I personally love how shrouded in mystery the Blackwater incident was. I think it adds almost a level of depth to the characters involved that you never truly know how they acted during the heist, or if they were even there

It would make a neat DLC to have it start a week before the massacre and everytime you complete a mission it has a time transition to the next day similar to the chapter changes but instead it says "6 days before Blackwater , 5 days before Blackwater" etc and it would have all this tense build up and context clues and would end after the group is scattered. Maybe even have it end with Macs death. You just have it cut to a scene of him being tortured and then Milton pulls the trigger and it cut 4:38 s to black.

Whether we see it or not I reckon it would’ve looked like the other 20 massacres that occurred during rdr2.

Not gonna lie as much as I’d love to see it I’d rather not. Just seeing how traumatized and shaken the gang is by that event is enough for me. The entire mystery element of it makes it feel so much more haunting. Not every event has to be shown to the audience to have impact behind it.

Red dead redemption 3 will be about mac, since he’s the most talked about member that wasn’t directly shown.Furthermore, he also had a redemption at the end of his story sacrificing himself for the wellbeing of the gang, similar to what Arthur did for john

I’d rather keep the mystery if I’m being honest, that’s one of the reasons why Rockstar and Rdr1/Rdr2 is so great cause without them the games wouldn’t have been as interesting and as successful as it is, so hopefully we’ll never actually get to see it as much as I want to (just my opinion)

if ever did red dead redemption 3, i like imagine it be another prequel, at the begining stages of the dutch gang, but after while it lead to time skip to very incident, which was begining of the end of dutch gang.

I’ve never believed in the Mandela Effect, although I will go to my grave with the vivid memory of seeing a RDR2 preorder bonus of getting to play the Blackwater mission, I even remember thinking “That’s stupid, they will eventually let everybody play that mission for free”. I even remember the in-game picture of the mission advertisement showing the Main Street of Blackwater

If RDR3 were ever to be announced I feel like it'd make sense to play as Davey Callander, the gang member that dies in Chapter 1 because of the black water massacre. Dutch or Hosea wouldn't make sense as the characters don't die to redeem themselves in RDR2. Perhaps Davey Callander could give us a chance to see what actually happened. But that's just me.

I think rdr3 should follow Mac Callender showing things like how Micah joined the gang and have his final mission as the Blackwater massacre and showing his “philosophy” speech to Milton Maybe to join the games together have Arthur as the playable character as they escape to the mountains and burying Jenny Kirk and stuff like that

RDR1: The Calamity and Aftermath of the gangs downfall RDR2: Witnessing the downfall RDR3: Early humble beginnings and robin hood themed game (Headcanon)

I believe that since there isn’t much to still be done in a red dead REDEMPTION game they could do a red dead damnation or something that follows Dutch in the years between rdr2 and rdr1 spiraling further into madness with missions that are “ghosts of the past” including the black water robbery

MAC CALLANDER

Thru Theory alone, I reckon rdr3, if there is one, will be about the events not too long before RDR2 and I feel we may be playing as Mac Callender. If this is the case then the blackwater massacre will be the final mission in normal gameplay. Maybe Mac did not die and we play as him in the end game too? Maybe Milton just lied to Arthur about killing Mac to rile them up and scare them? Maybe Milton killed who he THOUGHT was Mac? it was show in rdr2 that Milton dont really know who is who in the gang aside from Dutch and Arthur.

I'd prefer if Red Dead 3 was the story of Jack OR the story of another gang.

personally if they made a Red Dead 3 i want it to be a new cast of characters, but with the Van Der Linde gang being a force within the game either opposed to the player or just coinciding events. Like maybe at a point in the game we go to Blackwater for a deal and all we see is the gang members attempting to flee with an army of Pinkertons following them into the hills, with dead bodies everywhere and buildings on fire, and a sinking steam ship.

I think if we see the blackwater massacar we will finally know if duch was insane from the start or wether he was true to the principles he always spouted to the rest of the gang

Too be honest: the "The Blackwater Massacre would have to be bigger, than anything in RDR2" point, is just an Open World Game Desing Flaw, that has to be ignored. You just need insane shootouts, to propose a challenge to the player. Thus these shootouts always get insanely huge, when in reality, you should only kill 4 guys. But that wouldn't be fun. Let me explain that by the size of the O'Driscall Gang: You can shoot up a dozen minor or major camps of them, without them ever losing any strength. They can throw waves of their minions at your camp, and still don't miss a beat. But that is the only way, they can be a threath to the player. That is, why the Massacre should stay a mystery: There is no way, you can make it, as bad at as it should be, without afterwards asking: Why could Arthur still set foot into any region in RDR2?

i think it could work if it was like the gta san andreas introduction movie. basically they made a short movie to show the events that led up to the gta san andreas story. and even showed the green sabre drive by that killed carls mom and was the event that caused cj to go back to los santos. i think rockstar could have done something similar. a 30 minute movie showing the gang prepare and take part in the heist. and then end with them packing up and fleeing to ambarino.

My ideal RDR3 is that it shows the gangs beginnings and ends at Blackwater and for the epilogue goes right to Jack as an adult like he was in RDR1 and maybe have something for him like John in RDR2 epilogue

I love how mysterious it was, because with the disastrous heist in Saint Denis that had everyone massacring the police force, it just makes you wonder how BAD it goes for the people in Blackwater.

If we ever get a rdr3 & get a mission focusing blackwater? Then *We need to play as the person who was there & haven't had the perspective of!* that means no John as a playable character ANYWHERE! Now narrative speaking? I'd prefer playing as Javier in the main plot & Hosea in the epilogue. But the game itself would need to focus on HOW the gang got founded, meeting each character that was in the gang BEFORE rdr 1 & 2. (aka no Sadie, keirn, or Jack)

I just hope red dead 3 isn’t tied to the gang cuz I think they’re story is done

I always thought the blackwater massacre and and the couple weeks/months beforehand would have been the ideal DLC fo before for RDR2 or it can be explored in like an HBO series for Red Dead redemption

"Hosea is the oldest in the camp" *uncle has left the chat*

I would love if rdr3 would be us playing as a young pinkerton agent set to track down the vanderlind gang sometime before blackwater. i think it would be super interesting to see the vanderlind gang from their perspective, and they might have information about dutch and hosea that the gang dosent know, and that could really show the darker sides of the gang and that the time before blackwater never was as rosey at its sometimes described.

Gavin was sighted in Blackwater at the time of the Blackwater massacre

RDR3 will be Sadie Adler finds time traveling dudes portal and is transported to the future to help Aloy fight Nemesis.

I want them to add a DLC that is only for the time the gang spent in blackwater

*The only way they can narrate what happened visibly on the blackwater massacar is if they start it off as you playing as a random civilian to then get suprised by the vanderlinde gang on the ferry seeing how it plays out since Arthur, and Hosea wasn't there....in a dlc or in another game as a intro...*

Rd3 should allow players to control charles and sadie....Charles moves to canada, starts a family, and becomes the leader of a tribe. A gang of hunters similar to the Skinner brothers attack his settlement, and his wife and child are kidnapped, forcing him to track them down and save them. Meanwhile, in South America, Sadie runs a gold mining and prospecting business and gets entangled win a beef with a colombian crime lord... Something along those lines

I think that's what the next Red Dead Redemption will be how the game is formed up to what happened in Blackwater, with you playing a different character each chapter starting with a young Hosea than a young Dutch and etcetera.

A story of javier before he joined the gang would be a good premise for a third game

There has to be some link between the games I honestly think if someone went to Australia, sadie or charles for example, and we play as some random guy with a majority new story and idea but we meet them as that link between old and New Red dead it could be a brilliant way to open up the series I agree they really need to move the majority of the focus off of dutch and the gang although maybe there could be some parts of the game that take us to América and dutch is this shadowy evil in the background that we hear of but don't see much of Also you mentioned the strange man, they really need have something about him however small

Maybe it doesn’t have to be in the next game, but it would be cool if rockstar put out a little movie of it. Like a 10-15 minute cutscene type of animation that just tells the story, so we know what happened but we don’t need to dwell on it for a whole game. That will never happen, but I can dream

Maybe the very end of RDR3 could be that heist, and we can finally be apart of it

I actually have a feeling that they will show it in RDR3, and part of the reason I believe that is because a lot of the people that worked on RDR1 and 2, wont be there in say 2026 when they start working on the game (Dan Houser being one of them). So they wont really understand that an event like the Blackwater massacre might be best to not show, but they know that if they can put it in the trailers, RDR3 will get a lot of hype. Just my 2 cents

One question I always have is if we ever have this final story mission where would that put player next in game because usually with open world you still can explore do what ever you want the game doesn’t end but if that’s the case it would overlap with the red dead 2 story because it takes place directly after the events of black water so I wondering what would the post game content of this possible game look like

Well Cynic, taking into consideration what people call a "massacre" now, ya know two hang nails a shoe lace comes untied and Grandma gets ran over by a rain deer and what would be viewed as a massacre in 1899, when people saw children die at birth so you had a LOT more kids to run farms etc, I think Dutch and company damn near wiped out the town of Blackwater. Very much like the town of Tull in Stephen Kings Dark Tower series Book One titled "The Gunslinger" . These people were USED to seeing death back then ...it would take a hell of a mess for them to react like that...wagons full of people of all ages, races, religions...just almost a wipe out

Bill, during the bank robbery in Saint Dennis said that was worst than Blackwater In RDR3 i want to see a really old west story, with Landon Rickets or Boy Calloway, that would be hillarious

Here first my bro love the vids

Dutches bounty found at Michas camp by strawberry says he's worth $1000.

I wonder if that hostage scene with Dutch and John, in RDR1 is almost how the Blackwater massacre, specifically the Heidi McCort part went. There may be no Micah, but it might be a somewhat accurate retelling of the events.

Please can someone tell me what the song is that starts at 5:56

Going back to the size of the blackwater shootout, it's a little inconsistent. If i remember correctly fewer than 50 people were killed in the gunfight, somewhere around 47, I believe. Throughout both RDR games we have much larger shootouts than that but those events don't get the same kind of attention as Blackwater. That always bothered me a little.

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens from the perspective of the Calender Boys.

They won't show it but we do know for a fact it was all performance captured and recorded. It has been stated multiple times by the actors that in the cut prologue the whole heist was meant to play out. They said they performance captured and recorded cutscenes and everything. People have asked them to say what happened but they can't say a thing. All of these things are in Rockstar vaults somewhere, and the full story of what happened is there never to be released.

As bill would say “ o it’s just one of them things”

Black water heist would’ve been a great online mission at the end of the story

Rdr3 play as Mac and die at the end of the game in traditional red dead fashion

At the end of whatever Red Dead they gonna bring out, they need to show us a cutscene of the blackwater massacare just for closure lol

I really wanna see what happened. Maybe we could play as Mac or Jenny before they joined the gang. We all know how they died but they would give us a new perspective

How can you say that? Rdr3 with a young Arthur and the gangs beginnings would definitely be a game I would want to play!!! I would also like to play a game with 1920 and 30s cars in it so maybe we get lucky and Rockstar does both eventually!

If we do get a game that covers what happened in Blackwater, then I hope its about another gang that was also there. Maybe we play as a member who has their own redemption arc, that ends up in Blackwater on the day of the massacre and meets their end at that time.

i highly doubt this would ever happen BUT if there were ever a red dead redemption movie. A movie of the blackwater massacre would be perfect

I think it would be nice to see a movie of what happened that could be considered loosely canon.

I knew this is unrelated but what backgroud music did you use at 2:53 in this video, also nice video dude

Before rdr2 they were a gang helping good people out, I think they could do a really good little more positive story then have a prologue with everything turning sideways building up to blackwater massacre setting up for rdr2

Honestly I think it's one of those things that is as legendary as it is among fans because of its mystery. With that in mind I think it works better shrouded in that mystery. We don't n we to see it we have heard enough to know it was a very traumatic event for anyone present for it. All though I do think there's a chance they could incorporate it into the online story if or when they continue that which they totally could and I believe they will. I've never bought into that RIP RDRO crybaby hysteria. They have all the money in the world and Red Dead Online sfan baee is still going strong. There's nothing stopping them from returning to it if they really want to.

Arthur as a kid up to the Blackwater Massacre.

During the bank robbery in Saint Denis I think it’s Micah that says “this is worse than blackwater!” during the shootout. This always stood out to me because it either puts in perspective how the massacre was or Micah was just being dramatic in comparing the two events.

When it comes to RDR3, R* is never going to have us play as a character where we already know their ending, and every single member of the gangs end is either visually shown to us or specifically told to us through dialogue. That only leaves us with Jack. Jack's story whether it be enlisting in the military or through some other plot point needs to eventually achieve his "Redemption" so that everything the gang sacrificed (specifically John and Arthur) wasn't for absolutely nothing. I know another prequal would be nice and can fill in a lot of holes but it serves the story far less then showing us Jack trying to live on for John and Arthur. An ending to John/Arthur/Jack's story which can only assume would be 20ish years in the making based off the release date of RDR1 is THE correct way to end the Van Der Linde gang story. The way we are left with Jack at the end of RDR1 (Gunslinger like his father and Arthur) spits on everything they went through to make sure he survived and lived a better life. I know based off these first two games we think that every Red Dead game has to end in utter tragedy, but it doesn't. Jack's Redemption gives every character the happy ending they deserved and that we as viewers deserve after leaving the first two games absolutely destroyed with grief.

My opinion to the video title. We will see what happens in black water in the end of the rdr3 when it comes out, bcause the future of rdr is endet when arthur and jonh died. Unless jack is the maincaracter in the future games, but my suspission is that the story goes backwards so as i earlyer sayed, i will think if and when the rdr3 comes out, rdr3 story will end blackwater massacer and to the rdr2 story´s start. Btw sorry for bad eng, not my first language.

in rdr3 we should play as mac with young arthur and Jhon and the last mission is the blackwater masacre

red dead descension - Dutches story and the game ends with black water massacre for rdr3

At this point if RDR3 doesn’t end with the blackwater massacre then what is even the point of a third game???

I think the Blackwater Massacre is much like the Dwemer disappearing in the Elder Scrolls. You'll always see details but you won't learn the full truth.

what is the sad music you are using around 3:11?

I think we forget that we technically see the Massacre shown four times in the Valentine, Rhodes, St. Dennis, and Lakay. All four each have some part of what led to the massacre: the gang arrives in Blackwater and makes too much noise altering the Pinkertons who set an ambush for the robbery.

I wouldnt mind playing as dutch and the ending of the 3rd game would be the blackwater massacre. Clearly dutch was a good man in his gangs eyes and they respected him so it would be cool to see how and why that respect really formed until the first crack happens with the whole blackwater thing. Although i feel like the actual meaning behind a game like this would t tie into the whole redemption thing because dutch never has a redemption and certainly didnt have anything like that in blackwater so i 100% dont think theyd go that route but it would still be cool.

I think that the gangs story came to a close after John died. As much as I’d like to see the events that led up to the Blackwater massacre, I think the story wouldn’t feel fulfilling even if we played as a new character. I would still like to continue the story of Jack Marston and what happens to him once he left home after Abigail died. Yeah it would be during the time of the First World War when Jack is out on his own. But think about it, Jack was raised by a gang of thieves and killers and then transitioned to be a ranchers son during RDR 1, and witnessing his fathers death, then killed the man who killed his father. After that, we don’t know anything else. After all Jack is the last surving member of the Van Der Linde gang, although he was just a boy, he was still a member. I’d like to see Jack enlisting in the Army and meeting new characters that were present during the ferry raid. But during that time they were jacks age in RDR 2. Let’s say Heidi McCourt who Dutch shot, had a son who was about Jacks age and saw his mother brutally murdered. Then years later Jack hears stories about the gang he was in when he was a boy. I mean that would be very interesting and we can still play as a character we’re familiar with but that’s just my opinion

Blackwater explanation would make a really good DLC. Not it's own game.

We definitely should never see or know what happens.

I think it'd make a lot of sense if RDR3 let us play as *Micah.* I think that'd be a really interesting perspective.

Hopefully not because it be cool to focus on Jack and the timline be in the 1920s with the automobile industry

Been wanting a Prologue: Blackwater with Mac as the protagonist. Doesn’t look like it’s going to happen. If it’s the final mission of RDR3, how is post game free roaming going to work?

I doubt Rockstar will show the entire event, I could see them having a couple of flashbacks to key points in the robbery maybe if in RDR 3 they have it be a child of one of the Dutch Gang. I think to me they kind of have to use someone who has some connection to Dutch and his crew RDR isn't like GTA where every game has had a different location and different protagonist who are loosely, if at all connected.

My guess: The Blackwater robbery was meant to fail; for Dutch & Mica’s benefit. Possible Dutch himself was the rat; hell-bent on chaos.

I hope it's never a mission. Because it's a mission we would have to loose

Sadie and charles would be my bet for possible protagonist of a new red dead

It's probably the same if not worse than the saint denis bank robbery.

Should been a DLC

We will never get to see RDR3, if we did it would probably be about Jack Marston and the era he lives in and that is far away from the wild west. Perhaps it could follow a young Dutch and the way he forms the gang but I don't see that happening. If a game ever will be made, it'll probably be a story parallel to what we have seen so far.

Rockstar will most likely leave the Blackwater massacre to the imagination of the players.

Kind of thought they were going to release it as a dlc or something

I think they should do a movie about it, or a series. Like WoW or arcane. Would be cool

I honestly believe it will go back further in history and you end up playing as Arther's father until he somehow dies because it is made out that he was also an outlaw And then you end up playing as a young Arther in the last few missions in the epilogue leading up towards the blackwater heist.... 👍👍👍 I swear to fuck that's what would make sense

easy answer: *no* If it was a DLC for Red Dead Online however potentially?

Well, rdr 2 is before rdr 1 so maybe rdr 3 will show us the massacre and end when gang runs to the mountains.

I don't really want it explicitly laid out, we as the player experience it as Arthur did, and he will never have every question answered about Blackwater

I’m here to tell you that the massacre will be a final mission in RDR3 😎! Maybe Dutch getting everyone together and raising Arthur and jack while giving us more of their background stories through crimes or whatever they had going on in those times !

Rdr3 will be another pre squeal and you'll play as young Dutch or hosa, the people asking for completely new characters and a new story need to go play gta, rdr is a story and it's not done yet, we literally know nothing of the Origins of the gang and you think Rockstar is rlly gonna just leave all that to mystery lol... going even further back in time would give them unlimited territory to Introduce new characters to characters we love, everyone keeps saying the gangs story is finished and your right it is finished but we didnt see how it started

I dont think we will ever get answers for all questions, because then people would've stopped talking about the game so much.

RDR3 better continue with Jack. And if you want to show members from the gang, he gets help from Charles and Sadie

No we shouldn't ambiguity is what drives the story forward

i really dont wanna be in a gang , if they do another game,

The games were released over eight years apart, but I think the story telling differing has less to do with that than other factors.

RDR3 won't make sense. But a back story for Arthur probably titled as "Morgan" or "Arthur" will. Then the game will end with the black water ferry job. Rockstar will make money with that game specially Arthur now is being crowned as the greatest rockstar protagonist of all time.

would be interesting to see the next game end with the blackwater job being botched.

I don't think Rockstar will ever make another game after gta6 at this point. It's clear all they care about is live service and Microtransactions. If Red Dead 3 actually happens, it will probably be Pay-to-reload