These are simply the layers of steel folded in when forged. Those lines are very common on older Winchesters. Those lines don't cross the screws because the screw holes were made after the receivers were forged. They are not scratches, they are not defects.

Thanks for sharing. Winchester’s are something special.

Thanks for sharing;that is what I love about these old guns.The stories and tales their scratches and markings could tell us if they could talk.

In the late 70s/early 80s I was Deputy Warden of Oklahoma State Prison. We had dozens of those rifles, all branded OSP on the stock. No saddle rings because guards were always messing with their guns, I had a couple shoot their chair out from under themselves. The lines were assumed to be part of the manufacturing process and caused no concern. I agree with you that the state buys low bid so they may have seconds. When I took over in 1977 OSP’s armory was a hodge-podge of weapons from several Thompson’s, to Winchester 12 gas, 30-30s, 45s, 38s, 22s, from every manufacture in the US. After a time I was able to secure standardized issues from S&W and Mossberg

I own one of these that belong to my father and it sold at surplus and was from Alcatraz Prison.

After sighting in at 60 feet, I could easily cover 5 shots with a nickel kzfaq.infoUgkxQt2uORDRfFOVSrO4idv4B90ThT6EOnEL ! Truly a pleasure to shoot! Scope was easy to adjust for eye relief. Only problem the varmints must have seen it delivered lol!Update: So impressed with shot groups at 30 yards I purchased a Hammers 3×9 with adjustable Objective scope! Now a true nail driver!

Those lines are from the forging process over time it has shown the lines I'm a Master moulder core maker & blacksmith

Over 20 years ago I was at a gun show in San Jose CA. A dealer there had 7 Model 94 Winchesters and engraved on the receiver of each one was Tennessee State Dept Of Corrections. I bought the nicest one for $500 and still have it. It's immaculate and looks like it was hardly ever used. I have not shot it. The finish is black not blue and the serial number shows it was made in 1957.

Thanks again Evan. Keep 'em coming.

Very interesting and just plain neat! Thank you for the video and I’m now a new subscriber.

30-30 would have been quite a thump as you were climbing the fence!

I own and have shot a few of the old time cartridges in the Model 1894. This past fall I killed a whitetail buck with a Model 1894 Winchester in .32-40, which was the other blackpowder round when the gun was introduced. It wasn't as powerful as the .38-55 but it was known for being very accurate. It did well for me. I've got a Winchester 1894 in .38-55 as well and have killed deer with a .30-30, and they are all very capable rounds, especially on whitetail deer.

Those striations are from the forging process. These are common in the older 94s. I have a model 94 from 1921 with the same striations. Most post war 94s up until 1964 when Winchester switched to investment casting, lack these striations, as their post forging machining process improved dramatically.

I have a few "guard cartridges" in my collection. The only difference is they use a Full Metal Jacket bullet - just like a military cartridge.

Most saddle rings where removed because they where considered noisy. They clanked back and forth on the gun so much so it left a figure 8 pattern on those that where kept on long enough . Some people just wrapped the ring with leather but a lot of people just didn't like them and removed them.

Mr.Green: Go on over to Cody. I know, it's clear across the state, but I'm pretty sure you've been there. Take one of the 1894s and look up Ms. Ashley Hleblinsky at The Cody. If she doesn't know everything there is to know about that rifle, she'l know someone who does. Besides, you'll get to spend time with a brilliant historian who happens to be cuter than a basket of puppies!

I have my Granddad's 1894 30/30 saddle ring carbine, which according to Winchester's records was manufactured in 1903. It has striations like yours do...........mainly on the right side of the receiver ...same side as the loading gate. I always figured they were just tooling marks.

The 94 is one of the most iconic rifle ever made. Made in America 🇺🇸. It is a brush buster. My 94 was manufactured in1937. Love it.

I have a rifle made in 1900 with the same marks. I asked a guy who had the largest Winchester collection at one time. He said that was common. Mr. Harold McCallum, Monroe, Oregon.

They are forge marks,have a 1894 rifle quite similar.

Knew a guy who worked as a guard at San Quentin for a few years in the early 70s. His father worked there for decades, retired, and became a bounty hunter. They said they used Model 94s in 25-35 on the wall. Did these guys have some stories...

Great video, guess I’m a little late. Just checked my 94 saddle ring carbine and the lines are there and my carbine is from the end of the saddle ring line,1925. Thanks for sharing.

After 1896 they started mucking around with the metals that made the receivers and they had a high alloy content so the blue never stuck to the chamber

I would think running the serial number would’ve brought some satisfaction from the archives @ Winchester. VERY strange indeed. I’ve got a ‘94 .30-30 that I purchased 2nd-hand to replace one that was STOLEN out of my truck in Whitefish, Mt..and THAT one had been with me for a long time. I was SO mad, still upset about it and it’s been almost 20 years ago. Anyway, the carbine I have now is a ‘56-‘57 in .30-30, in excellent condition, bore and all..just the bluing is all gone. Interesting video..thanks.

Earned a new sub! Very interesting video. I worked at the Kentucky State Reformatory. Our wall box guns were all Ruger Mini 14’s. It was obvious that they sat in the rack beside the door going out to the perimeter walk. One side was constantly being brushed against and was more exposed to the weather as the finish on the right side faced outward to the door. We could have used a better armorer (if We had one at all?) as they all needed attention. No I wasn’t disassembling them, I would always cycle a round through to make sure there was a round in the chamber and the bolts were all difficult to “get started”! I’m sure dropping the hammer on one would free it up but I liked to know the condition of the rifle in my care.

In my opinion based on the depth and length of the scratches I think it must have been original from Winchester. Like you said the prison system probably got a good deal on those and Winchester didn't have to scrap them. Definitely very interesting rifles I'd love to have one. Thank you 👍

Very interesting, Thanks!

The other 'original' cartridge loaded in the first year production was the 32-40, also a favored target cartridge that was doubly capable of cleanly taking game. The 32 Special quickly replaced the 32-40.

Yes. Those folds were there before machining and finishing. They were not finished as cleanly as commercial guns.

I believe those scratches were there when it was new . Just not noticeable when it was new. . Also that rifle is probably a surplus rifle possibly from the navy. During WWI different countries had a hard time supply firearms to their troops. Many countries including the U.S. bought lever actions in very small numbers for their Airforce and Navy. The U.S. bought a small amount for the Nav and shortly after the war sold them to many prisons as surplus. There is very little paper trail and on Google but if you really keep looking you can find the info You can tell all of this by the rear military ladder sight instead of the traditional buck horn sights

More than likely part of the molding/forging/fabrication process.

Some historians have stated that the 303 Savage was the first commercial smokeless American cartridge. Both are great hunting rounds.

Got four 94's , one with four serial numbers one with five numbers and one with six numbers and a 94 44 mag with six numbers . It's a early model of 44 mag. The markings it more than likley dirty forming dies . Productions bosses were hell back in those days.......

Those Wyoming prison Lever Guns would likely have a prison Stamp’ marking somewhere on the receiver or stock . Wish I had one from Old Folsom Prison!!!! -Most of those old west prisons had a couple Gatling’ guns on hand and as time passed those were replaced with Browning machine guns in a few select towers. The old lever guns were often replaced with 30.06 rifles. I worked with a few old time guards that remember when they first started -once a month they would run a short fire drill with the Browning Machine gun -from a River Tower across the River into no mans land

I cant get enough of these rifles. You can check a quick review I just did on a couple of pre 64 Winchesters if you like.

I have a 1894 Winchester in 25-35 with the Nickel steel barrel. My great granddad found it in an old creek bed. Still shoots all because they used nickel in the steel.

Very interesting! Thanks. I am a retired LEO and I have a great appreciation for these old "working" LE guns. These .30-30 prison rifles speak to me. My beat partner carried a personally owned 12ga. pump shotgun in his patrol car, that was marked as being a veteran of the Yuma State Prison, a most infamous place in the Southwest. Part of our duties was searching for and arresting ex-con fugitives, and that old shotgun seemed to be the perfect choice for that duty. BTW: great looking hat, Evan!

Take pictures of both and overlay one on top of the other to see if the markings match. They look very similar. If they match, i would think at least that would rule out normal wear and point to manufacturing or tooling of some sort. If that is the case, the screws would not have any marks at all. Just a thought. I only watched this because I was looking for rifles made in 25-35 and the history behind them. Good Luck.

Kudos to the last commentor who said they are forging striations. It’s obvious if you compare the two receivers of the different carbines. The scratches match.

Interesting video! Beautiful guns, despite the markings. Gives them character, though!

Have almost excact same ,,die makes,,mine are only in the center of both sides so must be earlier model not so worn out ,yet gr8 vid

Those striations were from the factory and were very common,they blued the receivers and when they were new those flaws were far less noticeable but they look like hell nowadays.Winchester never sold seconds but they did send them west of the Mississippi figuring they were going to get beat up anyway.

I agree with mr. Rhodes a few comments earlier, this is an effect of the forging process, and because people carried it with their bare hands, the acids from their hands would etch into the folds of the forging. You can see how these striations actually go around the back of the frame beyond the Bloodlines and other portions of the shape. I have no answer as to the saddle Rings it's possible they were using those to lock them up and somehow lost the key and decided to take the saddle rings off to get the Firearms off of the lock if they lost the key. That is absolutely pure speculation, I have no idea why they would have lost those. I can understand why they would have taken the saddle ring off, because they were constantly rattling. If you would like a more definitive answer, I would suggest it you get a hold of D&D gun shop in Troy Michigan and ask the proprietor. He probably knows as much about the manufacture of firearms and the Metallurgy used to manufacture them and procedures throughout history as any other human on the planet.

Did any of those prison rifles have a brass plate on the stock inscribed “Prison Authority, Wyoming Territory, Rawlings WYO” ??

Best video ever.

Check with the local gunsmiths for service records on these firearms as the pins and screws may have been replaced during servicing. The scratches look like they were laid across a concrete surface and needed attention after

If I was betting I would say the guns had been rebuilt armorers normally have those pieces and parts in parts supplies.way back when .38-55 was a target shooting round.

i just picked up a 1922 model 94 with a saddle ring . what is the name of this type of sights than stand up and have a sliding tab ? Thanks

Yes i have , i started to round them up while i was high school in 1959 and after i got out of the army . I paid as low as $ 20 for some them , 1873 , 1892 models 94 , 64 , 71 surprising they were all in really good shape ,how many have i got around a 100 or more the last one i bought was 1892 model 32-20 , now it needs a lot of TLC..............The one i hunt with is a 44 mag. model 94 i bought in early 1968 . I never like the 1 in 38 barrel that came with it so i had the barrel change to 1 in 16 . You talk about a big change , from 50 yds. to a 150 yds with on sight change , and i use a peep sight , laugh if you want but 80 years old and i can still lay them in there with the best of these hot shots and there 6.5 and so on with a old Winchester lever action !!!

looks like pattern welding process used to make the thing is what I'm thinking.

I have a Remington model 8 in 35 rem Cal that was used in a prison has those same scratches on it it was my grandfather who carried it for the 15 years he worked there as a guard it's the keys they carry

I have a wichester 94 made in 1937 32 win 32spcl still has its saddle ring

The receiver is made out of wrought iron. Wrought iron has a wood like grain to it.

I wonder what the bores on those 94s look like?

*easy to use and very well*

What does the thickness mic out to is it thicker and just hasn't been polished for the general public??

Are the pins and screws hardened.

Interesting video 🇦🇺👍

What were the serial numbers? Were any sequential?

I have a model 94 mfg in 1896. The lines are very faint (nothing like the examples in video) even though the receiver is in very good shape.

Nomenclature: 1894 - original issue series. model 94 - current continuation.

The guard carried those the keys he carried on his head made those scratches

They infact did as a cheaper model as scrubs at a discount to low budget alternative mill stamp forgings

Maybe the "scratches" were placed there for a more positive grip with sweaty hands?

Do the rifles share a close serial number? Do they have a W under the serial number?

I'm guessing the Warden back then said to Winchester give me 50 rifles as cheap as you can. Winchester may have said we can make you guns at half the price from seconds/poorly machined parts.

Those don’t look like scratches. If they were, not only would they cross the screws and pins, they would cross each other. They don’t. They’re perfectly parallel. They are too wavy for machine marks. That only leaves us with forging marks. The rifles pretty much had to come from the factory like that.

Odd that the barrel band is in front of the front sight.

The wood stocks and fore grip are not scratched they would be scratched if the gate scenario was correct. I believe these are probably blem receivers models that were sold to correction facility at a cut rate most likely . I've done a significant amount of casting and would use a fine brush to get the basic formed mold to a pre cast stage. Some one made a mistake at the factory and didn't check the precast mold and used the wrong one somehow. Instead of trashing them they sold them to a customer that just needed the utilitarian function and didn't care about cosmetic blemish.

Maybe it was made to grip better. Sspecially on chain gangs, rain, sleet ice, who knows. I teresting for sure.

It does look like one of those did have a saddle ring on it at one time because of the circular scarring on the one rifle

I think they came straight from the factory just like you see them. The factory probably sold them as blemished but fully functional at a very low price to a State agency.

factory seconds sold to NONprivate bulk buyers (like military/prison/P.D.)

THEY WERE JUST BUILT like that the machine left them rough is all it was there milling marks, and they left them rough

There have been only three firing squad executions in the last 45-50 years, all in Utah. At least in one they used Winchester model 94 30-30 rifles. Probably the other two as well.

I have a model 1894 manufactured in 1899, it does not have the stirations as yours does. The receiver is very smooth and looks machine polished.

Where did u get that hat."..?

Are those actual scratches or remnants of the bluing left in lines? Run your fingernail across the receiver and see if you can feel ridges or scratches. Many receivers on older Winchester lever actions wear in similar patters as seen here but they are not actually scratches in the metal, for some reason, maybe the metallurgy of the time? Barrels, or any other parts of the guns that I have seen do not wear in this pattern, only the Winchester receivers. Usually these types of striations on the Win. receivers seem to occur mainly in models made from about 1900-1940, and not all models of that time period. It must have something to do with the metal and the conditions in which caused the wear, ie. cleaning chemicals, humidity, and maybe even the material used to clean the guns with. Not really sure why this happens but I have seen it many, many times on these old Winchester receivers. By the way the first cartridge loading's for the Winchester model 1894 were two black powder cartridges, the .38-55 and the .32-40 in 1894. In 1895 Winchester changes the metal in the barrels to allow for higher pressure rounds and then chambered the first smokeless cartridge .30-30 and became the first American repeating rifle developed for smokeless powder cartridges. The .38-55 and the .32-20 cartridges were also very accurate calibers and were chambered for many of the target rifles of the period such as the Winchester Highwall. I hope some of this info helps.

maybe its from wedding ring if you carry a rifle in a wedding ring on you hand it might do that

Hi Folks, I have a 1894 carbine 32WIN.SPÉCIAL with no Serial number on it , but stamped under the forehand on the barrel with a number 25 and like the book I have from the model 1894 this is the year of making and all the markings and type of tang, sights hammer and barrel markings and other variations of this carbine are like the ones of under the 1 millioun range. I can also exclued that the serial number was removed because you would find some kind of traces and I compared it with other carbines! DOES ANYBODY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT IF WINCHESTER SOLD SOME WITHOUT SERIAL NUMMBERS ON IT??? THS for your opinions! Roger from Central Europe

I just miced..my pre 64..top edge of the main block .24...I have a bill cody and a post 64..I think its 79 ...both of them are .25...my guess is the ones you have are not milled..or polished to save cost

I like that hat! Type/model?

You refered to them as "carbines"? If they're chambered in .30-.30 they are not a carbine. A carbine is a long gun/rifle chambered in a pistol caliber. One could have a Henry rifle chambered in 30-30 and a Rossi carbine chambered in .44 mag, both lever rifles.

Looks like wrought iron, early metal fabrication.

Scratches probably from striking matches?

The reason for the machining marks indicate They weren’t “benched”.

Aka the Spruce gun

Receivers are wrought iron.

Looks like machinery marks

the only thing that I can think of is when they're going to in and out of their locked Gates they're scratching it on the side of the gate when the gate comes back and hits their plate on that rifle because some of those gates are spring loaded that's the only thing I could think of

I have Winchester usa 1894model what price

Well, very interesting all the comments here, but no one got an idee why my carbine has no serial number, see my comment a month ago 🤠

👍

They look like factory marks to me.

i love my carbean

They were scared by the wooden rifle keeps on the towers they were rough cut lumber and asbestos shingle side

winch....number one !!!!

32-40

I feel much safer watching the video 1500 miles away knowing the weapons have been verified unloaded just like the ones on the Rust movie set.

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