Server rack batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/server-rack-lifepo4.html Grade A Raw LiFePO4 Cell Distributors: www.mobile-solarpower.com/raw-lifepo4-deals-page.html *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509 *My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):* 12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com

This is probably not a new suggestion, but I would love to see you look at how to do a whole house backup system using server rack batteries. Call it a Tesla Wall alternative. With server rack batteries getting better and cheaper, I have to imagine that this can become more practical, even as a grid tied (whole house UPS) kind of way.

The server rack batteries are an easier option and they look nice but I'm not giving up on building my own battery yet. I built one 2 years ago and really enjoyed it. Of course, I couldn't have done that without Will's videos so many thanks for that. I can build a 48v battery using brand new Eve 280ah cells ($135 each shipped from Georgia (from the battery store). After shipping and a BMS I'm coming in very close to $2,660 for a 14kwh battery. A new EG4 5kwh battery is $1419 ($1536 including shipping). I'm not getting the pretty package or the convenience but since this equipment lives in my basement and I don't have to look at it I really don't care. I'm getting much more bang for my buck building my own. The savings I get from doing this allows me to purchase and build a larger battery bank. I'd rather have the additional storage instead of the pretty package. For $1,124 more + my time I get almost 3X the amount of storage.

DIY lithium batteries have a HUGE stigma in the RV community. Every single person I've told about my DIY battery has responded negatively. But the flexibility of individual cells let me fit 700 ah @ 12v of lithium in the space of 2 lead acid batteries.

Thanks for all of the video support over the past few years. I'd really appreciate a follow-up video showing the full potential of the Electrodacus SBMS0. It's such a powerful tool for the diy'er. Thanks again Will, you were the first person to begin showing me how to build a system 3 years ago. Your video on 24v systems enticed me to take that route and I'm grateful for all that you do man, thanks again.

The main reason sales have dropped is the cost involved with buying raw cells. I would love to build a battery pack when the price drops.

I recently brought 12 280ah cells and cost wise it was massively cheaper. Using them to charge the batteries when electric is cheap at night and discharge during the day when electricity is 4x more expensive. No issues so far and already making substantial savings on my electricity bill. Tempted to add another 12 in parallel in the near future.

$889 for the cells, there's your answer. When you did the review on the $450 280Ah cells that made plenty of sense to DIY, but at twice that it's probably a pass for most folks when for not that much more you can get a complete solution. One the shipping issues clear up and someone can start importing them by the container load and get that $/kWh back down for the raw cells then it will be an option.

Checking in after a long time. I am so impressed how far you have come in the past 7 years or so... so happy to see you grow and be successful.

They need to drop the price on raw cells and they would get more sales, i'd love to do a DIY but the price on assembled batteries with a warranty wins out except for doctor prepare they suck i know lol.

Totally agree. I'm planning a large system and the server rack style is the answer. I also just built a 12v 280ah kit from Sun Fun Kits for my camper. Best form factor for my needs

What I love about your channel is your Disclosure and Brutal Honesty, even if it goes against your previous reviews.

My system built with your help is going on it's 3rd year now. Your videos and book made it happen. Thanks!

I purchase 4 eve cells and I'm not particularly blown away with them... They cannot handle cold at all. Being in rural Canada, this is a must.

I just completed an order for 132 these same 280 AH EVE cells (received them 2 days ago via container ship from China). I paid a total of $15,759.48 including shipping. Using Will’s math that calculates to $0.1333 per watt (15759.48 / 3.2x280x132 = 0.133248). I can build great batteries for that per watt price for cells, far less expensively than a prebuilt rack mount battery, and still have enough cash left over to replace them myself and still come out ahead compared to a “warranty” from a manufacturer. Just saying…

I just got your book in the mail and planning on a solar system for a bug out/camping rig. You my friend need to do more of these books. Just gold

I think you hit the nail on the head at the end. I, too, have become an "accidental welder" just working with my lead-acid car batteries. Doesn't really faze me, but I could see that experience being terrifying to a new DIYer. That said, the only case I might do a raw cell system is when it needs to be large, high-uptime, and I want to be able to quickly swap cells. Even then, the server rack battery kinda makes sense, just need to bypass the unit being removed (or wire everything to common rails, so the missing cell isn't immediately noticed).

People are not buying through Chinese suppliers because of getting ripped off .. I was, I ordered 16 new grade A 320ah cells, and received I am assuming 8 grade b with data all over the sun and another 8 that were obviously repackaged used and damaged cellls which I cannot use all of then because of damaged threads. This was one of the suppliers recommended on your forum. Aliexpress backed me up with the fact that the cells that were delivered were not what I ordered, and would refund my money if I returned the product, but I would need to pay for shipping which because of being lifepo4 cells the shipping was as much as the original cost of the batteries. That was as much support from aliexpress I received…

Could you recommend a video where you built a battery or system for RV's? I know a lot of us would be very interested.

I work in the lithium battery industry and I have handled many warranty cases of pre-built 12V LFP batteries. One of the most common warranty claims is the battery can’t be charged to a high voltage. The reason behind is there is one bad cell out of balance, thus triggers BMS protection much sooner. Vice versa on discharge. So the actual usable capacity is much less or down to zero! And another common problem is the BMS board is damaged, even and all the cells are good, the whole battery is a trash. It’s very unfortunate! And also people don’t know how to use it probably, and they choose wrong chargers meant for lead acid batteries all the time which can be very harmful to LFP.. If I have to choose between raw cells and pre-built, I would refer build my own so I know how everything works together and how to fix it in long term. And another question to think about is will those companies exist in 5 years, 10 years when you need a warranty? I'd prefer to know the technology well and be independent.

I was just talking about this with a friend. The industry sure has changed since I built my battery just two years ago! Might be time to upgrade. Thanks for always keeping it real Will !

Will, I have been following batteries and cells for a year. It is so much easier and cheaper to buy a ready built battery, it doesn’t make economic sense to build your own. 100 AH, 12 volt batteries are right at $300 each. You can’t buy the part for that price. And that is from Amazon. Server batteries are not much more than the 12 volt, 100 AH ready made batteries. It wasn’t that long ago, those same batteries were $1,000 each. Can’t wait to see what 2022 brings.

I have lifepo4 cells in my drill battery pack from Dewalt that I bought in 2006. They still work. One day I'll do a capacity test to see what's left in them.... A few weeks later and I did the capacity check and the packs have about 60-65 watt hours capacity left in them. They began with 75 watt hours 16 years ago. Not bad for their age and their early abuse being used as e-bike batteries.

I'm glad you're still covering this, I really needed this opportunity to make my own battery, so thanks.

We really need someone to make a video on how to make them from scratch and price out all the parts for entry level, intermediate power and the bigger stuff. I'm sure your sales will blow up 10 fold (no pun intended)!!

6:09 I feel like you have your answer right there. I worked in car audio for years building competition vehicles with dozens of batteries, football fields of wire length, etc. So to me, I don't see any issues at all as long as you work smart and safely... But I can absolutely see why people would lean towards just buying a finished product and not taking risks in exchange for relatively minimal savings. Plus, a lot of KZfaqrs are talking waaaay over the head of the average person with a budding interest and no experience. Yes, you guys are smart, but anyone looking to learn with limited time on their hands is going to be overwhelmed.

I construct the old Edison cell from scratch with modern materials. I have never been disappointed by this cell's cost - about $30 each at 1.5 V each. They are very simple and inexpensive to build and maintain. I used the design from the Hal Lindsay reprint of Edison's battery book, use a solar panel I built to charge these batteries. I have one original Edison cell that is untouched from the time of manufacture - over 100 years old and it still works at the original specifications. You can keep your extremely expensive LiPo cells!

I'm new to this topic and you're killing it. Thank you for the high value content.

Just subscribed because of your clear enunciation and descriptions, to the point, ie, not long winded or repetitive conversation, thanks and keep up the good work.

Actually I pretty much agree with everything you say. I'm one of those that "plays" with the cells and packs, but mainly for curiosity and education.

Will, I have an idea for a video. I own a 5th Wheel Travel Trailer. One reason I might build a battery is to optimize space. I'd love to see how to utilize raw cells for non rectangular footprints. L-Shape, T-Shape, U-Shape, flat and long, overhead, upside down, 3-4 batteries a few feet apart in different compartments, etc. You know, non conventional, weird stuff. 😜

Very thankful to have this confirmed by someone who has a clue. The server batteries seem like a super obvious choice but that is so counterintuitive I was having a hard time trusting my conclusions and thought there must be something I didn't understand.

I got some cheap imported Christmas lights with LiFe batteries in it when I moved into my first house. It's been in my back porch summer and winter for like... 20 years now, and still works. I've never had a battery of any sort last that long before let alone a rechargeable one.

$889 for 4 of them is extremely high. You can get new grade A 280Ah EVE LF280K cells from a US warehouse for $588 including shipping. That's $0.164 per Wh - cheaper than your grade B cells from Ali... You can get the LF304 EVE cells for $158/cell including shipping - that's $0.162 per Wh. You can also pick them up at a Houston, Texas warehouse if you prefer. Maybe that's why those suppliers see a drop in sales, since they have major competition.

Space constraints would be a good reason why people would use the DIY route instead of the server rack route, especially for the RV community. With the cost of battleborne batteries, its cost prohibitive to buy them in large enough capacity for most people but these still provide a good budget option for someone who is willing to buy and build these into the spaces required for an RV/van build.

I really, really love electrical DIY projects. I love the idea of putting my own battery together from scratch. But, if you plan on adding actual value to your house, you need to design a system that a novice buyer can take ownership of, and have some company come over and maintain for them. No outside vendor is going to support my frankenbattery.

One advantage of using raw cells is lower total weight and unit weight. The rack batteries include the weight of the steel case and come as one unit ~100 pounds for 100Ah cells. Shipping, receiving, installing a 100 lb device is difficult. Doable in the garage of a house, but very difficult in an RV or off-grid cabin with only foot access. Using raw cells, you could get 200Ah cells that are ~8 lbs each. It would take more trips to assemble the battery, but a person can lift 8 lbs 15 times easily.

I liked building my own battery with the raw cells. It gave me a better understanding of how they work. It also gave me a better feel towards my system, like when i look at it, I feel proud of what I've done. I do agree with your statement that for just few cents/kwh, getting the server rack is worth it for less hassle.

Will - Here’s a video idea: Server rack for marine environment. A pile of sailboats use solar.

I really like the BLS cells from Aliexpres, they do have an American distributor so shipping is only a few days. I'm glad a bought them and built my own 280amp Hr 48v battery and I am currently running the overkill 48v 100 amp BMS and the performance is freeking awesome. I am running with 6 340w solar panels, and a Outback radian system with a 4000w inverter with a outback 60 charge controller! I use it to run our off grid cabin.

I've been working on my SLA DIY battery setup and wanted to migrate to lithium but I waited to see the price go down. I really am grateful to you for learning more about it. I heard LifePo4s have issues compared to Li-Ion or even the new salt ones.

Will, you kind of answered your own question. Those of us who are not hobbiests or extreme DIYers want a battery we can use to do something else. Even Walmart is now selling Renogy batteries (yes, I know, not the best) fairly inexpensively. For some of my needs, I'd need to build a massive Lithium battery to get the 300A discharge I need for winching (10-15 minutes). I can get a single FLA 100AH to do that for $100.

I still have raw cells sitting on my bench, top balanced and waiting to be assembled into a battery. This is a hobby, I have very limited time to devote to it. Server rack batteries weren't available when I started my journey, but if I had gone that route and put the time I spent top balancing and such into the rest of my system, my system would have been functional for months now. If I started again this moment, not a chance I'd do raw cells. Not a chance.

Will, I love your videos. I think you hit the nail on the head, your timing couldn't be better. I think you're also hit the nail on the head this time. Many people are getting a little weary of trying to make their own from scratch systems. The initial throng of people that were into diy, have made them and now it's the mom-and-pop six-pack people wanting to save some money and have protection against weather problems. So it's better to buy the rack ready-made packs and avoid all the extra work. The few extra dollars the rr's cost now isn't a big difference, and the convenience makes it worthwhile... We Love you videos keep up the good work please and by all means I'll keep watching him

The cost difference just isn’t as big as it used to be, so it makes more sense to buy something with a warranty

I think the main reason people hate to build own batteries is the missing battery cases. Yes you can use 4 rod and 2 plate to make compression, but it is not pretty. But if you buy a server rack case with the cells then you only assemble it like an Ikea furniture. Much more easy. Seplos sells I think batteries like this. Also Amy started to sell battery cases to EVE-CATL cells to. Maybe this is the way and this should be shown to the community.

I just ordered from a high rated Aliexpress store (on the site since 2015.) 320 Ah cells, that they claim are brand new grade A. Price worked out 12 cents per watt hour. If you are building a big system, that saves a lot. I will have 32 cells, arranged as a 48 volt 640 Ah battery. Price for the raw cells will be a bit under $4,000 for ~ 32 kWh of storage. It would cost about $8700 for 6 of 5.1 kWh server rack batteries. I willing to do a lot of labor and and buy a good BMS and a high power DC breaker for the $4,700 difference. I don't need the communications features, and this way 1 BMS and 1 breaker is all I need. Each server rack battery would duplicate those. If I was building a smaller system, where one of the server racks was all I needed, I'd probably go that route.

2 months ago I raced an EVSR (electric vehicle sports racer) in the NASA 25 Hours of Thunderhill, and I built 10 battery packs for the car for that race (each pack is built with 50 CALB 180s. One of the packs was a backup spare, just in case I needed it, and for reasons I won’t go into now, I’ve disassembled that pack and I’m going to repurpose some of the cells to build a 48v pack for my RV, and add solar to the RV at the same time. I just discovered this channel, looks like there will be some interesting and useful videos for me to watch as I prepare my build.

Video suggestion. Instead of making a video showing what the cheapest batteries are you do one showing people how to look for the cheapest batteries. That way it's forever useful.

I would much rather have the raw cells, due to the fact that I can swap them out easily if need be. Plus then I don’t have to get into a warranty fight. Modular builds are better in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind seeing a video of your build ideas for containing a large pack made with these cells that looks good, is safe from touching dangers and can compete with server racks on space efficiency. I have seen some in totes and others with wood and allthread doing a bit of compression. All are effective, but just not nice to look at nor store efficiently. Server rack batteries suck that you kinda should buy a server rack for them. A good middle ground would be really interesting.

I REALLY would like to see you short one of the Eve batteries out so we could all see the ending result! Thanks for all the great vids!

I'm a beginner, and am interested in learning how to build and maintain my own system. The server racks sound great, but i want a system that is as simple as possible - something I can troubleshoot and repair myself. I don't want all the connectivity features offered in server racks. Fancy displays communicating with an app, etc, etc, are all points of failure that i won't be able to easily diagnose. For me, simplicity = value. Thanks for your channel. I've learned / am learning a lot!

Although I totally trust the server rack batteries, having watched enough of your videos tearing open packs makes me feel more comfortable building the pack myself. That way the cable supplier is accountable for "real" cables (Accurately labeled), battery distributor accountable for the cells, etc. I might be overly paranoid, but counterfeit/knockoff chips end up in products all the time, would hate for that one time to be in a sealed battery case I bought for convenience. (Again, not saying any of the server rack batteries discussed here are dangerous)

It's probably different prices depending on where you are but in Western Australia it's actually cheaper to buy a ready made battery. Plus I can buy the ready made locally

Sooooo Grateful for your videos. What a champ! Be safe. Happy trails 🐾🎶

Really like your channel, a lot of useful information! The cost of the batteries combined with all the other costs to build even a small battery pack with an inverter isn’t alot cheaper than buying a pre made unit like the eco flow or yeti. Especially if you gave tools to buy means you’re actually paying more and with the associated costs it’s not profitable enough to build and sell these

Hi Will, been watching you for a long time, since the old Toyota days lol. I would love to see you do some electric motorcycle conversions using these type of cells on existing ICE bikes. Something that could be used for daily transportation and/or on a receiver hitch rack for an RV. Parameters would be being able to do at least 65-70 mph and have a 100 mile range. Thanks for the great videos and all the information you provide.

Hey Will, totally agree, if I were to build a new system with currenty prices I would definitely go for a server-rack one. Built my system two years ago out of EVE 280 cells and totally happy with it, but the struggly I went through, just because I overtorqued and thereby ripped out one thread, was already not worth it. One idea you could eventually do is a DIY "winter-pack", since I'm from the european alps and my batteries are located in a way where I can't guarantee to always stay > 0°C I went to build my own battery heating system as a base for the battery. Two 15 W heating pads thermalpasted to a metal plate to spread the heat (electrically insulated on the top), temperature controlled relays from aliexpress and some insulation around the batteries sides and top. Needs really little power to keep the batteries at around 4-5 °C and by only charging with solar I guess that should be enough to keep them comfortable. Just thought it might be an idea for a DIY build since there's little heated packs out there and if you already build the heating you might just build the whole battery.

I just bought 8 raw cells! I’m sooo grateful for your videos!!

Just finishing my home. Hot Springs, AR. I have two sets running my 3000sq ft home. 560AH I bought for 3800.00 shipped. Took 5 weeks to get them. My house is a brand new design and uses water based hydronic heating and then a water based air conditioner that uses 1700 watts for 2 tons. (each unit is 830 watts for 1 ton super high efficiency units) and that cold water is dumped into a 300gallon super insulated tank that feeds Chiltrex Hydronic A/C units throughout the house. They are CXI ceiling mounts. I designed the ac controller myself instead of using Chiltrix chillers and controller. My house is low voltage on all wiring and has a few AIMS 3000 watt pure sine units to power 110v devices like fridge, microwave, washer, dryer and of course an xbox,etc.... Has has insulated slab, ICF walls(R32) and solid roof system with no Air gap and R48 insulation plus a few other layers with1/2 inch foil foam board. TPO sealed roof with no air movement. Spent 8 years designing and almost done. Living it it for 6 months with tons of kitchen and outside work but hey, it's working and my family and friends are amazed... no electric bill and right now since we have a wood boiler feeding the insulated tank and that feeding the floor system, it uses 160 watts for the two pumps and that heats the whole house.... super efficient. I have 16 thermocouples installed in the floor and sometime this year will have a temp floor map for viewing in a web interface along with all the other info I'm collecting. Solar is 16 330watt panels feeding three parallel Morningstar controllers. Adding a wind generator sometime soon also.... I watched about every video you've made and it's definitely helped so thanks for all the info. One day maybe I'll post some details but for now, I still, got a lot of work to do. (Plus a full time job,,lol) Thanks again!

Will, I would buy raw cells if I could get a nice case for them at a good price. Even ABS cases for 4x280Ah batteries are so expensive!. If I could get a nice server rack case for 8x280Ah batteries (24V) I would totally buy more raw cells.

Will, can you PLEEEASE make a video showing how many server rack batteries would be needed for the typical house as well as the inverter in a grid-tie system. =) There are so many scammers out there trying to sell these kinds of systems for $30,000+ and they don’t work well.

TLDW: No one buys them, because they are overpriced.

You're pretty spot on. In short, unless a person is a hobbyist or DIYer in other areas, they want plug-and-play capability. Convenience has a price. Pre-built and server rack batteries give you that convenience along with being plug and play. Mostly. At least with the battery packs, they take the guesswork out of it. You only need to worry about getting a good charging setup and quality inverters. Which if you're wanting to get something up and running quickly, that's the way to go. Such as a battery backup for a sump, or running a sump purely on battery. I'm taking both routes. I have 4x320Ah cells I ordered last year that I still haven't done anything with that I'll use to make a 12V pack. Combine that with a good inverter and it'll make a good travel power source or battery backup for something in the house. And I'm considering ordering more cells as well so I can have additional backup battery power for anything in the house in case I need to cut breakers to work on anything. (Such as when I have a transfer switch installed.) But for a battery backup for the house or at least the HVAC system? I'm leaning toward server rack batteries.

A factor for me was the amp hours, the prebuilts are stuck on the 280 AH cells. I mean I get it, they are tried and tested, but I have grade A 304 AH cells from a Chinese supplier and they are great, plus the price difference makes sense.

I was planning to build my own out of raw cells, but since the server racks are getting cheap, I think I'll either use one directly or break it apart to fit into the space I want. It wouldn't surprise me if the racks are cheaper than the raw batteries after including the cost of everything else the rack comes with.

As a ITguy, I agree with you, server batteries are the preferred choice, good to know

Really enjoying all the clear information you provide, I’m learning so much so fast...... I really need to learn about AGS (Automatic Generator Starter). I’m building two large Overlanding Rigs, with massive roof mounted 250 watt solar panels, in a three section folding design. I’m planning on going with the 6,000 watt inverter and the phosphate lithium batteries you suggested. I’m having difficulty finding a 6,000 or 8,000 watt generator with electric start for a reasonable price, but have learned you can “parallel” two 3,000 watt generators together. That is good, because the 3,000 watt generators are quieter, and less expensive. I see the inverter you suggested has an automatic generator start “port”.....that’s important to me, now I just need to find which AGS is the best for a set up like yours. Thanks for all the good advice

Have you ever thought about building a UPS (basically using batteries, an inverter, and a charge controller run off of the house current)? Buying a commercial one that would survive a few hour outage and run a computer or fridge costs HUGE amounts of money. They're ripping people off!

My son recently bought some raw cells so we can re-power our vintage GE electric tractor. The net result should be close to double the runtime while reducing the tractor's weight by about 100 pounds.

Video ideas. (1) Test cheap "BMS" sold at Aliexpress or similar stores. (2) Find the best "budget" "BMS" sold at Aliexpress or similar stores (3) Test new Generation of grid tie inverters that can charge batteries in its system and can keep powering from its stores energy during the nigjt.

I ordered a small set Just to experiment with and in only a week there already here. I will go back in you video history & check a few things.

Now that its all in format and already assembled, either the price goes down or they sit on the shelf. The market should and most likely will, self-adjust to this. The inability to easily dismantle and repair the server rack batteries, makes them FAR LESS desirable for me personally. Its just more "use it and dispose of it" type gear. Destined to never be properly recycled, and for the lithium within to likely end up in my tap water after slowly leaching into the ground at the local landfill. The complete cycle life of what I am buying, has started to factor into my purchasing choices over the past 5-ish years. Lithium is 100x more finite than gas/oil was. It needs to be treated more like the precious commodity that it is. As many manufacturers fail to consider. If it has lithium in it, and is difficult to recycle, I am way less likely to buy it or even consider it. If its not repair and service friendly, or uses proprietary electronics for BMS / Charge / Balance, its relatively useless if anything goes wrong. Everyone I have seen with a "Solar Generator" has it apart in the garage because it failed after 1-3 years, and parts are basically impossible to get. Easier, isn't always "Better" Does it make it more available to a wider audience... Absolutely. Should anyone without a proper education in Lithium and Battery maintenance be owning these things? Flat out NO. Far too dangerous. Far too much energy potential. And the risk of serious injury, fire, or death is just too high to sell this to anyone disinterested in understanding it and properly maintaining it. Its an explosive fireball waiting to happen, and set and setting matter a LOT. Excellent video, good topic, great points. That's my 2 cents :-)

We would all be interested in your thoughts on a local microgrid system. Say, on a 40 acre farm. 1/4 mile by 1/4 mile square. Distributed generation, transmission (AC/DC), storage, infrastructure etc

One year later and the points brought up in this video are even more true. I have procrastinated long enough before buying my raw cells that now I can't justify not getting the plug and play warrantied option of a server rack battery. Now the only thing stopping me is that the other equipment I want for my system only comes in 12v versions. Looking ay you "Blue Box" people. Make that flagship hybrid 50A inverter in a 48 volt option and they would fly off the shelves. Conversely, if the "power wall" type inverters could offer some of the hybrid options available in the blue box, I would consider changing my shopping list.

Thanks, I don't have my own home yet but when I do I will be prepared.

you hit the nail straight on the head. I was going to build my own for the last year + but have seen the prices of the factory completed products at close to the same or lower. I am a DIY type on a lot of items; but not a lot of incentive anymore.

All good points . Server rack seems like a no brainer.

Thanks for the reminder, yes I'm getting around to it & now another 2 old batteries died I'll build a few now.

Just watched another video and it was mentioned that reduction in the float voltage was considered because if it is set to an upper limit, many inverters will trip on over voltage. So the float time is cut back and slightly lowered to bring the cell up around 9% instead of to or close to 100%.

One should still invest the time into building their own battery, if possible. It helps understanding. Then re-invest the saved money. My 0,02!

As someone's from the DIYEV community I would really like to know the short term (30 second and 3 minute) discharge C ratings for these aluminum case batteries. I did my first build with 144 volts of lead 12 years ago and would like to revive the project with lithium.

I recently built a 27kW battery (2X 280Ah, 48V) and two BMS to run them for $5300 total. $0.196/Wh. EVE Grade A cells, Overkill Solar BMSs. To duplicate this with these server rack batteries would cost $7500 for 500Ah, or almost $9000 for 600Ah. Still quite a bit more money than DIY. I also used a lot less space than 5 or 6 of these server rack cases take up. I'm still firmly in the DIY camp, but glad to see prices coming down anyway.

I dig the server racks. I would love to set up like a 30KWH system with some panels at my house.

Would love to see the largest 48v eve 280ah raw cell battery scaled up 4 deep for a whole house off grid application.. the kw total.. load test duration n ev charging potential.

I have the raw eve cells for my RV, and I think it definitely has its place there for a few reasons. 1. I didn’t see a 12v model of the server rack options. 2. I’m not opposed to 24v but Victron doesn’t, yet, make a multiplus II 24v model for the U.S. market. I do think the server rack options are great though. If I were to start now I would 100% consider it if there were a 12v model. Maybe one of the companies will sell me just the server rack enclosure and I can use my own eve cells :) sure no warranty but I would consider it for a solid case!

I was really hoping to see a direct cost comparison. Adding in the cost of BMS, wiring, breaker etc when comparing to the server batteries, has to break even with server racks. Maybe not compared to some people's "deals", but there is certainly a very tight cost margin. While the server rack system is as "bolt-on" as you can get, there is always the intangible benefits to building something completely custom for your needs. I've done a DIY cell 100AH battery just because I wanted to make one for camping needs, but I'd be hard pressed to try and DIY a large 24 or 48v system. Keep up the great content!!

I'd like to see a video where you build a portable watering system for livestock or fire supression out of either the rack system or the individual cells. Or a video on livestock electric fencing being charged through a battery system that is powered by renewable. Thanks for the cool vids!

I agree the server rack battery makes more sense than raw cells. Though I wonder, with all of these batteries and cells, how do you know what grade of cell you are actually getting?

The battery distributer needs to team up with the manufacturers of the rack battery cases and components, and make DIY kits.

I too have watched your eve cell videos and all others...you have enciuraged me to continue with my own diy hybrid, grid interactive system using an all in one inverter not requiring a transformer ...i am a elect engr of 40 years familiar with industial battery demand...$ and tech saveyness are main factors... from college days a 48v system is optimun to meet typucal home energy storage...i went with a 48v server battery with 10 yr warranty ...dont want to have to continually be perforfirming bat maintenance..one thing lacking even on 48v server bats is how to integrate communication to a different inverter than for example the growatt...the comm interface needs to be configurable with any inverter with rs485...canbus such as to mpp solar all in one...i am not sold on growatt...by the way you have done an amazing job making discovery in solar cells diy and bat testing and inverter options..i will grow my 48v server bat system to about 60 tp 70 kwhr as my daily usage averages 35 to 50 kwhr in summer months for my 1500 sq ft home

When I looked at your video the first time I agreed with your point. I still agree with the point. I may take exception to your example. You seem to be comparing the cost of cells which were 240 amp hours and a new battery with 100 Amp hours. I've looked at 100 Amp hour battery and can find one you have tested for $350. To $400.00. the 200 hundred amp hour batteries are closer to 700 to 900. I have seen the 240 AH before. I just got solar installed on my home and was taken to the cleaners. I would love a good battery bank to build and install that I would not need to exchange a small child for. 😀

You're on the mark with your thoughts. The savings of a DIY build versus a turnkey battery with warranty have declined to the point of not being worthwhile to go the DIY route. I still constantly compare the costs for my needs, but at this time, I'm sticking with the ready to use products.

I built a 30 KW battery using Eve 304 cells for a total price of just slightly over $5,000 counting everything all shipping all hardware, BMS's... To do that with the cheapest server rack batteries would cost twice that much. Even though they have gotten cheaper they still just don't seem like a good deal to me.

I took your advice Will and bought four 280 ah cells from Docan's US stock. It didn't take long to get here. I also have an Overkill BMS on the way. I got so called B grade cells. I've not done a capacity test on them yet. Physically they look good. I have not idea why they are called B grade. I've charged them up to 3.33 per cell. First I made a 12 volt pack and charged it to 14.6. As soon as the voltage hit 14.6 I turned the charger off. The resting voltage is 3.33. I bought a Dr Meter power supply so I can top balance. Cheers !

I'd LOVE to see an update to this in 2023. Distributers seem almost DESPERATE to sell these raw cells. I've been toying with the idea of building a 1kA@24v bank of 24 cells and I was quoted $2000 USD DELIVERED. And that's for brand new Grade A 280Ah cells, from a seller I've dealt with before.

I think a lot of the reason that cells went up is due to shipping cost crazyness that happened last year, I got some 230 Amp hour cells for 130$ from a local supplyer and it was cheaper then if I ordered them myself because he ordered in bulk, but they went up in price not down I think mostly do to freight rates and short term demand peak. I also think people like handling movable batteries, a 16 cell 250 pound monster is a lot more menicing then a server rack battery

I think there is a 'wife' factor at play as well. Server rack batteries are contained and thus nicer to look at and could be considered safer. It all depends on the install technique of the raw cells and the diligence and attention to detail of the DIY install. If your wife knows you are sloppy, she is going to ok the server racks before raw cells. It also seems there aren't agreed upon and nice looking raw cell enclosures that look the part. Let's face it, the server racks are just more sexy. Plus, you get that engineering for practically free vs. raw cells. I built a small raw cell pack, and I am proud of that, but I supplemented it with some prebuilts as well. The amount of time and money I spent on the raw cells in crimpers, lugs, wire, charger for top balancing, waiting forever for top balancing, etc, etc. vs the 5 minutes it took to add the prebuilts was making me question that effort.

i consider EVE RAW cell than a server rack because raw cell save me alot if money. i DIY from raw cell 51.2v 560ah included 2 unit 150a daly bms only cost me about $3000+ (price Aug 2020). i've been running it 24/7 almost 18 months and nothing problem.. until today only circle 330circle life (17month).. hopefully my battery can run last longer.. i learnt alot from your videos, your channel taught me and save my money alot... for me now, Raw cell i can handle it safe.