I think the physics of what you are saying is dead on. I went to the scrap yard today and bought a 500 lb steel bulldozer weight for $185 - it is 36" long and has all that mass right under the 8"x10" flat on the end, also a nice curved radius just off the edge. No stand to build settled into the ground and welded to and anchor bolt. I know you don't need to hear it but great points made. Just finished my vertical forge and plan to get to work and grow my tools after growing my skills. Go the the scrap yard - I saw several other great options - one could have easily bought 200 lbs for half the money and still had a great option

Finally, a man who understands basic physics. Remember that the most commonly used anvil around the world is a 12-16 pound sledgehammer head turned on its end. So increasing the mass as you have shown increases the "equal and opposing reaction." Yes, it's just basic physics. I'm glad you took the time to show it in such fine detail.

For the people complaining in the comments about your style teaching... There is nothing forcing them to watch. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

About 10 years ago I bought a piece of 4140 toll steel from ebay. It was round piece about 5 inches in diameter and about 1 foot long. I searched my local scrap yards and they had nothing. It still only cost me about 80 bucks but I didn't have to spent 30 bucks driving into town. The steel was completely annealed and far too soft with little rebound. So I built a quick ground forge and heated the top half a few degrees passed non magnetic and filled a 55 gal drum with a brine made with pool salt and water. I just kept adding salt until a potato would float. I got board to stir the water with and get it swirling. I had welded a big T handle on the bottom end of the anvil so I had a way to grab it. When it was good and glowing orange I quenched it in that swirling brine. It hissed at me for probably 5 minutes. I'm glad I had safety glasses on because I got a nice salty steam session. LOL. After quenching I had to wait a full day for it to cool off enough to handle. The quench worked!!! The anvil was super hard. Too hard to use but that was OK. The quenching gave it a small crack on one edge about 2 inches long. No big deal. I thought about welding it and sanding it smooth but I didn't want to mess with my heat treat/temper. So I baked it in my oven at 300 degrees for two hours. Waited another day for it to cool in my shop and tested it. Took all the brittleness out and that thing rebounds like an anvil costing thousands of dollars. Next I built a base. I could have just concreted it in a bucket and called it good but instead I went to a steel yard and bought a pipe big enough to fit the anvil inside and a round piece of steel for the base. I welded the pipe to the base and filled the pipe with pea gravel. That allowed me to drop my anvil in and set the height perfect for me by adding or taking away gravel. Once it was perfect, I rant 3 small wooded wedges between the top of the pipe and the anvil to lock it in. I had some scrap steel square pipe that I cut up and welded around the pipe to hold tongs and hammers. Painted everything with black engine enamel paint except for the face of the anvil which I keep oiled. All in all, I have about $120 into a kick @ss anvil. A few other advantages to this anvil. I don't have a huge shop so the footprint of this anvil is much smaller than a normal anvil. It hits like a 300 lb anvil because of all the mass directly underneath and has excellent rebound. Very similar in function to a Robin Anvil if you are familiar with those. Lastly, the funny thing is I bought a cheap welder to for this build, figuring it would come in handy. This started my side business as a welder, fabricator. 10 yrs later, my shop is dedicated to welding. I run mig in my shop and a Miller Trailblazer on my Truck. I've got a Hypertherm plasma cutter, an Avani fume extractor. A huge Gantry Crain I build that lifts 3 tons. I even built a huge road roller that I bull behind with my tractor to put roads in for customers. Funny how one hobby leads you into another. For anyone needing a decent cheap stick welder, you can get an AHP 160 amp, DC welder with dual voltage for about $200 and it has an impressive 60% duty cycle. Highly recommended. I will tell you once you get into a Trailblazer you are looking at $7,000 - $8,000 but it can pay for it self in two or three jobs easy. I hope this helps anyone interested in getting a rockin anvil for cheap.

I'm a beginner to blacksmithing, and after watching this video, I have some scrap I never realized would be more effective than the solution I had to the anvil question previously. Thanks for the video, man.

Thanks! Just today I bought a chunk of steel from a steel source and now I know to put it on end and get the meat of her vertical. Thanks again.

Thank you for speaking sense amidst so much ignorance on this topic. Make more videos please you seem to have the right ideas.

Perfect no nonsense, common sense approach. I was seriously considering purchasing some railroad track too. Thanks for the save!

I have been using a portion of a forklift tine as my anvil for 2 years, I was using it flat, not alot of mass under the hammer. Then I found a chunk of mild steel 6x6x12 but odd shaped and has a 2 1/2 inch hole in it. Alot more mass and seems easier on a injured wrist and fore arm I have. I use pieces of round stock of various diameters when I need to curve or radius my material. So I have located some mild pieces that I will use for a waist under the tine and will weld it solid all the way round to make it one piece- using a spacer and welding from the inside out. And I intend on making a horn to use for shaping when I need it. I know its opposite of what you said. But I got my welding rods for free and I have the time to do it. I enjoyed this video very much, thank you for making it.

Thank you for a good, informative video. In the UK a lot of farriers have a rail track section shaped into an anvil for final shaping of shoes, obviously, for this purpose a piece of track makes sense because it is lighter and compact enough to fit in a truck and a lot of fixed mass is not necessary. I think this is where a lot of people get the idea for a track anvil from seeing farriers use them but don't realise the requirements and product are different.

Right on! Thank you for putting the truth out here! My anvil is very similar to this. I also run into people that think they know what they talk about, but they are only running with junk they see. My forge is a box of dirt and clay like they used in logging camps in the 1700's. It is good to know history in this field!

I like this guys style, old school common sense and experience. What he has said and showed rings true for the whole YT community. Realising that the tube is full of trends, know it alls and charlatans will get you off to a very good start here. We need more folks like this guy to call them on their mistakes and down right horseshit and it's plain to see the man is correct. Not one logical retort from those in the wrong, speaks volumes for sure.

You know what I like that Sr!! As a Farmer I need solid peace of still or anvil and watching this just has made my Mined up! Thank you.

Japanese traditional anvils are just that, a block of steel. Period. Look what they did with those for the last 3000 + years.

This is a good video on the subject of what constitutes a suitable blacksmithing anvil. I agree with a lot of what this gentleman says.

Thanks Wayne. As a retired guy looking to learn how to forge some small projects this is real helpful. I appreciate you guys with a lifetime of experience taking the time to make a video to pass on a little knowledge.

Good video. I started with nothing but a 50lbs cast iron anvil and later got a pair of HF cast steel Russian anvils for I think 100$ each. Finally after 20 years I got a Refflinghause anvil and wish I'd gotten one sooner. That said it was a hard decision to pay that much, but not one I've regretted. I've also built a couple of post anvils and such. For bladesmithing you can get by a lot easier than blacksmithing. A friend of mine managed to get a large, 3" thick fork lift tine and made several bladesmith anvils from it. I've also seen several anvils made from a rectangular block of steel with different radius added to simulate a horn. Wayne Goddard has several articles on home made anvils in his books which are worth a look. All that said, it's hard to beat a quality anvil, but with old ones getting hard to find and new ones expensive, it's a big investment.

thank you for your knowledge. i've always wondered if there was a draw back to all those anvils that i've seen with a welded on piece of plate at the top. NOW i have that answer. and a definitive and understandable explanation as to WHY it is bad. THANK YOU sir!

Thanks for the informative video. After 30 years with power tools and shooting for even longer, I didn't notice any problems with the sound either until I read all of the comments whining about it.

Loved the video, it was very informative. I wish I would have seen it years ago before I spent $600 on an anvil. The only thing about the video is I wish the sound was not so bad. I think everyone interested in blacksmithing should see this video...keep up the good work.

I love the creativity and determination of folks to improvise and just make it work. Yeah a big expensive anvil is nice but a lot of love goes in to working with what you have for now. Cheers all and "Hammer ON!"

Great informational video. Now that this is a popular hobby, supplies have become expensive. This kind of information makes the hobby more accessible for beginners! Thank you 👍

Thank you. I watch KZfaq on my tv and never get on my computer just to comment. I will for your video however because my wife is much more willing to let me start blacksmithing now that she knows that I don't have to break our bank to get started. I have been woodworking since I was 9, and am ready learn something new at 35. So again thank you!!!

Good to know. I now have an anvil. Very informative. Thanks.

thank you so much for your video it is very informative, and I do love when people break the barriers of common thought to reveal a simple answer to a question that never needed to be complicated.

Thank you so much for this very informative video . I'm just starting out blacksmithing , and I don't want to pay a lot right outta the gate. I have a 2' section of railroad iron and a terribly messed up 42 lb. cast iron anvil. I didn't want to use either one so thanks to you I don't have to . I live approx. 20 miles from a steel yard and THAT is where I will pick up my first "Square" anvil. Thank you and I hope you keep this sort of video coming because I am now a subscriber.

Yes! Finally a pro who dumbs it down to the basics! All one needs is a surface large enough to work on & harder than hot steel. And for a beginning smith with little experience & hobbyist-level projects, a nice hunk of steel is right where ya wanna be. As for a Hardie hole, skip it. Make your tools (including a small "horn") that'll go into your vice. (BTW, you should have a vice.) The vice does exactly what a Hardie hole does, nothing less, & perhaps even better; it keeps your tools from bouncing around when you're banging away. Keep it simple. Men of old forged weapons of war on far less than what we know as modern anvils.

Nice video. I do have a piece of track I use mostly for the horn I cut into it. My go to "anvil" is an 80lb block of pig iron that I found in a dumpster. It has worked great for everything I've asked of it. Everything up to 1" round bar has moved well for me on it. Great job.

I'm not a blacksmith, but from time/time, I need a striking plate...your information is valuable...very informative... a great segment...Thank You, Uncle Black

Definitely makes sense. I have a piece of mainline track that I have given it the anvil shape and I've noticed when I use my friends anvils the metal moves faster and for some reason more controlled guess that the vibration in the track more of deflection I guess you would say. I've been searching for months for a anvil I could afford but now I think I'm going to search for a block of steel and see how that works. thanks for the video.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! For your common sense explanation. Don’t need an anvil shaped object.

I agree - its all about what is under the hammer, your typical london pattern anvil is great for tooling around, but probably has less than half its mass under the sweet spot. I have a 150 x 150mm x 200mm high block of mild steel that weighs about 30kg and a small 20kg london pattern anvil with a hardened face. I do most of the heavy hitting on the mild steel block, the London pattern anvil I mostly use the horn and the hardie. It is slightly taller than the mild steel block, and has a lot more rebound, but I dont think the steel moves as well on it. I do use rail track a bit, but I have it loose, I lay it on its side on my heavy steel work bench giving access to the side radius on the rail to work small stock around, it works great for that.

Makes a whole lot of sense. Thanks.

and by the way, most people search for an excuse not to do certain things, instead of simply taking the easiest possible thing and using it, i needed to mill a keyway, but i didnt have a mill, so i rigged up my dremel tool to some aluminium profiles, put an xy-table under it and there you go. certainly not as precise as a bridgeport, but if you dont have one, its better than no keyway. same goes for anvils and other tools, sure there are some tools that are neccesary but most operations in fabricating something can be rigged up by utilizing stuff that tumbles around your garage! :)

I’ve been forging on a rail cut to the shape of an anvil for the last five years, and I can tell you with certainty that you’re…. Right. Mostly. My little guy is pretty good if you’re not forging stock larger than 1 inch. Trouble with me is where I live I can’t find a scrap yard that will let me walk in and poke around, and old ladies selling Peter wright anvils on Craigslist for $100 has been over for a long time around here. So I built a hydraulic forge press instead. Yeah, I feel like a cheater, but I’m also not spending a week trying to forge a single pattern welded knife anymore.

I agree with you on this, however, I am making a rail anvil anyway because I have the time and I think it looks great when done right. Maybe not as effective but fun to make for sure. I am also not a blacksmith, just make small blades for fun. Good video.

Makes sense. I use any thing that will allow me to hand cold bend soft steel and a table vice for small pieces. I use acetylene to weld into place. Forging is a future attempt. My point is, as you said, there is no needed to purchase the perfect tool to get a job done. I don't have an anvil. Finding a block of steel would be useful.

Best lesson found so far :)

this is good information. i would take it even one step farther though. for example, when i first started forging, i used a flywheel from an old f150 bolted to a stump as my first anvil. it was dead as a doornail and I loat a lot of energy, bit for someone just getting started, i had a hard flat surface and an edge to work as well and it was basically free. anything you can hammer on and use to manipulate metal is a good starter anvil. no sense wasting money on junk anvils and railroad track because it is not much if any better than a much cheaper option for a beginner. Then if or when you decide to get serious about it, spend the money on a proper anvil to get the most out of your swing. i personally bought a 300 lb fisher and i love how quiet it is and despite being 120 years old still gives me 75% rebound which for an amateur like me is great. thanks again for the video. the info is really useful for us new guys

Nice…. Good to finally hear from subject matter expert. Thanks buddy.

I've watched a couple of the railway track anvil making videos and wondered why they went through all the trouble shaping and polishing. I tried one once and it didn't feel right - now I know why. Thanks for the insight! I have been using a 3 foot section of rail, standing on end, for years. I welded a couple of 4 inch angles to the bottom and mounted it on a hardwood stump - it works fine for the home projects that I do.

Hi Wayne, Thanks for the email, very interesting piece. And thank you again, after viewing your video I will be going to the steel stockist and buying a large block of steel to start me off. Keep up the good work my friend. Kind Regards Steve Silverwood UK

This was exactly what i suspected, but needed to hear. Thanks dude.

nice, i had access to a cylinder shape piece of Steel flat on both ends it works just as well after I polished it. few people laughed at me for having that for an anvil but it works and it was free

I really like the way you get right down to the basics. I'm new to forging and you taught me more in this short video than hours and hours of BS I've been reading and watching here on YT. So I would like to thank you for your straight shooting. I learned a lot.

Thank you Mr. Wayne for the best lesson on the perfect shape for a homemade anvil. Really is this best way for harnessing energy from the hammer.

Thanks for the straight talking vid. Anyone that can't appreciate straight common sense advice like that shouldn't be taking up a trade that has been built on it.

Sounds logical to me. Don't worry about the trolls and to argue reason with the unreasonable is a good source of frustration and headaches.

Think you know and understand what you're talking about,a very intelligent matter of fact person best wishes to you always God bless

That is awesome. I use a 6" x 6" x 16" block of steel and I don't know any better it works fine for my abilities (which are pretty limited) Thank you for your time making this video! Mike👍😁🇨🇦

Videos like this are great. Gives you pre knowledge and ideas of what questions to ask during a class.

Excellent, I needed to watch this. Thanks.

Thanks a lot for that. I've made do without a proper anvil for years always meaning to make one but you just saved me an awful lot of work.

Thanks so much man! Only had to call two Local steel suppliers to get a chunk! Should be ready to to start blacksmithing in the fall

What you presented here definitely RINGS true. LOL These guys are paying 6 to 10 dollars a pound for Anvils. It's crazy. I got lucky and had one given to me, but still use a chunk like you have here just as much. I only use the anvil for its hardy hole and pritchel hole.

Thankyou Wayne great video I'm from Australia

Great practical advice, I was looking into a rail style anvil. You changed my mind!

Thanks for the video.

Good video- The traditional medieval anvil was very much like you describe: a block of iron about that size mounted on a wood post. My post anvil is 4" x 5" by about 6". Weld angle iron on each side, drill holes, use lag bolts and screw it to the wood post. But, I also have a Trenton (one of the last ones built after WWII, I think) that was welded at the factory, as you mention. People ask me, "who could ever break an anvil and then weld it back together?" LOL!! A post anvil-block of steel is fine, if that is all you can afford, but if you have a chance to get an old anvil at a reasonable price don't pass it up. You will never regret it! I love that old Trenton; the ring and the bounce are incredible. It will be my life long companion!!

Thankyou sir! Someone finally said it how it is - sweet and simple - thankyou! I will be completely reassessing my first anvil requirements. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.

This content is perfect. I realy enjoyed the aspect and appreciated the throwing the crap you don't realy need. I agree totally withal you have said considering most seels now adays are similar or better than some of the anvils of the early days. like you mentioned....Sincerely, Martin at M&S Blades and Blacksmihing

well done mate just what i needed to see. you saved me alot of time and headaches

Advice is golden, but that music is killing me

Thanks for the video. Very informative and quite relieving actually. My 12 year old boy is always throwing horseshoes and other metal in the fire to get them red hot so I figure maybe I should feed his curiosity by trying a bit of shaping of the red hot metal hes making :) This makes it pretty simple and cheap to see if he'd like to go down the smithing hobby road. Thanks again!

Thank you for making such a practical well explained video.

This is exactly what I use. I have two configurations, one just like you show, and one that has three profiles on it's face. The first radii is very aggressive, 1" the 2nd is approximately 2.5 in and the 3rd is about 20'. I don't think I'll ever use anything else.

Sir you saved me from making a $1000 mistake. I will update this post with what I find in the scrapyard and the price I pay for it.

Thanks for taking the time to make the video. Sound wasn't great but I could hear it fine. Even if I couldn't I would still get the point. COMMON SENSE.

That is a good anvil.

good video, thanks for clearing my head. now I know what I need, and why.

Found a wood splitting wedge at a local 2nd hand shop; needs to have the end ground and flattened. Then, with some stand to hold it, I'll have a shop utility anvil for moments when I need to smack on something.

Very informative and as another has commented earlier, the physics is dead on. I always loved science so this rings true especially for myself. That diagram of the traditionally shaped anvil just clicks when I visualize that rectangular block of solid mass directly under the hammer strike zone through the face, body, waist and base of the anvil. Great stuff!

Hey Wayne, this is Will Choate, I have been watching on the TV couldn't subscribe using the TV. Now I'm on my notepad so I subscribed!

Thanks so much for explaining the logic. I’ll have to find a scrap yard which can be a challenge to find one in the UK these days. Thanks again- you have earned yourself a subscriber 😀

Thank you! I've been searching for answers on this topic and you answered them as well as ones I didn't know I had. Much appreciated, thank you for teaching me something useful.

Excellent .....!

Good perspective. I use a 250 pound Hay Budden, and I use the horn, pritchel and Hardy a lot, but I can certainly appreciate the utility of a block with multiple radii like that. And if you machine some swages into the sides... I think Glen (GS Tongs) has shown how incredibly well this system works.

Thanks, this was great. simplicity!

You are absolutely correct. The best anvil for general purpose work would be a block of steel. Look at any power hammer, the anvil on just about all of them is a simple block of steel. Now if one has to do round bends or scroll work and accurate hot cutting one would need an anvil with a horn and hardy hole. The plain steel block still makes a better general purpose anvil and is in fact better for blade smiting. A rail can be used to make an anvil, but for light work and if the horn is made long and round possibly for tin. I myself would never weld a plate to the top of an anvil, I don't have a forge big enough to heat the anvil to welding temperature and minions (fellow smiths!) to forge weld the plate on with sledges, not counting getting it in and out of the forge and heat treating it after.

Lol I have been wanting to build a railroad anvil, I do have a 10”x8”x4” tool Steel and I use it all the time. Thanks for the heads up on the imposters lol I did learn a lot from you video

Very good advice.

thank you sir. still learning the craft and it´s a pleasure to listen to someone making sense of what he´s saying. i´m reading some of your replies and i hope you are doing fine now, thanks again for sharing your knowledge. peter

That makes a lot of sense. Thinking about the physics of how it really functions.

Why is the music going? I can barely hear this dude.

and for all these years I thought Anvils were for Roadrunner and Bugs Bunny!!.. Nice video!!!.. I like your shop and Knowledge about!!

I actually used an 8" section of Railroad track to make a die and a 3' section of 12" round shafting to make the anvil for my friends Power hammer using a very similar method to what you just did. Overall cost was about $70 and he's been using the same set up for over 25 years

Good video, I use a Vertical rail atm. been watching for a block of steel, fork lift tine, whatever i can. wanting to get a striking anvil. But since i'm just starting out i'm not worried about it.

Thanks you so much for posting this. I want to get my feet wet with basic blacksmithing and this is what I needed. I have already seen how to make a horn and attach a tail part with a hardy hole after the fact but as you stated it needs to welded all the way from the center to the edge. I plan to do this in stages. I plan to post this on my own channel in some time.

I found a 100 lb block of steel at the scrap yard today. 5" square x 13" long. I paid about $25 for it. Set it in my stump on end and am waiting for silicone (mounting solution recessed into stump) to cure. Even being mild steel, it has plenty of rebound for my needs. A major upgrade to my fabricated anvil that I made from laminated 1"x3" flat bar.

THANKS FOR THE VIDEO IT,S GREAT I,M A SHEETMETAL AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER THIRTY FIVE YEARS WORKING WITH COPPER DOING ROOFING METAL WORK .WHEN IN THE FIELD WE WOULD HAVE TO DRAW OUR SOLDERING IRON OUT TO A POINT AND ALOT OF MEN FOUND IT TOUGH TO DO IN THE FIELD .SO MY SOLUTION WAS TO GET A PIECE OF FLAT STEEL THAT WAS VERY HARD FROM THE IRONWORKERS ,AND IT WORKS VERY WELL FOR ME.

Excellent focus on basic physics for beginning smiths.

Thanks for the video and advise, why don't more people use plain old common horse since anymore. I have one of those I made many years ago and still use it today. I sold my factory made 90 pound anvil, the block works so much better with much less ring.

Glory Hallelujah. Cracking the rail mith.

Once My ears Stopped bleeding This was a right good video

Awesome stuff, common sense wisdom. 🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Really change my mind, thank you

Excellent information. I haven't heard the physics of anvils before and always thought the rail anvils were the good ones.

How much did it cost to repair the big chunk taken out of the floor by dropping that rail?

Sound advice, an anvil is just a heavy solid face to work on, the first anvils were just a big rock!

Thanks, great advice, by the way Glen at GS Tongs uses a beautiful square anvil with a hardy hole and produces amazing work.