“Suppression without movement is a waste of ammunition. Movement without suppression, is suicide.” OEF USMC VET

I think the misconception comes from the booger-eaters who wear their chest rig on their stomach instead of their chest.

Lol, you know how much crap they strapped on me as a Grunt SAW gunner? 600 rounds on my molle gear, 2 grenades, a squad radio, a signal jammer on one shoulder, an extra barrel over my other shoulder, backpack with camelback and 2 100 round patrol pouches, flare pen, personal sony video camera, helmet, eye pro, I was also a combat lifesaver so I had a giant buttpack full of medical supplies, bullet proof vest with front/back/side plates, groin protector, throat protector, flexy cuffs, and anything mission dependent. I still could get down in prone and shoot. In fact, I love when they posted me on a corner or in a compound so my heavy geared ass could lay down and take the weight off my shoulders.

l'll never forget the Drill Sergeant stepping on my head during Basic to teach me to "keep my head down" while low-crawling 🤣🤣🤣.

Age old battle between people who have never done it vs people who think they'll be fighting a conventional war with a country backing them

My belly has been keeping me from getting down into the prone for the past 2 decades, never-mind a "chest rig".

A 200lb grunt in LBE with an M60 can completely find cover behind a rock the size of a basketball if properly motivated. A ZSU23-4 can provide that motivation. Verified.

"why are you in an open field?" Cause the nearest tree or hill is 7 miles out

I joined in 1995 and retired in 2018….as an 0311 and later 0321. Our gear changed as time went on with the environment. I started off with an LBV/LBE to Molle/IBA to a heavy plate carrier to a slimmed down plate carrier and a battle belt. The amount of equipment never changed just how we carried it did. I’m up they see me…I’m down hasn’t changed since rifles and the soldier’s shooting became accurate.

I enjoy your presentation of the material. Straight forward, simple and without the typical "operator" attitude we see on many channels. If you were this patient and clear in instruction in the Army, you were likely a very good leader. Semper Fi from an old Marine.

I was 0341 in 1975 - 1977. We were issued the old flak jacket then they loaded us up with lots of ammo and because we were mortars add base plate or tripod or the tube and other stuff. Going prone then getting up to run beat you to death. I glad to see that the powers that be got you younger Grunts lighter gear. The down side is that it appears they also loaded you up with more stuff so your combat load looks about the same weight or more. Embrace the suck. Semper Fi.

Back in 2002, we were taught the “high crawl” and “low crawl”. GP demonstrated both in this video. I think the US Army took what Carlos Hathcock, the famous sniper, did in Vietnam, (low crawling into enemy lines, shooting then low crawling back undetected over 3 days) and the US Army thought, “Good idea. We’ll teach this tactic to every infantryman.” GP said in earlier comment, “context matters”. I would say low crawl only works if the enemy is not looking for you. If they know you are there, you need to be doing a different tactic, [pointing your weapon]. Also, MAC-V SOG guys practiced hip firing. They noticed that first soldier to fire on target won. So they practiced hip firing with BB guns until they could shoot quarters at like 10’. Then they switch to their combat rifles. They said that “trick shot school” took about a week. Lessons learned and forgotten.

Gotta love Keyboardwarriors. Never stepped foot in a combat zone, never signed up for the military, but are more qualified in everything they saw a Video on once.

The only way you conduct "I'm up, they see me, I'm down" is if you have superior suppressive fire lol. Facts!

Lesson from Ukraine: Don't go prone in front of a drone.

. Blessed Easter, gents.

I saw first hand how easily a small amount of movement could be helpful... I had a combatant 40 yards out and by the time I switched off the safety and pressed the trigger, he had taken his left foot and moved it to the rear, essentially, becoming a third of the original size toward me... As I fired three quick shots I saw sparks from the metal pickets that were downrange behind him... The last round I got off seemed to also mis the intended target..( but this one was at a full profile, still moving away ). It was like what the f just happened... Later I found the fourth shot went through his side and his fore arm leaving him unable to grip a fire arm again... The big take away for me though was how easily a small amount of movement could keep incoming rounds from hitting the target... and at a very close distance. This might be way out there but, I believe that if caught in the open I would rather " Range walk " and try to put effective fire on the location that I was receiving fire from... Nothing works better to stop someone from shooting at you, than accurate fire, and nothing works better to avoid incoming fire than movement... If I lay on the ground I'm just a target... If I'm walking brickly and sending accurate fire I'm a threat and dangerous...!

EXCELLENT real world Advice! Don't let yourself get in DANGER AREAS to begin with! There are BETTER METHODS to approach these field problems. USE YOUR HEAD AND THINK!

I think it’s cool that it’s over 34 years since I was in, and still understood everything you were saying. The summer of ‘88 I’m in Germany. I’m my platoon leaders RTO, carrying a PRC-77. LT decides he “needs more organic firepower at his disposal,” (he was a former high school history teacher, that’s how he talked). So he decides that I’ll also carry one of the first Gen M249’s, as well. Every time I went prone the radio would push up on the back of my helmet, making it so that I’d have to raise my eyeballs up so high, that my pupils would have looked like they were at the highest point just under the top of my eye socket. To make matters worse was I was in shape, but never built for speed, but I was able to hang. I kind of felt like the LT hung an extra target on me, daring some Russian or East German sniper to earn a twofer.😎✌️

Stand fast for freedom

You have never fired in the prone position until you have fired an ak sideways aiming off the charging handle.

My old ass cant get into the prone position without a chest rig and if I manage to fall into the prone position that's where I'll stay . I've fallen and I can't get up 🤣

As a machinegunner, I much preferred a belt rig. I deployed with two torn and prolapsed disks in the lumbar spine. Wore an 8-point harness with body armour seperate over the top of the harness. 800 rounds of 7.62x51 belt is 20kg of ammo. That’s a very awkward load to place entirely on the shoulders. Belt rig puts it on the hips.

Great block here. This should be played for flipping West Pointers and OCS "leaders". We learned and changed our gear and racks so often in the Korengal it was absolutely mission dependent loadouts for the last year we were there.

I've been yelling this to most people that I train with, fundamentals first, know your basic infantry skills and of movement, concilment, Cover!, and tactics...everybody who hadn't served in 11brovo or type units think spec ops tactics equates to superior survivability,3To 5 sec ,and get the hell off the danger ao...anywhos love your channel hope you push more wisdom out to the REMF.Airborne.

I was one of the commentators that asked for your perspective on this very topic and you delivered, kudos.

Of course, I can get prone with a chest rig, right now. I'm a elephant, my head is swollen after brain surgery/cancer, my belly is full of fluids during chemotherapy..... I just need a bomb crater to get flat & prone😂😂 Never ever stop fighting and going forward, no matter what!

I just happened to come across your channel, I really appreciate you common sense approach to these topics. I think most of these things just get repeated so much no one actually question's them. Great work.

I remember all the points you spoke of. You aren't mocking the stupid enough! Great job!!

I wouldn't worry much about a chest rig when that 30 round mag doesn't let you get your weapon up and into the fight from a prone position without more exposure than caused by your chest rig.

Great instruction. Your service is much appreciated!

You know Randall, all of these couch gunners need to get a 7-8 and find some old infantry grunts and have a conversation. Well done, stay safe.

I like your basic but detailed explanations on surviving contact.

I appreciate the fact you are pointing out the realities of what actually occurs in a fire fight. I do have one counter to this video and that is, those who don’t know will more than likely never know, because they will never find themselves in a situation to have to know. Dumb is fixable, stupidity is incurable.

According to KZfaq it seems like people suggest the following: No plate carrier, no chest rig, no belts, no backpack, no sidearm. Apparently we should all run a rifle in a sling damn near naked with maybe another mag in your back pocket.

Thank you. I get so tired of hearing this. I am a big dude and can still get prone with double mags on the front of my PC.

At 68 I doubt if it will matter much to me. All of my chest rigs and plate carriers are set up to carry six 30 round rifle magazines and 3 pistol magazines plus IFAK, canteen and other items. My team will be here on the farm when SHTF. We are planning on bugging in, although we have a plan b and a plan c if needed. Keep Prepping my friends.

I'm retired Army and haven't done movement techniques in a long while but your opening movement scene has inspired me to start incorporating this into my workouts because it brought back how bad those sucked.

Bruh, your wrong, all the movies & vids i watch from my moms guest suite, (basement), show your clearly wrong....😊

Experience is the best teacher for sure. Thanks again for getting that experience while protecting our asses back home.

This whole misconception is pushed by Big Belt Rig to sell more belts.

If you're really worried about it, they make split-front rigs that you can unzip/unbuckle and flap out of the way when you prone out.

When you were full face down, all I could think was "Tactical starfish!" 😆

I worked on an LEO Tac/Narcotics team and we were in and out of vehicles a lot and some were small under cover vehicles with limited room. I learned real quick to keep the amount of stuff I had stacked on my chest to a minimum and as flat as possible, especially if I was driving. We'd wear soft armor with over vests or chest rigs and a gunbelt. We didn't carry near as much gear as a soldier nor require near as much ammo may have to carry. As they always say, the mission drives the gear. My typical load on the chest rig was 2xAR mags, Radio, Taser, a pistol mag to supplement the 3 on my belt, an admin pouch, extra flashlight, flex cuffs and cutter.

When I was a seabee we were issued the modular tactical vest. Sure it offered decent protection. But it was heavy and very difficult to get prone while wearing a Kevlar and getting in and out of vehicles also hard. And in the Mississippi heat becoming a heat casualty was almost guaranteed and leaders were unwilling to allow situation dictates. Multiple seabees with prickly heat rash and needing IV fluids during summer field exercises. Being able to move quickly and utilize cover and get up move and down quickly is just as important as the SAPI plates

I think the problem seems to be that most people don't understand the difference between "prone" and "low crawl". "Prone" means you still have work to do. It's not an excuse for a nap. You have to be able to observe and engage targets as necessary. "Low crawl" is litterally hugging the ground as you are taking fire...and yes, you are moving towards the target...or at least cover in that direction. This concept of get down and hide is childish and will get people hurt fast. Soldiers are there to do a job. Set your gear up to do just that. Best of luck, Phil

Great vid. Mobility equals survivability. Prone or take a knee upon contact, get rounds down and maneuver. 🤙🏻

The way I always thought of it was practicality and sacrifice. In the same way we sacrifice speed for armor or armor for speed depending on the circumstance, we sacrifice getting completely flat for a practical means of carrying accessible ammo and gear to be as effective as possible for returing fire. Rounds down range.

never been in combat but what you say makes total sense brother.

Good video. I've been out since 93. But some things don't change. Stay out of the open, shoot, move and communicate. Know the difference between cover and concealment. Keep your battle rattle under control.

This is the part where the "What if" police come out.

Lies! Chest rigs are useless. Sell them quick and cheap. Very cheap. To me.

My preferred go to TAPS has 2.5-3" added thickness. If you're wearing a chest rig as a chest rig not a belly band it actually adds some nice stability while prone. And if you're actually doing SMCS the amount of time it might be a discomfort is minimal.

The only time hugging the ground is a good idea is when taking indirect fire. You can’t return fire on an artillery battery 10+ miles away with your rifle.

Chest rigs are awesome. I just ran one for a week in the field with double stacked mags and it really doesn’t make too much difference in how low you can get… as Randal explained, rarely are you doing the low crawl… but the access to ammo makes a huge difference.

Agreed. Additionally, when we're wearing chest rigs without plate carriers, it's generally for security by speed. So, holding and fighting (especially out in the open) is not advisable. It always comes back to knowing why you're wearing what you're wearing, and why you're doing what you're doing. Of course, with certain things, different units have different philosophies. So, (and this definitely applies to minutemen/CitMil) when you have special units comprised of guys from various branches and units, we do additional training together to make sure we're all on the same page and are operating under the same philosophies. A lot of guys have had different experiences during GWOT. I'm simply speaking from mine, but not saying anyone else's was wrong.

In our day in my country we called it "lug en grond verkenning" loosely translated as (air and ground recon) bounding, you asses targets and cover while down and firing, you adjust and re assess while up. Even a termite mound or log or a shallow ditch spotted while up is in fact some cover. Tedious as hell and tires you out real fast.

Good 'ol IMT's, good stuff brother, easy peasy going prone with a CR.

I bought a chest spring rig from ACME so I can fire on the way down and it will bounce me right back up so I can keep going.

The main concerns are mud and shrapnel. Hug the ground, move while they reload mortar, keep magazines clean.

You said the golden answer...use what works for you! What ever you are comfortable with. All gear has advantages and disadvantages.

5:00 digging your mag into the ground will give you much more support and lowers your profile. Modern magazines will not cause a malfuction if you apply upward force to them.

I was only trained with Alice gear, LBE and medium Alice rucksack. I’m curious about the chest rigs, but I haven’t decided to dive in yet. At 54, I may just stick with what I know forever. Great video! I love the explanations, as I see all kinds of crap on the net.

Yup, Im a belt kit guy. The prone thing with chest rigs always seemed odd.

I like chest rigs and jungle kit/ PLCE gear. For me, the PLCE can be preferred in the summer with 90% humidity. Having the airflow is great. If running a chest rig in the summer I highly prefer an open front. It really gets hard to breath down here on the coast sometimes.

I think the only legitimate concern in this context is to be as low as possible where your helmet can potentially absorb frag but even then…. With 1-1/2” to 4 inches infront of your body, you can still get your head all the way to the ground. It’s a strange argument against chest rigs. I have a split rig, or I run LBE with slick plates, so getting low hasn’t been a concern to begin with, but I agree. I just don’t think it’s really an issue for those with a typical chest rig or two rows of mags/equipment infront of them.

Sorry, but our prone profile while shooting was less than HALF of what’s shown at 11:12 . My era was instructed by folks influenced by Vietnam. I recall being taught that the #1 fatal wound during direct contact action was “canoe head” (a round ripping across the top of the skull). We were taught to get down so low that your 20-ROUND magazine was resting on the deck and the stock was darn near on the top of your shoulder. Furthermore, our nose was down on the charging handle. When the 30-rd mags started to become common, many stuck with the 20-rounders as long as possible. Now there may be very different philosophical and tactical considerations between Grunt Proof’s sand box-era model and the jungle warfare model of my era. Would be interesting for someone with more knowledge to compare / contrast the two.

I think I will add some 3 to 5 second rushes in my workout routine as soon as this Easter dinner settles.

Well said ,All these Internet operators think they are going hug the ground. We found prone to be difficult mountain grade

Hay you still have to be able to low-crawl. I was a Grunt too. There are times you are behind cover and you need to be kept low. You can’t hit anything when running or even moving. Or at least not shooting well. Yes, you avoid danger areas, but sometimes you have to move in the open where this no cover or concealment. I was in when we still used the old LBE. I kept my canteens in the rear and my ammo pouches on the side, because it was uncomfortable to have anything on my front. I was in Desert Storm.

I love this channel I wish I could have my gear out there and training with ya.

Vietnam Era we got LC-1, flak vest, accessories. I still have my LC-1 ready to go with 20 rd magazines. Proper camo and reading a terrain helps. 11B, 19D.

Even from the perspective of a gamer I can say that I LOVE when my enemy decides to just go prone, instead of fighting. It makes the enemy a stationary target, like a firing range, and gives me sweet time to aim for as long as I need.

Only ever heard this argument about double & tripled stacked chest mags

"Tax Payer Funded Vacation to Get Shot At" LOL well said!

Spent quite a while in the infantry, and virtually zero time in the prone in the open. Most of the time spent in cover was actually at a very awkward crouch behind something too low to kneel behind and find cover while also too high to lie prone behind and still engage the enemy.

Just get a split rig if you're that concerned. They're also good for airing out your rig when get sweaty, easier to put on and off, etc

Great info. I see some links to your gear but not all the clothing you wear. Looking for some Grunt Proof recommended stuff.

I like my chest rigs because they don't rely on hook and pile to hold it onto my body, yes they have their hindrances like how they add a lot of extra weight to the front of your body and they slosh around while running but I believe it's a fair option for when you don't feel the need to use plates or don't have plates. I also recognize the benefits of a plate carrier such as added protection and the real estate that comes with the surface area and after I find a carrier that doesn't rely on a Velcro cummerbund or if I can find or manufacture a cummerbund replacement that will allow me to use the Velcro less I will definitely be using my plate carrier more often.

While I generally agree, the biggest problem (in my personal experience) was accessing and reloading a mag while in the prone. It's slower and clunky and usually requires you to roll somewhat onto your side to do it.

“2” can make or break most men.” DS Long 2001

I like the logic, its solid. I'll probably keep my stuff on my side and belt because I think its comfy, but I think I might move some of my mags further forward on my vest. Right now I'm split 3 on my belt on my right side(lefty shooter) and 3 on my vest right side. Admin pouch on the chest and a pair of tourniquets on either side of the ITOV flap. IFAK is a double ended tube on my back, reachable from either side. I think based on this I'm going to move the vest mags forward where the right tourniquet is, maybe across the right side of the flap, and move that beside the admin pouch. I have very little on my vest these days. Just don't need much as public affairs. On my belt I have the three mags, small buttpouch for a little extra storage, a dump pouch that is becoming an excellent lens pouch, and an extra tourniquet. Afghanistan I was dropping my armor so on often on KLEs it really left me feeling pretty naked. I don't see that need changing if shit sent me somewhere nasty again. Always been a fan of Alice gear belt and suspenders setup, I see my setup as an evolution on that. One thing I've struggled with is where to put water. I can't stand waterbladders, they just end up leaking. I'd love a flask like canteen I can fit on my side with a drinking hose.

Thank you!

I was wearing a rack chest rig over OTV in Iraq in 04. Yes you can go prone just fine. Wearing everything on a belt doesn’t work with full coverage body armor, which is a necessity any wear stuff blows up, and makes running/climbing harder.

Lana, Lana, Lana,….. WHAT! Danger Zone…..

Good info. I’ve never been LEO, nor have I served. But I will if I have to. At 56 years old I still would. That said, I did join a group last year and it was short lived. But OMG the bickering on rigs. Lol. One thing I truly learned is there’s a lot of scenarios when you’re thinking Minutemen vs soldiers with logistics and all the things a radio call away. Some guys were running as little as four mags but complaining I was running 14 😳. I admit I don’t know what I’m doing, but I was thinking if you’re gone for days and no one is bringing supplies…. Two on the belt, 8 around the chest and the rest on my back and one in rifle. I guess it’s all according to the mission. But I actually felt the double stacks in front aids my prone shooting. As a long time hunter I’d go a long way to stay out of the open. And deer ain’t shooting back. What is your thoughts on a Minuteman load out? My thoughts were I can always scale down for a specific mission. But SHTF….

I took a rifle class with a mayflower gen4 chest rig and a ruck and was able to go prone no problem. I also am out of shape. It was uncomfortable but doable. After the class I made the decision to build out a LBE molle with a split front. Still a chest rig but way more capable for prone and holds a lot more.

I kept an extra mag pouch on my hip just so I would have something a little easier to reach when proned out around or up against low cover and found it pretty useful. Most of the time though, mags out of the chest rig worked just fine.

The best 3 to 5 second rush I saw belongs to my old buddy Spc Gunn (RIP bud). He was yelling, "I'm up, he sees me, he's shooting, he's missing me, I'm down." It was absolutely hilarious.

In the early 1980's the Alice Gear was painful when you hit the prone position. 👍

I have 2 separate rigs and have since my 1st deployment- one is a chest rig for urban/assault/vehicle work, and one is more of an H-harness set up for recce style missions. The former is fitted to armor and the latter fitted sans armor. Has nothing to do with “getting low” and everything to do with comfort while crawling for prolonged periods or laying in a hide sight for hours and hours. Bottom line is it’s personal preference and people shouldn’t let someone on the internet dictate personal preference to them.

You get low because that’s all you got while you try to gain fire superiority before you break contact out of the danger area .

Hundreds of years fought in belts and chestrigs. Suddenly in the past twenty years you cant fight unless youre in the thinnest lightest smalles possible armor and plate carrier possible. 2-3" of you being on/off the ground is a negligible amount at 100-500 yards and beyond.

Trolls, please stay in the basement and log off.

Ahh, the "Shoot Somebody" position. I'm up, they see me, I'm down...

This all is correct only if we are talking about an enemy armed with small arms. But who will you shoot at when you come under artillery or mortar fire? And it doesn't matter if it's an open space or a shrubbery. Especially on the type of hard and rocky ground that you have under your feet. Shards, pieces of stone and wood will fly five inches and even lower. Armor, vest and magazines on the chest will take two or three inches only at the point of contact with ground but, the shoulders will be pretty high. In addition, running under mortar fire is another quest. Again, I'm talking about a certain type of warfare and a certain experience

After hitting the ground a dozen times you will be breathing so hard you can't hit an elephant lol.

Good stuff. I need to watch you more.

Can’t get prone in a chest rig… bro hold my beer, watch this!

Great vid. The best part of comments is when the. High Speed, Low Drag, Space Shuttle Door Gunners SHOW UP. Carry on..