It is worth pointing out that cord is a lot less problematic than slings. Cord has the core protected by the sheath, therefore the core is not exposed to UV. Slings are thin, do not have a sheath and every strand is exposed, making them degrade a lot faster.

Hugely significant point you made. Yes, a bolt that lasts for years, is less impact than a ton of plastic slings.

The accident basically happened because they did not understand how climbing gear degrades. Teaching the limitations of gear is why I like this channel and would recommend to anyone starting out to do some kind of proper course rather than just learn from a friend who lacks knowledge or may do things wrong.

Yes, RIP to those two climbers, who were young and had their whole lives ahead of them, but thank God that divine rock wasn't defaced with a 1/2" diameter steel bolt, making some crusty old f$%ks on Mountain Project upset because people can now safely repeat a heroic first ascent from (checks notes) 1936.

In Tree climbing, we use retrievable ring on ring friction savers that would be basically the same as what you are using for slings. Consists of a large anchor ring on one end and a small anchor ring on the other. Put the rings together then put your rope through. You can either lower yourself using moving rope system / doubled rope technique, or you can put an alpine butterfly to stop against the small ring, put a carabiner in the loop so it doesn't close, then repel on single rope technique / stationary system. Have to make sure you have enough rope on the butterfly end to touch the spot you are repelling to in order to retrieve. To retrieve the friction saver, either put a stopper knot or a retrieval ball on one end of the rope and pull the rope down. The knot or retrieval ball goes through the big ring but catches the small ring and it pulls the friction saver out. For controlled retrieval, we use throw line by tieing it to the stopper knot / retrieval ball end. The throwline follows the path of the large ring, which is pulled around the backside of the trunk / limb. Have to pay attention to whether or not the big ring fits through the union on the tree you are using so it doesn't get stuck. For Stationary rope there is a variety of different ways to do a choker around the tree with your climbing line that are retrievable, as simple as a butterfly fly knot by it self, or a bit more complex as a floating ring with a midline stopper knot. Probably too much friction for anchoring to a boulder, but might be useful for anchoring to trees, depending on how far you are repelling / lowering yourself.

5:37 Thanks for giving that material one last ride! 😆😁

It's mind blowing how crazy the impact of extended UV exposure on the same piece of gear is in those examples!

I lost my best friend to this in the Alps. He was a phenomenal climber, well known and very experienced, but three old sun baked pieces of tat failed and he fell several hundred meters. In the alps and in the US Ive often come across thick wedges with multiple sun baked slings - I normally cut away the oldest and replace with new. As an amusing aside, about 12 years ago I removed a shoelace and titanium rap ring that was on a shrub from from Officers Gulch (near fresco), I was bimbling about on the ice during a drive home and it melted my brain in so many ways… a shoelace. Well it makes me laugh

Former SAR high angle guy here…good video. Also good to hear that people are starting to pay attention to this, the fact it’s trash in the environment. It’s easy to confuse left gear with trash.

A critical bit of info about both of those accidents is that they both happened when the slings were wet. This probably didn’t decrease their strength but it DEFINITELY made the slings look newer. Read the American Alpine Club summary of the JTree accident

At Seneca Rocks in West Virginia where I learned to climb the guides would maintain the rap stations with trees and would use 11m static rope run through black tubular webbing with two rap rings. When the black webbing lost its color it was time to replace the anchor. I wonder how strong the rope under the webbing would be? The idea being the webbing would take the UV damage and protect the rope.

One of my dear friends Bryson Allen was killed during a rappel anchor failure on thw mendenhall towers. I really appreciate you helping keep climbers a little safer during equipment critical moments. Bryson was 23, he was an incredible person and a joy to climb with. I hope all of you climb for many more years. ❤️

Frankenjura: cutting slings if they look too bad. Take the shit you don't trust with you and leave good stuff or rappel with nothing left behind. I hate leaving stuff behind. As i don't trust other peoples slings and so i don't want anybody to trust mine.

So I come from a technical rescue background, I understand that the safety factors we use are way way above what sport climbers use. That being said, I look at it as if the protection should be replaced with new webbing, rope, whatever, every time. Your life is worth far more than it cost to replace sketchy gear. I can buy 100’ of tubular webbing for $40. If it were me, I’d cut the old stuff out and place new every single time if it was not literally witnessed being places. The other thought would be to sharpie a date on it. But again how long is too long? I don’t have the answers but it would give some idea.

"These things will never break down in a landfill!" -Breaks down on a rock instead...

Don’t add. Replace

Chad is a fitting name consideing the work he is putting in cleaning up anchors, and putting in new ones!

My rules of thumb: If I add a piece of tat, I cut out the oldest pieces of tat until there's only 3-4 pieces total If there's only one or two pieces, always add a fresh piece

Sling from tape is the worst material to use, the way it weaves there is no part protected from the sun. Rope sling is far better as the core *should* never be in daylight, and if it is visible you can see there's a problem I installed a "sling" on a tree for others, I used heavy stainless steel cable and 2 stainless steel mooring rings on the cable so people can retrieve their rope (cable passed through some old hose pipe where it contacted the tree), I don't have to worry that someone will die because of an old sling I left, but it's expensive and a hassle to go and put it there.

Many years ago I cut away a rats nest of faded slings from a pair of rappel rings in Joshua tree. I threw the mess down to rest of our party who was waiting at the bottom of the climb, laced up the rings and rapped down. When I reached the bottom I was confronted by a very well known and quite angry climber who berated me for decreasing the safety of the route by removing the redundant slings. I was dumbfounded by the response I received for my action to increase safety and aesthetics.

Chad is one my favorite people and it's so fucking cool to see him on this channel. 🎉❤

Hey Ryan. Thanks for providing amazing content. Nerding out on this topic and virtually everything you’re up to is high quality information. Keep it up.

6:25 There's a strong chance that black cord from the Gunks was put there by me! Obviously I don't have the monopoly on black technora cord, but that was my leaver cord for a few years, a few years back.

One of the best climbers I knew when I started climbing in the late 80's was a guy named Jim Boyer. Great guy. He climbed all over the world from sport to big walls to alpine. He was killed rapping off fixed webbing on Mt. Lemmon in Tucson. Always be prepared to replace or back up an anchor even if it means losing gear.

So I hear the argument that bolts are a permanent change whereas slings around a tree are able to be removed, and yeah that sort of makes sense. But really, I have to wonder if the main reason we're still regularly putting slings on frequently used rappel stations is that it's just more convenient to carry a sling than a drill? Is this an effort thing, and what really needs to be done is someone just needs to put in the work?

Hey Ryan great video. My takeaways when making judgement calls when rappelling off of tat: 1. Check for discoloration of the webbing. If it’s cord, look for desheating and softness to indicate if the cord is coreshot. 2. If it’s webbing, check for crustyness/stiffness in the material. 3. Generally metal is okay. But look for obvious signs of distress and if there is a massive groove. Is there anything else I missed?

If we don’t want folks to link unlinked anchor bolts (3:30) we shouldn’t leave single links oriented to ensure rope twisting on the pull.

thank you for making these videos. you literally save lives by education

This is very common in the U.K. where bolt anchors on trad climbs are exceedingly rare. The BMC (British Mountaineering Council) volunteers do a great job of installing and replacing static rope anchors (around tree trunks) and have installed steel cable anchors at some popular crags. Nevertheless there are still lots of tat nests at the top of some climbs (e.g. on sea stacks).

As a canoyneer I have a good sense of what is good or bad. But my friends did die from bad stuff....

I can’t believe the gear from the gunks was still strong because it looked so old. I’m new to trad climbing and seeing those slings always makes me nervous so I opt for bolted rappels but I’m glad to hear there are people trying to keep it safe.

Yeah I imagine I have rappeled off of some of those slings you were showing from the gunks. We are taught to check the quality of the webbing, mainly on crustiness/stiffness. Aside from the increased plastic, you can also see the wear and tear on the trees. Some routes have been replaced with bolt anchors, but it's a work in progress. I for sure prefer bolts and chains when possible.

The crackling sound of old webing breaking!

As soon as I saw the thumbnail I thought "oh yeah, anchors at the Gunks all look like that." Cool to see you test some!!

I'll be replacing the tat at the top of the 2nd pitch of Wasp (Gunks) this spring, if someone else does not get to it first.

I was hoping you would test 2 or more pieces of tat together. Agree with the advantages of a well placed bolted anchor.

I had my first anchor failure after 27 years and was lucky enough to walk away with no injuries. Be safe out there.

I'm not climber, but for god sake, thank you for that video!

Thank you for sharing as always! I’m part of a rebolting team in Belgium. We always keep safety aspects in mind when maintaining an area or when we’re developing a new one. Two small fixed anchors definitely do not stand out and are highly recommended

Ah, the infamous ``wrap 3, pull to your death`` on sun bleached webbing.

Dogtags with the month and year of installation might be a good idear.

Who would win: •A sling •Years of UV exposure, temperature swings, moisture, freeze/thaw cycles, debris, and hard falls

I've had to set up an emergency rappel one day, to get down the mountain before a thunderstorm would catch us out in the open. I'm sorry to have to admit that I did leave some rope and one carabiner out there. They were definitely not my newest and bestest. I can imagine leaving crap that's already old exposed to the elements and the UV rays at 3000 metres is indeed quite dangerous. I do hope the cabin keeper found someone to clean up my stuff, after I explained to them where I had left it.

Duude that framing with the mountain at the start. Gold. I love WA.

The piranha is a tiny but great climbing knife for clearing tat.

In the northeast USA, the ethics go something like this: if the first ascensionists put in bolts or pitons, it’s totally fine and they can even be replaced when they wear out (including the pitons!!!). If they didn’t, then you’re SOOL even if 2 nice anchor bolts would be way less impactful than the layers of tat on the dead or dying tree a 10 ft risky scramble away 🤷.

Always bring some webbing and a quicklink at least! Half a pound in weight go be the difference between a smooth operator or a sketchy/deadly rap

I once noticed a frayed leg strap on a parachute that another jumper was putting on. After I commented how it didn't look good, he reached down and tore it in two with his fingers. Don't underestimate how material can weaken over time.

For tree work we use adjustable and retrievable cambium/friction savers. If you know you're going to repel of a tree, then why not use a cambium/friction saver and then retrieve it when you're done? You won't see tree workers leaving slings in tree's for the next guy. Retrievable tree anchors are cheap and lightweight. Why don't you just use these instead?

Great episode. Super important topic. Well demonstrated.

I’ve never climbed anything that didn’t have an improved trail, however, I love these climbing videos.

Same thing happened in Mexico a few days ago, a touring company was doing a canyon in they anchor to a tree just one webbing one loop and it broke :(

3.63 kN is terrifying. I wouldn't ride a bike that collapsed at that load. I wouldn't even sleep in a bed that collapsed at that load.

Lovely video!! 😍 Thank you sir!

That anchor in the thumbnail is fine. I’ve rapped off some sketchy anchors. The one pictured is bomber. Already has webbing so I don’t need to leave any. 🤟🏼

It does seem that sometimes, not all the time, that some people, not all people, are effectively making the argument "my personal sense of aesthetics is more important than other people's safety".

In lieu of stainless bolts, I think the climbing / canyoning community should adopt a "take one, leave one" approach. If you're doing a canyon or route which falls into the "not many people do this, and it's possibly dodgy" category, then you should carry some spare sling / rope. Whenever you come across an anchor, look at it and count the slings. If it only has one, then add another one and use both. If it has two, then remove the worse looking one, add your own, and use both. It's terrible for waste of plastics, and I feel bad about that, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to other plastic waste, and it could save a life. If you're a regular canyoner / climber, I highly recommend this practice. It could save a life.

Would have loved to see the 3 worst one pulled at same time

As you point out, Canyoneers are taught to inspect and remove old webbing and replace it. We try to carry enough webbing to assume there is nothing safe in place. We also carry the crap out. So when climbing… sounds like carry webbing too.

Have the same issues at Devil's lake here in WI. 90% you can walk off so you dont necessarily need a rap anchor but ik a few spots where there is decades old tat but everybody loses their goddamn mind when you mention that a 2 bolt anchor would save me from down soloing off the frigate past a wasp nest

Years ago I found an old sling in a canyon in northern Spain. It looked OK except it was a little faded and the stitch block had been wrapped and covered with duct tape. I used to take it to classes, I was training vertical adventure guides, and would randomly throw it on the table along with a selection of various slings, some proprietary, some knotted, then ask people on the course to sort out what they would or would not use. Most people rejected a couple of knotted slings, tape with a tape knot and cord with a double fisherman's knot only on the basis they were knotted and were quite happy to include the old Spanish sling, even though it was faded and the duct tape made it impossible to check the stitch block, or even if there was a stitch block! When they asked me what I'd choose I would reply, if I didn't know their age and history, none of them!

Trusting a single sling is hardcore even if they’re brand new

Keep up the great content and advocating for safer cliffs. I live in Australia and we have some great challenges with land managers and bolts. Some people get nostalgic about tat, but its ugly and dangerous. Some are getting replace by a big chain, which is better but 2 discreet bolts is still safer and more astetic.

Had a friend that would do a loose back up for all but the last person rappeling (looser than other tat). The idea being the test and inspection of the tat before 1 person uses and removes back up that didn't get weighted.

Rappelt on an tree with just the rope around. Felt like shit but we tested the tree more than enough. Still weird.

Two teenagers died in Red River Gorge in 2008 because of broken webbing. There it doesn’t harden in the sun it just kind of melts away in the rain and really old anchors you can pull apart with your hands.

I have some 7mm cord with a whole ecosystem growing out of it that I recently took down. It was anchored on some vegetation at the top of an ice climb, and it’s definitely been through some freeze thaw ice cycles inside of it as well for extra spice .

My rule on anchors is never rely on just one hard point, if it's trees, I prefer to have three anchors each to a separate tree and at the base or as close to the base as possible. 1" military grade webbing, 3 or more raps on each anchor, and tied off with a square knot and two hitches. But that's just me.

Please make some opposite tests: how much force will one exert when rappeling? It will dynamicaly change, but what would be maximum?

south face of the tooth is also a climb of historical significance in the area so that's my understanding of why it hasn't gotten bolted anchors. also high traffic and lots of guiding means the cord tends to stay pretty fresh up there

I'm not sure what message you were planning to send by this video, but I think I have the opposite takeaway. Most of that tat broke at 8-12 kN. Remember 1 kN is 224 lbs. What kind of weight does a careful rappeler put on a rappel with good geometry? Answer? Less than body weight and sometimes as little as 30-50 lbs. How do I know? Because I also canyoneer and rappel off all kinds of anchors most climbers would turn their nose up at, like cairns, deadmen, sandtraps, and waterpockets. 8 kN is basically a ton. 2000 lbs. You've really got to have crappy rappelling technique (and 4 friends hanging from your harness) to get up to a ton of weight on the anchor. Remember that your typical 3 piece ERNEST anchor is not designed to rappel on, it's designed to hold a factor 2 leader fall. You don't need anywhere near that much strength for a rappelling anchor. So the bottom line is that it's just fine to rappel off the vast majority of the tat you find out there. That said, I still think it's best practice to cut the 8 old pieces of webbing away and replace it with a fresh new piece of black webbing when there is obvious visual degradation. No need to replace the hardware of course as demonstrated by the video. Thanks for doing the testing.

NOT a climber but vid caught my eye - Blimey this is eye-opening and scary. I have wondered about how secure the bolts/tethers are when rappelling...

I, and many others I know, usually cut away old rappel slings when coming over them, before leaving a fresh one on our own rappel.

I'm surprised noboty mentioned that if in doubt just put up a backup for the first person rappelling (let the backup a little loose) and see how the anchor works. If its fine the second person takes the backup off and rappels ...

Fortunately most popular climbing regions here in Europe have drilled in bolts, chains and rings on the top. I have never seen such UV degraded slings around blocks or trees here, however I have repelled with he rope directly around a tree and had no problem pulling off the rope later.

i'm not even actually there and my heart rate spikes watching this

Hello, Your work is amazing, is webbing stronger when it's longer ?

This same thing happened in 2008 in the Red River Gorge. Ben and Laura were simultaneously rapping when the tat broke. They both died.

If I leave one, I always take one.

In my local area, there are often tree anchors like discussed. Instead of rope or webbing, they have been replaced with metal wire strops around the tree (often in a plastic tube for abrasion??)

If "experienced" didn't know it's natural selection 😊

On the weight load rating tag, maybe add a date to it if you can

Nearly did this once. Many decades ago. My mentor applied some audio physical association. So I never made a critical mistake. That's why you use some sacrificial new climbing tape ,that you take along for the purpose. Stay safe people. 💚 👍 👌

Lol, at the delaware water gap we call an anchor like that.... an ok anchor. Now it's when you get a tangle like that on a dead tree, and there's nothing else to rap off of.... that's when we start to sweat.

Seems pretty consistent that sun-bleached webbing is unsafe but if it isnt bleached it is probably strong enough for rappelling? If i ever see white tat im definitely gonna back it up

rappelled off the same route, but only the lower half, we made sure we rap off of redundant soft goods, but we did rap of one single bolt during it too. Scary

Something I was taught at a very young age, "The only rope and webbing that you can rely on, is one you purchased new and know the history of." Just as true today in 2024 as it was the first time rappelled down a face in 1981.

Does anyone have a link to the article about the double fatality?

That was a Darwin award after abbing on that crappy single piece of worn out tat.

The phrase "weakest link in the chain" specifically refers to a single link causing the entire chain to fail. If the only thing saving your life is the "chain", and your anchor is a "link", then if the link fails so do you.

In the UK we sometimes belay from wooden stakes or marquee pegs hammered into the grass on clifftops. But I prefer to walk a long way off the cliff than trust big tent pegs for abseiling.

Wait? I always thought the slings available are just a hint, where to put yours

Unless you have climbed on Taquitz; especially its north side; perhaps you should consider the risk of dozens of parties rappelling it; or setting up multiple pitch top ropes; with all the loose rock on it. A kid I had talked to a day before died when on a ledge you could camp on; and one most can get to without the need of a rope; had a rock come loose and off he went. With bolts at the top of every pitch; people could go out and rappel into the routes below; pretty sure some people would die. Pretty sure there would be some collosal tagging done.

that hill you are on is higher than anything within 1000km of me 😄 and then there is an even bigger volcano in the background😨 what a place to live !

We pulled many old slings from Eldorado canyon and then abused the crap out of them, none of which broke in our torture tests under human body weight. Even a heavy climber weighs maybe 250lbs and repelling usually doesn't create much force. We finally had to use a truck to break the slings. These slings were sun faded to white from their original color and still impressively strong

Mohonk Preserve should really add some more bolt stations on the popular routes.

Maybe sling manufactures could put "GREEN GREEN GREEN" on a green sling, so that way you could look at it and know if it's been discolored. Just a thought.

Been in Engineering for years and I have seen plastics change, old plastics like guttering from the 1970s is still almost indestructible, today's plastics degrade rapidly under UV, I had an old plastic watering can, when do a roofing project I was throwing it off the scaffold it was being refilled and I was pulling it back up on a rope, a modern plastic watering can would shatter. Look at plastic storage boxes, they were tough, I have lots of old ones at home, you pretty much have to jump on them to break them, the modern ones shatter instantly with the slightest knock and become unusable. Ropes are just plastics, the plastic industries need, to be held to account for making garbage plastic with designed in obsolescence. Plastic used to be permanent, not anymore, this is why we have so much micro-plastics in the ocean.

Cool video ! Recently also rapped off old tat. I have done a lot of multipitch trad routes and you encounter these belays all the time. we usually always carry our own webbing and knife and we cut and clean 🧼 as we go, yet sometimes in certain scenarios you just end up having to decide , leave a lot more gear than you want OR rap on questionable tat. I use caution and even though I’m a pirate 🏴‍☠️ I’ll leave booty for someone else and keep me and my party safe .

Would absolutely love to see this applied to the crags of North Carolina. Places like Ship Rock are bomber, well maintained, camo two bolt anchors. Other crags not so much. I would love to send you some old slings to test if possible. #makeanchorsgreatagain