EVEN MORE SPOILERS WHY DID YOU CLICK REPLIES IF YOU HAVENT WATCHED. But if you forced me to pick just ONE as a Game of the Year candidate it would be: Game 3 (but Game 1 & Game 4 are very close for very different reasons, very hard to pick but Game 3 could not have been more action packed).

❤

I'm lazy but if you want here's a free idea: Dirty Harry (possibly with protoss face) holding a bunch of disruptors in his hand, pointing them down at a bio ball, saying "You're thinking, did he fire six shots or only five?"

Well i see only a suferring protoss :D

was that the best use of apm at the time? probably not. was it a great show for us? absolutely

If i try that instead of dodging i would end miss-timing everyhing and eating every shot in the face

When i boot up a custom game on slow, micro my heart out and then watch the replay at 2x speed I’m still not even close to that level of micro xD

I really love the super available gold 3rd that quickly turns into a big glowing 'hit me here' spot later in the midgame. Worried about how zergies defend it though...

Yeah it just sucks how zerg basically can’t play on it, but super fun to watch TVP there

Came to the comments just for this!!

We have transcended dignity.

Made my day just a little bit better tbh.

No this is winter

Ironically, it makes me forget to like the videos when I'm laughin about the intros

The problem is when there is a big enough bio ghost ball, no ground toss unit out-damage the medivac healing except the disruptor. This is the crux of the matchup as of the moment. I am waiting for some ground toss buff

The problem also comes from vikings (and corruptors). They can be make fast with reactor, cost only 2 supplies and when they are out, protoss have no choice but to go templars and disruptors because they are countering everything else.

More buffs? So basically you're saying buff toss until clem loses, bec there were games he was outplaying maxpax (w better understanding of late game) and still was close to losing!!

protos don't require buff, it's the terran which require nerfs

Disruptors were a mistake. They gotta be the most cancerous and worst designed unit in RTS history ever, and they dont even really work at the top level as showcased here. They gotta go. Then nerf the EMPs shield damage and work from there.

not really anything *counters* viking/lib/ghost per say. you can technically trade with ghosts using disrupters and zone the vikings with storm. And if you’re successful, oracle revelations and tempests to chip away at libs. but it is incredibly difficult to do (esp compared to viking stutter) and once the viking/lib count get this high they can just sorta steamroll toss anyways. It really doesn’t help that tempests/rupters are insanely supply intensive, expensive, and slow to produce while libs/vikings can be reactored out fast

Adding to what already said person above me, Toss really needs only tempest to siege the libs. You don't need to go carriers. You are supposed to stay at ground and zone with storm. But good luck with that when terran casually runs 15 ghosts in their army. Carriers work as a suprise switch. If they have ghost marauder with libs, and you suddenly attack with 6-8 carriers, you can just win the game. Clem spotted the transition tho...

Thanks for the replies. Your qualifiers still underscore the problem - there isn’t truly a counter that can be produced as quickly and at the same cost, both in terms resources and supply. Something has to be adjusted to achieve better balance

Yeah I was thinking, what is the pro level skill ceiling of Protoss? I would say Blink stalker micros but that only impacts the early to mid game and the then Disruptors. While Terran can do so much with marine marauder micro alone. Also the fact that there are no other options for Protoss to go with after the initial 3 one time use Collosus, once 4-5 Vikings are out. And then you can just continue Viking production if the Protoss was given enough time to build Skytoss.

if you watch PIGs commentary of the series he talks about how much having templars with some storm would have helped against those clumped up marine bio. Btw MaxPax is not at Clem's level (esp late game), at some point you can't blame the game but it have to come down to skill. Because the only way to satisfy the balance whiners is only if the other person they like wins. Hero 2-0 Maru in GSL last Thursday, he also beat Byun (who had way more supply) from a insane comeback that pre-patch would have lost. Clem has to have full attention, insane micro to dodge those disruptor shots, I think Maxpax would of beat any other Terran, it's just Clem is similar to Serral (obv Serral is better) in that his skill will make the race look op. Also asking these questions after the patch is only 1-2 week old w new maps isn't fair but we are seeing Hero playing really well w the new patch. Maru and Byun are no joke and he defeated them

@@jameslog3431 again with the storm argument, being countered by the strongest unit in game, Ghost. I'm not saying you are wrong, by most players in the ladder, I think that is the correct answer. But at the highest level, I think going into Storm is like having the same problem of going Collosus, but in my opinion, worse than having Collosus. You need to get a good Storm not just once but the counter, Ghost, just need to land once and suddenly you got no Storm AND your units is damaged. And then after that if you are lucky you get your Archon refund, if they are not just a meatballshield infront. I'm not complaining as a player, because I think as a low rank random player, the game is somewhat balanced. But I am complaining on the pro scene especially PvT is such a slog to watch no matter who you rooting for. It just comes down to Disruptor shots or EMP. Well I at least enjoy early to mid game PvT especially when Terrans doing tank pushes or widow mine drop, this to me is the peak skill expression on both ends.

@@limbalicious Ghosts are not the strongest unit in the game anymore, and its copium to keep saying it. Infestor/Vipers contend with each other for that spot now.

@@elgar7252 Ghost literally counter all protoss units. While having no solid counters to use from the toss after you get 6+. Especially when it comes to ultra lategame, when terran have infinite scan, and keep killing your observers. Ghost dont just hardcounter high templar or sentry. They soft counter all protoss units that have shields (wich is all, including buildings). Thats why theyr made at a standard timing, instead of reactionary versus heavy high templar or sentry play. Ghost should be countered by collosi, not by disruptor. Ghost should have the light tag, so they actually die to collosi. (or collosi should do more damage to all unit types) And protoss needs a better anti air unit then expensive low dps high in supply requirment stalkers. Something that actually counters mass vikings properly (like storm used to do before ppl started learning howto EMP)

The biggest conception error of this game.

Every game with Dark is the game of the year.

@alltat I get what you're saying friend. But did you watch it where he had a single infestor left and made the protoss self delete his remaining forces with their own tempest? It exhausted the whole map. There were swarm hosts. Everything. Pure distilled chaos of a match.

which game? Plz!

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gs2cmNOB1srHoWw.htmlsi=3uHUi1vsIjaHwUB8

I'm with @@Solaris0071! Anyone have a link?

because screw terran units, they imba

@@Conquistador2161No, Protoss is just weak - Zerg is imba.

In my opinion: Disruptor to counter ghost and bio, Storm and archons against air units, oracles for revelation, Carrier for dps, Tempest for zoning and Mothership for recall mobility. Furthermore, I think the main problem for Toss is EMP, which is instant 100 damage that cannot be dodged and nullifies storm.

@@schach6666 Ghosts, Ghosts, Ghosts. Medivacs counter disruptors anyways I mean you're not wrong that that's the best you got as protoss, but it's like going out to eat and all you can afford is mac & cheese. If you could have something better you'd get it

The mental energy used by Clem to controll Terran is x2 x3 more the MaxPax or most players of this tier. If Clem would play Protoss at this overdrive rate, he would destroy almost everyone. Protoss is too easy even for high tier, they don't sweat enough for this victories and complain that protoss is weak at pro scenes because they used to win easy everytime. It's funny that Reynor casually switched to protoss few times and how suddenly he looks better then most protoss. Terran is very strong but in a practice, simple people of all leagues, can't have mental resources to controll it. Geniuses like Clem Maru Inno etc. are not birth everyday

@@defendermd2991You basically saying that Clem, Maru or Innovation like to lose tons of money playing a clearly inferior race, when they just could switch race and win basically everything.

@@defendermd2991 If Clem would play Protoss, his name would be MaxPax.

​​​@@defendermd2991 yeah, cool. It, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that starting with the first tank push, protoss is constantly on the back foot in combat power compared to terran. This is such a ridiculous and arrogant claim, that all the protoss pro gamers are just not good enough. Gateway army of protoss isn't capable of fighting terran barracks army which is what the first timing attack of terran is all about. The tech transition into colossus gives protoss like a 3-4 minute of respite until terran gets 6-7 vikings at which point collosuses become one time use. The disruptors are the only somewhat reliable way to go into mid/lategame for protoss. And what is the transition for terran? A better marine with the ability to instantly half the health of an army. A zoning flier versus disruptors. On top of the fact that tanks are still good, and all the barrack units are still strong. And I am not even talking about the fact that one of the main cornerstones of a proper lategame protoss army is UNUSABLE, it literally doesn't exist in PvT. Spellcaster comparison is also funny. A barely moving, balloon shooting old man that has to wait to deal damage and click to exhaust mana and can combine with another old man to be killed faster than a probe. vs a ... Ghost, the best unit in the whole game. Yeah, tell me about how terrans are just better. Protoss don't complain about zerg and Serral plays zerg btw.

@@BoxCox don't reply to defendermd2991. They are either a troll or have as bad of takes as a troll. Not worth the time or effort.

Disruptor nova is one of the fastes things in game. Only speedlings, chargelots and interceptors move faster.

@@skipperg4436 IDK man every terran unit seems to be faster according to this video

@@davidbai3543 you can check speed of units in liquipedia. In the game Clem starts to run fron disruptor shots long in advance, and you can see how still nearly every shot manages to kill some of his units. It is also worth mentioning that disruptors outrange siege tanks.

Protoss is underpowered

I mean, technically a way to beat it would be storm... But good luck with 15 ghosts on the field.

Would the old fast void rays have worked? Or would we have to get the campaign style void rays that chained their beams through multiple units for them to be effective?

@@ryanaegis3544 i think current voids with speed could work, IF they were less expensive and had less supply. 4 supply is an overkill. But then again, enough libs with a raven beats them too...

Its because Winter casts games of just

@@skipperg4436 TvP 40% winrate for T tends to disagree. Also ofc the best protoss player rolls over people who are not in the top 10

@@benismann this game was from ESL weekly. Nearly every time the finals are between Clem, MaxPax or Reyonr. What do you think happens with other players? Also, its not like Clem always wins. While he is on a win streak against him right now, MaxPax also won fair share of games vs Clem. Not too long ago he 3-0 him. If Clem is not around than MaxPax is most likely to win the cup.

I think both them and HT could use a movement speed bonus so they don't get left behind by army and can manouver better.