"The Flight Controller's given up and said 'I'm heading right back to China'" This guy 😂

I literally laughed at the diagrams! That's just brilliant. I don't even care if I agree with you or not after that! Hahaha!

You make it all sound so easy... "avoid flying into the ground". The Rutherford quote about clear explanations springs to mind, I'm sure it's way more complex under the surface.

Thanks for the heads up and great info! I’ve never flown my DJI Avata that crazy yet to experience what the others are. So far so good!

I like these sort of videos the mostest. Really this is keeping within the manufacturer limits in flight

A Great post with a simple explanation.

As always Bruce - great explanation. 🙂🙂

When it happened to my Avata, during a filming job, the left yaw rate was very gentle. The wind was calm. Nothing was yawing, pitching or rolling fast. I was at full speed in Sport mode, chasing a side-by-side down a road. I gently yawed to the left enough to slowly move to the left of the road into a field. All of a sudden, it did the fast pitching motion for a moment. During this, I had no control, but did regain control before it fell very far. I continued the chase but it was totally unexpected.

Hi Bruce, thanks for the description of yaw wash out, very clear and well presented. I’m only flying the Avata in Manual mode, and it seems to perform well, I guess I’ve been lucky, so far… I have noticed a small amount of wobble in fast yaw turns, both left & right, but it very quickly recovers as you describe. I have upped the RC rates centre 400, max rate 1080 and an expo 0.54, to match my 5”, and I am now very happy with flight performance. David

I have yet to test this. I’ve been flying DJI Avata just to get more creative with my shots and aerial content has been nothing but much more thrilling to watch thanks to this drone.

Best (and only?) explanation of yaw washout on the internet!

Such an amazing source of knowledge, thank you, sir!🙏🏼

you to me are the true guru man, I watch, listen and LEARN so much from you, one day I'll learn how to make my own diversity receiver from you for fatsharks, the parts are cheap id like to do it myself, but there's no real tutorial out there, not like the way you'd do it anyway(in my friend group I refer to you as the holder of the matrix , Quaddamus Prime !) my crew says "reeespppect !" we love ya dude!

Great explanation, Bruce! Thanks! 😃 I hope DJI does something to fix it! Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Great information!

Almost lost an Avata at work today to yaw washout, and as a 5-inch pilot the vast majority of the time I had no idea what the hell happened when I tried to pull a high-G yaw/roll turn and the Avata flipped itself over and went straight into normal mode, locking me out of manual until I reset the controls. Thank god I had 30 or so feet of altitude because it very easily could've blown itself to pieces on the asphalt. Never had that happen on any of my quads and I'm trying to avoid having an expensive conversation with my boss.

wow this video is so good, thank you so much, please continue with this avata topic. I have two avatas, I don't know that to do know. My avatas directly start to make 180 degree tumble when I make a fast flat yaw turn

Thanks I learned something great video!!

Wooooow Very high quality content! Thank you so much ❤️

Thanks Bruce.

Thank you so much,

Thanks Bruce !

1st..love the drawings! Spot On! 😂😂. Great overview of the issue people are reporting. I have the AVATA and can confirm it’s definitely limited to “manual more”. I’ve seen none of these issues in GPS modes (Normal & Sports Mode). Your the “calm voice” of reason on the crazy KZfaq world! I’ve totally customized my AVATA by hard wiring a GoPro Bones to it so not going to speculate on issue. Hopefully, it all gets figured out. Always enjoy your take on a subject. 👍👍👍

I think the software may be contributing...in some videos the home point moves during flight maybe an indication of more issues...just a thought......great explanation!

I hope dji can make it better with some updates. I dont fly manual with the avata that often, so I have never experienced this. Feels really stable in Normal and Sports mode. So over water I just fly careful without changing direction that quick.

thanks for the educational video, i will go to bed smarter tonight 👏👍👍

Wow! Luckily I’m just happy flying my DJI Avata on normal mode. I guess others need to chill a bit and not fly it so aggressively. I think DJI Avata is something you fly to get cinematic shots while also having a more adventurous moves but nothing too crazy. It’s a fantastic tool if used correctly. But thanks for all the info. I’ve got so much to learn first. Just my humble opinion.

I think the issue is there rate controller for there drones is quite weak and it seems to not be able to deal with a situation of excessive error very well. They should put a form of anti crash into there firmware like the feature in betalight where when it recognises its lost control it switches quickly into a mode using the accelerometer to help it regain control of the drone.

Great explanation Bruce. So you chase fast moving vehicles at your own risk if you want to keep them in shot?

It's not really a duct, doesn't have the effect of one (would have to be deeper to be a duct, as with the first drone you showed). It's simply a prop guard. I love your diagrams!

RobHK (I think his name on KZfaq is) said in a post within the last few days that DJI had "told him" that they've fixed "the problem" in a firmware update. He was the guy who lost his flying over rocks near the ocean. Here's the quote from a post of his "I was confirmed by DJI, that the crash problems is fixed with the latest firmware update."... So if that's to be considered true and correct, DJI have acknowledged an issue, at least.

17:19 I only have around 30-35 flights on mine and had this happen once about 120-150cm off ground while I was doing a hard *right* yaw pushing it chasing a dirt bike. And it didn't crash, stabilised a few cm off the ground. I think the reason it seems to mostly happen in left turns is people generally prefer turning left with quads 😄 Anyway, a bit early to say, but I'm almost sure it's overblown way out of proportion based on my experience, and I wouldn't normally fly a whoop like I did when it happened to me, but Avata kept up with the dirt bikes so well that for a second I forgot I was flying an underpowered brick. Still, DJI should definitely look into it and do whatever can be done to make it less likely to happen, or at least to make it more likely to recover if it's physically impossible to prevent.

I think problem is connected with safety features inside software, betaflight fights to keep quad till is disarmed. Problem is exagerated by worse power to weight ratio due to big battery and efficient powertrain not optimised for raw power.

It looks to be props in. I wonder if it would still happen with props out. What do u think?

What a great explanation. DJI are not taking responsibility for this. Are you Aussie? Where? So good to meet a smart one. Not common.

Sounds logical. As a newbie with only the Motion Controller, I've yet to encounter any problem. But I'll keep an eye on those left hand turns. Have you seen the video of the guy flying over a river with the motion controller and his AVATA kept losing altitude? It then started flying in an unstable manner and went backward which isn't supposed to be possible. He attempted to get it to shore, but it smacked into the river and drowned. He killed comments for some reason, but the footage is still up for viewing. Flight Controller error? Love to hear your take. It was posted Oct 4th on Gary Bell's channel. The title is DJI AVATA Malfunction.

Ring vortex used to happen on my small BRUSHED whoops :-)

The short answer, its not a race quad, its not a freestyle quad its a cinewhoop. Its for a very specific type of flying/filming and if you fly outside of that you could possibly get a washout flip. if you are flying faster than a slow jog or in strong winds get racer or a freestyle not a whoop. This is DJI first cinewhoop I am sure they have a lot to learn.

mine is crashing too? can they fix this with software??

Yay, an other whiteboard class! 😊 Teach teacher.

Really bad because this might also happen if you fly manually in turbulent strong wind conditions which normally isn't really a problem for most drones.

Props out vs props in issue?

Justin Davies has a video explaining why the AVATA has the issue, he stated that it’s from the big ducts and flight controller having a bit of a spaz under high loads at speed. Not sure if you’ve seen it yet.

Every DJI drone has tilted motors to aid yaw. But this one doesn't because of duct I guess!

Wow im seeing Avata issues all over KZfaq now, so many people posting how it's just crashing especially in manual. There is something seriously wrong with this drone. Im loving my Dji FPV i was thinking about getting the avata to film in tighter spaces and also for my real estate business but idk man i think we need to wait a few more months for this drone to get some firmware because people having them go haywire with simple turns mid air and just falling to their death either on land or water, not good at all if they cant fix this with a firmware then sadly a recall

I wonder if it is suffering from Gyro Overflow. 🤔

You have to take into consideration that DJI makes film making tools not race quads or freestyle quads. The average film maker is going to most likely fly at much slower speeds and smoother motion. If the film maker wants to shoot more fast pace aggressive filming they will use the tool that DJI created for that. The DJI Fpv, was made for aggressive fast pace flying. The avata was designed for a cinematic fpv filming experience in close proximity to people and structures with smooth flowing movement. They did limit the yaw rate by releasing it with the motion controller. The dji fpv was for fast filming for chasing cars and stuff like that, the Avata was not. If you use these tools for what they were designed for, you’ll likely have no problems. The real problem is trying to race a donkey like a thoroughbred

Interesting idea but no, the difference between the Avata and your other Cinewhoops is that it is top-heavy which initiates FC freakout and tumble.

Funny, it reminds me of how the dji Naza in the early days would not handle high 'G"s... remember it would start to barrel roll in the air as we got to be better pilots and make sharp moves... so may be it is more fc limitations than aerodynamics.... but still... I love that Avata...

Each time you attempt a silly yaw spin, Goose spins in his grave.

You cannae change the laws of physics Jim lol 😂

Pushers suck, imho. Whoops handle far better, and are much quieter. The top-mounted battery is less than optimal, compared to a transverse, under-slung mount. My daily driver's a 100mm, 2S beastie, 125g AUW. I run 1104 7500 Kv motors with Gemfam D51 ducted props. Absolutely zero yaw washout. I've tried it several times as a pusher: it's twitchy, less efficient, and sounds like I'm making a smoothie with live kittens. Could be the duct's shape, but it felt weird in the handling department. That broomstick feeling sucks. . .

I really feel like DJI has themselves in a real pickle. Their customer base just wants to fly things without needing any knowledge of how things work, and then apparently manual mode really isn't full manual mode as the Avata appears to try some sort of self recovery. IMO it might just be better if manual mode was really acro mode light Betaflight

Hi Bruce, Great video, leave it to you for a 20 minute video on why a brick won't fly. I have been saying from the beginning that I didn't think that the avata ducts were not going to work. They designed it with 1/4 of the ducts covered and the motors are to small, and of course it's a pig. Thanks again for the information on why the AVATA is going to fail.

I think it's the shape of the ducks themselves, I don't have one so I don't know but maybe you room remove the ducks and test it

Bad pid loop, going to invalid values . Not enought clamping for intégral term. Big software bug.

I think it's a return to home issue. It's returning to the ground instead.

I have a couple good examples of this happening to my Avata..

I prefer the Dsynch explanation of Justin Davis, and the physic efect of mass top in a long extensión of frame body and post tumble with the inmediate trust lost of Joshua BARDWELL....

Hopefully dji will come up with a software update that should fix the problem with it, because otherwise it is a ripper of a quad.

Couldn't have said it better myself... No really I couldn't.

Now they are saying it's a software issue.

Here in Brazil there is a popular saying, which is more or less that and says "killed the snake and showed the dick". And Bruce, that's exactly what you did with this Avata problem, you identified the cause and showed the solution.

I think that sounds like a software bug maybe they are just tracking 180 degrees and lazy coder goofed

Lol "...I'm headed back to China."

It's a DJI product. That means I won't waste my money on one.

I think you are all just too harsh on Avata. I was flying it yesterday in manual and flies really great. I normaly fly my ImpulseRc APEX HD 5” on Kiss. It probably has some issue but its showing by missuse. Its cinematic cinewhoop. Its for nice flow videos, not for racing turns. I have seen most of avata crashes and those pilots just dont fly it like that. They turn quickly not tilting inside curve, just ugly fast flat turn or tilt it to outside turn.

There only been one vortex that I have been affected by, since flying FPV. That's the money-sucking one.

I don't think your yaw turbulence explanation is correct. The linear yaw rotation speed is less than a regular forward flight linear speed. The turbulences are not that signifiant and are less than in forward flight (accounting also for forward flight angle). The drop on big yaw movement is due the the FC software (inherent limitations + bug) and how PID loops and I integration works + the fact that same motors must correct both yaw, pitch and roll angles + the fact that motor thrust is limited, not infinite. Plus, the fact that Avata does not recover on such instabilities and ends up going inverted, is also purely a FC software issue/bug. Any decent FC software (ArduPilot, BF) can recover from impossible positions (hint: check out ArduPilot throw mode).

AVATA IS TRAAAAAAASH

Lucky it doesn't have folding arms. Beta stick to Beta-flight and stuff that has been developed by enthusiasts not by Bachelors of Com Sci.

Pilot Error........... Most of these guys are trying to fly the Avata like a Freestyle god in a manner the quad was never designed to fly. The Avata is made for slow close proximity flying mainly indoors and around actors. It is not made for high speed dynamic chasing or doing tricks. What is happening is the exterior forces are exceeding the FC capability to react to them. Thus the quad falls into an unrecoverable death roll...Custom builds used to have the same problem when we were overloading the Processor on our FC's running 8k/8k on an F3 board the FC would get overloaded and shut the whole thing down putting you into the death roll.....DJI marketing makes it seam like anyone can just take one of their products of the shelf and get amazing cinematic quality footage.. That is far from the truth.