proper form. It's all about adapting the style to the situation that counts.

Yes your right they wiil never disappear in japan put England usa yes put like you guys and respect both you and your views

Very interesting talk!

I think traditional martial arts should stop worshipping tradition and embrace functionality. As Rokas said they will converge in some of the things that MMA are doing but it still had some particularities of the style. If they don't do that they are doomed to extinction.

The martial arts we consider traditional werent always traditional. I've heard about for example bjj guys not being as open to the self defence aspects as they used to be and that sport bjj is having more influence. Eventually schools will realize they can get more members by easing up on belt standards and then youre on your way to where traditional martial arts today are.

This was an interesting discussion and one I can relate to. I come from a karate background. I’ll always remember the first few times I joined Thai boxing classes and realized it was superior in many ways. My stance meant I kept getting kicked in the back of the lead knee. It’s hard to accept you’ve sunk years of practice in a suboptimal art. Looking at the history of karate however, it’s interesting to see it wasn’t always as “narrow”. Early karate included throws and locks. Sometimes I therefore wonder if we confuse “traditional” martial arts with martial arts codified and mass distributed in the 19th and 20th c but inspired by older (and perhaps more effective) traditions. A lot of karate’s nuance got lost when it was adopted and simplified by the Japanese government to be taught in school and the military.

1:00:10 "MMA shows what works" NO ! MMA shows what works under MMA ring conditions/rules. Not what works when fighting from a car seat, nor in a crowded area, nor at the beach, nor a slippery surface like showers at the beach, nor from a 3 story walk way, nor fighting 3 or 4 traditional kung fu clownish asian men. Their silk shirts with tigers, dragons, and storks were kinda cool.

Its not a factor of "which martial art is the best" but what martial art works the best for you. Its the practitioner

Remember not everybody wants to get in the cage or roll about on the floor it's just not their thing.

Please make next tutorial on jeet kune do stances I know it is not included in your curriculm but please please please make next tutorial on jkd stances

No they will never go extinct. Traditional schools appeal to husbands and wives and children. They mix of a modicum of fighting which appeals to the husbands, and dancing moves which appeal to the wives. Add in the discipline and excitement to appeal to the kids. Parents will gladly pay thousands of dollar$$$ a year to reap these benefits, and for someone to baby sit and partially raise their kids.

I have to say half and half. its good to perserve traditions with good qualities but the toxic ones wont be preserved because people will not uphold a immoral morality they have disdain for. that is how that tradition will eventually die. there will be people who embrace the immoral so it will be a hard thing to kill with time. it's about the same as racism, and many people will have an experience to reproduce it eventually, so even if its killed, it is possible to be reborn. I do think however that traditional martial arts can be effective martial arts. it's not all aikido or kungfu, but Aikido and Kungfu. there are to many different styles and masters. the ability to be flexible on tradition is key. have equal tactics with the traditions. my karate teacher kept karate tradition in her effective training regiment but also improved upon it and taught more than just karate but what also works to incorporate it into our regiment. infact karate stays karate even tho you add to it as that was what created it in the first place. kungfu is created from animals and it will keep evolving as far as the martial art itself. the traditions will vary from one teacher to the other but I say the flexible traditional style will still be there. it will be improved upon per teacher and thus I feel like eventually it will correct itself. but I will say this.... as far as religion goes tho everyone has thier own beleifs.... what would you say if I were to say you were ridiculous for not believing in it ? that would make you very aggravated because that would be me calling you crazy based on my own personal opinion or belief based on biased which ever religion or beleif is biased in a good way. also you are not seeing the religion from inside. if you dont try something fully with an open mind you will not know the truth. have you read the bible all the way through? studied it ? tried what It asks? if not then you have no reason to say otherwise or say it should be thrown away other than you personally beleive it to be lies or it is disrespectful. God is always there, fact, jesus was real, fact. heres the thing, if you are convinced that God doesnt exist and beleive in proof entirely then how can you choose for yourself for what is real or not? if you beleive an illusionist is killing someone by evidence your seeing then you will beleive they are, wether they are is dependent on all aspects. the human eye can be tricked thus if you beleive only on evidence presented you've taken it at face value, then you have tricked yourself into beleif. how can you say your choice is wrong unless you beleive it is so? you cannot because absolute truth cannot be attained by human beings as it cannot be percieved as it is without bias trully.... thus all truth is choice by the person. if someone believes the earth is flat, then let them beleive it. there are reasons for thier choice that you probably havnt experienced as you are not them. you have had a totally different life. if God stood infront of you, what would you beleive then? would it remain a disbeleif, beleif, or undecided but curious? dilusion can be put simply as also a choice to beleive something "is" a certain way as much as its counter "absolute proof" also cannot be perceived without bias. I use critical thinking and know that God is real by using it. you do not have to prove a personal beleif, because mine are based on experience and hard work. I seeked him out, can you say the same ? the only time a person can truly lie is to personally believe it as such. if they see it as truth then it is a truth. it is only a lie if percieved as such. if it wasnt we would not have people falsely accused -.-... very agitated by the lack of respect for what others beleive on both sides of the fence unfortunalty, but this is also my opinion on yours. if a rag is perceived as yellow and someone sees it as white.... should I say it is yellow and argue and call them crazy based on some self believed base human instinct, or try to understand how it could be and ask them true questions and want to see the same thing? my opinion could be aikido is better than any other martial art. you would say "in your opinion not" but you would be dodging the part where you truly beleive it is not to seem more considerate, while believing the whole time they are crazy people. thus your not being truly open minded. what if NASA lied and it really is flat? not saying it is because I've read the passage in the bible that makes people beleive that and mathematically speaking the 4 corners of the world would mean it could also be a 3d square if you were to look at it as just one object rather than the 4 squares in a cube it would intersect vertices in the full sphere .... and they would intersect. you literally could put 4 corners on the earth by putting the square inside a globe. thus I dont beleive it but it does make sense how they could think that way. i dont say they are crazy because what if I'm wrong? what if my ability to find the truth is biased and i find the wrong thing. one thing that God has always done himself is tell me things to prove himself and I have seen things no one will ever believe. I wont try to prove it but if you are ever interested then I would say seek him out for him to prove himself to you before you just throw the whole ideal away as if it was false because you said so. the only way to find any proof for yourself is faith. all forms of science are found through first having that faith. im sure people have found things they cant prove. definilty wouldnt find it uncommon. i am a very critical thinker and I study things to a fault to be sure of myself. it's the one fact I can truly say 100% I know is right Rokas, God is very real, I have seen to much and experienced personally to much. beleiveing in a lie is to see it as a lie but continuing to support it and believing in it even tho you dont is truly believing in a lie. I have never really stopped since my first breath even tho I pressure tested it. people will beleive based on thier own ideas and experiences or influences on thier life. beleif is a personal choice..... I feel a little offended or disrespected for the way it was expressed but understanding of your reasoning of why. people make the religion very undesirable for people so experiences can deter it. its face value can make its image as corrupt . the fact there is a God out there could be seen as ridiculous but so could the thought of little balls floating around microscopically without mouths or certain organs could also be seen the same way lol (atoms, or cells). doubt is a good thing to reinforce someones belief or re-evaluate the situation ...my road with God however was farther from that image. specially since I perceived it as true at 2 to 3 years old and every time I have tried to lose faith and have tried to doubt, it was strengthened by him and no one else . he has brought me through impossible situation through impossible solutions. had it been anyone else I would not beleive it. he has taught me since birth and I've talked with him since birth. also we dont live for God to do it for heaven or to keep from hell, we do it because we love God. if they are doing for god to go heaven, they probably will never make it lol. the whole message was unclear to people. the real question is do you want a life or afterlife without him or with him? if you love somone you will choose them and try to do what you can to please them and to support them and vice versa. if your after just the sex it's an empty relationship.... if your after money it also is. if your just after being loved, it's not gonna work. if you do it because you love them and no other reason then the rewards will come second in importance.....hence heaven and hell being money and sex in that metaphor. both are a push towards it yet shouldnt be the reason ;). they are simply a byproduct of your relationship. so tell me how you are smart again? scientists actully test thier faiths... have you? very disrespectful to Christians in general, but I do understand because you do not beleive. but I would say to take your own advice and practice what you preached on dilusion and truth. I agreed with most of it. but calling us crazy for what we believed is definitly an insult. I hope I've influenced you positively.

The 2 dominate styles of martial arts in MMA are Muay Thai and BJJ...2 traditional martial arts

MMA is a mixed art, but without TMA your mixture die