Our good friend and Freaks And Jeeps recovery expert, Perry McDonough, demonstrates proper winching using the single line pull and snatch block methods.
Пікірлер: 142
@neilwilliams44345 жыл бұрын
I work as a rigger. Get it together. NEVER side load a shackle like that, and always always tighten your pin. That's rule one. The internet is NOT gospel, do your own research.
@purple0burtle4 жыл бұрын
Hopefully the "D-ring" (shackle) is rated to lowest breaking stress/load. This weakest point would be how you say "side-loaded". If the shackle is rated to 1000lbs, then it wouldn't fail if used sideways for load of 100lbs. If used correctly, a shackle rated to 1000lbs will not fail even under a load of nearly twice that!!!! It will deform at about 1480lbs but not fail. I would be more concerned with the hook and with the stitching on the "tree-band", or the shackle rotating under stress and causing a sudden change in tension when the slack is caught.
@mcuadra64663 жыл бұрын
I came to the comments to see if someone would point this out. Good catch
@MrSouthofBoston2 жыл бұрын
5:56 Is this the point in the video that you are referring to? I'm trying to learn.
@dp71979 жыл бұрын
Perry, here are some things I noticed which you should be aware of: 1. If you are going to have your winch controller hooked up while pulling the cable out it would be best that it be away from the cable/fairlead so it does not get tangled up in it. Really best not to plug it in until needed. 2. The red strap you removed from the hook is used to pull the cable out and keep your hands off the hook or wire. 3. Your tree strap is too short for the diameter of the tree and almost does not allow to connect to the shackles. 4. Your tree strap should be at the base of the tree, not 2+ feet above it - probably due to the inadequate length. 5. You are using screw-pin anchor shackles of the bow variety (bow shackles), not "D" rings. 6. When you attach your bow shackle to the tree strap the strap should be on the bow of the shackle and not the pin. 7. You always back your pin off 1/4-1/2 a turn to prevent it from bindind if an off-center load is placed on the shackle. 8. If you need to cross over your cable you step on it, don't step over it and certainly don't set up your rigging stratling it. 9. Remember to engage your clutch before winding in or nothing happens and there should always be tension on the cable when taking up the slack, not loose like demonstrated. 10. Your winch may have 8500lbs of pulling capacity, but not on the last layer of the drum with only 30 feet pulled out. 11. Pulley blocks, not snatch blocks, don't increase the pulling capacity of the winch. They use the mechanical advantage to halve the load. 12. Best to put the Jeep back in gear so it does not roll away when the winch clutch is disengaged. 13. When you hooked up the pulley block to the bow shackle you side loaded it - something you should not do, but was probably done due to the strap being too short. 14. Alway screw the shackle pin down and not up so that the pin can't fall out. 15. I would do this over.
@Krb686919 жыл бұрын
This is a demonstration, chill out. I've never seen more people think they need to give advice and correct everybody else than on these snatch/towing/recovery videos, and I'm routinely around a boat load of engineers
@dp71979 жыл бұрын
Krb68691 you are right. I should have probably not pointed out serious safety concerns done by a "recovery expert" on a video on "proper winching", watched by 28k+ people. I just hope no one gets hurt using any of the techniques shown on this "demonstration". Please feel free to remove my comment if you are the one who posted this video. Thanks - an engineer.
@Krb686919 жыл бұрын
dp7197 I am absolutely all about safety, and I'm glad you are as well. I think you nitpicked on a couple points that aren't safety related, or aren't clear screw ups in my opinion (#2 he uses gloves and pulled with 2 hands instead, #3 debatable, #4 Still, fairly low on that thick tree with a light, unstuck jeep. Would still be good to mention, though, #5 Nitpicking terminology/information. Many companies even sell "bow shackles" as "d rings"), but you did mention a lot of good points. I agree with essentially all the rest of your points, some of which I had not read when I posted my earlier comment.
@dp71979 жыл бұрын
Krb68691 I am glad he used gloves, and loose fitting ones at that. Loose as you can more easily remove your hand in the unfortunate instance it becomes pinched by the cable. The red strap is kind of gimicki, but a frayed wire will still go through a gloved hand. Straps may be used in many ways with the "basket" orientation being the strongest and what is typically used by recreational 4-wheelers when winching. When the angle of the strap exceed 120 degrees, the WLL of the shackle is reduced significantly. This is why screw-pin bow shackles are used and not D-rings - which are designed for straight pulls. I can't help what some people call their hardware, I just try and make sure that the correct terminology is used when it makes a difference - and in this application it does make a difference. Really important not to side load a shackle either and a longer strap properly attached to the bow of the shackle would have prevented this and allowed for a smaller angle keeping the WLL close to 100%.
@Lethalchem9 жыл бұрын
dp7197 So it's ok to hook to the pin? I'm new to winching and was thinking I should always hook to the bow end.
@elementau12104 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. I learned a lot from the comments!
@DanFisher28 жыл бұрын
I've done high steel rigging for live events. The shackles are not designed to be side loaded. They are rated to be pulled from the bell and pin. So if the shackle can get through the snatch blocks hole it should be resting under tension on the center of the curved bell side, otherwise it should be on the pin and the strap loops on the bell. Never sideways. Otherwise the video was very informative
@DanFisher27 жыл бұрын
yes?
@nefnm7 жыл бұрын
Absolutely! Mr. Fisher is correct. If a rigger ever used a shackle with a side load orientation, they'd be sent back to remedial training.
@c-zen8906 жыл бұрын
Isn't that what he is doing already?
@joegroeser69696 жыл бұрын
never side load period!!!
@Blue-Lady4 жыл бұрын
Hello Mr Fisher can you provide a link to educate me in the manner? I want to grab a cost efficient winch yet make it effective by using a snatch block. What is Side Loading?
@jamesbonanno33596 жыл бұрын
Hopefully they'll be another video with corrections as this one was done well. There were mistakes in the video that have been pointed out. You do not side-load a bow shackle. Also when people mention backing the pin out , that is incorrect! I don't know why we keep teaching this. Whenever you do any kind of rigging, whether it be for vertical or horizontal loads, you always tighten your pins hand tight. There's a reason for that hole in the pin. It is to slide a screwdriver or other type of shank through so that you can loosen it if it gets too tight when subjected to a load. If you are doing basic rigging and recovery without simple hand tools you shouldn't be performing said functions . Never ever, ever back out a bit after it has been seated. They are all designed to use every thread when you screw them in. Also the hook up or down doesn't matter if you dampen the line properly. There is no actual testing of hooking up or hooking down and the results. Make sure that you use a line dampener of some sort when using wire rope. Stay safe while performing your rigging/recovery techniques.
@remymelvin64923 жыл бұрын
i realize it's quite randomly asking but do anyone know of a good website to watch newly released tv shows online ?
@HNXMedia5 жыл бұрын
Thumbs up simply for being one of the few people I have ever seen run a front-mounted winch and be smart enough to protect their windshield with the hood of their Jeep.
@user-hh4hc2lt6e6 жыл бұрын
Wow never thought of the hood thing
@cortasauruss10 жыл бұрын
Also with D shackles you should release it half a turn from tight to prevent it from becoming so tight that you cant loosen it by hand, and you should also always pull on a D shackle from either end of it not the sides
@gcke2008 Жыл бұрын
it is not a D shackle but a basic anchor shackle.Yes,unsafe to side-load shackle from the side.
@joegroeser69696 жыл бұрын
Just some food for thought: Do not side load “D” shaped shackles such as chain shackles or long reach shackles. These shackles are designed and rated for in-line applied tension. Therefore, the center line of the load should coincide with the center line of the shackle. Anchor body style shackles (screw pin style, as pictured above, or bolt nut cotter anchor body style) can be side loaded. Always refer to reductions in rating charts when performing this type of rigging.
@susantipsyhealy765511 ай бұрын
I like the tips you brought up about safety. I learned many from being in law enforcement and talking to tow truck drivers operators. I watched this for info on the snatch bloc use. I knew about not placing the d ring like done video. But otherwise informative
@WVStrokerSmoker10 жыл бұрын
You're gonna spread your shackle hooking it like that..
@chino31518 жыл бұрын
noce video but you should just hook up your hood to the trap without the shackle"D ring" if something dose snap it will just be one piece of metal coming back. with a snatch block, hook up the shackle so that its looped around the strap and the hook is pulling on the bell and pin.
@mattmccorriston47517 жыл бұрын
Whoa can someone explain to this dude that's not a "d ring" it's a Shackle or Clevis. And should NEVER be used the way he shows here. Otherwise some really great safety ideas and points made!!
@freedomrider2665 жыл бұрын
Yo dude, the official name for that is "thingamajig."
@mikegoolsby27313 жыл бұрын
Great video
@jumper20796 жыл бұрын
Also, instead of that costly, purpose built line orange line dampener, a wet towel works just as well. Next time you're about to throw one away because it's all old and faded and frayed, throw it in the Jeep. There, just saved you between $20 and $60 bucks.
@stewartj34074 жыл бұрын
Better yet just throw your sock over it. Or maybe a tissue, or toilet paper, everyone carries tp in the woods rite?
@jamesphillips79774 жыл бұрын
Rig the cable and snatch block so the pull will be twice a s fast as the winch. It can be done.
@natfunk59927 жыл бұрын
Mr. Safety Pro over here damn near got the cable snagged on the electrical wires right off the bat.
@theplinkerslodge63612 жыл бұрын
I saw that, noted that. I don't understand how you can take all the time and effort to set up the video and not redo that scene. Where's the pride? Not knocking the guys for trying, anyone producing videos is appreciated.
@bigcitytexan4 жыл бұрын
And this is why you can't trust the internet or some old man wearing his finest tactical EMT pants with his non-dirty non-stuck jeep giving lessons... Hell, even his gloves are too clean for me!
@eugenescott837310 жыл бұрын
good video... thanks for the info
@hadrianhaine52045 жыл бұрын
That's a bow shackle, not a D shackle and you have rigged it incorrectly, that is dangerous and at the start you said something about safety lol...
@hankreed10364 жыл бұрын
Lol *makes informational video about winches* *side loads a lifting shackle*
@android13315 жыл бұрын
Very Informative. Thank you.
@xeviuus3 жыл бұрын
This is really helpful. I learned a lot from this short video. Thanks!
@dave485410 жыл бұрын
throw a heavy tarp or blanket over the cable to slow it down in case it breaks
@mikegray69116 жыл бұрын
D ring.... that's s shackle not a d ring ...
@TJ-hd5ym3 жыл бұрын
Bow shackle
@Greatlakesprepper7 жыл бұрын
this was cringe worthy to watch..Yea I understand everybody has their slight differences in accomplishing the same goal. But when making an instructional video you need to be at the top of your game. 1:don't use D shackle if you don't have to,hook both loops of tree strap through winch hook. 2: side loading of that Shackle well eventually shear off the threads of the screw leading to %100 lateral pressure on the 'bow' 3: no mention of attaching an anchor tether to the other end of the vehicle,sure it takes 1 extra minute but could protect your $40K jeep from running away straight into your anchor point. (witnessed this happening)
@christianbrotherspaintingi68216 жыл бұрын
seeing the use of the d-ring was all it took for me to realize this is scary. bad teacher, bad
@boostingmorale4 жыл бұрын
an expert loading the shackle sideways
@randomnav4 жыл бұрын
The sound is terrible. Hard time hearing you. What do you have running?
@whatsongisthis56917 жыл бұрын
Synthetic line x10. No worry about hooks through windshield
@lokirip23725 жыл бұрын
Cue the critics and know it alls now...
@Turbok20eg4 жыл бұрын
Cue the people that post videos and expect no criticism or non-positive replies😂😂 Criticism can be informative🤔😉
@culayta10 жыл бұрын
Do you leave the Jeep running or you just turn the key on the on position?
@MrHarleyoldfart8 жыл бұрын
+Joe Smith Leave it running, to keep the battery charging when winching.
@hingedelephant2 жыл бұрын
All great except for side loading that shackle.
@stupidman97746 жыл бұрын
blanket needs to be 1/4 the from the pulling point on a single line pull. if it lets go its going to hook the blaket and kill it instantly. half way is to much free line left to come back and whip lash back towards the blanket. knows enough to be half as dangerous as some one with no common sense. half way is not good enough. i make 10000lb. pulls all day long on a frame machine and ive broken many of chains rated at 15000. but hey do your way, his way or my way. i dont give a damn if you loose a head, a leg or have your entrals spilled by a whip lashing chain or cable.
@adamant714610 жыл бұрын
didnt watch the whole vid but is the hood open n case something breaks it doesnt go thru windshield?
@bobster80008 жыл бұрын
+adam ant yes
@sgsellsit3 жыл бұрын
Never run a straight line pull winch cable around a small diameter pulley. That is asking for damage to the cable.
@johnsebastian95407 жыл бұрын
He is using a WIRE cable, not synthetic. Also, why would you use an extra connection point that you don't need even if you have synthetic line??? Do what you like but this is winching basics.
@zanekubicek21868 жыл бұрын
Just tie to a dam tree and start pulling it never fails...
@jeremywhitesell26882 жыл бұрын
It will now cause the trees are dying.
@dirtshower2509 жыл бұрын
Sorry bud, wrangler dosent weigh 5,000. My xj weighs around 3,600 tools and everything.
@l337pwnage9 жыл бұрын
XJ's are unibody, though, AFAIK. But, ya, I can't imagine TJ's are that overweight, even loaded. Unless he's running 1 ton running gear and tires to match.
@spaceminions9 жыл бұрын
l337pwnage wikipedia says TJ's are 3092-3857Lbs curb weight.
@pauldeleon43456 жыл бұрын
Good video, but you shouldn't pull sideways on the D-clamp. It puts all the tension on the screw.
@ridermak41114 жыл бұрын
If that open hook is in a junk drawer in your garage, it won’t break.
@ddunn107 жыл бұрын
why does your 3000 lb Jeep TJ weigh 5000 lb?
@daviddelle7746 жыл бұрын
2000 of bullshit.
@truthhurtsbro31689 жыл бұрын
1:31 "but, if you are going to use a hook, you gonna want to try to at least use one that has a CLOSED, CLOSER ON IT".... homie just lost some street cred yo
@_dh9 жыл бұрын
TruthHurtsBro "closed CLOSURE"
@51WCDodge4 жыл бұрын
Don't Americans know about wireless winch remote control?
@sheriffroylambifs8946 жыл бұрын
NO COMMENT(S) !!!!!!!
@51WCDodge4 жыл бұрын
Your on a slope, any slope' add 5% to your load, increasing with the slope . PS If that lot flies the bonnet wont stop it, just add to the cost of repair.
@MNDashcam2 жыл бұрын
Thin and flimsy that plastic hood is it's not going to stop anything. A solid metal Hood is more likely to deflect it especially if it's at an angle
@jtiglio25385 жыл бұрын
never never side load a shackle....i saw you start to try and fix it but you decided not to...could have been a bad decision
@KFB19577 жыл бұрын
Thats not a D-ring its a shackle.
@nickk9485 жыл бұрын
I'm here to learn and even I thought the way you put that D shackle on its side was shonky
@cessnaflyer3 жыл бұрын
?
@mang34526 жыл бұрын
This is an old vid, but i like to point out that , double line pull this way has 2 benefit, one ,the load spread to two anchor on the jeep 50/50 the weight distributed but no mechanical advantages in theory because it a change of direction to the anchor self, however because its on flat plane position then jeep will pull forwards on wheels with little stress on the chassis. two, the cable length spread the load so it can take more tension so more tensile strength as a result. Agreed with the theory of PULLEY system by Chinese over thousand year ago, this set up gain no mechanical advantage, your winch will work harder consider the change of direction along the pulley some friction and drag.
@windage5 жыл бұрын
sorry, it is not simply a change of direction..since the vehicle moves toward the pulley, 20 ft of cable out only moves the jeed 10 ft..winch works half as hard for twice as long...2 to 1 advantage
@Dave-dk6ve5 жыл бұрын
Klang is correct there is no mechanical advantage. The Jeep moves the same as the cable. The pulley is anchored. This is only changing direction. If the winch was anchored to the tree and the pulley was “traveling” with the Jeep then you would have a mechanical advantage.
@KC-bg8sg5 жыл бұрын
All too clean and unused for me, even his gloves.
@ezrabrooks77855 жыл бұрын
Like a car salesman demo.
@ClayBlasdel449 жыл бұрын
terrible sound. try again
@rexmccomb75896 жыл бұрын
You done real well until you sideloaded that shackle then you killed somebody danger danger danger my background fireman instructor mine technical rescue instructor also been a mechanic on heavy equipment for Catapillar dealer
@johnsebastian95407 жыл бұрын
Major no-no! Don't EVER use a D shackle when not needed. Connect your winch cable directly to the tree strap. This eliminates another connection point which can break and become a projectile!
@DanFisher27 жыл бұрын
very true
@chubbzyrushby22717 жыл бұрын
John Sebastian these are U shackles not d shackles.. can be used for winching. not snatching
@DanFisher27 жыл бұрын
chubzzy rush still a unnecessary extra piece that can become a projectile if something gives
@chubbzyrushby22717 жыл бұрын
Dan Fisher but this is why they're designed bro. im an advanced rigger if theyre tested annually and used correctly they wont become projectiles. be safe and vigilant
@DanFisher27 жыл бұрын
chubzzy rush but if say the tree saver snaps. With a shackle on the tree saver you have a hook and a shackle flying at your vehicle. With just the hook you only have one possible projectile AND you can steer it down if the hook is what fails. Basically keep it simple stupid. Least components possible. In high steel rigging, You aren't going to use a extra shackle or deck chain links if it's not necessary. Your not going to bridle if you can dead hang. Same for winching.
@nickjennings35006 жыл бұрын
OMG how not to do it more like.
@stanlouis4589 жыл бұрын
Use a cable blanket and leave the hood down... duh.
@antonsworkshopco4 жыл бұрын
use synthetic rope and hood down no blanket needed
@turn-n-burn14212 жыл бұрын
Terrible audio.
@guitarsncarsnart8 жыл бұрын
I dont think he gains any "strength" as he calls it, or mechanical advantage with that snatch block used as a Fixed Pulley on the tree... He WOULD halve the effort / weight if he had his buddy run his own winch line through the snatch block attached to the yellow Jeep's bumper and then hooked to the tree. Then it would have been as if the tree was pulling and his buddy's jeep was pulling if his buddy ran his winch. In this demonstration all he did was change the direction of the pull.
@lucbritten58848 жыл бұрын
+guitarsncarsnart winching through the snatch block attached to the tree as shown (double-line pull) does indeed half the winch effort required. Exactly the same amount as the method you described requiring the other truck.
@guitarsncarsnart8 жыл бұрын
+shannon smith Yes this is true, It is a useful technique.
@guitarsncarsnart8 жыл бұрын
+Luc Britten Do you think all he does in this case is change the direction of the pull using the pulley like that?
@lucbritten58848 жыл бұрын
If he were attaching the cable from the block back to another anchor like a tree, then all he would be doing is changing direction, but doubling the cable back to his truck halves the load (not increases strength as he says) on the winch :)
@Dave-dk6ve5 жыл бұрын
He is not decreasing load! Only changing direction. The pulley needs to “travel” in order to reduce the load. There is no mechanical advantage. Every foot of cable pulled in equals the Jeep moving 1 foot.
@saff2264 жыл бұрын
This guy has no idea what he is doing. There is no "d rings" in this video. Its a bow shackle that is being used incorrectly. The straps should go on the bow and the hook or snatch block should go on the pin. Never put 2 things on a pin.
@zrig18 жыл бұрын
A pulley that does not move provides no mechanical advantage. All it does is redirect your cable. Don't take my word for it. Here is a way to prove the concept to your self. If you create a 2:1 pulley system you would pull 10 meters of cable and the jeep would only move 5 meters and move at half the speed of a direct pull (from winch to tree). So if you pull 10 meters of cable and the jeep moved 10 meters, no mechanical advantage. In his setup the jeep had no choice but move the same distance as the amount of cable pulled (no moving pulley). A second Snatch block on the jeeps bumper and the cable routed back to his anchor would create a 2:1 system with a redirect. Physics are physics no matter where they are applied. You don't get something for nothing. He doubled the load on the anchor, but not at the jeep. Still a 1:1 at Jeep. 2:1 at tree. Very important concept to understand so you don't pull a tree over on your Jeep because it was too small for the load you did not think it was taking.
@somethingclever87447 жыл бұрын
I think your point is on target . . . but your conclusion is incorrect. Think about it. In this doubled back configuration, if 10 feet of cable is pulled on to the winch, the jeep will only move 5 feet. This is because the 10 feet is divided between the 2 sides of the rigging. Each side gets 5 feet shorter for a total of 10 feet. So there is a 2:1 mechanical advantage! If, on the other hand, the winch were operating from a fixed point (such as your buddy's vehicle that does not move), then you would be correct, and 10 feet of cable would move the Jeep 10 feet and it would amount to a direction change only. By the way, the load on the tree will be the same no matter what your rigging. You won't pull the tree over. Let's say the Jeep needs 1000 lbs to make it move. With a single line the force will all be in that single line. With the line doubled back as shown, the force will be divided in half for 500 pounds per line, or 1000 total. The Jeep and the Tree will experience 1000 pounds of force in both configurations. They can't tell the difference. This will be true even if your ran back and forth many times with multiple pulleys. The stress in each line and on the winch gets reduced, but he total force on the Jeep and on the tree remain the same. (This is a classic homework problem from a college physics course.)
@chubbzyrushby22717 жыл бұрын
sheep Dog youve thought so hard about it youve confused yourself. because its doubled back does make it a mechanical advantage. the engineer who has designed this has made millions
@zrig17 жыл бұрын
Yup. Had to prove it to myself one way or the other. I stand corrected. Grabbed some rope gear and rigged myself up a simple winch (me) through snatch block on tree (pulley with webbing around exposed wall stud stud) laid out 6 feet of rope (12 feet in total 6 there and 6 back). Pulled six moved 3. A bit of a face palm moment. Totally did not factor in the rotating drum. Apologies to freaks and jeeps.
@chubbzyrushby22717 жыл бұрын
sheep Dog haha all good bro we're only human
@anesamm9456 жыл бұрын
sheep dog one of them modern mindless university memorizers ?
@ronaldregan54766 жыл бұрын
Sound sucks. And you never finished the vid. Please remake.
@prescribedfire19538 жыл бұрын
Very poor technique! This is a what-not-to-do video
@sepehrzamani10808 жыл бұрын
I didn't think its that bad. The hood up. the weight on the line, hooking up instead of down, I thought all that is very useful.
@jennagentles18368 жыл бұрын
What is poor about it? Don't say it's bad without giving reasons. Some people (like me) are watching to learn some things so it could be helpful if you offered more info .
@louisebelcher39302 жыл бұрын
What a terrible video! A complete waste of time! I only watched 30 seconds
@mynameisprivate1585 жыл бұрын
It is better to not teach at all than to go on KZfaq and teach unsafe techniques!!!
@srvjediknightsrv7507 жыл бұрын
how does a jeep weigh 5000 lbs lol
@perrymcdonough75746 жыл бұрын
Srvjediknight SRV Armor. 1/4" steel skid plates under the transfer case, gas tank. Radiator skid plate, winch, 1/4" steel bumpers. Recovery gear, full size spare, 33" tires, tools, driver and fluids, Dana 44 front, etc, and my dog. That wrangler tipped the scales at 5000 lbs.