World War II: Mark Clark at the Rapido, January 1944

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World War II: Mark Clark at the Rapido, January 1944

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Күн бұрын

Join Cody as he considers U.S. General Mark Clark's military performance at the Rapido River in January 1944.
Rick Atkinson, "The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily & Italy, 1943-1944"
Larry I Bland, "The George C. Marshall Papers"
Martin Blumenson, "The Patton Papers, 1940-1945"
Martin Blumenson, "Mark Clark"
Martin Blumenson, "Bloody River: The Real Tragedy of the Rapido"
Alfred Chandler, "The Eisenhower Papers"
Mark W. Clark, "Calculated Risk"
Dwight D. Eisenhower, "Crusade in Europe"
Lee Carraway Smith, "A River Swift and Deadly: The 36th "Texas" Infantry Division at the Rapido River"
Fred L. Walker, "From Texas to Rome: Fighting World War II and the Italian Campaign with the 36th Infantry Division
Additional Research Conducted at:
The National Archives at College Park, MD
The U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, PA
The National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO
The Eisenhower Library in Abilene KS

Пікірлер: 68

@francisebbecke2727 Жыл бұрын

I am from TX and saying anything good about Mark Clark was a felony while I was growing up.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Ha! I’ll bet.

@jamesmurray9347 2 жыл бұрын

Great insight. Grandfather was with the 141st 2nd Battalion TS Al Russell. Heard first hand account. He was commended for Meritorious Service. I plan on visiting the sight next spring.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

God bless him.

@keithr9640 2 жыл бұрын

Excellently done. My father was one of the lucky survivors of the Rapido River. What little he would say about it was chilling.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

God bless him. Glad he made it out of there. Did he tell you his opinion of Clark?

@keithr9640 2 жыл бұрын

Not specifically. He did say “ The leadership in that fiasco should have been shot”. So I guess I know his opinion without him naming names.

@michaelplanchunas3693 4 ай бұрын

I would love to have you examine Bradley's numerous blunders in the ETO from D-Day to May 8th, 1945. They could fill a book.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 4 ай бұрын

I actually wrote one of my chapters in my dissertation on Bradley’s mistakes. May do a video on that someday. Thanks.

@Lone_Star_Proud Жыл бұрын

My dad was awarded a Silver Star at Rapido with the 141st

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a great guy.

@johnschuh8616 Жыл бұрын

Where is your dad buried?

@michaelwright8092 Жыл бұрын

Lytton Springs, Texas cemetery

@stephensmith5982 Жыл бұрын

I must agree with you that General Clark seemed to have not had sufficient concern for the soldiers of the 36th division, in ordering this assault. He should have listened to his subordinate field commanders and the weather and terrain conditions.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

He shouldn’t have been put in command of a field army to begin with.

@davidrichey6890 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic presentation. My granddad fought under Clark in the 88th Infantry Division. I have been piecing together various information to chronicle his journey through Africa and Italy. This is a great addition to what I’ve found. My grandfather, Warren G. Hilburn, actually named his son (my uncle) Mark after Gen. Clark. Even though he has been exposed as an incompetent leader, this shows me that these men still had to have confidence and respect for their leaders. You HAD to believe in the people in charge if even just for your own morale.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing.

@johnschuh8616 Жыл бұрын

Eisenhower probably saved Clark’s ass. Interesting that Devers had a poor relationship with Ike, and had been kicked up to figurehead position. So nothing he said about Clark would be listened to, just as Ike would not listen to Devers when he and other commanders suggested sending the 7th army into southern Germany. With Eisenhower’s dispositions of supplies, of course, probably too little was available to support anything but sending the 7th army north to support the 3rd Army. However, the thing is how personal relations can have such impact. It can make the brass defend and promote a poor commander. and sideline good commanders.

@nowthenzen 6 ай бұрын

it seems to me that the Rangers and FSSF deployed at Anzio as line infantry would have been much better used for night time infiltration across the Rapido to be followed up by regular units. Surely this would have freed up a regiment or even brigade sized unit to take their place at Anzio.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 5 ай бұрын

Good point.

@williamgarcia-medina9989 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing presentation.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@cybertronian2005 3 ай бұрын

Interesting analysis and it would be good to complete the trilogy with a video on the capture of Rome. I'm confused as to why Clark would need to access top secret Ultra intelligence in order to find out how the British on the Garigliano sector were progressing though? Wouldn't there have been more direct ways he could have found out

@garydillon3960 Жыл бұрын

My dad was in this battle and spent 2 years in the hospital. Clark was wrong and should have waited. Clark should have been court martialed

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Agreed. At the very least relieved.

@blainelongjohn4210 2 жыл бұрын

Great dissertation on Clarke, seen multiple programs noting Clarke as incompetent. Just found both of your channels and I dig them both

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a ton. Glad you enjoy them.

@blainelongjohn4210 2 жыл бұрын

@@codycarlsonph.d.5591 No thank you sir for the free history lessons

@leejamison8436 5 ай бұрын

It would be well worth knowing how many of the "missing in action " from Rapido River are still so listed. Corps command had no incentive to get to the bottom of how many of those were really KIA, and in 1946 General Walker still had no accounting for a resolution of a number that at that time stood at 923 or so just for the 143rd.. Total losses to the 36th at Rapido- losses squarely down to the ineptitude of Mark Clark- probably exceeded those at Pearl Harbor.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 5 ай бұрын

Good point.

@phillipsmith4814 2 жыл бұрын

Mark Clark was an ambitious ego manic who should have never commanded anything larger than a battalion so as to minimize the number of soldiers he could get killed. He excelled at sucking up to get promoted. He makes Patton look like a humble monk in comparison, but without the leadership and tactical competence. In addition to the congressional investigation of the Rapido River attack, I thought that the 36th Div veterans sued Clark in court. No? On the other hand there were too many layers of command in Italy, a study of which, would make for a great master’s thesis.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

I don’t know if that I agree about the “layers of command,” but everything else is spot on.

@johnschuh8616 Жыл бұрын

Plus the inevitable problems that go with an allied operation. The British were in a difficult position. Although in theory it was a British area. they had to defer to the Americans more and more.

@ciscoterres717 2 жыл бұрын

I see that “Eisenhower nicknamed him (Mark Clark) the American Eagle.”

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

I believe Churchill gave him that moniker.

@thenevadadesertrat2713 7 ай бұрын

Clarks biggest problem was Kesselring. With limited resources and no resupply he managed to keep the Allies and Clark at bay for many months. An argument can be made that it tied up German resources. It tied up far more Allied resources, and casualties that could have been avoided.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 7 ай бұрын

Kesselring was certainly one of the greatest defensive generals of the war.

@syme9925 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative. The audio seemed a little off. Perhaps more echo than usual? A little less on the bass end?

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

Huh? Don’t know what it could be.

@MansourReviews 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Cody, excellent, as usual. Let me ask this questio though, towards the end of the video, when discussing how clark knew that the Germans were moving the two divisions away from Rome, as he knew of the British Ultra Intercepts, therefore rendering the Rapido crossing unnecessary. Would it be possible to contemplate, that in order to maintain the secrecy of Ultra and the intercepts, this was the correct, nay necessary, move? It seems that it was an unfortunate, sad, and tragic necessity (the crossing) in order to maintain the deception, and Clark would have had no other course of action available, what are your thoughts on this?

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

I disagree. The British X Corps already accomplished a feint, and I doubt that Ultra would have been in any serious jeopardy if the Rapido attack was called off. Of course, we could play the What If game until the end of time.

@nowthenzen 6 ай бұрын

since the Germans did not know the Rapido attack was intended to draw off troops or even that it was planned there was no 2 + 2 to put together. agreed.@@codycarlsonph.d.5591

@OneCrazyTeacher Жыл бұрын

How would I go about finding what information there is for a family member that survived crossing the river, was taken as a POW, and then died?

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Probably check out their service records through the National Personell Records Center in St. Louis.

@aayushyadav2960 2 жыл бұрын

can you please recommend a biography on Lenin and Trotsky and Stalin which are not biased ?

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

Biased how? I read Robert Service’s bios of Stalin and Lenin which I thought were excellent. Robert Conquest’s bio of Stalin is also good.

@aayushyadav2960 2 жыл бұрын

@@codycarlsonph.d.5591 sorry i didnt mean biased buy rather detailed and how is Stephen Kotkin bio of Stalin i wish the multi volume history books were more available in my country

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 2 жыл бұрын

I haven’t read Kotkin’s book.

@jorickcaberio1865 7 ай бұрын

what the fuck did eisenhower see in him?

@ronwescott7284 11 ай бұрын

my father fought under this idiot and was wounded at rapido Russel Wescott 141 coE....you nailed this fool for being weak and not fit for command...just like ike was not fit for command

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 11 ай бұрын

I would disagree about Ike, but certainly it's true of Clark.

@larry1824 Жыл бұрын

Clark sure liked posing for pictures

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

That he did.

@stephensmith5982 Жыл бұрын

I must make a further comment. I think that General Alexander should have been a much more hands on army group commander. There might have been some anti- American feeling there or an under appreciation of American capability.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@johnschuh8616 Жыл бұрын

@@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Also in the handling of Anzio. Was Alexander being told to go light on Clark?

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

@@johnschuh8616 In coalition warfare, one must treat a subordinate of a different nationality lightly.

@jamesgray6346 Жыл бұрын

I give this mediocre marks because it essentially tells the listener what to think from a rather narrow perspective instead of providing a broader context along with the arguably valid alternate viewpoints, allowing the listeners to reach their own conclusions. Many of the points made here exhibit explanation bias - cherry-picking the facts to reach the desired (and most popular) conclusion.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

I’d be interested to hear your counter arguments. Thank you for your perspective.

@jamesgray6346 Жыл бұрын

@@codycarlsonph.d.5591 I'd like the opportunity to do so, although a private discussion would be preferable and more appropriate than carrying on here. For those who may be reading this, an easily accessible place to start your own investigation is Martin Blumenson's treatment in the 1970 book "Bloody River, the real tragedy of the Rapido". It is well to note that before Blumenson undertook his 1984 biography of Clark, he was anything but enamored of the General, which makes his even-handed approach in "Bloody River" even more compelling. That is just one among a pile of books, papers and official documents that raise Clark, as flawed as he was, above contempt for his role in the tragic events of January 1944.

@codycarlsonph.d.5591 Жыл бұрын

@@jamesgray6346 Thanks.

@johnschuh8616 Жыл бұрын

I think the facts speak for themselves.

@jamesgray6346 Жыл бұрын

That assumes one is in possession of sufficient facts. This video doesn't present a broad enough base of information to support the questionable premise that Clark was a bad general, nor does it sufficiently explain all the shortcomings of, and mistakes made by the 36th division and supporting units that helped create the disaster, none of which were directly Clark's fault. Nor does it sufficiently address the external forces beyond Clark's control that played into the making of the tragedy. What has been presented here is too shallow and rather too biased to deserve high marks.