Winston Churchill's CRAZY Post-War Plan For Germany

Рет қаралды 403,351

Күн бұрын

Play Enlisted now with my link, and get a free bonus pack including soldiers, weapons, and premium account: playen.link/generalknowledge
Thanks to Enlisted for sponsoring this video.
Support me on Patreon & get exclusive / ahead of time content! / generalknowledge
▶ In this video I talk about Winston's Churchill proposed division plan for Germany after WW2. In the context of the three main conferences that took place at the end of the conflict; beginning in Tehran, continuing in Yalta and culminating in Potsdam, the Allied Powers were decided that a separation of Germany into various independent countries might be necessary to guarantee there would be no future German aggression. Despite agreeing on this principle, the three main Allied Powers of the United States, Soviet Union and United Kingdom disagreed on how Germany should be divided - how many countries should be created, and which ones. Because of this they decided to create a 'Committee on the Dismemberment of Germany' to determine whether de-industrialization and demilitarization were enough, or if this separation was effectively needed, and if yes, how it should be done. Various proposals were considered by the Committee, although it's uncertain which. Some reports point to a potential list of 6 countries being created from the territory of pre-war Germany. However, two main proposals for the division of Germany come across: first, a proposal by Winston Churchill to create a Protestant North German state (with little territorial loss) and a Catholic South German state which would be united with Austria, Hungary and Carpatho Ukraine, being named 'The Confederation of the Danube'; in addition to a third German state in the West, called the 'International Zone'. The second proposal was that of US Secretary of Treasury Henry Morgenthau, who proposed a division of Germany in similar fashion, except ceding more territory in the Saar basin to France, leaving out Austria and Hungary from the South German state, and expanding the International Zone to all of the North-West, reaching into Kiel. In either case, Poland would gain much less territory that it ended up gaining.
Both of these proposals were refused, and the (almost unknown) work of the Committee was pointless due to the development of circumstances after German surrender and the beginning of the Cold War. An effective (temporary) division of Germany took place between East and West, resulting of the temporary occupation areas. But a further separation of the country was avoided by the Allies who seemed to prefer to have a solid post-war Germany as their ally against an ever-growing Soviet Union.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Intro
01:11 The initial idea
01:22 The Yalta Conference
03:02 Enlisted
04:21 The decision to break Germany apart
06:04 The Saar Protectorate
06:48 The Committee on the 'Dismemberment' of Germany
07:31 How did this Committee work?
07:52 The main proposals considered
08:19 The objectives of the Committee
09:32 Winston Churchill's plan for separating Germany
12:11 Henry Morgenthau's plan for separating Germany
13:37 President Roosevelt's Opinion on the idea
14:42 The Cold War impact on these plans
16:26 Summary
▶ Follow me on Twitter: / gkonyoutube
▶ Join the Discord Server: / discord
▶ Business Contact: gilfamc@gmail.com
▶ Thanks for watching, remember to subscribe to catch future videos!

Пікірлер: 1 000

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

*Do you think this would have been a good idea?* Also, Play Enlisted now with my link, and get a free bonus pack including soldiers, weapons, and premium account: playen.link/generalknowledge

@RacerA8 Жыл бұрын

It would be shit

@AJ-ho1jv Жыл бұрын

@The LIM Report lol

@tigas7692 Жыл бұрын

Whats your animation site?

@heimricvanleeuwen2563 Жыл бұрын

At first I thought: "what a corrupt idea" After a second thought, however, and especially after considering what eventually happened to Germany, it seems like an agreeable idea. Prussia would've kept the eastern regions, and since this wicked 'Danube country' is a totally unrealistic idea and probably would've split up in a few years (if not weeks) it would've most likely resulted in a reunification of Germany with it's pre-war borders.

@kromek_jga Жыл бұрын

The truth is that if there was no threat from the USSR, today there would be several independent German states. The threat from Stalin convinced the Western countries to keep Germany as one country, which would be a buffer between them and the East. After all, it is still strange that independent Lusatia was not created and Denmark did not receive the rest of Schleswig-Holstein

@bababababababa6124 Жыл бұрын

That Danube country would’ve been long af imagine Stuttgart and Budapest in the same nation

@jtgd Жыл бұрын

They shoulda kept it going to the Black Sea. Don’t see why it stopped at Romania

@gewnurb Жыл бұрын

@@jtgdcoz romania switched side

@taffingtonboathouse5754 Жыл бұрын

The snake

@eliotguerin192 Жыл бұрын

Austro-Chilean Empire

@eljanrimsa5843 Жыл бұрын

745 km. Less than Freiburg im Breisgau to Greifswald.

@misterbubbles6389 Жыл бұрын

From what I've read, Roosevelt also had a plan himself, which would've involved completely dissolving Germany into a series of separate states, basically returning the region to what it was before unification.

@cjclark1208 Жыл бұрын

Loose Confederacy (stretching the term) of smaller “HRE” German States/Principalities/Fiefs/Duchies?

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

And how would they have made sure it staid seperate? Permanent military occupation? In our timeline, the Americans pushed for rearming West Germany as early as 1951 because the cost of having hundreds of thousand US soldiers permanently stationed in West Germany (even without them actively carrying out a military occupation) was staggering and the President feared losing congressional funding.

@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 Жыл бұрын

The Morgenthau plan was suggested by one of FDRs staff, but it was never approved by him or presented as the American plan

@iwillnoteatzebugs Жыл бұрын

And 50 years later there would be another war

@MegaWolen Жыл бұрын

It is a pity that this was not done. Germany should have been divided already after the First World War. Unfortunately, this was not decided at the time, and instead an "armistice for 20 years" was chosen, as Marshal Foch put it. The result of the failure to split Germany at Versailles was World War II, after which Germany was not divided either (only into two states, one of which still remained a power). In contrast, it was utterly short-sighted to allow the reunification of Germany in 1991, which made Germany think again in terms of empires and large territories, with negative consequences for the whole of Europe. Germany is too big for Europe. It should be divided into a number of smaller states (around 10 million like Austria), because only then would it focus on its own development and not on trying to subjugate Europe. Only by breaking up Germany can Prussian imperialism and the drive for hegemony be killed in Germany.

@MrTTar Жыл бұрын

Churchill's plan needs to be considered in the context of his concerns (which were proven correct) about the Westward spread of communism. A hypothetical Danubian Confederation would have locked Hungary and Carpatho-Ukraine to the likes of Bavaria and Austria - potentially keeping them more in the Western "sphere". This was also the reason why Churchill kept arguing for prioritising the liberation of the Balkans over France (the "Southern Strategy") - something US General Mark W. Clark later stated that not pursuing further was one of his biggest regrets of the war. Although it's easy to laugh at the border-gore of the Danubian Confederation, it needs to be taken alongside Churchill's "iron curtain" logic. However, it probably doesn't help that Churchill was blind drunk when first proposing it - just as when offering Northern Ireland to tempt Ireland to join the war.

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

The argument of shielding the region from Soviet influence does seem to be the only one that makes sense.

@OnlyGrafting Жыл бұрын

@@General.Knowledge nah the rest of the plan makes sense too. Just like the American dude he wanted their industrial heartland and resources to be outwith their control to prevent a future war. He wanted a large state in the south capable of holding communism back in the east and he wanted north Germans to still remain in tact as a player in Europe, likely to also stand as a block for communist advances. All of it is sensical if you completely ignore the religious and ethnic tensions that could be stoked by dividing western Germany purely for industrial reasons and merging Austria Hungary in with south Germans decades after their state collapsed.

@grantforester1864 Жыл бұрын

It wasn’t just Churchills plan, it was Otto von Hapsburgs. He wanted to bring the smaller nations into a big one to protect them from Germany, Russia, communism, and nationalism. Really interesting figure

@eliotguerin192 Жыл бұрын

Wouldn’t such a long NATO-aligned corridor stretching across central Europe to Ukraine have caused serious problems with the Soviets though? Stalin was already paranoid enough without a new NATO country bordering him. May have even started WW3

@Zarok_ Жыл бұрын

@@OnlyGrafting The millions of Germans that would have starved to death with Morgenthau's plan make it somewhat of a stupid plan

@petergray7576 Жыл бұрын

Churchill wanted to do the most British thing ever: partitioning an intact country to prevent conflict (which doesn't actually work). Trivia question: Which British statesman suggested the partition of newly independent French Indochina into northern and southern halves. Sir Anthony Eden (Churchill's former foreign minister).

@maxdavis7722 Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t say it doesn’t work. If you divide it enough and ensure it doesn’t unite then it won’t be able to fight again. The problem is either not dividing it enough or not punishing it enough and just passing it off like in ww1.

@theChaosKe Жыл бұрын

@@maxdavis7722 The treaty of versaille is nowadays largely blamed for creating the nazis. If you drive a country to shit you leave them no choice but to start another war. Chances are even if there was no hitler some other nutso would have steared germany into war. Thats why nowadays a more diplomatic approach is always considered better.

@DarthVantos Жыл бұрын

The british don't cut up countries to prevent conflict. They cut them up to "CAUSE" conflict. It has a name, divide and conquer. British Imperialism and doing Divide and conquer to over 100 hundred countries. Many countries are in conflicts today because of this. The UK itself could be Partitioned into 3 kingdoms. This would not cause peace in the UK it would cause chaos and the wars that would follow. And when we cut the UK up into 3 kingdoms, we make sure to ethnic groups isolated in each country. Now you have the middle-east and africa style conflicts.

@thegyattiestmanalive22.2 Жыл бұрын

i understand the reasoning though. it was to save hungary from communism.

@Emanon... Жыл бұрын

As a Palestinian in the diaspora, yes. Nothing has fucked up more than Brits drawing lines on a map...

@te4st111 Жыл бұрын

As an Austrian, I must say that Churchill's plan would have been advantageous for Austria. A state with the economic heavyweights Austria, Bavaria and Baden Württemberg would have been created, which would probably still exist today, while Hungary would certainly have seceded decades ago and would be its own sovereign state by now.

@ArchsageCanas Жыл бұрын

At that time, Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg were pretty poor with mostly agrarian economy, not too much of use for Austria that had access to the same resources. The economic build-up of those regions happened mostly in the 60s, financed by the revenue from coal and steel of the Ruhr valley, which makes today's arrogance of Bavaria much more ironic.

@m.s.8927 Жыл бұрын

Wie der andere schon erwähnt hat, ist speziell Bayern erst Ende der 60er auf Kosten des zerstörten Restdeutschlands reich geworden und war bis tief in die 70er unter dem Bundesdurchschnitt was Reichtum und Wirtschaft angeht. Auch Baden-Württemberg hat profitiert, aber die waren schon vorher halbwegs reich und sind nicht im Ansatz so nervig, daher nehme ich das denen nicht übel. Tatsächlich würde ich vermuten, dass die international kontrollierte Zone sich sehr schnell Deutschland wieder hätte anschließen können (durch die politische Lage im kalten Krieg) und diese südliche Konföderation auch recht schnell zerfallen wäre, was dann entweder in einem Süd- und Norddeutschland oder einem großen Gesamtdeutschland geendet hätte. Du musst bedenken, dass die österreichische Nationalidentität erst in der Nachkriegszeit geboren wurde und es davor kaum jemanden bis keinen gab, der sich nicht gleichzeitig als Deutschen gesehen hat (ich will eure Souveränität hier nicht wie andere in Frage stellen). Bei BW und in Bayern gerade Franken wäre es noch viel schwieriger, denen die deutsche Identität auszutreiben, weshalb ich eher früher oder später von einem Zusammenschluss zu einem Deutschland ausgehen würde.

@AjimaruGDR Жыл бұрын

@@ArchsageCanas wahre Worte!

@stephenmarcus9601 Жыл бұрын

@@ArchsageCanas Austria was cheated after WWI & a merger with Catholic Germany would have been smart, but Hungary, too, would have been repeat imperialism. To this day, economically, it would be wise to merge Australia with Germany or Czech Republic

@milanlux03 Жыл бұрын

As a Hungarian i would say the same!

@jtgd Жыл бұрын

2:03 “I don’t wanna fly, so I’ll just tell them my doctor advises me to not take long trips” Picks up phone and tells operator to call his doctor, so he can force a sick note

@revan7383 8 ай бұрын

He just like me fr

@Judah132 Жыл бұрын

Funfact, most German states were created during the occupation of the Allies wich means that states like North Rhine-Westphalia or Lower Saxony are older than West Germany itself.

@francisdec1615 Жыл бұрын

Lower Saxony existed as an entity already in the 900s, but the name is new. Otto the Great came from there, but it was only called 'Saxony' then. It's called Lower Saxony today, because another state used the name Saxony, while Lower Saxony was in principle the state of Hannover.

@Judah132 Жыл бұрын

@@francisdec1615 Ancient Saxony was an independent entity in the past, but Lower Saxony is a rather newly founded subject of the former British Occupation Zone and a federal subject of Germany now. The name is definitely based on the Ancient Saxon peoples though, who generally evolved in becoming a part of the German nation.

@eljanrimsa5843 Жыл бұрын

Newcomers... Bavaria is older than even the HRE.

@Judah132 Жыл бұрын

@@eljanrimsa5843 That is true, however there has also been a Thuringian Lawcode wich existed around the same time when the Bavarian law code was established. Hesse however is the oldest mikrotop within Germany, if you exclude minitops (municipalities and cities).

@nicolasmarazuela1010 Жыл бұрын

Until this day the region of Rheinhessen, which belongs nowadays to Rheinland-Pfalz, is in many parts integrated in the state of Hessen 😂

@just_a_stickguy Жыл бұрын

But the british drawing borders has always ended well hasn’t it?

@cjclark1208 Жыл бұрын

Sure has, ended well for armament and manufacturing industries and untouchable nobility.. ack cough excuse me, notable uber wealthy families and politicians.

@jamesgarner327 Жыл бұрын

They still did a better job than the french, a frenchman.

@ronb5714 Жыл бұрын

Have the British done worse than other countries trying to do the same? A bad idea is a bad idea. Seeing a bad idea and saying “I blame Britain and will ignore the many other nations which did the same” is not an adult approach.

@hermask815 Жыл бұрын

In general the British draw the lines resulting in generating „troubles[*]“ on purpose. [*] even in their homeland.

@brutusthebear9050 Жыл бұрын

Usually that's because they ignore cultural and geographic borders, which is what ended up happening because they didn't follow Churchill's plans.

@julienpento3636 Жыл бұрын

Dividing a country by religion is the most british thing I every heard about.

@Borna958 Жыл бұрын

*Coughs in Balkan*

@davidanalyst671 Жыл бұрын

in this case, they were unifying a country by religion

@davidkermes376 Жыл бұрын

sad to say, dividing areas by religion does have some cynical sense to it. the problem is there are always "enclaves" left of minority groups who will be discriminated against and resented by the surrounding majority. if they are forced to migrate to new lands they will be seen as interlopers and will always retain a hunger to reclaim the homelands from which they were ousted.

@julienpento3636 Жыл бұрын

@@Borna958 [Coughs in Palestinian]

@scottmarquardt3575 Жыл бұрын

I have an aunt that ran out of Budapest with her family when she was 8 in 1956. Through landmines even! I think they might have been lugging gold because of how they all live in California, my uncle hasn't had an outstanding career.

@JaKingScomez Жыл бұрын

Ill do whatever it takes to get my hands on that Hungarian gold

@antonius1864 Жыл бұрын

Your videos are getting better and much more elaborate. I remember your earlier works, and there has been an incredible jump in quality! Keep it up!

@beslim15 Жыл бұрын

Very Enjoyable. Thank you!

@aleksanderkorecki7887 Жыл бұрын

He achieved the unimaginable and made worse Poland than Stalin.

@sakakaka4064 Жыл бұрын

Stalin's solution for Poland was the best possible outcome for the country.

@aleksanderkorecki7887 Жыл бұрын

@@sakakaka4064 No, it was a tragedy and a travesty. Over a million people forced to leave their houses for ruined and dangerous lands, others stuck in USSR or deported to Siberia. Great material and cultural losses. There was nothing good about that.

@sakakaka4064 Жыл бұрын

@@aleksanderkorecki7887 Those people would be forced out of their houses either way. Stalin just wanted Eastern Poland. Stalin's plan at least gave Poland the western territories.

@aleksanderkorecki7887 Жыл бұрын

@@sakakaka4064 Well, it was objectively bad to force them out of their houses and Stalin played vital role in this endeavour.

@user-dc9oq2pr6v Жыл бұрын

@@aleksanderkorecki7887 skill issue

@Clinton221087 Жыл бұрын

I'm about to download enlisted. Thank you for the recommendation.

@emolohtrab3468 Жыл бұрын

Awesome intro and concept, continue like that

@Cadence733 Жыл бұрын

FDR thought De Gaulle an autocrat? What did he think of Stalin then? 😂

@user-dc9oq2pr6v Жыл бұрын

Your mom is an autocrat

@emanuelpetre5491 Жыл бұрын

FDR was arguably more of an autocrat than De Gaulle

@hannesschwan6284 Жыл бұрын

so I’m a german, to be more precise a bavarian, from my point of view Churchills plan was actually a way more rational/logical one than all the others. It would have worked to split germany by cultural/religious borders way better than by the arbitrary ones eventually chosen and It would have prevented the soviets from taking a german state and rebuilding it to a puppet state. I would have preferred it.

@SamFromItalia Жыл бұрын

in my opinion Austria should have stayed a part of Germany but should have been blamed equally with their northern counterparts

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

I mean, there was no real competition. Morgenthau was just genocide with extra steps (he himself projected up to 40 Million people would starve from it), the French and Roosevelt's proposal was basically a restoration of the Germany from a century prior (which was well on its way to unification). Preventing reunification would have meant permanent occupation. And the division plan we got was initially supposed to be temporary but with the Allies quickly starting to infight, any further reforms or move to a more permanent solution was thwarted, which eventually got us the two Germanies we had.

@alo5301 Жыл бұрын

Nonsense. An Austrian.

@user-dc9oq2pr6v Жыл бұрын

You must be a jew or something based on this shit you just wrote

@borzix1997 Жыл бұрын

I'm Hungarian and I agree with you. This Federation on the Danube would've prevented hell a lot of sufffering. Plus it would've been economically successful, too.

@theChaosKe Жыл бұрын

Seeing these makes me wonder with what cruelty france would have come up with. Maybe Napoleon era borders lol

@riograndedosulball248 Жыл бұрын

France would have wanted to make Versailles look like children's play

@nunocbnunocb5875 Жыл бұрын

Precisely. In 1918 France forgot already how was treated in 1815, conserving mostly intact the territory pre-1789 and seating with the victorious Allies - UK, Austria, Russia, Prussia, Portugal and Spain - in Vienna, in similar level.

@klaus-peterborn1370 Жыл бұрын

Look at old maps and you will see that a third of France was part of Germany before. That is why the Germans hated the France in the past. Good that this times are gone.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

You play this as a joke but yes, pretty much. They wanted to establish the Rhine as their eastern border and some proposals even planned for taking the Ruhr valley. The Dutch had similar plans btw. The Rest of the country was supposed to be shattered into some kind of neo Confederation of the Rhine - all politically and economically dependent on France.

@lucaesposito6896 Жыл бұрын

They actively tried to annex Valle d'Aosta region in Italy 🤡

@MacBolzack Жыл бұрын

I like the format of this video, with the imagery and soundtracks etc.

@Shockprowl 10 ай бұрын

You, sir, are a True Historian. Diligent, utterly unbiased research into the finer points of history. Videos like this will endure for a long time among historians, both professionals and armchair (like me), who just want to find as closer path as possible to What Really Happened. Congratulations on a great video and a great channel, and thank you for all your hard work.

@fullcirclehistory Жыл бұрын

That proposed Austria-Hungary-Bavaria looks so cursed.

@countofsif Жыл бұрын

It might be worth to note, that Austria's independence after WWII was far from being popular at that time. In the end, many Austrians felt probably even more German, than some Bavarians. Also, the "Germans" from Sudetenland (ethnically mixed part of Bohemia) were technically more Austrian than German if you wanted to separate the two ethnical backgrounds. It's actually kind of interesting, how western allies thought about dividing Germany, but at the same time treated Austria as just another German state in most of their plans. What I am basically trying to say: There was a separation into 2 German states (+ Saar Protectorate as mentioned in the video), which makes the other proposals not too far-fetched. This all shows, how modern borders have come around more due to geo strategies, rather than cultural or historical reasons. It's such a bad joke towards Poland, that after all the suffering, a treaty between the Nazis and the Soviets (both of which were clearly not invited to come to Poland) remained valid.

@artystaar Жыл бұрын

Excellent work!!!

@josueveguilla9069 Жыл бұрын

Enlisted? Awesome. Thank you for the sauce, General Knowledge.

@rutger5000 Жыл бұрын

There was nothing weird about D'Gaule not being invited. It would have been really odd if he had been, and I'm confused why you even mentioned it.

@ronb5714 Жыл бұрын

France’s position was that of both an equal, and not. After the war, everyone claimed to be part of The Resistance. The reality was that most people weee not - and understandably so. The Free French are remembered as part of the Allies, but it was only relatively late in the war that FDR became convinced that they were a more useful ally than Vichy France. In the post-war era France was made an equal in imposing decisions that had been made without her (eg Responsibility for one of the four occupation zones), because Britain wanted to dilute American and Soviet power. De Gaulle obviously always wanted to be treated as an equal to the Big Three, but this was never the case. And whilst all of that is a sizeable aside, it makes the one-sentence inclusion in this video more than worth including.

@welshed Жыл бұрын

The French were lucky to be included at all. In any way. It would have been more appropriate to give part of Germany to the Poles. Rather than the French.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

@@welshed I mean, the Poles got a huge part of Germany - and unlike France, they even got to keep it permanently.

@todortodorov940 Жыл бұрын

de Gaulle supported the war effort and was the de-facto leader of the French government in exile. One thing is arguing if France "had done enough" in the war, but more French died than British or US Americans. But one thing is for sure: by not inviting him, he was forever skeptical of the US and the UK. He vetoed the UK out of the EU as long as he could and denying them influence. He took France outside of the normal NATO structure to avoid being bossed by the US. He defined France's future policies, where France will almost automatically abstain from supporting the US in any military operations (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc). Looking retrospectively, it may have been a good idea to invite him, at least for the UK and the US.

@uingaeoc3905 Жыл бұрын

@@welshed The Allies did give part of Germany to the Poles, what do you think the Oder-Neiser Line is?

@LordMarshyMan Жыл бұрын

That intro was so good!

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I really liked it too

@BlueDecember06 Жыл бұрын

I like how the intro has received a kinda nice glow up

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@mariajoaoferrazdeabreu150 Жыл бұрын

Congrats, very interesting video.

@majocountryballs9866 Жыл бұрын

As a czech I am sad that we accepted Munich agreement. Maybe if we fought we could get silesia back from germans...

@Glassius89 Жыл бұрын

It's a pity Poland and Czechoslovakia could not agreed with each before Munich.

@majocountryballs9866 Жыл бұрын

@@Glassius89 yeah, we fought for Cieszyn instead

@edelweiss7928 Жыл бұрын

Most sane Churchill idea

@offguy9939 Жыл бұрын

I love this new video format

@franklinsternberg4528 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful and very interesting video!

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@oliverstrahle Жыл бұрын

There's nothing particularly 'crazy' about putting the southern parts of Germany with Austria. I suppose throwing Hungary in there seems a bit strange to us now, but it probably came about from concerns about the viability of small states in central-Europe (which is why Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia existed).

@MXB2001 Жыл бұрын

Bavarians and Austrians apparently descend from the same Germanic Tribe. I agree.

@sebe2255 Жыл бұрын

It came about from Churchill wanting to keep Hungary out of the Soviet sphere lol

@florians.849 Жыл бұрын

It is really crazy... What would you think if an victorious Germany of ww1 in some alternative history decided to give Scotland to Ireland, make Wales independent and split up England along the borders of the heptarchy existing in the 5th to 8th century?

@Akitlosz Жыл бұрын

Churchill wanted as little Soviet influence in Europe as possible. Hungary, including Transcarpathia, would have been saved from communism with this plan. Confederation of the Danube country would have been sufficient for self-defense. Hungary would have supported this plan (if the country's constitution had been acceptable).

@florians.849 Жыл бұрын

@@Akitlosz On the back of the german society.. South Germany is the economic centre of the country. North Germany has basically as much induntry like an 3rd world country. Splitting up germany would break the spine of the germans... (On the other side who would miss the germans anyway...)

@123_1 Жыл бұрын

As a Hungarian, I believe we would have been better off, been part of that confederation... Synergies could have played well: German states were mostly industrial, Hungary was agrarian... I do not think they have tried to suppress or assimilate us, they knew they couldn't assimilate such a rebellious nation, so they wouldn't try... And remember: Austria-Hungary worked quite well...

@gaborjuracsik4847 Жыл бұрын

The martyrs of Arad are turning in their graves. Let's just say that I think your ideological group has been enthusiastically betraying the country.

@juliusrohrbach9115 Жыл бұрын

Back then these southern german states were more agrarian too, Bavaria became so productive because the Industry from Thuringia and Saxonia moved (mostly to Bavaria) after it found it that there was Russian control there, while there was American control in Bavaria. But I agree as a Swabian with a Hungarian wife, we would have made a great country! All these corruption issues, that the Soviets imported to Hungary would barely exist, and the hard working Hungarian people had less too complain about ;)

@marial870 2 ай бұрын

As a Slovak, Austria-Hungary did not work well. LOL. I will agree that probably any solution that would have kept us from enduring communism might have been better.

@davidduro974 Жыл бұрын

Great Video very Good work

@subtrippin Жыл бұрын

Love the new style of video

@bazsamester Жыл бұрын

As a Hungarian, I honestly love this plan

@gaborjuracsik4847 Жыл бұрын

As a Hungarian, I honestly hate this plan.

@bazsamester Жыл бұрын

@@gaborjuracsik4847 figyelj, így megmenekültünk volna a szovjet megszállás elől, és megtarthattunk volna pár korábban visszacsatolt területet is. Ez az új ország mára már valószínűleg felbomlott volna, és most akkor lenne egy független országunk, a magyarlakta területek egy része nálunk lenne, fejlettebb lenne az ország mivel a nyugathoz tartozott, és nem szenvedtük el a szocializmust se.

@gaborjuracsik4847 Жыл бұрын

@@bazsamester Mémet többség lett volna...Ennek ellenérvnek elégnek kell lennie, de ragozom egy kicsit. A németek hajlamosabbak az ideológiákra, míg a magyar nép igazából túlságosan cinikus ehhez, így ekkora területtel úgy, hogy bármikor leszavaznak szinte teljesen biztos belevittek volna minket valami hülyeségbe. Nem mintha eleve teljesen lehetetlenség az, hogy Szovjetunió határába legyünk úgy, hogy ténylegesen a kárpátoknál jól lehet védekezni. Se az USA, se a szovjet nem engedte volna meg ezt, és egyébként az Ukrán Banderistákat gyakorlatilag megszakítás nélkül finanszírozta az USA, ami világosan mutatja azt, hogy az egészet szétszedi a világpolitika. Ezt nem a jó értelemben értem. Aztán a gazdagság... Megvannak az okai annak, hogy miért fejlődhetett Nyugatnémet, mert a geopolitika ezt kívánta. Ausztria is semleges országként kirakatország volt, és ez megváltozik. Mivel a lényege ennek, hogy nem szovjet (miért is nem szovjet?), így nincsen olaj se. A szovjet fejlődést a hibás gazdaságpolitikán kívül alapvetően két dolog akadályozta. A 45 utáni időkben a fegyverkezés, utána meg az impexekkel csináltak szocialista vagyont. Ha ezek nincsenek mert nem vagyunk a szocialista blokkba, attól még kérdés, hogy éppen mit terveznek nyugaton. Mostanra már el kellene múlnia az illúzióknak. Egyébként meg egy tengerpart nélküli országról beszélünk, tehát nincsen esély arra, hogy az ország önmagától a világkereskedelem része legyen, hanem ez a szomszédoktól függ.

@Akitlosz Жыл бұрын

@@gaborjuracsik4847 Miért? Magyarországnak mindenképpen jobb lett volna. Megmenekült volna a kommunizmustól, megmaradt volna Kárpátalja Magyarországon, s egy ekkora országgal már nem mertek volna barátságtalankodni a kis entente szomszédok. Amennyiben pedig az alkotmányos keretek megfelelőek lettek volna, akkor az osztrákokkal és a németekkel is könnyű lett volna jól kijönni. akkoriban még sokkal több magyar beszélt németül, mint manapság, mindenki azt tanulta az iskolákban.

@gaborjuracsik4847 Жыл бұрын

@@Akitlosz Az osztrákok berángattak minket az 1. világháborúba, berángattak a 2. világháborúba, és lehet berángatnak a 3. világháborúba. Te meg üdvözlöd és optimista vagy azzal az állammal kapcsolatban, amelyben a német többség könnyedén leszavazhat minket. Nem értem az optimizmusodat. Kicsit más, a kommunizmussal kapcsolatban. Éppen a minap találkoztam egy osztállyal amelyikben a gyerekek támogatókat kerestek transz és kisebbségi témában. Mikor számon kértem őket, hogy ez identitáspolitika, és mint ilyen kommunista politikai aktivizmus, amelyet iskolai keretek között nem szabad végezni, akkor egyszerűen letagadták, hogy ez politika lenne. Ha egyszer szemmel láthatóan most is itt a kommunista aktivizmus, ha egyszer most is itt van a kommunizmus, akkor hogyan menekültünk volna meg ettől a felvázolt esetben?

@holykebabempire Жыл бұрын

"undediradoradodoridaradidoo" -Winston Churchill

@map_explainer Жыл бұрын

Amazing video

@tomasfuchs2730 Жыл бұрын

You might be interested to know that even Czechoslovakia, a state that existed in the grip between Germany and Austria, had its rather large territorial claims. Already after the occupation in 1939, the resistance organisation "Obrana národa"(Defence of the Nation) demanded a land corridor between Austria and Hungary to the Adriatic Sea. The northern part of the corridor would belong to Czechoslovakia and the southern part to the friendly Yugoslavia. Exiled President Benes, during a meeting in Moscow in December 1943, was challenged by Stalin himself to mark on a map the parts of Germany he claimed for post-war Czechoslovakia. Benes resisted. He claimed that he would be content with the Czechoslovakia within its pre-war borders, only wishing to "somewhat strengthen" the Kladsko region, which had historically belonged to the Kingdom of Bohemia. Stalin immediately assigned Kladsko to him. This area was later allocated to Poland and the Czech population was evicted. In February 1945, President Benes submitted a map of Czechoslovakia to the British Foreign Office with a proposal for post-war border adjustments. It envisaged ceding Cheb, Frýdlant, Rumburk, Broumov and the area between Javorník and Osoblaha to Germany, where a strong German minority lived, while the remaining border line of the Czechoslovak state was to be moved behind the mountain peaks into German territory. Southern Kladsko and large areas of Upper Silesia were to be annexed to Czechoslovakia. Beneš stressed that, measured by population, the proposed exchange of territory was disadvantageous for the Czechoslovakia. After the end of the Second World War, Czechoslovakia claimed the Reich-German territories outside the pre-Munich borders with at least 2,200,000 inhabitants, and the cession of some border districts was out of the question. It was believed that the moment had come for the expansion of the state's territory, that Czechoslovakia was an object of special favour with the Great Powers, thus repeating the same Czech delusion of the post-World War I era. The catalogue of territorial demands included Kladsko, the whole of Lusatia, the whole of Silesia, a "fair" border in the Šumava region, the areas along the river Saale, and it also included moving the Czechoslovak border to the left bank of the Danube from Regensburg to Bratislava. There was also a demand for the division of the whole of Austria between Czechoslovakia and Germany. In June 1945, when Beneš learned of these truly grandiose plans, mostly submitted through individual ministries, he warned the government, which was very much in favour of it, not to approve such plans "in the fever of victory", because he feared that greater territorial gains would complicate the internal situation of the state and burden relations with Germany or Austria in the future. Personally, he still did not rule out the possibility of giving up some districts to Germany. The situation eventually resulted in the expulsion of about 3 million people of German nationality, the loss of Subcarpathian Ukraine to the Soviet Union and the gain of three villages south of Bratislava at the expense of Hungary. From today's point of view, it was an absolutely insane time and insane solutions. If you would like to provide any further information, I can be at your disposal.

@jtgd Жыл бұрын

“So how about we take southern Germany, and merge it with countries bordering the Danube! It’s genius!” Borders it with Czechoslovakia and makes it look like worse border gore

@marcdigiambattista751 Жыл бұрын

Look what the British did to Africa and the Middle East. Those guys should never be allowed to take a drawing instrument anywhere near a map.

@mobiletaskforceepsilon1172 Жыл бұрын

@@marcdigiambattista751 I mean tbf those borders were only meant to be colonial borders for ease of administration and dividing the people, not national borders.

@matthiuskoenig3378 Жыл бұрын

Marc DiGiambattista why do you only blame the British for that when the french are just as much at fault. For example the British wanted a kurdistan but the french refused.

@mdyas1711 Жыл бұрын

Actually that's a pretty sane border. The entire border is the Carpathian Mountains, the weird one is Carpathian Ukraine as its on the opposite side of the range.

@rickjensen2717 Жыл бұрын

Excellent video! Stalin actually played Churchill and Roosevelt for mugs and got away with it, while his 'forces' ravaged and looted their way through eastern Europe. Churchill was also PM of the British Empire, about 1/4 of the Earth's surface, and not just the UK. The French were not invited mainly because of Stalin, who did not trust them as they signed a treaty with Hitler: Vichy also supported supported Hitler.

@MMerlyn91 Жыл бұрын

Why should have De Gaulle been allowed to go the conference? France shouldn't have been at the winning table anyway, the French "Resistance" wasn't the legimitate power, Vichy France was. Americans even tried to negotiate with Vichy officials.

@theotherohlourdespadua1131 Жыл бұрын

What "Vichy France"? That France died in 1943 when Case Anton was activated. For all intents and purposes, there is no French government after 1943 but De Gaulle's. And frankly speaking, De Gaulle has some legitimacy with being in that conference: he won that war against the Germans and France, whether you like it or not, is an important part of Washington's battle plan should the Soviets think of invading the West...

@MMerlyn91 Жыл бұрын

@@theotherohlourdespadua1131 De Gaulle and France didn't win anything other than forcing the liberation of Paris which delayed the Allied forces and inadvertently helped the Soviets occupy Berlin, keep living in dream world lol.

@todortodorov940 Жыл бұрын

Who wan the war? Or to be more precise, which country? And please elaborate on why you believe so?

@boomerix Жыл бұрын

The Danube Confederation would have been awesome.

@KGI_KlikoNL Жыл бұрын

Would have failed big times.

@koneofsilence5896 Жыл бұрын

I am still surprised that the Russian annexation of eastern Poland was not a topic in the end of war conferences - would have saved a lot of suffering

@Nikioko Жыл бұрын

It was a topic. Stalin insisted in keeping his part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop division, and both Churchill and Roosevelt agreed.

@ouwebrood497 Жыл бұрын

At that time Stalin was a 'good guy'. Only Churchill had a sense he could become troublesome. But Stalin played Roosevelt like a violin.

@koneofsilence5896 Жыл бұрын

@Craze depends on what maps you use If you look at one from about 1920 it's very much Poland

@Nikioko Жыл бұрын

@Craze It was the territories which were taken by Poland in the Russo-Polish War. I guess, Russia just took back what Poland annexed in 1920.

@pep-qew1977 9 ай бұрын

@@Nikiokowe try to take all lands we lost after partitions but we failed.

@tomgeisler1876 Жыл бұрын

As a Bavarian I would highly appeciate any form of state which includes the two brothers Austria and Bavaria.

@vasiliskeratsini Жыл бұрын

Or you prefer a unification of Germany and Austria?

@lucianboar3489 Жыл бұрын

@@vasiliskeratsini oh , I bet many Bavarians would like to get rid of the NRW and such and vice-versa.

@kwaobenti Жыл бұрын

And what would be the capital of this Austro-Bavarian state? Munich or Vienna? That might be a bit of an issue!

@lucianboar3489 Жыл бұрын

@@kwaobenti is the capital of the US New York or LA? Look at what was the capital of West Germany

@dreammeng6361 Жыл бұрын

I would ask you how you make those maps with the country you prefer.

@eurogirl25 Жыл бұрын

0:55 Love this intro!

@martinmuehlner1607 Жыл бұрын

This plan was crazy. But as a German and, by family's background, Prussian, I like the idea of 'keeping' Pomerania and Silesia rather than Bavaria in Germany.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

Technically, German Prussia came about from the combination of two territories: That of the Teutonic Order and that of the Margrave of Brandenburg. Brandenburg is still around and together with Berlin it keeps working on restoring aspects of Prussian culture that were destroyed by the East Germans and the Soviets. Berlin rebuilt the old City Palace, Potsdam the old Garrison Church which harbored the Hohenzollern family tombs

@jewi71 Жыл бұрын

And as a German from Baden I like the idea to be unified with Austria without Prussia 🙂

@ArchsageCanas Жыл бұрын

As someone from the Rhine, I support the idea of handing Bavaria to Austria even nowadays. Czechia or Poland can have Saxony if they want it. We'd even pay a lot for them to get that.

@henningbartels6245 Жыл бұрын

@@ArchsageCanas and probably Bavaria pays a lot that people from NRW can pay their bills today.

@m.s.8927 Жыл бұрын

@@henningbartels6245 Bavaria became rich at the expense of the rest of Germany so pay the fucking money and shut up.

@vusherman1125 Жыл бұрын

Churchill is making plan for germany* Marshall: you weren't supposed to do that

@senatethewinstonchurchill Жыл бұрын

I like this new video style.

@IdkIdk-mz3ij Жыл бұрын

Good job on the video, was very interesting, just one thing. THOSE WEREN'T NATIONS. Germany wasn't divided into nations, but rather states or countries. You see, those aren't different nations because all of them were based on a single nationality - germans. A nation and a country aren't the same thing. A nation is a group of people with a shared ancestry nationality wise and usually they also share a language that's exclusive to just their nation. Now the proposed german states wouldn't fit that criteria because all of them were based on the same nation - the germans, and so they're rather states and countries, not nations.

@brutusthebear9050 Жыл бұрын

Churchill's plan would have been a nation because South German (especially at this point) was a different nationality to North German.

@matthiuskoenig3378 Жыл бұрын

Except you can argue South Germany and North Germany are different nations as they have different cultures, language, history, religion, etc. Yes different langauges, Austro-bavarian is quite different or northern 'standard' German. It's entirely possible to have South German nationalism and pan-german nationalism. The existance of 1 does not discount the existance of the other.

@IdkIdk-mz3ij Жыл бұрын

@@matthiuskoenig3378You didn't understand what I was saying. You can argue that they are and aren't the same nation, because there is no single objective way to mark the distinction, and so it's futile to speak of in the first place. Secondly, as I said, language is irrelevant to all this, so is religion. Thirdly, I didn't say anything about cultures, that's your own adding. I also didn't say that south/north German nationalism can't co-exist together. You got the whole message mixed up. The most important part of the said is the context. My whole point is that he's using the term "nation" in the wrong context. He was talking about political borders, the means of which disregarded the nationality aspect. The states that were proposed would be satellites and not countries with the mere purpose of serving the nation. So the context (The whole meaning of what General Knowledge was saying) was implying the definition of state. And by the sheer amount of it's misusage, I figured that he didn't mix them up by accident, but rather he thinks that they are interchangeable. And it's definitely the case for the majority of people, so I wanted to educate you all on that.

@IdkIdk-mz3ij Жыл бұрын

@@brutusthebear9050 read the other reply for the main explanation, but no, I'm not saying that south germans are or aren't a separate nation, that's a whole other discussion, I'm saying that even if south germany fits the criteria, it's not thanks to the right reasons, the whole context infers to the term of state. all of the states would have to be separate nations for the term "nation" to be eligible.

@jmolofsson Жыл бұрын

@@IdkIdk-mz3ij you are right. A confederation would not have _created_ a nation. Native English speakers are often a bit sloppy with such distinctions. And we, who use the language as a lingua franca, may well know the difference in our native language. But even if we do, it's too easy to mix them up in English.

@rasmusronsholdt4511 Жыл бұрын

Andreotti is quoted saying that he liked the idea of Germany... Then adding as many as possible.

@eljanrimsa5843 Жыл бұрын

I think it could have worked. I am surprised that the map of his Confederation of the Danube includes Bozen (South Tyrol). That indicates it was made before Italy switched sides in 1943.

@mathiaspoelman1493 Жыл бұрын

I really think this plan could have turned out well in the long run. Perhaps Rupprecht of Bavaria could have become King of the Danubian Confederation, as he was an ally of the British before and during WW2. And after a few decades of separation, the Northern and Southern parts of Germany, along with the Rhineland, could have reunited. Essentially a German reunification as we saw it, but with more land and less expulsion of innocent German civilians. Hungary could have become independent and gotten Carpatho-Ukraine.

@jmolofsson Жыл бұрын

This plan wasn't bad. Was Bolzano maybe dominated by Germans? I can no longer remember where I read about this planned Danubian Confederation. Probably in one of the many books about Winston Churchill. Anyway, the passage in the book I read put languages and ethnicities at the forefront. There I got the impression that *_Trieste_* was included in this Danubian Confederation (“because” Trieste was multi-ethnic with Italians, Slovenes and Germans). But not so on the map here. Perhaps my memory is wrong. Or maybe there was more than one version of this British plan.

@julianton3340 Жыл бұрын

Germans with Hungarians… What a nonsense! Totally different cultures and languages.

@jmolofsson Жыл бұрын

@@julianton3340 ... but geografically mixed. Think of Transsylvania. A Confederation with two official languages would have caused less problem because there lived both Hungarians and Germans all over the place. Compare Finland for a somewhat similar situation with a dispersed minority, and coincidenctally the same combination of an indo-european and a fenno-ugric language. If Swedes in Finland can learn Finnish, then Germans in Hungary would be able to learn Hungarian.

@TheOneHumanDino Жыл бұрын

mind me asking but what was the music used in the intro segment?

@JJ-ml9sj 6 ай бұрын

smooth sponsor transition, Mr. Draper :)

@vratislavotakar9467 Жыл бұрын

Hello, I didn´t watched the whole video, but I can confirm that originally Germany was supposed to hand over only Upper Silesia to Poland, Your map is right. It was said that the river Neisse would be a border river and was not explained which Neisse was in mind. Churchill ment Glatzer Neiße, but Stalin ment Lusatian Neisse. It gave more territory to Poland than planed before.

@HHHH-ur6yk Жыл бұрын

As a south German I would approve this idea actually

@JamesHall-hj5hc Жыл бұрын

Still think this is better than what we got

@a.g.5922 Жыл бұрын

Can you make a Video to Kaufmanns Plan, Hooton Plan, Nizer Plan ?

@Normal_Boii Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure he was drunk when he made this plan

@todortodorov940 Жыл бұрын

Of course he was drunk. He was drunk from the age of 16 until his death. The only thing that varied is: "how drunk".

@lilricky296 Жыл бұрын

As Austrian id love a austian-hungary-bavaria nation

@KGI_KlikoNL Жыл бұрын

Will not stand a chance. Austria/Bavaria/Bayern, is to do. But including Hungary it will fail. This because of differences (like language, cultural, etc). As save example, Belgium. No one in Belgium and around it (Netherlands, Luxembourg) will be suprised if they split up one day as Flanders and Wallonia are different (language/culture). Flanders wants to be their own country and France even already once said to not mind adopting Wallonia if they ask to join it after a Belgium breakup.

@bleep8048 Жыл бұрын

Ive been watching fairly regularly over a year and i just got that the ferb looking avatar is supposed to be a General named knowledge, thats really clever.

@maninredhelm Жыл бұрын

I think Churchill's plan was to build states strong enough to resist Soviet influence, with that last little Ukrainian chunk intended to provide the Danube Confederation with a more easily defended mountain border.

@hungarianspectator6847 Жыл бұрын

No wonder why the borders of old Hungary were the Carpathian mountains. Those are pretty easy to defend. Even the Red Army couldn't break through those lines fortified by the Hungarian Army and military engineers in the Eastern Carpathians during WW2.

@KGI_KlikoNL Жыл бұрын

Why they gave Sud-Tyrol to Italy at end of WW1 as the mountain ridge with high passes and in winter only Brenner usable, were easier to defend. Why the Elsas were given to France in WW1 as the Rhine river was easier to defend.

@connormclernon26 Жыл бұрын

Winston was probably really drunk when he came up with this one. The man had a 1000 ideas a day, 5 were utter brilliance the likes of which the world had never seen before, the rest were dumpster fires. No in betweens.

@edelweiss7928 Жыл бұрын

Name one "brilliant" idea Churchill had, he was a stubborn drunk fool, nothing more

@todortodorov940 Жыл бұрын

Morgenthau hated Germans and wanted to destroy their industry and their future. Stalin hated the Nazis (and virtually everybody, including own citizens) and wanted to take a chunk of their territory. Churchill wanted to destroy any empire that may rival his - but as a war reparations, he wanted to loot Germany for every bottle of high quality cognac or brandy he could get his hands on.

@philippevalois381 Жыл бұрын

It was a really good idea!

@krisztiankalman5805 Жыл бұрын

Churchill wrote in his memoir that dividing up the Habsburg empire was a big mistake. Hitler was able to make the dominos fall one by one - and he expected Stalin would do the same after WW2 thus rushing down the Balkans and perhaps capture the Bosporus. Churchill "convinced" exile governments to enter into agreements that after the war Poland and Czechoslovakia would form a confederacy and the same in the Balkans with Yugoslavia and Greece. Following his meeting with Roosevelt in Casablanca he flew to Adana to meet the Turkish leadership. He envisioned a plan (1) Türkiye should form an anti-communist pact (2) Hungary and Romania should come to an agreement about Transylvania (3) as soon as the Red Army got in the vicinity of the Carpathian Mountains, Germany was expected to begin the withdrawal from the Balkans (4) At this point the Turkish army would enter Bulgaria unopposed and rush northwards trailing the Germans (5) The Hungarian army would hold the Carpathians, while the Romanian army would hold the line of the Danube and prevent the Red Army from entering the Balkans until the Turks reached these countries (6) British paratroopers would land in Hungary and probably Romania to ensure "allied liberation" of these lands thus robbing Stalin the reason to enter them. So... Churchill might have been a great orator, but he was completely out of touch with reality. He thought he can handle these countries as Lego pieces - combining them at his whim. So yeah, Churchill and his crazy plans.

@LukeBunyip Жыл бұрын

11:46 Cue "The Third Man"

@phenolicphtl5011 Жыл бұрын

British's best border writing:

@milanlux03 Жыл бұрын

Churchill's plan wasn't that crazy and stupid at all.

@thomasllewelynjones5546 4 ай бұрын

Okay so Churchill’s plan wasn’t even the craziest here, Morgenthau’s was absolutely bonkers!

@jankopecky8227 Жыл бұрын

Hmmm great that no-one seemed to consider returning Carpathian Ukraine to Czechoslovakia to which it originally belonged before the Soviets annexed it after CZ was dismantled by her “allies”.

@pep-qew1977 9 ай бұрын

I think it was to cut of CS from USSR

@Vijay1989 Жыл бұрын

Churchill was a war criminal who escaped judgement.

@matthiuskoenig3378 Жыл бұрын

The Austrians and hungarians did try to reunify before ww2 but were blocked by nabouring powers so it's likely Churchill wanted to join them together to create a semi-supported stronger southern state.

@jmolofsson Жыл бұрын

The Hungarians were bitter over Trianon. Maybe Churchill felt some sympathy? Maybe he even saw the Trianon peace treaty as an error?

@richardsimms251 Жыл бұрын

Very well made program

@NickCC23 Жыл бұрын

The Potsdam conference had Truman take over for FDR (who had died) and halfway through Clement Attlee take over for Churchill (defeated in the UK election).

@babamukuru666 Жыл бұрын

Honestly, Churchill's plan isn't even that crazy if you think about it, at least this country would have had some connective tissue by mixing the somewhat coherent parts of Austria-Hungary with the culturally close-ish Bavaria. The Morgenthau Plan on the other hand would just have meant the creation of a state somewhere between Mao's Great Leap China and modern day Somalia in central Europe...

@thebookwasbetter3650 Жыл бұрын

What I take away from the West's handling of Germany after WWII is that we actually learned something from the failure of the Treaty of Versailles. We also applied this logic to our relationship with Japan after WWII. It erked a lot of people who suffered but was the right decision for the long run.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

Thing about revenge is, it gives the perpetrator an excuse to feel like the victim and lash out again - causing a cycle of mutual violence. With the way Germans were treated after the war, most of them had absolutely no excuse to victimize themselves.

@ruas4721 Жыл бұрын

@@Exodon2020 Tell this the refuges in the east ...

@sebe2255 Жыл бұрын

But, the treatment of Germans was much harsher post ww2 than post ww1. Millions of them were ethnically cleansed from Eastern Europe and Prussia, and they lost 1/3rd of their lands and were directly occupied by foreign powers for years.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

@@ruas4721 As I said: "most" - and the abhorrent treatment the expulsed people faced by the people who were moved to their lands proved a major hinderance in normalizing post-war relations - because in West Germany these refugees were a major voter demographic and any move towards accepting the Oder-Neiße Line would have meant losing the next election.

@danielzhang1916 Жыл бұрын

Versailles was a failure because of the war guilt and reparations, which made WWII inevitable later on, because a lot of Germans were angry at the humiliation they received

@tomas_silva07 Жыл бұрын

Cool intro🤩

@timeflysintheshop Жыл бұрын

I thought Yalta was on the sea of Azov near Berdyansk and Mariupole? I will have to check this out later.

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

There are apparently two Yaltas... Not that unusual. Germany has two Frankfurts, with another one in Kentucky, USA. Also, about every single US state has at least one iteration of Springfield.

@andressorin1205 Жыл бұрын

@@Exodon2020 this is the less known Yalta: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta,_Donetsk_Oblast

@gravballemandendk Жыл бұрын

its a crime that Denmark did not get its historical border back, in sleswig. Danevirke should be on danish hands again.

@shadowfighter8861 Жыл бұрын

Too harsh peace terms lead to a radicalisation. If Germany was partitioned more, nazism may have continued to exist in the peoples mind. Do you want to prove again that third time's the charm?

@kralikkral5560 Жыл бұрын

As German citizen (Bavaria) I think this plan was quite good. The Danube states have more in common than nowadays Northern and Southern Germany, which are totally different in culture, religion etc.

@vernicejillmagsino9603 2 ай бұрын

Brazil is similar to Germany north and south there race is different while Germany is religion the southern states of both countries have similar in cultures both whites and Catholics

@rolfjacobson833 Жыл бұрын

great again

@thomasjorge4734 Жыл бұрын

Prussia and Austria, no Germany?

@Awfulartist Жыл бұрын

i like the other two plans more if not because it meant less expulsions

@Gerotzried Жыл бұрын

Today entire Germany is a so called International Zone.

@marciboyyy 2 ай бұрын

💀💀

@Gerotzried 2 ай бұрын

@@marciboyyy Uhhhh☠️🩻

@tom-qv2fe Жыл бұрын

0:23 "field martian" lmao

@rpadair 11 ай бұрын

“Sorry Franklin, I can’t go to a neutral venue, doctor’s orders.” “No problem Joe, I’m literally at death’s door but we’ll have it in Crimea if that’s what you want, champ.”

@SkiddingMonster Жыл бұрын

Great video. One small addition: the word root "Slav" is translated as (roughly) "fame" or "glory", and has a number of derived words, such as: "slava" = fame, "slavnyi" = nice, great. The Slav people are called "Slavyane". (Examples are from Russian)

@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын

The root meaning is "Word" and "Fame" is only a derivative as talking about someone had been equated to fame. It basically denotes people of a common language, which is largely linguistically correct. Slavic languages are technically just different dialects of a common language and still after even centuries highly intelligible between each other. This is even more obvious when you take note of the fact that Germans are called universally Niemcy in slavic countries - literally "people without a language".

@Anti-Putinist 5 ай бұрын

@@rosomak8244нет, как носитель русского языка, напишу вам, мы не понимает примерно четверть написанного и сказанного носителями других славянских языков

@MichaEl-rh1kv Жыл бұрын

From a South German perspective the Churchill plan would not be been so bad. Especially the Bavarians would have liked it, but also many Swabians and Badians. The Austrians however would maybe not been so happy with it in the long term, because Bavaria and Munich would have become the heart of it, not so much Vienna. Even if Bavaria was at that time still a rather rural region and no economic powerhouse at all, but it would have sit in the middle between industrial Württemberg and old Austria, having the bulk of the population. (Hungary would have left the confederation as fast as possible.) The Rhinelanders and especially Adenauer would have hated it and demanded a Confederation of the Rhine and Danube, excluding Northern and Eastern Germany. An "international zone" however would never have worked but led to similar opposition like the French Ruhr politics after WW I (which was one of the factors helping the Nazis win power).

@muhammadhabibieamiro3639 Жыл бұрын

Can you talk more about the Propesed treaty that the allies have for germany

@victortisme Жыл бұрын

My boy desperately trying to reach his word count, with the video effectively starting at 9:32 Also why is Südtyrol only included half the time?

@williamrubinstein3442 Жыл бұрын

It wasnt crazy. It was a very good idea.

@DavidJashi Жыл бұрын

I can think of the country we need to apply this experience... In its case, it is even easier - they have internal administrative borders already, like Tatarstan, Sakha and Baskorkostan.

@gotthelfschwab1272 Жыл бұрын

Actually Churchills plan has a similarity to the historical territory of the Habsburg Monarchy especially for parts of south-western Germany which was once Vorder-Österreich. So the division between north and south Germany would have been in my eyes as a southern German actually much more favorable than the splitting of North-Gerrmany, as the North Germans actually are sort of relatively more obnoxious to me than the rest - mostly because of how they speak the german language and force us southerns to speak it their way to. I actually hate to be in the same Germany with them since my whole life

@julianwelz5694 Жыл бұрын

Hochdeutsch ist doch viel eher Oberdeutsch als Niederdeutsch. Das Hochdeutsche ist durch die zweite Lautverschiebung entstanden, genau wie alle oberdeutschen Dialekte. Die niederdeutschen haben die i.A. nicht mitgemacht. Bekannteste Beispiele sind nd. maken versus obd. machen und nd. Appel versus obd. Apfel.

@TheRavenLord1 Жыл бұрын

The saddest part, splitting of Germany and Austria.

@derdude6214 Жыл бұрын

I think it was a big mistake denying the unification after the first WW. I 100% understand the reason of not making Germany even stronger than before the war but it really showed the hypocrisy of the "self-determination of people". Nowadays that's of the table. Austria is just a completely different country. They speak for most high German speakers almost unrecognizable accent and their culture is like every stereotype about Germans ×2. Like Bavaria².

@archstanton6102 Жыл бұрын

That was the saddest part? Not thr millions of deaths in WW2 caused by Germany?

@typiclyjohny5114 Жыл бұрын

@@derdude6214 its not like we have allways talked in dialects just like our brothers all over Germany

@nmz6258 Жыл бұрын

@@derdude6214 In my Opinion the Austrians are our Brothers. Austrian Culture is almost the same than south Bavaria and Württemberg. Most of them are perfectly capable to speak High German. We should be one state!

@sniperman3110 Жыл бұрын

@@nmz6258 Just like the Swiss are our brothers too! And tbh when you move from Germany to Austria you are not a foreigner, to be fair, hardly one from Europe is considered that anymore but nonetheless. Lets see it as a friendly competition of different systems that are very similar culturally.

@genghiskhan5701 Жыл бұрын

Forgot to mention the role that the exiled Habsburgs played in all of this

@General.Knowledge Жыл бұрын

I didn't know about that! What was their role?

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

@@General.Knowledge Look up Otto von Habsburg. You'll be in for a ride.

@firstcynic92 Жыл бұрын

0:24. "Field MARTIAN Sir Alan Brooke"???

@markauditor7873 Жыл бұрын

splitting Germany would probably only have caused more resent and created another world war

@Exodon2020 Жыл бұрын

Don't know if a divided Germany could have escalated tensions to that point but ongoing insurgency could have made further occupation a pain in the ass. With Churchill's plan I still kinda see a way for peace though. Morgenthau's proposal on the other hand was just flat-out vile. Not so much the division itself but rather the economic measures accompanying it.