If anything this will only make Mighty Keef's EVO Lineup video even funnier.

I'd say the most common theories as to why Nintendo refused was because of A: their own tournament circuit & B: Because Sony owns EVO

In Nov 2021 Panda Global announced they are partnering w/ Nintendo to do the 1st Officially Licensed Super Smash Bros Circuit for both Ultimate AND Melee, which includes both online and offline matches. With that information in mind Its not that surprising they would pull away from EVO to do they're own thing, b/c its Nintendo and they make some odd choices

If Nintendo wants to do their own tournament, cool. That'll probably bring in Competitive Mario Kart and Smash Bros players considering Mario Kart's season pass for tracks currently going on. If they want to do it, be my guest. But they need to understand people want to play old games and not be confined to their homes to play it, or terrible netcode driving away people wanting to play online games. The Nintendo Switch streaming service from their online bundle is not good enough to support people playing it. Something needs to give.

When was the last “normal” EVO? It seems like the past several EVOs have had a bunch of stuff surrounding them and they end up getting cancelled

I wouldn’t be surprised if this has more to do with Nintendo’s deal with Panda Global for a separate tournament circuit & potentially Nintendo’s apprehension regarding EVO’s new management after what happened with Mr. Wizard than it does with Sony. Nintendo put a shit-ton of marketing into MLB: The Show (a Sony-made game) in the latest Direct, so I doubt that’s the main reason. And MarkMan already said that non-PlayStation games are still fair game for EVO (Ex: Tekken 7 was played on PC instead of PS4 last year). But after the Summer 2020 scandal (where a lot of Smash players & even content creators were exposed as sexual predators), I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo decided to tighten their belts regarding the competitive Smash community. If anything, it feels like Nintendo wants to be more like The Pokémon Company & have their games be more exclusively-handled & hands-on from Nintendo’s end regarding tournaments in an attempt to prevent what happened in 2020 from happening again, to the detriment of the community.

You're right. If it wasn't for Smash I wouldn't even have discovered Twitch. That led me to other fighting games. Your videos (and others) are making people more interested together with the documentaries about fighting games. I'm glad I discovered this community (not so long ago).

Calling Nintendo “frustrating” is like calling Joseph Stalin “a bit of a hardass”

I don't think it's any one thing. More of a combination of factors tipping Nintendo over the threshold: 1.) Nintendo has never been comfortable with others hosting events for their games. (Control freaks) 2.) They are now hosting their own circuit with Panda. 3.) Evo had all of the sexual assault controversy that Nintendo likely wants to steer clear of. 4.) Evo is now owned by Sony.

Love how direct the title is lol Edit: Damn this is the highest voted comment I ever had, thank you all lol

Nintendo doesn’t care about the FGC and I question how many more times they have to prove this for people to figure it out

Nintendo did what? Nintendo of all companies? The company that has been the bane of streamers and fan projects? The company that purposefully limits digital releases to create artificial scarcity? The company that will not fix it's massively prolific controller problem and resisted even admitting to it? That nintendo? No, I don't believe you. Thanks to some random redditor for this copy pasta.

“WTF Nintendo” As a massive Nintendo fan, I feel like I utter those exact words every other week lol

Y'all are crazy if you didn't think this was going to happen after what happened in 2020.

Well, when Smash was first at EVO, it was done without Nintendo’s permission. The guys running EVO that year didn’t even ask Nintendo. They just assumed Nintendo would say “no”.

Either Nintendo knows nothing about the smash competitive community or ACTUALLY KNOW IT well enough, and don't want to associate their kid-friendly brand to all the mess and drama (that more often than not involves minors) that constantly follows

Many of the points that Max is touching on is a possibility, but we cannot forget the stuff that happened within the last couple of years with EVO and the Smash Community that would make sense on Nintendo stepping away so they could not get involved with these problem. It's also a very Japanese/Asian thing where if it caused problem once before they never come back to it cause it was bad.

Not sure if it was that announcement back then when Multiversus was announced, when Panda Global said they will be doing online and offline battles with Nintendo.

I remember sakurai catching himself talking about Sephiroth’s frame data.

I jumped in SF and Tekken just for Smash a year ago, now i'm waiting the DarkStalkers collection

Evo and Smash never really mixed well in the first place though. Yeah FGC does cross pollinate with Smash, but the vast majority of Smash players stick to smash. Remember the outcry about FG characters and command inputs. I remember hearing about how the smash community was boing another game because they wanted to see Melee or Smash 4. Does it suck Nintendo did this? Yes. Should any of us be surprised? No. Plus, Im pretty sure Nintendo is also doing this because of the deal with Panda Global. Nintendo wants full control over their IP.

Nintendo is so good at leaving money on the table. EVO is the biggest fighting game event, it's owned by Sony, Smash is extremely popular, and having Smash on the roster would drive excitement and participation. Get. A. Cut. Obviously I don't know the details of negotiations but we already know Nintendo's history with this. We know they didn't even bother negotiating. They just said no outright. Which is silly.

"No one hates fans of their old games like Nintendo does." Me, the Mega Man Legends, Breath of Fire and Battle Network fan: 🤔

Let’s just remember that Nintendo hasn’t made any official statement on Smash yet. The only information we have is Sony saying that Nintendo “wouldn’t allow smash at evo.” For all we know Nintendo could of asked for money to have their game at evo and the deal fell through. Or Sony could of asked for money to host the tournament and Nintendo refused. We have no clue what happened considering all we have is a vague statement from one side.

*max right. Evo has to really thank smash for helping it get big. The last evo literally had most of the entrants only enter for smash, the numbers are out there. Shits tuff.*

When I played at EVO last year, there was no smash. I do not understand what the problem is this year?

I had steam open up to Elden Ring while watching this and thought Max was screen capping my computer and freaked out

3:19 "You know what I'm not even into this, but this is bullshit." I feel like that's been my mood for the past three years.

I just wanted to say that, smash was what interested me into fighting game and that's probably why or is so sad for me to see smash being pushed away by Nintendo and other member of the fgc

Being a Nintendo fan: high highs, lowest of lows

The caption killed me.😭💀💀💀

Nintendo: Did I just catch you having fun?

To nintendo, games have shelf lives. Once a game "expires," they throw it away and no one is allowed to continue using it. Remember it so they can bank on nostalgia with merchandise, but don't play the actual game.

On top of what Max mentioned, I don't think Nintendo wants their product associated with all the sexual harassment, misconduct, and statutory rape stuff that broke summer 2020. There were more than a handful of prominent players and commentators, pretty much the face of their game to the competitive scene, involved in a lot of these issues. Nintendo hired some of them and promoted them at Nintendo sanctioned events too.

What is the name of the song used as background music in this video? Heard it plenty of times, it's so cool!

Never thought I’d see the day where Max mentions Project M in a video, you love to see it

Is it possible that Nintendo wants to separate itself from the competitive smash scene due to the drama that’s happened for years?

Also max what's the music in the background? sounds great like it's from sfex3 or something.

The Panda Global is basically another tournament but with blackjack and hookers. Though missing out on EVO is pretty huge. I still feel like Nintendo could have allowed it to happen, but Nintendo actually being involved to make a tourney with Melee happen is dope.

Remember 2020? I think Nintendo doesn’t wanna take anymore risks.

I don't think it's about Sony and it's about the EVO scandals. Companies will do that a lot, pull out of events when scandals occur, especially companies like Nintendo that don't have a major stake in an event. They could come back in a few years when they feel comfortable but feel bad for the players who wanted to play at EVO.

Nintendo should do their own tournament.

Yeah, knew it was going to happen but I'm pretty sure Super Smash Con is a bit close after EVO.

I'm not completely familiar with EVO and Smash tournaments as I try to stay away from it. But last I remember 2020 was just a horrible year for both Smash and EVO in regards to some serious allegations. Various people getting outed for some serious misconduct. So when I hear that no Smash for EVO 2022. I think maybe Nintendo wants to distance themselves as much as possible from all that negative press and do there own thing. Kinda already see that with there Directs.

Smash Bros' absence leaves a golden opportunity for Multiversus to fill the void...

Nintendo really dislikes F-Zero fans...😬🙄

Smash at evo 2019 got me to cross over into fighting games proper.

Everybody: Sony is saving evo! Nintendo: no smash at evo! Everyone: surprised pikachu face.

Let's see, Sony recently bought EVO and EVO had a bunch of competitive Smash players revealed to be sexual predators two years ago. Can't imagine why Nintendo would want to hold their own Smash tournaments.

Smash Ultimate Tournaments are gonna become like an underground fight ring in an abandoned warehouse lol.

I agree, Smash was my first fighting game, then KOF, then Tekken.

The funny thing is there are people out there who actually believed that Sony is at fault here. Its either "Sony shouldn't have bought evo" or Nintendo never back out, fcking Sony removed it because they're petty as fck.🤣🤣

Sony owns EVO Nintendo still got beef with Sony 1 + 1 = Fish

*Guilty Gear & KOF15 will be the biggest games at EVO this year hopefully DNF duel be release before EVO kicks off so it can be apart of EVO this year*

One less games isn't gonna affect Evo Raiden:It's just nature running It's course

considering Sony bought EVO i guess Nintendo just doesnt want them to make money

I doesn't surprised me at all I a college student and a bunch of other school was trying to make a collegiate smash esports but Nintendo shut that down before starting. So we had to do some wierd arrangements to make tournaments.

Now they have their own event, which they have control over, I can see wanting to be careful around competitive (considering all 4 winners 2015-2018 are banned for various horrible reasons)

In terms of new fighting games in the FGC I want to see Virtua Fighter 6 become a reality from Sega. If Sony acquires Square Enix we welcome them back in the 3D fighting space since arcades/PS1 era. Return of Tobal? Seems outdated today. Ehrgeiz and Bushido Blade would make most sense to bring back in terms of Square Enix's current image. Smash is not the end of the world. I think the industry needs more fighting games in the 3D scene. Team Ninja made questionable decisions with DOA6 when there were barely any competition in that space. Namco waited long with Soul Calibur VI and gave it a low budget and Tekken 7 improved from the mistakes that Tekken 6 caused. I think FGC can grow if these companies start pumping more money into fighting games, especially Square Enix and Sega. Not sure if Capcom will spend money on a Rival Schools sequel or anything from theirs in the 3D space. Is the new leaked Power Stone to have 3D gameplay? If so, there is a small chance Rival Schools might make a comeback someday depending on Power Stone's success.

Didn't Capcom have problems bringing MvsC to evo because Marvel is owned by Disney? Well, now that Sora is in Smash Ultimate...do you think maybe that has something to do with it? Isn't Sora owned more by Disney than SquareEnix? Maybe Disney wants their cut in the profits of potentially having their character showcased in the tournament. IDK.

So to summarize, just Nintendo being Nintendo.

Smash not being at Evo got me looking into other fighting games. Specifically introducing me to 3rd strike and this channel

They used to be NintenDO, now they’re NintenDON’T.

Nintendo being an intellectual property jerk is really insulting considering how they would have never grown beyond Radarscope if they didn't fight off an even bigger IP jerk in Universal Pictures during the Donkey Kong lawsuit.

Ppl must forgot what goes on at smash tournaments

Rivals of Aether: “Allow us to introduce ourselves.”

Nintendo's goal has always been the same. "We know fun. We will TELL you how to have fun."

Explanation: Because Nintendo

I wasn't in the scene at the time, but I do remember a thing ign or some news tuber did. I remember Nintendo was dragging their feet hard, like Sony and cross play really frustrating stuff.

Word? Street fighter 4 and Tekken is what got me introduced to fgc competitive scene. I already grew up playing alpha 3 and Tekken 3 so I thought the big boom of fgc awareness was because of SF4.

Nintendo is the most unpredictable company

This sucks for ppl who play smash ultimate competitively and dreaming of winning evo and all that, its such a shame Nintendo always pull these things off, even tho Smash on evo have some great moments its not on the level of hype on Tekken & Street fighter, Arslan battles with knee, Tokido 2017 run etc. But i still feel this should be sorted

Noooo moooore Smash *[BASS BOOM]*

Michael Cole: "Vintage Nintendo!"

To be fair, evo IS owned by PlayStation now

It is true that EVO is the biggest event when it comes to the Smash competitive. And that Smash is the biggest game on EVO's lineup (in 2019 Smash Ultimate literally was the most viewed game in all EVO's history) But, for the smash scene, EVO it's only a name. There's no really big deal with the game getting out (maybe the legacy). The community is already making an EVO substitute at Las Vegas. And Nintendo is making their own Melee/Ultimate circuit with Panda Global. The olnly one who really lost something is EVO. This is not an "anti competitive" thing at all, it is just an conflict of interests.

Nintendo is being Nintendo.They have always been strange.

“EVO gonna smell a lot better” lol

Nintendo just doesn't care about their fans anymore. Greed is their primary motivation. Makes me really disappointed, but not surprised.

I mean the smash community allegations and their terrible handling of the safety of the minors in their community make me not dislike this news..

Waiting for that Panda Global Nintendo circuit announced last year… assuming they didn’t cancel it

"Long story short".. 14 minutes later: "I am not okay with this"

There's not much overlap between smash and other fighting games in evo entrants. Someone did research on this, smash players rarely ever register for other games at evo, and vice versa. It makes sense, platform fighters are very different from traditional fighters.

To quote another KZfaqr, "It's getting really difficult to like Nintendo."

Anyone wanna remind Nintendo about Phillips and the CD-I?

This is free melee all over again

"That looks fun.... I'm over here playing Tekken 7... And I'm willing to play another game with terrible fucking netcode." I fucking choked XD

Only 4 min in but I just wanted to comment now since this is something I think about a lot: Smash really helped to push the FGC into more a limelight then ever before, and I don't think the FGC would be where it is in terms of size and scope if it wasn't for Smash. I remember people saying that Smash wasn't ever going to be a big esports title like SF and MK because it was the "party game", but without Smash players branching out and getting interesting in other fighting games, these games wouldn't be at the size they are now. I know that my brother and I would've never gotten into fighting games like GG, BB, DBFZ and KoF if Smash hadn't blown up at gotten into Evo 2013. It just confuses me how many people love to shit on Ult/Melee despite those games being fantastic entry games for getting into fighting games as a genre, and how many people play both "traditional" fighting games and Smash.

What is the OST playing in the background it’s dope

Just wanted to say I came from Ultimate and am now playing BBTAG on Switch and am highly considering to play GG Strive on PC. Sure I've played the OG GG, Bloody Roar and who knows what installment of Tekken when I was younger but Smash made me look into fighting games after it has left my mind for more than a decade. Timeline: I watch Baumi who plays DOTA2 and loves Smash Bros Melee, been hearing about it from him for years, Ultimate came out and got hooked on to Nairo and Hbox, Hbox talks about when he won EVO 2016, watched that and noticed Evo moment with that dude blocking Chun Li multi hit, felt nostalgic on fighting games, got GGXX Core Plus R when I finally got a Switch to play Ultimate, and finally am now casually playing BBTAG and have now learnt Yukiko + Rachel and Nu + Yosuke. Back to fighting games all because dude I watched for years loved Smash and the hype for Ultimate caught my attention. Also May is my fav in the og gg so I might pick her back up when I do play Strive. I heard Totsugeki is something I should focus on with her :)

I host my FGC locals with the Smash community and everyone was excited to go in both communities and hearing this was crushing because friends who are cross community won't be able to go with each other and it really sucks.

Genuinely, after the Panda Global deal for an official Ultimate AND Melee circuit, why would Nintendo need to be at Evo anymore? It's not going to get more eyes on the game, everyone who wants to play Smash is already playing Smash, people who have always complained about Smash taking up a slot get it freed up, I don't see what the big problem is here.

Can't wait to see Keef dancing in the corner when Nintendo and Sony are arguing.

To me Smash has the technical aspect, but it's also fun to have an all star cast just go at it. It's like the VS games, ya know?

Nintendo is that kind of company that dosnt know how to treat its players and refuse to give any sort of comunication, is sad how people still deffend and idolise them like they are the perfect company

Imho Nintendo doesn't see their IP as games. They see them as limited run experiences. Its why it took literally 3 decades for Mother and Earthbound to become available outside of Roms. If you didn't get the game at the right time, and you're in the wrong region, too bad. And that leads to competitive Smash. Why replay Melee, Brawl or even Ultimate? Limited run, those experiences are over.

hmm maybe the cannon brothers may announce something for Project L during evo day 2

Tbh I myself consider that I'm a case of jumping from Smash to other fighting games, I used to play a little bit of MvC back when there were arcades in my country like... When I was like 6 or 7 years old but I was never too into that. When I got older and started playing Melee with some kids in the neighborhood THAT'S when I felt I started to understand a little bit what makes fighting games cool, from then on I played a ton of Smash and, though I never became good at any standard fighting games, play some others like Street Fighter or Tekken. I never became good because I never had the money to have a machine that could run them I did have a lot of fun with them even if I stayed on the campaign mode... Nowadays I'm trying to improve more on standard fighting games rather than on Smash because it feels pointless doing so seeing how Nintendo treats the community, I get that playing for "bragging rights" is fun but there should be a little bit more to it. If there was a way to convince Nintendo to play nice with other companies then that would be great but they are so stubborn that attempting to do it might result in worse punishments for the fanbase... Sorry if I dragged this for too long but I had to let people know that some of us Smash fans DO enjoy the FGC part of it as well and it also pains me to see how many people on the FGC are happy that Smash won't be on their event anymore

Let's see... -Well Nintendo already made a competitive Smash deal with Panda Global last year, which likely conflicts with Evo in several ways. -Sony owns Evo now and Sony's games division is being run in the U.S. now (which is even more isolated from Nintendo's Japanese hq). So the two companies which already weren't close are even further apart in more ways than one. If it were Microsoft running Evo it'd be less of a problem despite also being U.S. based as Microsoft and Nintendo have been playing nice for the past 5 years or so. -The competitive Smash community has unfortunately become synonymous with sexual predators and people that have a distinct lack of personal hygiene, both of which are not what you want associated with your game (especially if you're Nintendo with your family friendly image). Nintendo wants to be able to control competitive Smash's image a lot more in light of that. -Evo (much like E3) has lost relevance in recent years, and Smash is big enough to be able to do its' own thing (hence the Panda Global deal), it doesn't really need Evo and Evo could use its' big viewership numbers more than Smash could use Evo. -Unfortunately a decent amount (at least a vocal minority) of the fighting game community are stuck up elitists who don't even see Smash as a real fighting game anyway. It's not the majority, the majority is more like Max and can enjoy fighting games in all their forms, but it's enough to make it another point where the section of Nintendo that deals with this stuff can just say "we don't need them". -There were already issues before with Smash's iffy online and Evo (considering other Nintendo games -including fighters- use rollback, I'm still not sure why Smash doesn't; Arms and Pokken Tournament run a hell of a lot smoother online). Honestly as odd as some of the decisions of parts of Nintendo (outside of their developers) can be this one isn't really some weird wacky choice.

Imagine being fake mad about a company that doesn't want their game to be at a physical event that was once run by a child predator and was one of the many meeting grounds where other child predators met up with their adoring underage fans